US Says Saudi Prince Approved Journalist Khashoggi Killing (bbc.com) 151
A US intelligence report has found that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman approved the murder of exiled journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018. BBC: The declassified report released by the Biden administration says the prince approved a plan to either capture or kill the US-based Saudi exile. It is the first time America has publicly named the crown prince, who denies ordering the death. Khashoggi was murdered while visiting the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. He had been known for his criticism of the Saudi authorities. "We assess that Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman approved an operation in Istanbul, Turkey to capture or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi," the report by the office of the US director of national intelligence says. From our earlier coverage of Khashoggi:
Silicon Valley's Saudi Arabia Problem (2018)
Uber CEO Calls Saudi Murder of Khashoggi 'a Mistake', Scrambles To Backtrack (2019)
Amazon Boss Jeff Bezos' Phone 'Hacked By Saudi Crown Prince' (2020)
UN Calls For Investigation Into Saudi Crown Prince's Alleged Involvement in Bezos Phone Hack (2020).
Silicon Valley's Saudi Arabia Problem (2018)
Uber CEO Calls Saudi Murder of Khashoggi 'a Mistake', Scrambles To Backtrack (2019)
Amazon Boss Jeff Bezos' Phone 'Hacked By Saudi Crown Prince' (2020)
UN Calls For Investigation Into Saudi Crown Prince's Alleged Involvement in Bezos Phone Hack (2020).
Mohammed Bone Saw? (Score:3)
Call me shocked!
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How many bone saws would a bone sawer saw if the sawer could saw saws?
MBS wouldn't give you the funny mod either.
https://www.theatlantic.com/id... [theatlantic.com] says a lot about the de facto state of the American Constitution. Maybe this story would have fit under Trump Amendment 5? If only there had been any attempt to hold MBS to account under any normal law system?
So did you hear the one about the GQP worshiping the Golden Calf?
And how about the Munchkin visiting MBS around January 6th seeking a few billion bucks of c
Re:Hey everyone! (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly Trump had nothing to do with the act itself, other than he and previous Administrations have emboldened the Crown Prince to act with impunity. It's clear, at least publicly, Biden is prepared to actual put some pressure on Saudi Arabia by insisting on talking directly with the King. Whether that's the actual strategy, or just a bit of crowd pleasing to the public and to Congress (where there was strong bipartisan condemnation over the murder) is something that will have to be seen. MBS has used his power to crush any opposition even in the Royal Family, to the point where it might be impossible to remove him at this point.
The Saudi-US alliance has endured plenty of low points because of Saudi Arabia's key geopolitical importance, and I can't imagine that changing under Biden.
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The Saudi-US alliance has endured plenty of low points because of Saudi Arabia's key geopolitical importance
America is now self-sufficient in oil, there is a worldwide glut, and developed countries are transitioning to EVs.
Saudi Arabia's geopolitical importance is fading.
Re:Hey everyone! (Score:5, Insightful)
The Saudi-US alliance has endured plenty of low points because of Saudi Arabia's key geopolitical importance
America is now self-sufficient in oil, there is a worldwide glut, and developed countries are transitioning to EVs.
Saudi Arabia's geopolitical importance is fading.
Saudi Arabia's main usefulness now is as a regional proxy (pawn?) against Iran. That likely won't change even if the US returns to some semblance of the previous JCPA.
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That doesnt mean the US isnt self sufficient.
It isn't. We lack the domestic capacity to reach current demand.
That does not mean we *couldn't* be self sufficient, if we so chose.
Our net imports are pretty small at this point, and even if we didn't make up the shortfall that would be imposed by stopping all exports and imports, the impact would barely be noticeable in the short term.
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We're more short on refinery capacity than we are in production of crude.
Stuck (Score:3)
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Biden is ordering strikes in Syria. That didn't take long.
Of course he did (Score:3)
It wasn't (Score:5, Insightful)
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No they won't.
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It's not Saudi soil, nor is it considered as such. They have special permissions enshrined in treaty for the use of that soil, but the soil is the sovereign territory of Turkey.
This goes for embassies as well, contrary to popular belief. (They are not sovereign territory of the guest nation)
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Uh, no. American. in TURKEY. rtfa. or at least the headline.
