America's Obsession With Wipes Is Tearing Up Sewer Systems (bloomberg.com) 175
Even before the pandemic, Americans were already flushing far too many wipes into the sewer system. After a year of staying at home, the pipe-clogging problem has gotten worse. From a report: Just ask Larry Hare, who says he immediately observed the change from his vantage point as the manager at a wastewater reclamation facility in Des Moines, Iowa. Sewer backups are up 50%, and he attributes this to the flushing of wipes, which don't break down in water like toilet paper. "We've always had the problem, but it just hasn't been as big a problem as it is currently," Hare said. With consumers cleaning everything from counters to doorknobs in hopes of thwarting the coronavirus, sanitary wipes are more popular than ever. In the 12 months through late January, their sales surged 75%, according to data from Nielsen. But the blockages they create when flushed -- dubbed fatbergs -- have become a costly headache. The Des Moines Metropolitan Wastewater Reclamation Authority has spent more than $100,000 over the past year and deployed specialized block-clearing trucks about 30 times, according to Hare. Similar problems are plaguing cities and towns across the U.S., and they're being forced to spend more and more on fixing the problem.
What? (Score:2)
Re:What? (Score:4)
it's in your username
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it's in your username
"Cam"?
Re: What? (Score:2)
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
It's in the product name. I am looking at an Equate knock-off brand literally called "Flushable Wipes".
Normally that implies ok for septic systems, but the fact is these, unlike tp, are not designed to weaken and break down when wet.
I stopped using them when I had a $400 bill for a clogged exit drain rooting under my house. It was some combo of these and paper towels, not tp.
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They should be sued for calling them "flushable". There's a difference between being able to flush something and it being OK for your septic tank or sewerage treatment plant that most people wouldn't appreciate.
I have a septic system for my house and I design plumbing systems, among other things, for a living. I have been telling people for years to not flush wet wipes.
That said, I do use wipes, and t
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Well, even rocks are flushable, as well as gold fish, toddler's toys, etc.
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Don't blame me, if it isn't human waste or TP, it isn't going down the toilet. I guess my Grandpa schooled me better than most?
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They should be sued for calling them "flushable". There's a difference between being able to flush something and it being OK for your septic tank or sewerage treatment plant that most people wouldn't appreciate.
Agree.. If they put "flushable" in the name, then the company that made the wipe should be due to pay all costs associated with recovering any plug involving them from the sewage systems.
I would suggest states get some kind of law in place requiring any flushable wipes products distributed contain u
Don't flush the condoms either (Score:3)
They should be sued for calling them "flushable".
Read the small print. I've noticed warning about only flushing one at a time. Of course that won'y really help if you have roots as the GP mentioned. Maybe there is even smaller print saying only use in pristine pipes with no buildup or intrusions.
I have a septic system for my house and I design plumbing systems, among other things, for a living. I have been telling people for years to not flush wet wipes.
A friend works for the water department. In years past he was telling people to stop flushing condoms.
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My grandparents were suspicious of double ply TP (Score:2)
Yea those flushable wipes say dont flush at all. Who wants shit in the wastebin?
Well I'll second another poster above. Grandparents who know a thing about plumbing due to using really old stuff in the past. They don't trust anything that is not TP. I pretty sure mine were suspicious about double ply.
:-)
So if you see the wastebin with a plastic bag from the supermarket lining it, you might have found such a person.
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
Might as well call wine glasses "droppable glassware." Technically, you can but they shatter into a million pieces.
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...I stopped using them when I had a $400 bill for a clogged exit drain rooting under my house. It was some combo of these and paper towels, not tp.
I really don't mean this as an "attack" on anyone who has to use alternative plumbing systems (I certainly have over the years), but I really struggle with the human who assumes it's ever OK to toss paper towels down the septic pipe.
I guess I'm just failing to understand that level of laziness, septic system or not. WTF, humans? Why are you assuming everything is biodegradable?
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I guess I'm just failing to understand that level of laziness, septic system or not. WTF, humans?
