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The Media Government The Courts

America's FBI Withdraws Demand for IP Addresses of Readers of a Newspaper's Story During a 35-Minute Window (msn.com) 257

UPDATE: America's Federal Bureau of Investigation has now "withdrawn a subpoena demanding records from USA TODAY that would identify readers of a February story about a southern Florida shootout that killed two agents and wounded three others," the newspaper reported today.

Friday USA Today had reported that it's "fighting a subpoena from the FBI demanding records that would identify readers of a February story" about a Southern Florida shooting that killed two of the investigative agency's agents and wounded three others.

Long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 shared their original report on Friday: In a motion filed in federal district court in Washington, D.C. asking a judge to quash the subpoena, Gannett, USA TODAY's parent company, said the effort is not only unconstitutional but also violates the Justice Department's own rules... The subpoena, issued in April, demands the production of records containing IP addresses and other identifying information "for computers and other electronic devices" that accessed the story during a 35-minute time frame starting at 8:03 p.m. on the day of the shooting.

"Being forced to tell the government who reads what on our websites is a clear violation of the First Amendment," Maribel Perez Wadsworth, USA TODAY's publisher, said in a statement. "The FBI's subpoena asks for private information about readers of our journalism...."

The subpoena, signed by an FBI agent in Maryland, said the records relate to a criminal investigation. But it's unclear how USA TODAY's readership records are related to the investigation of the Florida shooting, or why the FBI is focusing on the time frame. Wadsworth said Gannett's attorneys tried to contact the FBI before and after the company fought the subpoena in court, but she said the FBI has yet to provide any meaningful explanation of the basis for the subpoena.

The FBI and the Justice Department declined to comment.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

America's FBI Withdraws Demand for IP Addresses of Readers of a Newspaper's Story During a 35-Minute Window

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  • by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:38PM (#61457352) Journal

    There is no respect for civil rights in this government

    • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:03PM (#61457418)

      There is no respect for civil rights in this government

      You need to scream it LOUDER from the back so the Attention Whores we call "Representatives" can hear you in between their CNN/Fox interviews and tweets to make themselves look important.

      Otherwise, nothing changes.

      • I'm not directing it at the representatives, they're only doing what comes naturally. It's to the voters. Only they can do anything.

    • by Frank Burly ( 4247955 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:22PM (#61457464)

      FBI agents were shot so I expect an exhaustive investigation. I would hope that internally someone would point out that it is not a fair trade to invade the privacy of hundreds of citizens to--maybe--narrow the field of suspects. But I suspect that the reaction to that argument would be "let the courts sort it out."

      Which is what they are doing, and I hope the FBI loses.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        We shouldn't be on pins and needles all the time. We need to change the demeanor of the government from "master" to "servant"

          • That's not so fictional [cia.gov]

            • The "Bureau of Sabotage" was depicted as competent and aware of its own flaws, unlike the gross incompetence shown by many intelligence agencies. It was also grotesquely corrupt, its leaders involved in granting immortality for their own leadership through body snatching of brutalized slaves.

              Frank Herbert's fiction was fascinating. He also described a very useful distinction between "bias" and "prejudice", where bias favors one side, but prejudice is a refusal to even acknowledge evidence for the other side

            • Great, thanks for tricking me into disclosing my network address to you know who. Actually, the piece seems to have been taken from an operations manual for San Francisco city government, except for the bag of moths. Where else could one possibly encounter the phrase "paper bag filled with two or three dozen large moths"?
        • Divided government is supposed to act as a sort of Bureau of Sabotage (referenced above). The "get shit done" portion of the government (Executive) identifies an easy avenue of gathering information about a crime, and the "get justice done" branch (Judicial) steps in and tells the Executive that they can't do things the most efficient way because the competing interests are too important.

          It would be nice if leadership in every branch of government thought that getting their job done should sometimes be a s

      • The FBI already narrowed the scope to a 35 minute window before making the request. If that's the least-intrusive search and they can justify the need for the search, then they'll get their data.
        • Don't be so naive. Once the precedent is set, it won't be confined to small windows and the most serious cases.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:08PM (#61457772)

      Well, Democrats = strongly right-wing party and Republicans = extremist right-wing party. What do you expect? The worst of the worst are on control of your country.