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on Saudi soil.
Na, man. They murdered his ass in Turkey.
Re:It wasn't (Score:4, Interesting)
> but having the US Government say he did has enormous political implications.
So the US will stop providing military, financial, and intelligence support for the Saudi genocide in Yemen?
Let's hope so, despite the infinitesimally-small odds.
Re:It wasn't (Score:5, Interesting)
The US supports Saudi Arabia because the US' strategy is to support 2nd-tier regional powers to counterbalance the growth of the most powerful regional power and in so doing ensure that no country ever reaches a level that could interfere with the US' interests. If the Saudi's lost military and economic power which is bolstered by the US, they'd retreat in strength and Iran, the strongest Middle Eastern power, would fill the vacuum and grow stronger.
Unfortunately Mohammad bin Salman (MBS) is a hothead and young and not quite as experienced; he wasn't the one being groomed (his cousin Muhammad bin Nayef was), but MbN was ousted and it caused some dissension within the Saudi royal ranks. Hence when MBS came to power, there was a huge purge to consolidate control.
MBS goes his own path, overplays his hand, and over-estimates the strength of his position; hence the Yemen situation but also not being as confrontational to Iran as the US would like. So this isn't meant to target Saudi Arabia; the report could have said something like "the highest levels of the Saudi government" but instead it named MBS, that's for a reason. This naming of him as approving the murder of a prominent journalist in exile in the US reduces his options to do business with US companies; Saudi Arabia is already hurting economically from the oil price drop. So this puts the screws on him, and allows the US to push him to be a tool to put more pressure on Iran. it also gives Biden plenty of credence to cancel the $8B weapons deal that finished right before Trump took office, because he has the political power to do so. So it's all pressure tactics on a guy who only knows how to respond to direct slaps in the face.
I doubt Yemen will come into play here, but they may try to push for that too.
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Thoughtful and insightful analysis, notwithstanding the empty Subject. Apparently you already have several favorable mods, but the comment still shows as unmoderated. Eh?
Re:It wasn't (Score:4, Insightful)
The US supports Saudi Arabia because the US' strategy is to support 2nd-tier regional powers to counterbalance the growth of the most powerful regional power and in so doing ensure that no country ever reaches a level that could interfere with the US' interests.
That certainly sounds compelling but Iran does not have the most powerful military in the region
https://www.forbes.com/sites/d... [forbes.com] . Going by your logic we'd be much more concerned by Turkey or Egypt. Furthermore, while the Saudi's certainly have a smaller military than Iran the Saudi military is much better funded.
The US backing the Saudi's goes back to well before the Iranians had a meaningful military with Roosevelt's historic visit to Saudi Arabia. After the Iranian revolution tore down the US installed government in Iran and installed a very anti-American / anti-Western government we took advantage of the Sunni / Shia divide in the Middle East and capitalized on our already strong ties with the Saudi's to help limit Iranian influence.
In other words, if Iran was a friendly government it wouldn't matter at all how big their military is (just like it doesn't with Egypt or the Turks). It isn't though and that's why we try to limit their influence.
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POwer comes in many forms. Turkey's military is more powerful, but their influence is limited to Turkey because despite their current administration they are a secular nation and they are Turkish by ethnicity.
That's not true at all, if you read my link you'd have seen they are quite involved in the region (and they don't even mention recent actions in Syria and Libya). Furthermore, they've always been seen as a Muslim country even when run by secularists as the vast majority of their population is Muslim.
Iran also sits on the Strait of Hormuz, where about 40% of global oil production transits daily
And Egypt (which I also mentioned but you conveniently decided to ignore) could shut down the Suez canal in a moment and both Turkey and Egypt's air forces can operate throughout the region. There's not much Iran can do that those two or many of the other countries in the region can't in terms of shutting down shipping.
I should also mention that if some one (say some one like me) mentions the Shia / Sunni historic divide they probably know what it is and don't need you to explain it.
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I should also mention that if some one (say some one like me) mentions the Shia / Sunni historic divide they probably know what it is and don't need you to explain it.
Should also mention that if someone who is not you (say, some one like me) and doesn't know about the Shia/Sunni historic divide having it explained is a huge help in understanding your comments about it.
