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Nordic Countries Endure Heatwave as Lapland Records Hottest Day Since 1914 (theguardian.com) 141

Nordic countries have registered near-record temperatures over the weekend, including highs of 34C (93.2F) in some places. From a report: The latest figures came after Finland's national meteorological institute registered its hottest temperature for June since records began in 1844. Kevo, in Lapland, recorded heat of 33.6C (92.5F) on Sunday, the hottest day since 1914 when authorities registered 34.7C (94.5F), said the STT news agency. Several parts of Sweden also reported record highs for June.

The high temperatures follow the record-breaking heatwave and wildfires that have caused devastation in parts of North America. The intense heatwave has killed 95 people in the US state of Oregon alone, its governor said on Sunday. Hundreds are believed to have died from the heat in the US north-west and south-western Canada. Experts and officials fear that the catastrophic conditions, fuelled by the climate crisis, will only get worse through the coming months. Michael Reeder, a professor of meteorology in the school of Earth, atmosphere and environment at Australia's Monash University, said the events on the European and North American continents were linked.

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Nordic Countries Endure Heatwave as Lapland Records Hottest Day Since 1914

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  • How the Arctic ice cover is doing, if the heatwave is reaching that far north.

    • How the Arctic ice cover is doing, if the heatwave is reaching that far north.

      Looks like it's similar to 2012 [nsidc.org].

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Not sea ice, gees. Only snow and ice on land, sea ice, not a problem, I will not bother to explain why.

        So how much extra snow and ice is melting on land, how much have river flows changed, increased or decreased. How much permafrost is not so perma any more.

        Have they checked methane levels, are they getting dangerous, is localised regions. Melting methane hydrates and activated biological agents and a whole lot of rotting compressed vegetation to consume.

        You have low air movement, lots of melting and rotti

        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          PS there is a trick with sea ice that make it an invalid measure of climate. The trick fresh water freezes at higher temperature than sea water. If you have a lot of rainfall over seawater, well that top layer becomes a whole lot less salty and can start freezing earlier and easier, more readily getting the salt water below to start squeezing out the salt and freeze. So you can have a lot of sea ice but not because it is extra cold but because it snowed whole damn lot and the top layer of the sea could free

  • by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @01:32PM (#61556195)

    Lucky for us, it at least gets down below 20 centigrade at night unlike the previous heatwave few years back.

    As a background: Very few homes in Finland have air conditioning, but tend to be well isolated.

    With the cooler nights, having full ventilation at night to cool down the house and then closing up everything for the day actually helps a lot with this one.

    In the previous heatwave the night time temperatures stayed high so there was no real help from such.

    • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

      Also, if you needed to fix your car or whatever, you'd have the option of doing it at night instead of risking heatstroke.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Yeah, that was the problem in Canada - it just didn't cool down at night (the summer daytime high was supposed to be the low temperature).

      Of course, after going through that nearly 50C few days, 34C seems much more pedestrian (of course, we're supposed to get a heatwave of around 34C for a few days and that's it).

      Yeah yeah Finland cold. But you have to admit, 50C is in the "WTF Middle East Heat" or "Death Valley CA". 34C is so much more... average for a lot of places.

      • You have to remember that Finland is a lot further north than the hottest areas of Canada.

        That area where the temperature was measured in Finland is about as far north as the north coast of Canada and the southernmost parts of Finland are about as far north as southenmost parts of Northwest territories/Yukon.

  • How about we build some nuclear fission power plants instead of keep making news reports about global warming? Oh, right, because that would solve the problem once and for all and the politicians can't scare people into voting for them instead of the other candidate.

    At some point all political parties will have run out of excuses to not build nuclear power plants. It looks like the US Democrats got scared enough last summer to at least put that as an option in their platform document. Once we start build

    • Well, talking about Finland.. There is actually a large nuclear power plant under construction in Finland and another to likely start construction soon.

      The one one under construction is 12+ years late from schedule, The construction started in 2005 and was supposed to be ready 2009, but is now projected to be ready next year..

      So building nuclear power might not be a very quick solution.. though likely a fairly good one.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        That's because there was a massive "Russians evil" campaign at the time, so we went with the French, who promised to deliver a fixed cost station if we agree to allow them to build a prototype of their new reactor.

        And then it ran into a bureaucratic incompatibility problem. In French culture, when someone responsible for delivering the goods judges them to go "good enough", they do the paperwork and pass the thing on. In Finland, it's expected that you actually deliver everything that is in the contract, so

        • I am not sure that the Russian safety culture is all that much more compatible. Having talked with people who have worked there in not too far distant past have plenty of horror stories of unsafe things being seen as normal.