      • Don't know if I'd call them "strongly right-wing"
        Certainly slightly right of center.
        Ultimately, under their tent does exist some actual real-life leftists, but they're a pointless amount, and some pretty far right people, which are also a pointless amount.
        The vast majority are standard social democrats that are slowly moving from slightly right of center toward the center.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by mamba-mamba ( 445365 )

        First of all, I don't think civil rights is a left right thing. Second of all, I am not aware of anyone on the left who cares about it either (for example, I am not aware of any leftist 2nd amendment advocates). Since the 2nd amendment is right there in the bill of rights after the 1st amendment, I consider it to be under the rubric of civil rights.

        • Perhaps what you say is true of some "on the left" (what does that actually mean? Democrats?)
          But I think mostly you're mischaracterizing the "liberal" standpoint.

          The second amendment to the constitution says:

          A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

          Let's avoid an "individual right" vs. "collective" right argument, because I'm not interested in that.
          More importantly, I don't see anything in that which indicates that any and all things that may be considered an armament are free from regulation.
          You accept that certain weaponry can be regulated,

    • There is no respect for civil rights in this government

      Well, Dumb Ass, if that was true, USA Today (Gannett) would not be having it quashed. You're as smart as a bag of rocks, and that's how much you understood of this story.

      A prosecutor did something stupid, and is in the early stages of getting smacked down. But all you heard was Gubermint coming.

      • That's not the government who is upholding civil rights however. In this situation, a private entity had to deny the government its request, and pay for legal council to do so without any potential reward.

        How many news agencies would just quietly "comply", or worse not even require a court order.

        This reporting is happening before a judge reaches a decision so we won't see if they do the dubious job of enforcing rules which hold their co-workers accountable for violating the law, so it remains to be seen if

    • and avoid "Tough on Crime" politicians like the plague. We have people who respect civil rights (Liz Warren, AOC, Bernie Sanders, ,etc, etc) but not enough of them.

      And for fucks sake vote in your mid term election.
      • by shanen ( 462549 )

        Unfortunately the primaries are for and controlled by the extremists and the mid-term election is subject to the gerrymandering. You can't actually hope to select a politician when the politicians have already pre-selected the voters. So this branch of the "discussion" is little better than the false equivalency Subject of the FP, but you weren't lucky enough to FP so that your Subject could be propagated through more than half of the conversation.

        Meanwhile, the ACTUAL story was about a slim ray of hope. Ap

    • Sure there is. If they didn't respect rights then they wouldn't be going through open court, they'd be using a dark court as is done w/ FISA. Or they would be requesting all records, not merely IP records for a very narrow 35-minute window.

      Our rights aren't unlimited; they can be overridden by a court when compelling evidence is presented. As far as I have read, the FBI keeps referring to the deceased as a "child porn suspect" but never reported finding any evidence of that after the raid. For all we know,

    • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      Yea who do they think they are wanting that data, an ad agency?!
  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:44PM (#61457368)

    but don't you wish paper rags hadn't been killed by web-based newspapers now?

    • but don't you wish paper rags hadn't been killed by web-based newspapers now?

      You act like a redaction on page 17 three months later is any better for a paper document full of biased lies vs. the electronic version.

      Doesn't matter the medium when the product they're selling is Clickbait Bullshit.

    • You say that as if the FBI wouldn't subpoena a store's security recordings of their USA Today paper stand for a 30 minute period.
    • by hawguy ( 1600213 )

      but don't you wish paper rags hadn't been killed by web-based newspapers now?

      I do not.

      I subscribed to the paper edition of my local newspaper to get digital access because it was cheaper than subscribing to digital-only, and the paper goes straight into the recycle bin since I've already read all of the stories I'm interested in by the time the paper arrives. I couldn't even give it away, asked my doctor and dentist if they wanted me to have it sent there and they both declined.

    • the problem is a) industry consolidation with wealthy oligarchs buying everything up (and being allowed to) and b) a lack of media literacy, in particular the lack of understanding of the importance of muck racking to pay the bills for real journalism (Gawker anyone?)
  • side channel attack (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mSparks43 ( 757109 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:45PM (#61457370) Journal

    my guess
    someone they want but can't find posted a link to the story in that time slot and the hope is they used their real ip address.

    • It's plausible. The FBI would still be running afoul of Blackstone's Formulation.

      This is a common pattern. Whenever a cop gets killed, they throw all the rules out the window, and, frankly, show their true selves

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:47PM (#61457376)

    I got so use to unquestioning deference to all things FBI while Trump was in office that stories like this are weird. For a while there no abuse of power by the FBI seemed to phase anyone.