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It's funny how rage blinds us...
So you went into a conversation about the Middle East talking as if you are knowledgeable on the subject and you didnt even know what one of the most fundamental divides in the region is? Then, after researching my reference to it you go on to explain it to me?
No. PinkyGigglebrain (the poster you're responding to and ranting at) merely pointed out that he found the description of the religious split within the region by Whateverthisis (the poster you originally responded to) useful in understanding the debate, although I'd concede it might have been an open minded hypothetical on behalf on someone more ignorant than him
What the hell are you even doing in this conversation?
Learning? Pointing out that other people beside you are following the thread i.e. the replies are not all about yo
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So the US will stop providing military, financial, and intelligence support for the Saudi genocide in Yemen?
Mostly, we already have. The US has pulled way back from the debacle in Yemen. It isn't just that the war was stupid from the outset, but also that the Saudis have prosecuted it with astounding incompetence.
Side note: Can we please stop using the word "genocide" to mean "actions by people I don't like"? The Holocaust was a genocide. The proxy war against the Houthis is not.
Re: It wasn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we please stop pretending that the Holocaust was the only genocide?
Deliberately destroying infrastructure and then blocking food, building supplies, and medicine is a broadside deadly attack on an entire population. Pretty much falls into the definition of genocide. Feel free to come up with some technical detail that doesn't meet your lofty definitional bar, but there isn't a single aid worker that I know of who has been there (and I know a few) that has not observed a deliberate tactic of resource strangulation as a weapon of war.
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It did (Score:2)
If you want it to stay that way then you need to make sure Biden (or Harris if he's dead) wins in 2024. Trump will more than likely run then (again, assuming he's alive) and will roll things back (I'm fairly sure the Saudi/Yemen war isn't going away in 4 years no matter what Biden does).
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LOL found the anti-Saudi moderator. Nobody wants to talk about Iran's role in Yemen.
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but having the US Government say he did has enormous political implications.
I agree. But I would also say that if the US doesn't do anything about it, it will send a dangerous message. The logical next step would be for the US to put sanctions on MBS (banned to travel to the US, assets freeze, etc.). And yes reconsider arms deals with Saudi Arabia.
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We'll have to see how the Saudis respond. There really doesn't appear to be anyone else to take MBS's place, and whatever his flaws (ruthless impetuousness being his most marked trait), he has done an extraordinarily skillful job of eliminating anyone in his family that might represent a threat to him. I think the removal of MBS is unlikely, but making it clear to him that the US is the senior partner in the alliance, and the President ultimately holds a lot more cards than MBS, may go some distance to tami
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What I meant is that if the US intelligence openly report that MBS contracted a murder, and the US doesn't do anything about it, the US will be perceived as tolerating murders, and weak.
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Was this ever even in question?
Sure, in extent of approving, not ordering.
Trump was weak on foreign policy (Score:5, Informative)
When I talk to hard-line Republicans, they claim to want leadership that is strong on foreign affairs. But Trump was incredibly weak in dealings with other countries:
There are 2 countries Trump was tough on:
I actually agree with some of his actions above. But when I talk to hard-line Republicans, this seems to be the opposite of what they want. I bet that if I told them that Hillary Clinton did each of these things, they would tell me how awful it was. This is what happens when you elect a President who owes hundreds of millions of dollars to foreign banks [forbes.com]. He is owned by many of these countries, so he bows down to them instead of sticking to his "America First" policy.
Trump's strategy enabled the Abraham Accords (Score:2)
Trump knew MBS was responsible. Everyone knew MBS was responsible.
Not publicly criticizing MBS for the killing gave Trump something to hold over the Saudi leader. This enabled the Trump admin to get many a Muslim nation to sign diplomatic and trade deals with Israel. The Abraham Accords could not have happened unless Saudi Arabia went along with it.
Hypocrisy (Score:3)
There's an old saying: The pen is mightier than the sword.
In terms of domestic 'harmony' it's never been more true. One only has to look at the various forms of media control across the world, especially the direct control in authoritarian countries or the targets and levels of bribery in corrupt countries. Governments have long 'manipulated' the media both in order to maintain or enhance themselves and their power, and to undermine other governments or change them to be more to their ideological liking.
