Could Plastic Roads Make for a Smoother Ride? (bbc.com) 97
From lower carbon emissions to fewer potholes, there are a number of benefits to building a layer of plastic into roads. From a report: On a road into New Delhi, countless cars a day speed over tonnes of plastic bags, bottle tops and discarded polystyrene cups. In a single kilometre, a driver covers one tonne of plastic waste. But far from being an unpleasant journey through a sea of litter, this road is smooth and well-maintained -- in fact the plastic that each driver passes over isn't visible to the naked eye. It is simply a part of the road. This road, stretching from New Delhi to nearby Meerut, was laid using a system developed by Rajagopalan Vasudevan, a professor of chemistry at the Thiagarajar College of Engineering in India, which replaces 10% of a road's bitumen with repurposed plastic waste.
India has been leading the world in experimenting with plastic-tar roads since the early 2000s. But a growing number of countries are beginning to follow suit. From Ghana to the Netherlands, building plastic into roads and pathways is helping to save carbon emissions, keep plastic from the oceans and landfill, and improve the life-expectancy of the average road. By 2040, there is set to be 1.3 billion tonnes of plastic in the environment globally. India alone already generates more than 3.3 million tonnes of plastic a year -- which was one of the motivators behind Vasudevan's system for incorporating waste into roads. It has the benefit of being a very simple process, requiring little high-tech machinery. First, the shredded plastic waste is scattered onto an aggregate of crushed stones and sand before being heated to about 170C -- hot enough to melt the waste. The melted plastics then coat the aggregate in a thin layer. Then heated bitumen is added on top, which helps to solidify the aggregate, and the mixture is complete. Many different types of plastics can be added to the mix: carrier bags, disposable cups, hard-to-recycle multi-layer films and polyethylene and polypropylene foams have all found their way into India's roads, and they don't have to be sorted or cleaned before shredding.
India has been leading the world in experimenting with plastic-tar roads since the early 2000s. But a growing number of countries are beginning to follow suit. From Ghana to the Netherlands, building plastic into roads and pathways is helping to save carbon emissions, keep plastic from the oceans and landfill, and improve the life-expectancy of the average road. By 2040, there is set to be 1.3 billion tonnes of plastic in the environment globally. India alone already generates more than 3.3 million tonnes of plastic a year -- which was one of the motivators behind Vasudevan's system for incorporating waste into roads. It has the benefit of being a very simple process, requiring little high-tech machinery. First, the shredded plastic waste is scattered onto an aggregate of crushed stones and sand before being heated to about 170C -- hot enough to melt the waste. The melted plastics then coat the aggregate in a thin layer. Then heated bitumen is added on top, which helps to solidify the aggregate, and the mixture is complete. Many different types of plastics can be added to the mix: carrier bags, disposable cups, hard-to-recycle multi-layer films and polyethylene and polypropylene foams have all found their way into India's roads, and they don't have to be sorted or cleaned before shredding.
Plastic freakin' roadways? (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly makes a lot more sense than the solar ones. But besides monitoring the longevity and grip characteristics, I'd also want ot make sure we'd not be grinding microplastics into the air, otherwise we'd just replace a few bottles sitting around with tons of tiny particles.
Re:Plastic freakin' roadways? (Score:5, Funny)
If we make the roads out of rubber, we can make the wheels out of concrete or even rocks, like in the Flintstones ("rotational mass" and "unsprung weight" are racist constructs). ;)
Not only microparticles (Score:5, Insightful)
All the additives in the plastics will slowly leach out into the enviroment with the process probably speeded up due to heating up within black bitumen in somewhere as hot as india plus vehicle tyres crushing it. Sure, it may happen in landfill anyway but this guarantees it will.
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That is currently what we get from tires. If you've ever lived next to a busy road, it's kind of disgusting.
Re:Plastic freakin' roadways? (Score:5, Informative)
from TFA:
First, the shredded plastic waste is scattered onto an aggregate of crushed stones and sand before being heated to about 170C -- hot enough to melt the waste. The melted plastics then coat the aggregate in a thin layer. Then heated bitumen is added on top, which helps to solidify the aggregate, and the mixture is complete.
The plastic ends up in a fused layer underneath the bitumen. Microplastic abrasion seems less likely than stuff leaching into the soil.
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Sounds similar to how used tires are already added to asphalt in many places.