This story is about Americans. There's your answer.
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You must be using one of the ancient first generation toilets then, when cheaper manufacturers thought they could just get away with a smaller tank. Modern toilets from decent manufacturers are no longer like that. We have two Kohler toilets, one of them around 20 years old, and I doubt if we have to flush twice more than once a month.
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Paper towels and most flushable wipes are biodegradable, just not to as fast as wastewater facilities would like you to and therein lies the problem...
Uh, hold up here. The biodegradable factor, is NOT the problem here.
Let me remind you of the last century of proper toilet use.
No matter what decade we're in, and regardless of century, I'm still trying to paint the picture where a human has a need to toss paper towels down a toilet. What scenario creates this? Who the FUCK is throwing paper towels down a toilet so much that manufacturers said to themselves, "Yeah, toilet paper isn't good enough, we have to make these MASSIVE rolls of paper flushable too
On the box: "NEVER FLUSH MORE THAN ONE WIPE ..." (Score:2)
It's in the product name. I am looking at an Equate knock-off brand literally called "Flushable Wipes". Normally that implies ok for septic systems, but the fact is these, unlike tp, are not designed to weaken and break down when wet. I stopped using them when I had a $400 bill for a clogged exit drain rooting under my house. It was some combo of these and paper towels, not tp.
I have used biodegradable wipes while camping/hiking. Leaving them behind in a good depth cathole. When in Costco I saw wipes in the TP section and looked for biodegradable hoping for a cheaper option than specialty camping. I could not find biodegradable. What I did find, in all caps red letters was a "NEVER FLUSH MORE THAN ONE WIPE AT A TIME" warning on the box.
ONLY ONE will not save you from roots (Score:2)
What I did find, in all caps red letters was a "NEVER FLUSH MORE THAN ONE WIPE AT A TIME" warning on the box.
Oh, and of course, that will not save you if you have a root or other obstruction in the pipe.
Supposed to use wipes with TP not as a substitute? (Score:2)
Whenever I'm at a friend's house and I see "Flushable Wipes" by the toilet, I make it a point to tell them that they aren't actually flushable.
Do you first check to see if the waste basket has a disposable plastic liner? They might already know. :-)
BTW, the wipes I saw at Costco had a warning about using only one per flush. So I think the intended procedure is to use TP as normal. Then make an extra pass with the wipe for giggles.
Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's so-called "flushable" wipes for wiping a baby's bottom. Unfortunately people have adopted this hyenine convenience for adults. You can now buy butt wipes for adult men, marketed as "combat wipes" because it comes in a camo package and the material is black. You're supposed to use them when you're out in the field and pack your trash out. But some men want to feel extra manly by using them every day at and flushing them. Feels real manly when you have to call a plumber I guess?
P.S. I fix my own plumbing in my house and I take care not to create extra work for myself.
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Well, there's hemmorhoid wipes, which you also should not flush but I think many do.
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City water treatment plants may be able to sue for damages. They're the party harmed by this, and may have standing and be in the best position to push forward a suit.
But like most other things, I suspect the taxpayer will just absorb all costs. And each state legislature will have to try to work around it a probably ineffective way like California has done.
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I strongly suspect without any evidence.
Evidence but admittedly second hand. It's a topic of conversation in some forums that discuss self-sufficient living or prepper tips. People review the products, and then try dumb things like flushing them, then the forum jumps on them for the terrible idea. Another guy was using them multiple times a week when he'd do his work outs at the gym.
As for why there are camo wipes marketed in manly scents? ... feel free to postulate a different psychological theory from mine. It's not necessary to resort to infla
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Many wipes are actually marketable as "flushable". And indeed they're physically flushable, but they cause clogs further downstream like in your sewer line. I live on a dead end street and once the entire end of the street lost sewer service because of the things and we had to call the city to dredge the line.