          So I will reserve judgement until I see if same sort of delays hit the next plant once it starts to be built.

          • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

            Thing with the way things are done in Finland, it's pretty much irrelevant what safety culture is in source country. Our bureaucracy will go through the project with a fine tooth comb and make it compatible with ours. Even if a government monopoly like Areva is on the other end, and their government spends incredible amount of diplomatic pressure to get our government to concede.

            Bureaucracy in Finland is very strong and an institution all into itself that takes great pride in doing things "correctly" all th

            • I guess we will see in the coming decade about the Russian ability to do that. I am personally quite skeptical, given the differences in cultures.

              As for Russians having built some of the previous reactors, but that was actually more like built together as the protective buildings around the reactors were built by Wartsila and some of the gear came from Westinghouse, instrumentation and control parts were also western.

              Basically even back then the Russian design did not fill the safety requirements and the re

              • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

                You appear to have surface knowledge of the project, but not any kind of in depth knowledge of critical details. The project flow of Loviisa reactors being talked about was actually exactly what I'm saying about Russian design culture vs French one. Russians came with a concept they used domestically. Our officials started asking them questions about design improvements, security, emergency procedures, normal running procedures, automation, etc.

                Same thing that happened with French. Difference being that Rus

                • Interesting details.

                  I only know what I heard working with their office IT systems in 1980s. Never actually studied the things in any detail. So your knowledge seems much more in depth. I just found things interesting when working there so many things came up in the discussions and such, but of course much is forgotten since..

        • In French culture, when someone responsible for delivering the goods judges them to go "good enough", they do the paperwork and pass the thing on.
          That is nonsense. Perhaps you should once go to France?

          • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

            Perhaps you should go to Finland? Or Estonia?

            Because I've seen this French cultural issue in both countries. And it was the same exact problem with two completely different companies, at two different time frames in two different industries (nuclear government monopoly formerly known as Areva in Finland, Alstom building shale rock burner plant in Estonia).

            Both ended up in courts, in both cases French basically had to pay the other party off. In Finland, it looks like they'll sorta kinda get to the finishing

      • Nuclear power is a dead end and that is a perfect example. Plants run double or even triple over budget and still need massive subsidies to keep operating. Renewables are getting cheaper every year and don't take decades to implement.

        • That doesn't matter. That's because there will not be enough wind and solar power to meet their needs. They can choose nuclear power or an energy shortage. Solar power projects used to run double and triple their budgets too. Did they stop trying? Did they give up? Or did they realize that with experience they will learn to be on schedule and under budget?

          I don't care which nation you are referring to, if they are concerned about lowering CO2 emissions then they will at some point build nuclear fissio

        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Nuclear power is a 100% requirement for renewable. 100 % of essential renewable energy must be backed by nuclear power. That is because, renewable is totally exposed to the environment, not enclosed in a reinforced structure. Large hail storm could wipe out a cities solar panels and what took years to build out, can not be rebuilt in a day, take months, city no power for months, PEOPLE DIE IN LARGE NUMBERS, tens of thousands. Same with wind, exceptional storm wind farms die, lots of them and again, what too

          • I really wonder what kind of medication you are taking or not taking.

            Large hail storm could wipe out a cities solar panels and what took years to build out, can not be rebuilt in a day, take months, city no power for months, PEOPLE DIE IN LARGE NUMBERS, tens of thousands.
            Simply speaking: hail storms only happen in developed countries. A hail storm in middle if Africa is rare.
            Hence: the city is connected to the national grid. No one dies.
            And why people would die in a "first world country" because electric po

    • by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @02:52PM (#61556509)

      Solar and wind (plus batteries to load follow) are a lot cheaper than nuclear and can be built in 1-2 years vs 10-20 years for nuclear so we should be focusing on building solar and wind.

      • by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:19PM (#61556637)

        The experts disagree with you. Experts like Dr. David JC MacKay. He documented his work on why wind and solar power will be insufficient. http://www.withouthotair.com/ [withouthotair.com]

        There is not enough land for solar panels and onshore windmills in the UK to supply their energy needs. Offshore windmills cost more than nuclear fission. That is why the UK is working so hard on building nuclear fission power plants. They listen to the scientists, and they looked at the numbers. This is true for many other nations besides the UK but Dr. MacKay was hired by the UK government so that is where he applied his numbers. The numbers for other nations will work out much the same.