So, given this state of affairs, is the state sanctioned murder of a journalist really any different to the state sanctioned murder [wikipedia.org] of a military officer or politician?
Both are done in order to 'preserve' a way of life, or the status quo. Both are extrajudicial killings of foreign nationals. Sure one can say that one was of a civilian while the other military but, even if we ignore the non-military 'collateral damage', when no state of war exists between the states involved murder is still murder.
For the record, I do not support or condone either murder, but neither do I consider this post to be a (completely) false equivalence. If the US wants to be a moral authority, perhaps it should examine its own actions, and their 'justifications', under the same light...
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Re:And somehow... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: And somehow... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Oh BS. Even Republicans in Congress were horrified and pissed off, and didn't buy Trump's attempts to exonerate MBS. Now that they'll have a full intelligence report detailing MBS's involvement, it gives Congress and the Administration both the power to apply pressure to the Kingdom. No one blames Trump for Khashoggi's murder. It's not like MBS asked Trump for permission, and even Trump's muted response indicated the Administration was taken off guard by this vile act. Trump shares no more blame for MBS's a
Re: And somehow... (Score:5, Informative)
Saudi Arabia actively promoted Wahabism in the region, likely as a means of counteracting Iran's influence, but with no thought as to how radicalizing groups throughout the region would create blowback.
Saudi-Arabia promoting Wabhabism [wikipedia.org] (one of the most backwards and extreme sects of Islam) is not purely a means of counteracting Iran. The royal family and the Wahhabi sect have had an alliance [wikipedia.org], including intermarriage for more than two centuries. They were a critical part of the current royal family's rise to national power [pbs.org]. Thus, they're more than just a means of counteracting Iran's influence - they're a part of Saudi-Arabia's very fabric. Saudi-Arabia might look extremist - but that's because they are.
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However, this claim of SA promoting Wahhabism, as a means to counter Iran? That's complete fucking nonsense.
The Saudi royal family are Wahhabists. They have been, literally, since the first of the House of Saud, Muhammad bin Saud.
As the person who already replied to you said- Saudi-Arabia might look extremist - but that's because they are.
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Even if your comment were true, it still wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that there was an issue with Trump openly parroting some literally eye-rolling horse shit.
"The Administration refuses to comment on our allies engaging in blatant human rights abuses" would have been acceptable to me.
Parroting the Saudi propaganda? No. Fuck that.
So this was not a case of OMB.
But what you're doing is a case of some fucking idiot defending anything he does, with zero regard
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Re:And somehow... (Score:5, Insightful)
A US President doesn't bow to foreign kings.
That is a lie [foreignpolicy.com].
You bow to a king if you're a subject of their monarchy. Obama clearly isn't a subject to the House of Saud, so there was no reason to do this.
You do know that in other cultures bowing has nothing being a subject, right? In Japan everyone bows. EVERYONE. Is everyone in Japan saying the person they are bowing to, their monarch?
I don't know about that but 1 thing I do know (Score:2)
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Sorry, didn't Trump bow to the Saudi king too. In Trump's case, he was bowing as the king put a necklace/medal/whatever around his neck, while in Obama's it was sort of handshake/headbob. Basically, in both cases, it looks like whoever was in charge of protocol arranged for a bow with plausible deniability (only semi-plausable really). Previous presidents have also bowed to emperors and kings. It's just a courtesy thing, and people really should relax about it.
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Right, Obama "bowing" to the Saudi king is a huge problem for you but Trump denying MBS had anything to do with this politically motivated murder when even his own party and our country's allies were all fairly certain he did, isn't.
That's some truly impressive mental acrobatics you're doing there.
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Bowing in Japan (usually in a business context), is a completely different thing
Why is it that I find myself replying to your ignorance today. Like every stupid thing I read on Slashdot there is Arthur KBE.
Bowing in Japan is no different to bowing to a king. It is a sign of respect in both circumstances. The difference is subjects are forced to show that respect under threat of punishment. Showing respect doesn't make you a subject, it makes you not a horrible person.
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Re:And somehow... (Score:5, Insightful)
It was a show of respect... end of story. Why the right makes this such a big deal is truly amazing... right up there with a tan suit.