This is another example marketers creating an environmental problem and public nuisance by shrewd exploitation of human psychology. The killer advantage of the toilet to our monkey brains is that it
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This is another example marketers creating an environmental problem and public nuisance by shrewd exploitation of human psychology.
Yes. The marketers should be financially responsible for this, since they're encouraging the conduct. I would favor states passing some simple act (1) Making it clearly understood that companies are liable for damage to systems by a product used in any method encouraged by the name or label, Also for any disposable towels, cleaning or drying sheets when not discouraged
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I am struggling to understand who thinks to flush a Lysol or Clorox wipe...
My tenants evidently... Plumbing costs so far exceed $2K. I hate wipes.
Re:What? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am struggling to understand who thinks to flush a Lysol or Clorox wipe...
Probably at least 30% of the population. i.e. something like 100 million people in the US. Not just "flushable" wipes and disinfecting wipes and baby wipes, but also non-biodegradable tampon dispensers and diapers and condoms and really just all kinds of trash. Basically, unless it's your own home and you have rigid control over who uses the toilet and what they flush, it's going to happen. My view is that there's no point fighting things like this and just use a technological solution. For example, macerating toilets are normally only used in basements where the wasted needs to be pushed up to go into the drains. They are basically a garbage disposal built into the toilet drain that shreds everything and pumps it up. Maybe it should just be standard for either all toilets to include a macerator, or for there to be a central ones in drain systems. Or, maybe they should be part of the sewer system if this is such a big problem. I'm generally of the opinion that, if the infrastructure can't handle how it's being used, then the infrastructure is under specced.
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Reminds me of the times when I was a kid, before Chicago implemented the "Deep Tunnel" project for their combined storm and sanitary sewers. When we would cross the bridge over the Chicago River to get to the park, we would wait to see how long it took before a rubber floated by. Didn't usually take long.
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Yes. They only tested with spinnets.
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Just a bit of trivia;
Municipal sewer systems in North America and Europe are designed for what is referred to as "The Halftime Flush", when millions of fans simultaneously take the the opportunity to drain off their previously consumed beer at the beginning of half time of the football (either type) game. According to a civil engineer I know that was the actual technical term they learned in college for the phenomenon.
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Marketing says it will work [cottonelle.com].
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Bidets! (Score:5, Interesting)
I know they have taken off somewhat this year with the toilet paper wars but I cannot miss an opportunity to sing their praises. Cleaner, is reportedly healthier and it's better for the environment. Like there's no downside other than American prudeness. A serious life changing purchase. Looking back at those years of just using paper I feel like I was living like a barbarian. I even installed one in my office bathroom.
For $40-50 it has already paid for itself in terms of TP.
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presumably tho this is about people using wipes to wipe down surfaces, and then thinking they are owed the luxury of flushing them because "they contain teh covids" .. it's a very typical American tragedy of the commons
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No, there are companies that sell "flushable wipes" as being better than toilet paper.
The problem is that while they're flushable, in that you can get them to flush, part of the design of toilet paper is that it easily disintegrates when agitated in water. This makes toilet paper safe to flush into a sewage system. The flushable wipes, on the other hand, are explicitly designed to not tear when being used to wipe, and that also means they don't easily break up in flowing pipes, leading them to clog.
It's not
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The flushable wipes, on the other hand, are explicitly designed to not tear when being used to wipe, and that also means they don't easily break up in flowing pipes, leading them to clog.
It's not just that. They're wetted (with a solution containing SOME water) at the factory. They have to survive weeks to months in water and still be strong enough to wipe with. So don't expect them to dissolve EVER, short of bacterial action or sunight.
I also have some similar wipes intended for cleaning freshly-laid egg
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You probably don't have chickens then. They're filthy animals that will shit pretty much everywhere except in the nest, but won't hesitate to step out of the nest, crap, step in it, and then get back in. We wash all our eggs because as my wife says, "Anything coming out of a chicken's butt is not going into my kitchen unless it's washed first."