        By saying that it will take 10 to 20 years to build a nuclear power plant only means we should not delay any longer. We can certainly build some wind and solar in the mean time but there is no viable energy plan for the UK, and nations like it, without nuclear fission power. Dr. MacKay left that quite clear with his notes. Other people did this same work and discovered the same thing. Where are your numbers to show otherwise?

        • Your experts forget about the enviorbnmental impact of:
          1 Pre processing light water nuclear fuel AINT CHEAP / clean.
          2.The cost of holding onto that spent nuclear fuel while the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD sits around trying to figure out "perfect" geological disposal method (while expensive waste piles up at every existing plant)
          3. The cost of nuclear reprocessing is about 10x the cost of normal fuel + geo disposal (and still has waste product)

          see here:

          https://www.osti.gov/servlets/... [osti.gov]

          • 1) Cheap: Compared to the energy you get out of it, it is actually cheap. Clean: True enough. No industrial processes are "clean" but that is not specially "unclean" compared to many other processes to extract things.
            2)Well, again using Finland as example: Final disposition of the spent fuel from the nuclear plants in Finland will start within few years.
            3)No need to reprocess.

            • 1. if nuclear is so cheap to run, why is it still more expensive than any other renewable energy source out there?

              2. I've heard this line of bull so many times before, I would rather wait for someone to actually make it happen (no "mission accomplished" sign for you until you actually overcome the political minefield of transporting spent fuel around, and then actually get it i the ground) .

              3. I'm just saying that the waste built-up to 10x what it currently is will be a "big problem" that nobody here has

          • Your experts forget about the enviorbnmental impact of:...

            No, they did not.

            The environmental impact of solar power makes it's use instead of nuclear power an environmental disaster. Here's examples on how that conclusion was reached.
            http://www.roadmaptonowhere.co... [roadmaptonowhere.com]
            https://cmo-ripu.blogspot.com/... [blogspot.com]
            https://cmo-ripu.blogspot.com/... [blogspot.com]
            http://www.withouthotair.com/ [withouthotair.com]

            I saw nothing in your linked article that compared nuclear power to any alternatives. You can cite how bad nuclear power would be for the environment but that doesn't mean that solar and wind power is better

        • Experts like Dr. David JC MacKay. He documented his work on why wind and solar power will be insufficient. http://www.withouthotair.com/ [withouthotair.com] [withouthotair.com]
          And who would beleive such bullshit? Especially with a site of that name?
          Especially with Scotland, Denmark and Germany, and Portugal, getting most power from wind now?

          We can certainly build some wind and solar in the mean time but there is no viable energy plan for the UK UK is switching to wind, and leading in tidal power.

          You have absolutely no clue, bu

          • And who would beleive such bullshit? Especially with a site of that name?

            Maybe because he was an energy expert, someone highly regarded in the field, and he showed his work. Where is your work?

            Especially with Scotland, Denmark and Germany, and Portugal, getting most power from wind now?

            Citation needed.

            You have absolutely no clue, but you show us that basically with every of your fanatic posts.

            If so then why reply? To make a counter argument? Where is your argument?

            (Oh, and AFAIK the UK is building one or two nukes atm ... so what are you ranting about?)

            What are you "ranting about"? You claim that the UK is switching to wind power and then point out that they are building new nuclear power plants. That doesn't look like "switching to wind" to me. It looks like they are making desperate attempts to meet their energy demands and CO2 emission goals

            • Especially with Scotland, Denmark and Germany, and Portugal, getting most power from wind now?

              Citation needed.
              There is no citation needed.
              It is even on /. nearly every week, dumbass.

              Where is your work?
              I do not work as a researcher in the energy field. Ooops!

              That doesn't look like "switching to wind" to me.
              Yes, we figured already that you have a mental problem, that is mostly centered around reading comprehension: UK is switching from fossil fuels to wind (Scotland did already, you know that it is a part of UK, right?). And keep (build some new) reactors - most likely for their nuclear weapon progr

      • Solar and wind do not provide base load power, they are intermittent power. As such , in absence of a massive way to store a region power for multiple days, they cannot provide for a region power and industries. If somebody come up with an easy and usable way everywhere to store power, they would solve that problem. until then all plan to replace base load with intermittent power are at best election campaigning on hot air, or pipe dream (e.g. Germany planning 10% renewable).