  • by Krishnoid ( 984597 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:50PM (#61457384) Journal
    USA Today: "Here's their home addresses and the IPs you wanted. Satisfied?"

    Judge: "Information has been provided and the subpoena has been ruled as satisfied."

    FBI: "Ok! Here we go, the IP addresses trace to ... what's at this address ... a brothel? And the credit card attached to the physical address provided for the subscriber are ... wait, I think this is my mom's address."

    • by bosef1 ( 208943 )

      Talk about working from home due to COVID-19, amIright? Of course, their Mom always had to wear a bag over her head, so adding the mask really wasn't a big issue.

  • by feedayeen ( 1322473 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:03PM (#61457416)

    I think I've come up with the only scenario where this could reasonably be justified, and it's quite absurd:

    1. USA Today publishes a change to the article at 8:03PM about a mass shooting.
    2. An anonymous caller at 8:38PM calls up the FBI to bitch about inaccuracies in the story wanting to correct them because he's the shooter.

    The article in question was last updated at 6:23PM ET that day. There's a 100 minute gap there so even my absurd hypothetical makes no sense.

    • How about this:

      Someone prints out an article and sends it to the FBI as part of a taunt, or the FBI comes into possession of a printed copy of the article through a search, or some other means.

      Somehow the FBI can track the specific version of the article to a 35 minute window -- or perhaps the 35 minute window is simply that there is a timestamp in the printed copy, but the FBI doesn't trust the accuracy of the timestamp?

      Has the FBI heard of NTP? I would not count on it.

      • That's a fair assessment and hardily unreasonable for digital forensics. There are a few other artifacts visible that could be used, some other news stories and ads when viewing the site:

        Depending on what artifacts are visible on an article, you might actually get a pretty narrow window of time. Like right now the last 2 slashdot articles posted have a 1 hour delta between their timestamps. If I included an article with the title "GCC Will No Longer Require Copyrights Be Assigned to the FSF" but "Google Rel

    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:05PM (#61457754) Homepage Journal

      It is a remarkably *specific* demand.

      The shooter, by the way, is known. David Lee Huber was killed during the incident, so that part of your scenario can't be right, but I think you've got what's going on right *in principle*. Someone who for some reason is known to have looked at the article in that window can be linked to some *other* crime, and his identity is unknown.

      Since Huber was being served a warrant on child porn charges, it's likely to be related to that, not the shooting.

    • Or, how about: someone tipped off the suspect, and then watched the news to see the fireworks. If the FBI knows the suspect received a call, that would give them a timeframe. Just one theory I can drum up.
    • Or they did hear a suspected party that claimed he was at a certain location reading that article and can't be involved.

  • by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:10PM (#61457434) Journal

    I'm kind of surprised that this news doesn't make more people on Slashdot react and participate in a discussion about this.

    Why? Because that's the beginning of a very dangerous trend in our society. If you read news about it, you must be involved and interested in that "sort of thing".

    Imagine the following scenario, you read some news about burglaries, and you skip reading news about anything else, let's say the police get this bright idea that they want the IP addresses of the readers of a local newspaper, to see how many people reads the news about a local burglary. Would some of those readers be the involved parts in that burglary? If it catches your fancy, or your interest - you COULD be one of them, or perhaps you like to read about burglaries and that makes you more likely to become a future criminal?

    You can "insert any crime here" as future thought crimes and how the gov. could demand information about people who tend to read news about minority groups or anyone that has a different agenda than what your current government wants you to have. Let us say that you don't like the current ruling politicians and you read news that critique these, or/and critiques the current system - are you more likely to become a threath to their rule? So you should be monitored, because you are a risk to the system (officially), but unofficially perhaps you're a future school shooter? Perhaps someone so dissatisfied with a local politician that you plan action against him/her?

    Where does this end?

    • I'm kind of surprised that this news doesn't make more people on Slashdot react and participate in a discussion about this.

      Hmm, in my case, have been reacting to this. Just not on /.

      As to participating, when I have something that I want to say about it, I'll post it. Till then, I'll just read. Which is the same thing I do to every story, on every forum that I read.