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No, crazy is putting eggs covered in shit in your kitchen and not expecting food poisoning when they contaminate everything else in the kitchen. Even if the shit is not visible it just came out of the bird's cloaca, and they don't do enemas. Wash the egg with tap water, let it dry on the counter, and then put it in the refrigerator. We've had chickens for over a decade and my wife grew up with them (and without refrigeration), never a case of food poisoning from eggs.
We don't worry much if at all about f
I don't think purchasers would care (Score:3)
It's a "tragedy of the commons" problem but with pooping. Classic externalized costs, which Americans are _really_ bad at dealing with...
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They sell them in the UK too. They say "don't flush" but they know everyone does flush them. I mean what else are people going to do with a used wipe?
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although yes, bidets rule
Re:Bidets! (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, exactly - bidet master race checking in. I was a bit apprehensive to get one I didn't know the logistics, seemed "weird", would it spray shit everywhere, would the spigot get covered with explosive diarrhea etc..
Now that I have one, I absolutely loathe shitting anywhere else. What kind of a savage just smears the shit all over his ass? Fucking barbarians, that's who.
The only negative is I now shower even less than before. Previously, I had to shower if I had swamp-ass so that made me shower a bit more. Now, I can shit right after I shower and know I have a clean ass, no longer a concern so I only shower when I really fucking smell.
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The general decrease in swamp-ass is a definite plus.
It's funny that maybe more than a fancy car I desire one of those ultra-swank Toto cans. [totousa.com]
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Lol, now someone who owns one of those is someone who really takes shitting seriously. I just got one of the Luxe ones, without the vag sprayer (I heard the offset on those makes it a little less dead center). I considered one of the heated/drying ones but it would be a hassle to get a power outlet near toilet and I figured I'd try simple first.
Now that I kind of know how to use them, the plain one is perfect and I don't think I'd want a fancy one. Here in Phoenix it's hot enough year round that I don't nee
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Glad you're happy with your bidet, but, still, that might have been just a little too much information.
Also . . . not all of us, even my very un-politically-correct self, are comfortable with the expression "master race."
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Now that I have one, I absolutely loathe shitting anywhere else. What kind of a savage just smears the shit all over his ass? Fucking barbarians, that's who.
Conan was a barbarian, and he ruled the Cimmerians.
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Now that I have one, I absolutely loathe shitting anywhere else. What kind of a savage just smears the shit all over his ass? Fucking barbarians, that's who.
Conan was a barbarian, and he ruled the Cimmerians.
But he walked a bit funny due to itching.
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You were already modded to 5, so let me say thanks for giving my wife and a good LOL this morning!
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The only negative is I now shower even less than before. Previously, I had to shower if I had swamp-ass so that made me shower a bit more. Now, I can shit right after I shower and know I have a clean ass, no longer a concern so I only shower when I really fucking smell.
I don't think I've ever seen someone min-max personal hygiene.
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Not washing your arse afterwards is actually kinda disgusting when you start to think about it. If you got feaces on any other part of your body you wouldn't just wipe it off with a tissue and leave it at that.
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In a round the world trip we took shortly before the covids shut that down, my arse was as roses during the spell in bidet ridden Japan.
When we build our retirement house, there will be space afforded in the bathroom for Arsey McSquirter.
Bidets FTW (Score:2)
Couldn't agree more. I bought a bidet seat early in the pandemic when TP was scarce and haven't looked back.
PRO TIP: Spring the extra few bucks for a model that heats the water (the temperature is adjustable and you can turn it off in warm weather).
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I mean, I have a hard time imagining that it could get EVERYTHING off, and without toilet paper, how to you know when you're finished?
I immediately thought about the old joke about "How do blind people know when they're done wiping their ass?"
But unless these bidet things have the water force of a fire hose, I have a hard time imagining how it could possibly fully clean you after a particularly "messy" one.
And if the pressure was that high...what happens if you sit off center
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how do blind people know when they're done wiping their ass...
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how do blind people know when they're done wiping their ass...