        As base load we have 1) fossi
        • Solar and wind do not provide base load power,
          Perhaps you want to read up:
          a) what base load is
          b) why modern grids are shifting away from base load (Germany e.g. has far less base load plants than its "base load level").

          hey are intermittent power.
          Yes, and that is not a conflict with base load.
          For load following or balancing power plants it does not matter if they are orchestrated around intermittent sources and demand changes or demand changes alone: it is the same problem.

          As such , in absence of a massive

        • Nuclear is completely inflexible and can't respond to demand. Demand changes all the time. Base load is a myth. Solar, wind batteries are the modern grid with perfect response to demand.

    • They like to say millions will die because of global warming, but the risk of an accidental reactor accident that can be easily contained is too risky. Millions die vs unlikely possibility of a reactor accident. I think if you truly feel millions of lives are at stake, nuclear is the way to go.
      • Chernobyl is supposed to have caused about 2 million deaths, over the last 35 - 40 years.
        And that are numbers from Russian scientists, not from Greenpeace.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by jeff4747 ( 256583 )

      How about we build some nuclear fission power plants instead of keep making news reports about global warming?

      Because:

      1: It takes about 15-20 years to go from a completed design with all approvals to a completed nuclear power plant. Note that this is all the reactors running at normal load, not the beginning of testing the new reactor. Also note that getting rid of those evil commie government regulations won't shorten that timeline, since it's after all approvals. This is also actual construction time, not the 5-year estimate that every plant starts with and then completely blows through.

      2: There are two compan

      • For example, any electrician can learn to install photovoltaic solar in a day...if he reads slowly.

        That's not helpful if there's not enough solar PV panels being built. Even then real sunny places like UAE and Indonesia are planning on nuclear fission power because they don't have enough land for solar power to meet their energy needs. This also applies to Japan, South Korea, Hawaii, and likely every nation in Europe. There is not enough land for solar power, not enough land for windmills, and if they build offshore windmills then they are spending more money than they would for nuclear fission.

        Any na

        • That's not helpful if there's not enough solar PV panels being built

          First, here's the definition of example. [merriam-webster.com] It turns out an example is not a complete list of options.

          Second, the lithography for photovoltaic panels is far easier than the lithography for chips. Building more of those factories is much easier than going from 2 nuclear power plant builders to 1000.

          Even then real sunny places like UAE and Indonesia are planning on nuclear fission power because they don't have enough land for solar power to meet their energy needs.

          Math is something you should probably try to gain some familiarity with. Such as calculating the energy in the sunlight hitting the places you insist can't possibly get enough energy from sunlight.

          If it takes 20 years to build a nuclear power industry then that only means they need to get started right away.

          Ok, that means i

          • Ya got that backwards, champ.

            Says the person that points out an example does not define all sets of options.

            In the UK, Japan, and many many other nations the cost of solar and wind will become higher than that of nuclear fission as land use becomes a problem.

            Math is something you should probably try to gain some familiarity with. Such as calculating the energy in the sunlight hitting the places you insist can't possibly get enough energy from sunlight.

            I did see the math. Perhaps it is theoretically feasible to get enough energy from solar power the realities of land use and the effect that will have on costs make it impractical. If it's not land use that kill solar and wind practicality then it will be raw material needs. If

    • You sound like a parody of an executive. You know, the kind of character that states, in a loud brash faux American accent, "We'll just get two women to have a baby in 4 1/2 months then." The kind of simpleton who believes in simple, monolithic solutions to very complex problems. You should run for president.
      • You didn't point out any errors in my argument, you just don't like my attitude. That's not an argument to do anything differently.

        • OK, how about this: You arguments aren't even wrong. They're so utterly simplistic & useless as to be pointless arguing against. It's not up to me or anyone else to talk you out of your hubris.
  • "Not All Nordics" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rei ( 128717 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @02:31PM (#61556411) Homepage

    It's been an abnormally, annoyingly cold summer here in Iceland. Just happens to be the summer where I have a massive experiment going on on the outdoor cultivation of warm-weather plants with the assistance of soil warming using geothermal wastewater. Soil heating is nice to try to boost growth, but when our daily highs are like 12 degrees, the air is the limiting factor :P

    • Good news! If the prediction that the Gulf Stream will break down are accurate, you'll get the opportunity to get used to cold summers!

  • by quax ( 19371 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:31PM (#61556669)

    If the pandemic shows us anything then it is the awesome ability of many folks to deny medical science and facts.

    As with the pandemic, global warming is a life and death question, and trying to convince the deniers is just a waste of time. Time that we don't have.

    We can no longer afford to cater to them. They will simply have to be ignored.