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I don't see how that's any worse than the layer of bitumen, which is basically petroleum waste. You've already got a nice wide ribbon of toxic waste that somewhat leaches into the ground over time; plastic is probably less reactive and not significantly more toxic even once broken down.
IOW, by the time it's an asphalt road, worrying over plastic content is kind of silly. And we already melt plastic into structural chunks for use in curbs and the like.
I know old tires have been ground up and used in the surf
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My thoughts exactly. As long as there is friction, wear and tear, there will be fine particles dispersed in the air and water. There is no way around it. But now that we have this realization around micro plastics, there is an opportunity to try and think about better ways to construct roads, tires, brake pads, etc so that the impact to the environment (aka the place we human beings inhabit, live, drink, and breathe from) is lessened.
There's still a lot of 19th century thinking and technology that pervad
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Steel roads are the answer. Trams and trains.
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Environmental Impact? (Score:5, Informative)
We've been hearing about the importance of having less plastic in the environment. Plastic is getting everywhere and into everything. Wouldn't this process just make that problem worse over time?
What this really highlights is that plastic recycling is essentially a lie. We have all this post-consumer plastic, and nothing useful to do with it. The only real way to get rid of it is to incinerate it to break it down entirely (and generate power), but that also releases other chemicals, so there's no obvious best option.
Re: Environmental Impact? (Score:5, Interesting)
That is correct. I still remember this going through the news, a few months ago: That the dirty secret is, that plastics aren't actually recycled.
They always said "Recyclable" and not "Recycled" for that very reason.
It doesn't make economical sense.
Not only do do plastics become brittle and re-using the actual PET bottle doesn't work more than sevrn times. But those single-used ones that you are supposed to melt cost more to recycle than to make new ones from scratch. And they are inferior too. E.g. they need to have thicker walls to.compensate for the polymer chains being shorter, or they might burst.
The only reason plastic bottles have become a thing is because they are lighter and hence cheaper to transport anyway. In all other aspects, they are utter crap.
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The only reason plastic bottles have become a thing is because they are lighter and hence cheaper to transport anyway. In all other aspects, they are utter crap.
With plastic bottles, you don't get broken glass in every parking lot.
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Re: Environmental Impact? (Score:1)
With glass bottles you don't either.
With asshole citizens, no fines, no deposit system, and most of all, bad cleaning, you do.
For your curiosity, I recommend watching a few videos of Americans that came to Germany. The ones where you can see the pavement and where they talk about how clean everything is here.
Glass bottles are very popular here. So populae thar Coca-Cola started selling glass bottles in all sizes again.
Yet unless it's a party area on the morning after, you could walk barefoot here for years
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Economic sense I think should not always be the goal. Especially short term economics. Because in the long term the hesitation to spend any money on the problem combined with reluctance to discontinue use of plastics can lead to a long term economic disaster decades or centuries down the road (out of sight, out of mind). I think a lot of the concern about whether recycling, or other ecological programs, is economically viable can be a short sighted goal. This is often combined with a hidden or side goal
Plastic bottles are far safer than glass (Score:2)
Glass is also wasteful to return and energy-intensive to produce and recycle.
Re: Plastic bottles are far safer than glass (Score:1)
Energy is not the concern. Unless you think we'll use up the sun before we manage to move to a different one.
And yes, bringing them back is a cost factor. But so is making new plastic, polliting the environment, cleaning the environment, etc.
Around here we've got delivery services. They roll the cases of glass bottles right into your kitchen if you want, and take back the old bottles while they are there, at no extra cost.. Making the costs so minimal that the prices they offer over what the bottles cost at
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What this really highlights is that plastic recycling is essentially a lie.
No. It highlights that you didn't know what recycling means. Hint: It does not mean that a plastic bottle turns into another plastic bottle. Recycled plastics have always been used for different purposes (including a long history of being used in roads, which have had plastic in various forms in them for the best part of 60 years now).
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What this really highlights is that plastic recycling is essentially a lie.
No. It highlights that you didn't know what recycling means. Hint: It does not mean that a plastic bottle turns into another plastic bottle.
True recycling requires it to be same quality as the original otherwise it is downcycling and you eventually still reach the end of life. Roads might be an acceptable final end of life though as they are relatively permanent and even if they need to be disposed of you have trapped the carbon where it doesn't hurt the environment.
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Oh, then it's pretty much hopeless. Even recycled paper is usually factored in with new paper because it is lower grade with each recycle.
Well, glass and metals are really really recyclable.