The dog is trained to bark once for "keep cleaning", twice for "done". :-)
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Couldn't agree more. I bought a bidet seat early in the pandemic when TP was scarce and haven't looked back.
PRO TIP: Spring the extra few bucks for a model that heats the water (the temperature is adjustable and you can turn it off in warm weather).
Note - when visting Japan, the first kanji you learn are the ones on the toilet control.
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I fortunately do not live in a very wintery climate so I am always on "cold" water which is never that cold. That said even when the water is around 50F it's really not bad.
If you have hot water supply or an outlet near your toilet you can get units that have inlets for both and a mixing valve or ones that heat the water to your preferred temp.
Asswipe (Score:3)
To properly cleanse your ass with a high degree of cleanliness:
- Wipe with toilet paper
- Spray ass crack with water
- Spray ass crack with detergent solution
- Spray ass crack with water
- Repeat all previous steps
- Final ass wipe
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High end washlets (toilet seats with a built in bidet) do this. They also have a warm air dryer.
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Cleaner, is reportedly healthier and it's better for the environment.
When a surgeon goes to clean his slightly soiled hands to sterilize them for surgery, he takes a soft paper towel square and rubs a few times. Done!
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I have not used one of the fancy units, only a $40 Luxe model that operates on city pressure, nothing fancy. I usually "wash" for about 15-30 seconds and have a bit of a "tilt and lean" routine to cover all the bases.
When I first got it I was skeptical and would spot check but I after years I know when it's "done".
Maybe try a simpler unit, maybe try using it longer or maybe you just need more fiber. But whatever keeps you clean is what's important.
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I know they have taken off somewhat this year with the toilet paper wars but I cannot miss an opportunity to sing their praises. Cleaner, is reportedly healthier and it's better for the environment. Like there's no downside other than American prudeness.
I think there's a downside -- a wet downside / backside. How do you deal with that? On the occasions I've used bidets, I end up using TP to pat dry.
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Yeah, pat dry with TP. Or in the morning if i go before a shower just jump in the shower. Either way I use probably 10% of the TP i had used before i had the bidet.
If you want to get fancy you can have a model with a heated air dryer. Now that's living.
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If you want to get fancy you can have a model with a heated air dryer. Now that's living.
I've used those, but my experience is that I'd have to sit there for several minutes to get dry just from the hot air. Pat dry then air dry a bit to really dry completely seems to work well.
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and it's better for the environment
I'd be curious what the metrics are on that... How much toilet paper do you need to use to offset the manufacturing and shipment of a bidet?
Apparently people flush condoms too (Score:2)
To be expected from the generation that never really grew up into adults. Children flush all sorts of shit that isn't shit down the toilet.
Re: Apparently people flush condoms too (Score:3)
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I know people that flush cat litter.
"Flushable" wipes is a lie (Score:4, Informative)
I hadn't heard that sanitizing wipes were a huge problem, but the scented arse cleaners previously referred to as "baby wipes" are horrible for your home plumbing, private septic systems, and even huge municipal sewers [google.com].
Just don't.
Thanks... (Score:2)
And now that song Pocket Full of Hawthornes [youtube.com] from Community [wikipedia.org], episode, Advanced Gay [wikipedia.org] (S3 E6) is stuck in my head. Gotta cut back on the Amazon Prime ...
This is not new (Score:4, Informative)
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> Folks, these are not flushable, and boxes of wipes that say otherwise LIE.
I am surprised there isn't a class-action by now.
It's a manufacturing/design flaw (Score:3)
People who have RVs have long known about short-fiber toilet paper that breaks down more easily than standard stuff. It's a matter of designing it correctly. But every company in the world is looking to cut costs every way they can (because parasitic costs keep going up but that's another story) so the TP and wipes companies aren't going to spend the extra money to make it properly when few people know the difference.
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No it's not. It's flushing a product that wasn't in any way designed to be flushed. These wipes are not intended to replace toilet paper, yet that's what people are doing. If I drive a Ferrari down onto the beach and it gets clogged in the sand it's not the Ferrari which has a design flaw, it's my fucking brain.