Now Trump was doing way more than bowing by parroting and publicly supporting the obvious false story that the leader of Saudi Arabia was not involved in the killing of Khashoggi. Now that is the sort of kowtowing and subservience and embracing falsehood that should be of concern.
And then there is Trump saluting a NK officer. What do you think of that? Even Kim thought that was absurd.
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Even Kim thought that was absurd.
To be fair, that's because Kim was confused why someone would salute one of his toy soldiers.
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It was a rather humiliating faux pas no matter how you slice it.
Who really cares what humiliates a fucking moron?
A sign of respect is too complicated of a social interaction for you to grasp- I get that.
Fortunately, usually, we elect President's who have more going on upstairs that you (And yes, I realize that's a bit ironic just coming out of the previous administration)
Eisenhower famously bowed to just about every fucking monarch on the planet.
I want you to go ahead and say you're embarrassed by Dwight D. Eisenhower.
And for any of you military dumbfucks who say
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> What about when Barak Hussein Obama bowed before King Saud?
That's completely different - he was the Chosen One.
cf. Nobel Peace Prize.
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Was it Obama who said he was "The Chosen One"?
President Trump: 'I am the chosen one' [bbc.com]
And granted, the following weren't Trump's words, but he eagerly retweeted them:
“President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world Jewish people in Israel love him... ...like he’s the King of Israel” Trump quoted Newsmax TV host Wayne Allyn Root saying on Newsmax.
“He keeps doing what he’s doing, he’s good for all of us. Good for Jews, good for blacks, good for gays. Good for everyone in America who wants a job,” Root said, also noting that "I happen to be Jewish by birth."
Trump promotes claim that he is ‘King of Israel’ as Jewish people tweet #DisloyalToTrump [usatoday.com]
Decrying the Democratic Party, Trump said on Tuesday “Where have they gone, where they’re defending these two people over the state of Israel? And I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge, or great disloyalty.”
Isn't it a little anti-semitic to tell American Jews they should be more 'loyal' to Israel?
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Probably due to his lack of reading intelligence reports.
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
https://www.axios.com/trump-do... [axios.com]
So either by apathy or incompetence.
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Which is a good thing.
Though in the future, I'd prefer Presidents just not trigger such a bombardment at all, that way we don't need to find out if they have the balls to see it through.
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I dunno about that. We were pretty much involved everywhere we still are now as when Obama took office. For some reason Trump didn't mind helping out the Saudis in Yemen. Not that we weren't already involved and already selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, but Trump just escalated things.
Which wars did Obama start? He did help some wars, but are you really upset that Libyans rose up and fought against Qaddafi, eventually killing him? Republicans like to point to the problems of a post-Qaddafi Libya, but thi
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What about when Barak Hussein Obama bowed before King Saud?
King Saud died when Barrak Obama was 8 years old.
Obama allegedly bowed to King Abdullah.
He also once bowed to Emperor Akihito of Japan.
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And G.W. Bush kissed Abdullah and held hands with him.
I'm not aware of what base he got to with Akihito.
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Everyone in the SAUDI family is a Saud. That's a title, BTW
Saud is a name.
Abdullah's full name was "Abdullah bin Saud". In Arabic "bin" means "son of". His dad's name was Saud.
The current king (Abdullah's brother) is also a son of Saud, so his name is "Salman bin Saud".
Salman's son is the crown prince. His name is "Mohammad bin Salman". He is often referred to as MBS.
MBS ordered the murder of Khashoggi.
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The royal family of Saudi Arabia is the House of Saud, originating from Muhammed bin Saud.
King Saud's full name was Saud bin Abdulaziz Al Saud. He was called King Saud, because his first name was Saud.
That's a title, BTW, if you don't speak Arabic.
Oh come on, you don't either you pathetic twerp.
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What about when Barak Hussein Obama bowed before King Saud?
It always amuses me the things that US Conservatives consider to be massive scandals.
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Maybe we can bring Monica back to do some more blow-jobs?
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At least he didn't fondle the glowing orb like the former alleged president. I presume you had a point with bringing up Obama's middle name? What is the point, precisely? If you had a middle name, does it indicate anything specific about you other than your parents gave it to you?