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Oh, then it's pretty much hopeless. Even recycled paper is usually factored in with new paper because it is lower grade with each recycle.
Well, glass and metals are really really recyclable.
Paper would qualify if you can continue to make the exact same product. If you recycle 50% recycled paper to create 50% recycled paper then you are still managing to maintain the same product. It does mean though that the other 50% is either not being recycled or you are creating more and more each year. The key is to not kick the can down the road or if you do then have a plan for it in the end. Even nuclear power has this problem. You need to have a plan for the external costs and end of life of a pr
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Sure. Let's have the plastics industry redefine "recycling" so they can pretend that they are doing it.
Because grinding up plastic stuff then melting it into a road surface is NOT recycling. By that definition, turning trees into paper is recycling.
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Sure. Let's have the plastics industry redefine "recycling" so they can pretend that they are doing it.
Sorry kiddo, the plastic industry isn't redefining anything. At no point in no industry anywhere in the world does "recycle" mean that a product needs to be turned back into itself. You may be confusing recycling and reusing, but it's a physical impossibility for us to recycle any material back into its original form except for maybe aluminium, but even then we can't recycle aluminium into its original grade either.
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Paper is recycled/downcycled into new paper many many times. It's not 100% lossless, but it's not an acyclic directed graph either. And Aluminum is not the only metal that is recycled.
Recycling implies a cycle where the end product goes back to the start of the process to be cycled through more than once.
Plastics lifecycle is a straight line one time deal, from oil to plastic to a form that can't possibly be reused by any known process and doesn't break down safely. That's not "recycling" in the traditio
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So all those reusable grocery bags that say they are made from plastic bottles are a lie?
If those reusable bags aren't considered recycling then most recycling isn't recycling. A lot of the aluminum will end up in other items than more cans. In fact the can that you sent to be recycled was probably partially a recycled aluminum auto part or recycled aluminum foil or recycled aluminum home appliance, etc.
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Of course that's recycling, but we were basically sold on a system that takes our waste plastic in on one end, and *mostly* recycles the plastic into other stuff. Maybe not new bottles or bags every single time, but we were taught that if we just sorted and cleaned the plastics well enough, the stuff we put in wouldn't have to be created again, more or less.
The oil industry KNEW that recycling as we were taught it didn't work, they just promoted it because it meant we wouldn't be as concerned about buying m
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Also recycling should also have a goal that the original products should be used less in the first place, especially if they're based upon non-renewable resources or which are ecologically harmful. But the message of recycling too often seems to be that it's ok to use lots and lots of plastics because there's a neighborhood recycling collector to get all that ugly trash out of your sight. The consumer may be mistakenly thinking that other people are taking care of things.
The real ecological solution would
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Recycling doesn't have a message. It's part of a message. The least important part. You may recall the two other R's in the common catchphrase. "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". At no point were people saying "Hey we recycle to just go nuts". The message has always been that there were other things to do before and then we recycle as a last resort.
I shudder to think what you were reading that you got a different message.
Reinvention until somebody uses it (Score:1, Troll)
This was invented and patented back in the 90s in the USA. It never happened because of the push for recycling AND a huge reduction in disposable plastic... which stopped short obviously because it continued until plastic waste was so bad we noticed it. Partial solutions only delay... Microplastics weren't even on the inventor's radar back then.
The roads will definitely longer which will save in some ways. But most the dust given off will still be RUBBER from the car tires.
BTW, proper burning of plastic DO
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We NEED to do many things but instead choose to ignore the unpleasant problems allowing others to continue and then we support them; indirectly adding to the problems. Complexity and distraction overwhelmed us before the internet did.
That is the sad reality; can't even point out simple stuff anymore. Proper burning is better than burring trash in even harder and expensive to process forms. If we decide road plastic is a problem later on..."down the road" it'll be a "concrete" problem or "set in stone"...
Burn it for energy (Score:2)
Seriously, not trolling. Even if you recycle it N times it'll still end up in the enviroment eventually. If you burn it instead of using oil, coal or gas you can recover some of the energy used in its manufacture plus its no longer an enviromental issue other than CO2 produced in its combustion (any other gases such as chlorine can be scrubbed) and hopefully the CO2 it does produce would simply replace that would have been created by burning raw fossil fuels.
Re:Environmental Impact? (Score:5, Interesting)
Post-consumer plastic makes good 3d printer filament.