      This story? Need more information before I can tell who is behaving like an idiot here. The Cops? Likely, but not certain. Everyone else

    • by lsllll ( 830002 )
      Has it been so long that you've forgotten about PRISM [wikipedia.org]? NSA can already do all that.
    • Count me in the camp that has trouble understanding the objections (with a warrant). It is a very specific window and article. It would take much more to actually convict someone of a crime, but it might verify something they already know or lead to something.

      I’m not for trusting law enforcement blindly, but I also think distrusting them blindly is non-productive.

      • Because it would set the precedent the government has the right to demand a list of everyone who read a specific item, and there's no way that would stay confined to narrow windows for murder cases. The government shouldn't have the right to compile a list of everyone who read some particular writing.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • ..but what judge signed off on a warrant so obviously unconstitutional?

    • It is a subpoena. Not a warrant. No judge signed off on it.

      That's why this is before a judge now, for a hearing.

  • Itâ(TM)s USA today for gods sake, whatâ(TM)s that , like a couple of octogenarian at most

  • archive.ph

    Sometimes someone else has already archived it for me.

  • So the FBI thinks the person who leaked the info could not wait until a story appeared in USA Today ? What, they think he was hitting refresh thousands of times to see the story on the site like trying to buy tickets for some popular activity ?

    How dumb is that. Also, if an FBI employee, don't they have spyware on their Workstations ? Yes they could have used another device, but if they are stupid enough to sit waiting for a article on the USA site, maybe they could narrow it down by seeing what their wor

  • IP addresses? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:46PM (#61457530) Journal
    IP addresses can ar BEST only identify ISP subscribers, not individual computers let alone who is using them. With Amazon sidewalk now apparently a thing, it is very easily possible that a person using someone's ISP connection may not even be directly known to or affiliated with a subscriber, even if the latter might otherwise have a secured network.
    • It's not just Amazon sidewalk. One can sign onto the publicly available WiFi network that Comcast attaches to its cable modem/routers in people's houses.

  • Perhaps they are just trying to backstop some information they have that they can't introduce in court?

    • They're not introducing anything in court, the perp died during the incident that they're investigating.

      They're really investigating a leak, and they wanted to show their extreme incompetence while they were at it. Maybe the investigator was is the leaker, and wants to prove a point?

  • by Kludge ( 13653 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @02:49PM (#61457706)

    The newspaper would not have to worry about turning those IP addresses over to the police IF they did not store those IP addresses themselves. Duh. The newspaper put their own readers in jeopardy by doing that.

  • Why does the FBI want to know who read this article? Is this supposed to help them solve some crime?
  • ... the DOJ is trying to put together a court case. And they just don't want to get blind-sided by people who may have preconceived ideas of guilt/innocence during jury selection.

    35 minutes because publishers have been known to redact sensitive or incorrect data from web pages pretty quickly.

  • They are just broken weaponized political groups now.
  • or should be.
    Regardless of your chosen media. Librarians have defended this principle for a very long time.

    http://www.ala.org/advocacy/in... [ala.org] : "All people, regardless of origin, age, background, or views, possess a right to privacy and confidentiality in their library use.1 When users recognize or fear that their privacy or confidentiality is compromised, true freedom of inquiry no longer exists. "

    A few librarians have been very courageous in defending this principle, standing up to powerful forces. It has

  • Subpoena Withdrawn (Score:3, Informative)

    by CyberMatt ( 18388 ) on Saturday June 05, 2021 @04:41PM (#61457948)
    The FBI has dropped an effort to force the publisher of USA Today to turn over information that could disclose who read one of the newspaper's online stories about a February shooting incident in Florida that left a suspect and two FBI agents dead, as well as three other agents wounded. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com]
    • They did is thinking, if no one important notices cool and no down side, if caught oh oops Subpoena Withdrawn. The individuals making these decisions should not be public servants.
  • A question about American Law from someone in Europe.

    Is there a law requiring to newspaper to store these IP addresses in the first place?

    If so then (a) How much detail do they have to keep (e.g. Do they have to record record individual article access or just overall access to the site? Could they just record access time to one hour resolution?) and (b) How long do they have to keep the data for?

    If there isn't such a law then why are they bothering to store all this data?
  • How many other FBIs are there?

  • Both Facebook and Google probably have more detailed records.

  • I'm not with the 'protect civil rights' angle on this one folks

    The fact the FBI only want IPs for a specific 35 minute window means they likely have specific information. Perhaps a taunting phone call made during that time referencing the

    Their mistake was to file a subpoena. They'll probably serve a warrant instead.

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