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Dude Wipes [dudeproducts.com] are 100% intended to replace toilet paper. They aren't designed to be flushed (and still cause problems), but they are intended to be flushed.
Also I have no idea what kind of person buys that kind of marketing.
Cheaper to buy a bidet? (Score:2)
yep i've been bitten (Score:5, Insightful)
A coupla years ago I had to move apartments because a neighbor flushed a 'flushable' wipe. It caused a clog and filled my apartment with water. I don't blame my neighbor and I don't even blame my complex. Why the manufacturers of these products can label these as 'flushable' is beyond me.
On a side note: The resulting claim with my insurance company was a huge pain in the ass. They wanted me to hire a third party to assess the damage THEN they complained about the third party as if that was my idea. I like the concept of insurance but I feel like here in the USA it's just a layer of complication that allows middlemen to get rich at the expense of us too busy to dedicate hours of time to maintaining the claim.
Paper towels for a while too (Score:3)
When the SOBs bought up all the TP, some people used paper towels and flushed them. It became an expensive proposition to clean out the system because they don't break down like TP. Right in my neighborhood, a special truck pulled up and jacked in to the sewer. It was actually kind of cool, because it was a block away and yet the suction from the truck's cleaning apparatus sucked all the water out of my toilet. Briefly, I could smell the system until the water flowed back in. That was a lot less cool, but at least our local pipes were clean. Now take that and multiply it across the entire county, and it gets quite expensive. I think the suction trucks may be a regular thing though, so it's not like they suddenly had to work the whole system; but I bet they had to increase the frequency.
Deadpool 2 is to blame. (Score:2)
The scene where Cable first shows up is the cause of it all...
Market Forces (Score:2)
Typically the market would respond. Wipes exist, people like them. If they're causing sewer problems, then the sewer industry would respond. But here we have a breakdown where sewer systems are operated by government and are often woefully out of date at a baseline, based on the number of customers they serve and the variety of uses we get from them. Instead of upgrading the systems to handle what the customers actually need it to do, government starts PR campaigns telling people they don't deserve to b
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Wrong, not sewer system's problem when something flushed that should not be flushed (condoms and fat historically the biggest blockers.) Wipes need to be made of water soluble materials just like toilet paper is.
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Are you a software engineer?
Because only a software developer would propose implementing a whole new national sewer system, tearing up streets and disrupting traffic, at the cost of billions of dollars, while blaming an ineffectual, cruel and uncaring government, instead of just using a wastebasket.
Nasty? Nasty! (Score:2)
I worked at a wastewater plant long, long ago.
I could not believe the number of condoms screened at the intake.
They would fill a dumptruck and send them to the landfill.
A billion dollar idea for you. (Score:2)
I'm too old and lazy, but here, go make your fortune:
Create an add-on bidet that also has a water-powered food-processor-type blade to grind up the
bits of things that are flushed. Sure, there's issues, but go science the shit out of it, so to speak.
Fatbergs are the problem. (Score:2)
Fatbergs are the problem. Once you can train the fathers to stop using wet-wipes and start using TP like they should be, the problem will be solved.
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OK, I get it. I should scale back my wipe use.
Or put it in the trashcan. (You use it AFTER you wipe so it only gets traces of material onto it, it is germicidal, and janitorial trashcan liners are very cheap and break down in the landfill eventually.)
Or get a bidet. Or a bidet attachment (there are fancy pricey ones and simple inexpensive ones). Or a hand-sprayer bidet attachment. (The water is usually room temperature because it's been sitting in the local plumbing while you were sitting, so you don't
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Problems caused by technology have technological solutions. Alas problems caused by human nature like fear and hatred have no solution and will always be with us..
Considering the fact that the western world (maybe the world in general) has become much less violent, I suspect technology, in the form of advanced agriculture, contsruction technologies, and advanced entertainment, has solved a lot of fear and hatred, or at least channeled somewhere relatively harmless.