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It's mostly a lie. Less than 9% of plastics are recycled. I've been consciously trying to reduce my plastic use because the sheer volume of plastic waste generated by a single supermarket trip was starting to freak me out.
Plastic is generally *physically* recyclable, but only #1 and #2 can be recycled profitably and so everything else ends up in a landfill. #1 and #2 are not recyclable if opaque pigments are added to them. I don't see any quick and perfect solution to this, but I think making virgin pl
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See this 2019 article from the Intercept: https://theintercept.com/2019/07/20/plastics-industry-plastic-recycling/ [theintercept.com]
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I mean, plastic in giant sheets is a lot better for the environment than lose plastic everywhere. Animals wouldn't eat it, etc.
Plastic isn't homogenous. This is being touted as a solution for films and certain varieties of plastics (AKA, the various recycling numbers) that are hard to deal with . Tons (literally) of plastic is actually recycled easily.
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1. Plastics aren't going away. Not anytime soon, maybe not ever. It's another genie we can't put back into the bottle (pun unintended). Plastics are too useful.
2. Roads aren't going away anytime soon either. They'll be with us until our civilzation completely collapses, because ground transportation isn't going away either.
Therefore if the stuff is just going to pile up, we may as well (re)use it in some way.
'Recycling', in the conve
Back on Plastic (Score:1)
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It's a complicated question, one that the people promoting "plastic roads" aren't always completely honest about. They'll say the road surface "contains no microplastics"; but nobody suggested the roads contain *primary* microplastics. The question is, does it eventually break down into secondary microplastics?
Another claim is that plastic roads don't contribute significantly more microplastics than a regular road. There may be something to that claim. A regular road generates lots of microplastics throug
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Wow--seldom do I see such a nice, well thought out, calm reply to a correction. You, sir, are a gentleman--or else a true lady.
Re: No (Score:2)
asphalt is plastic. it can be patched but I wish we would improve the technology to make the patches integrate better into the original material.
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And long hydrocarbon chains in polymer based plastics degrade in UV and they become brittle and crack.
It's going to be tough to build the perfect roads that are also cost effective when we keep looking at industrial waste as the only viable material.
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Cheese is too valuable. Turkey fat is industrial waste and businesses pay to haul it away.
Super-effective underlay (Score:5, Funny)
Line the entire roadbed with those plastic rings that hold six packs together. Have you ever tried to tear those by hand? Good luck road cracks trying to break apart that base!
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Another idea:
Nothing to do with plastic, but I know a 2 block long street section in a town nearby, entirely brick with sand set. Nothing over it, just riprap base underneath. They re-sand and repack once in a while. No potholes. Swells and dips, yes. but no potholes. Only section of miles upon miles of street they don't have to do lengthy repairs to as long as it's maintained.
Smoother ride? Maybe. (Score:2)
Until we quit making so much... (Score:1, Interesting)
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Nuclear waste is by no means comparable in volume to plastic waste in any industrial society, so you're remark is off-topic trolling intended to sucker people like me.
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the US DOE green-lighted an Oklahoma company testing fuel made from spent nuclear fuel
What? They finally allowed it? About frelling time, they've been blocking every attempt for the last 30 years.
Road tar is easy to recycle (Score:2)
If plastic doesn't complicate the process I am for it, but I feeling this might not be the case.
The only solution I see to our oil addition (which plastic is a very large part of) is to become less materialistic and stop buying junk that will thrown away in a year or two.
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Not completely. The lighter constituents of asphalt evaporate, that's why it shrinks and cracks. You need to replace them when resurfacing.
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I remember the stench of the diaper pail while they waited to be washed . . .
There already is plastic in roads (Score:5, Informative)
Plastic gets mixed into bitumen while it's blown to develop a specific set of carefully tuned properties. The amount and type of plastic mixed in not only determines the smoothness but also how well it wears, how well it weathers, and how it reacts with rubber in various conditions.
The roads used in different countries (or even different areas of the same country) all have various plastics in them to define the required properties. In many cases that even comes from recycled sources.
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Prior to the popularization of steel belted radials tires used to be frequently melted into the bitumen. I don't think they can do that any more.
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In fact, the smoothest road I've ever been on was made of steel, and the vehicle I was in had solid steel tires. That's kind of the opposite of rubber and plastic, right? Anyway, it was a bullet train. Even acceleration and deceleration were very smooth, and it banked into the turns like an airplane.
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You've obviously never seen pictures of how crowded trains in india are. Not every country is like america where the public in public transport is a dirty word outside of NYC and a few other places.