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There's about over a decade of posts on the internet of people emphasizing Obama's middle name and calling him a Muslim and it's pretty clear that they wanted to play on the name of a certain Iraqi dictator. Get more subtle dog whistles or stop pretending you're innocently using his full name.
It's as ridiculous as if people had constantly referred to Reagan as "Wilson" in a feeble attempt to associate him with Woodrow Wilson.
Now emphasizing the "John" in Donald John Trump seems somewhat fitting since "john
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First line in the summary: "in 2018"
Yeah. Happened on his watch. So our response to the incident sits quite squarely on his shoulders.
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It's irrelevant because Saudi Arabia isn't under US sovereignty anyway. When US gets involved in internal affairs of middle-eastern countries the outcome will always be sub-optimal for locals. That's because due to lack of formal sovereignty US also lacks formal responsibility to people there for outcomes of their random meddling: classical conflict of interest. And it's true irrespective of one's opinion on Khashoggi or his death.
Jamal Khashoggi was a US resident and a reporter for a US newspaper. He was lured from the US to Saudi Arabia for the purposes of being murdered.
I'd say the US very much does have a legitimate interest in investigating his death.
And Trump does bear some responsibility. Both because MBS probably had good reason to expect he could order the killing with little consequence (as opposed to a typical US administration). But also because the US had intelligence that a plot existed but failed to warn Khashoggi [wikipedia.org].
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He was lured from the US to Saudi Arabia for the purposes of being murdered.
Nitpick: He was lured to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where he was murdered. He was not murdered in Saudi Arabia.
Re:Re-nitpick. (Score:4, Insightful)
Lol. The US thinks everything is its business. That's why Canada is currently holding a Chinese citizen the US wants to put on trial for lying to a Brit in Hong Kong.
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I know that what the Saudis did was bad, but how should the US have responded? Airstrikes? Sanctions? A public statement of disapproval?
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I know that what the Saudis did was bad, but how should the US have responded? Airstrikes? Sanctions? A public statement of disapproval?
There were a lot of options. But covering it up and defending MBS wasn't one of them.
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There were a lot of options.
Name one.
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There were a lot of options.
Name one.
Trump could have bragged [cnn.com]
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"
And told MBS he was hiding like a coward.
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The torture and assassination of a journalist wasn't his fault. But American response, or rather lack of response, absolutely was his fault.
Re:What phone did he use? (Score:5, Informative)
Unless you are finally going to leave a comment worth reading for the first time, why are you on Slashdot?
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Unless you are here to tell us he used Google Docs or an app to authorize the killing, why is this political junk news on Slashdot?
I'm not sure it's something I want on Slashdot either, but this is geo-political, not merely 'political,' and far from 'junk.'
I always interpreted 'news for nerds, stuff that matters' as a cheeky way of saying news that is specifically for nerds IS stuff that matters, back before nerd/geek culture had ascended.
But to reiterate, this is very important news even if I don't really want it here either.
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Just means that geeks/nerds/journalists can be suckered into going to another country where they will be killed. Lesson we all can understand. So everyone, stay home, stay safe.
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I assume you know you don't *have* to read and comment on every story, so your problem is apparently with other people doing so.
Re:What phone did he use? (Score:4, Insightful)
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And yes, we will be bringing winter coats this time.
Doesn't really matter if you have winter coats. Russia has nuclear ICBMs. That means nuclear weapons in Washington, and no one is left to order the fight to continue.
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Here it starts, just as predicted. MBS is a reformer, can't have that.
I'm sorry but, even without the opinion of the intelligence community on this, the publicly available facts are extremely damning. This was clearly a high level operation. For starters, he was lured into the consulate on false pretenses to be murdered. This could not have happened without the support of the Saudi Consul General to Turkey. There are very few people who could have ordered that. The doctor who cut up Ksashoggi was the head of the Saudi scientific council of forensics and also a colonel. 7 of t
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So in between making up lies about me while denying centuries old mathematics [slashdot.org] you're now making up weird... conspiracies? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised... and I'm not!
They already started bombing Syria again. Coming soon: Venezuela and quite possibly Russia. It's a short distance between NATO territory in Estonia and Moscow. And yes, we will be bringing winter coats this time.
GrAnDpA bIdEn WiLl InVaDe MoScOw
sure thing bud.