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asphalt recycling (Score:3)
So does anyone know where micro plastics come from (Score:1)
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Microplastics are a vector to lawsuit wealth, as will be the inevitable rain runoff of this over years.
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If I recall correctly, micro plastics primarily come from synthetic cloth.
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1 Kg/day from laundry from 100,000 people (Score:1)
I think most of it comes from the washer, not the dryer.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2... [which.co.uk]
Would be good to have a filter in the washer to catch those microplastics.
not in Iowa! (Score:3)
Snow plows would obliterate plastic roads.
And I can't help but wonder how these roads work out in anything but perfect weather. I know how treacherous new asphalt becomes when it rains, because of how the watr beads up on it instead of absorbing, which sounds exactly like what plastic will do.
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The same way they would obliterate asphalt roads.
Re:not in Iowa! (Score:4, Informative)
And that they do!
In the northern states, it's concrete FTW
Asphalt's great for about 3 years, and then it starts to get potholes. And a fill only lasts a few months. Come springtime, they open up like the gates of hell and swallow fill like pouring sand down a gopher hole, while trying to rip your tires off the rims.
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I guess you didn't RTFA
First they put down a layer of crushed aggregate. This is already done in Iowa and everywhere else.
Then they put down the plastic and melt it into a thin layer.
Then they put down a layer of asphalt. This is already done in Iowa and everywhere else.
The plows will never get to the plastic. The only difference between this and a traditional asphalt road is the layer of plastic, which is supposed to add flexibility and stability to the road. More stability means the road will last longer.
what about the autobahn level of roads? (Score:2)
what about the autobahn level of roads?
also some roads need to be able handle 70-80+ MPH and lots of trucks
Pyrolisis, instead of deffered pollution (Score:2)
Eventually the roads will erode, releasing the plastics as microplastics. Just kicking the can down the road (so to speak).
Alternatives for plastics don't look good, but a few look better.
1. Used plastic -> recycle to new plastic. Result: $$$ for inferior plastic. Uneconomical so showstopper.
2. Used plastic -> burn as fuel. Result: $ with some nasty air pollutants. Somewhat economical from energy production, but awful health costs, so long term uneconomical.
3. Used plastic -> bury in landfill.
Actually a 10% plastic road (Score:2)
Headlines these days. I guess it is now lies, damned lies and then headlines...
Distributed landfill (Score:2)
This idea claims to divert plastic from landfill but isn't laying it on the ground in a road simply a distributed landfill?
All the problems of plastic microparticles, breakdown and leaching by water, etc - only delayed a couple of decades until the road surface falls apart.?
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I also had this concern. Sounds like the plastic is bound to the bitumen. It'll be there until energy comes along and releases it, such as heating it up. Even then it doesn't sound like much would get into the water.
What we really need to do is stop using frickin plastics for everything. Especially the plastic water bottle.
Better? (Score:2)
Eat the road or ride it. (Score:1)
Potholes? (Score:2)
Innovative next gen road building technology ... (Score:2)
Give me a second, I need to wake up from this fantasy...
Its still there. So not a dream.
They use movable metal barrier to block the outer two lanes of a three lane high way, 25 feet farther they block the inner two lanes. All the cars, trucks, buses and rickshaws snake through this obstacle course, traffic backs for kilometers...
all for what? "Check Post". The term of police check point. The police officer randomly peels off vehicles f
Road recyclability? (Score:2)
Asphalt roads are basically infinitely recyclable with an estimated 1% of the removed mass ending up in landfills. That crushes basically everything else for actual recycling efficiency especially since recycled roads are of identical quality. Glass and metal recycling is efficient too, but has lost efficiency due to contamination by dissimilar materials resulting in less desirable alloys. Plastic recycling suffers every penalty possible with the double problem of contamination and every remelt causing brea
Interesting idea (Score:2)
After all, both asphalt and plastics are petroleum products, one being more refined than the other.
However I have some concerns with the longevity of the uncovered plastic roads. Basically UV lights (the Sun) breaks down plastic. If you have left toys in the backyard, you notice they crumble to touch after a while. I am not sure how they will prevent the long term dissolving of these plastics roads into sun baked dust in a few years.
OMG, No! (Score:2)
Plastic? The Great Satan? Certainly not.
Everything should be on steel rails, known to be the ideal road surface since the 1800s, and cars need to be outlawed altogether. Think of the turtles!