    • by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:31PM (#61556865)

      If the pandemic shows us anything then it is the awesome ability of many folks to deny medical science and facts.

      As with the pandemic, global warming is a life and death question, and trying to convince the deniers is just a waste of time. Time that we don't have.

      We can no longer afford to cater to them. They will simply have to be ignored.

      So long as these people vote they can't be ignored. What are you going to do? Create a dictatorship?

      I have an idea, present a solution that people can agree to even if they don't agree on the problem. You want people to buy battery electric vehicles? Don't tell them they have to, because if that happens then the government that told them they have to will be replaced in the next election. Tell them how luxurious, sporty, lower cost, and/or convenient a BEV can be.

      The Republicans have been trying to get the Democrats to agree to nuclear fission power for 40 years. That battle was won last summer when the Democrats agreed to put support for nuclear power as a plank in the party platform document. The Democrats changed their mind because public opinion on nuclear power was shifting. The Democrats had to choose, keep fighting Republicans on nuclear power or lose seats to them in the next election.

      In spite of what the Democrats will scream the Republicans are not denying the problem of global warming, they are not seeing it as the immediate problem that we can't wait for nuclear power plants to be built to solve it. It's the Democrats that have been the deniers. They have been fighting for the immediacy of global warming for 40 years trying to get a solution now but had they only agreed with the Republicans decades ago then they'd have been part of the solution far earlier. The Democrats have been fighting the solution for so long that voters are now desperate enough for a solution that they are willing to try nuclear power. Since Democrats caved on this then any time they bring up global warming they just agreed to another nuclear power plant.

      Nuclear fission as a solution cannot be ignored. If the anti-nuclear power voters are not in the minority already then I expect that they will be soon. The anti-nuclear power people can be ignored, they don't have the votes any more.

      I'm not seeing anyone denying global warming. I'm seeing people with greater concerns on their mind. Things like jobs, energy costs, national security, and nuclear fission power can help with those too. Carbon taxes, expensive solar power, BEV "range anxiety" are only going to lose voters. You can't ignore this. You can't ignore nuclear power. Republicans have been supportive of nuclear power for decades, and now the Democrats agree. This is now a solved problem. It happened because Democrats stopped ignoring the science.

      • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

        In spite of what the Democrats will scream the Republicans are not denying the problem of global warming, they are not seeing it as the immediate problem that we can't wait for nuclear power plants to be built to solve it. It's the Democrats that have been the deniers. They have been fighting for the immediacy of global warming for 40 years trying to get a solution now but had they only agreed with the Republicans decades ago then they'd have been part of the solution far earlier. The Democrats have been fighting the solution for so long that voters are now desperate enough for a solution that they are willing to try nuclear power. Since Democrats caved on this then any time they bring up global warming they just agreed to another nuclear power plant.

        I think it is a bit disingenuous to say that the Democrats are the deniers just because they didn't want to go the nuclear route 40 years ago. Guess what, if the Republicans hadn't denied climate change/global warming for the last 40 years we maybe could have solved the problem sooner and not needed to rely on nuclear power to save us now. After 40 years of Republican denial the Democrats now have no choice to see nuclear power as an option because time is running out to wait for non-nuclear options. In oth

      • by quax ( 19371 )

        I'm not seeing anyone denying global warming. I'm seeing people with greater concerns on their mind.

        Lucky you, I've started monitoring alt-right sites to better understand the ugly underbelly of US politics, so I see them a lot.

        But they are fortunately not a majority, which is why we can ignore them in a functioning democracy (albeit the US barely qualifies).

        At any rate, I agree that nuclear is an important component and there's fortunately a rivaled of this sector underway, exploring sub-critical designs.

        • by quax ( 19371 )

          *revival

        • Lucky you, I've started monitoring alt-right sites to better understand the ugly underbelly of US politics, so I see them a lot.

          10% to 20% of the population will agree to anything in a poll because they are ignorant, do not understand the question, or just want to mess with polls. This is not anything close to a mainstream idea. People will want to lower CO2 emissions but not at the expense of their ability to live, work, have children, and so many things we value.

          The Republicans are not defined by the "alt-right", no more than the Democrats are defined by the "alt-left". From what I've seen the "alt-right" and the "alt-left" agr

          • by quax ( 19371 )

            Because it is possible for the reactor to become critical and therefore self sustaining.

            Not if you only have actually sub-critical fuel mass, and drive the reaction via spallation neutrons. You may not like that design, but you cannot claim that it does not exist when there's an entire demonstration reactor in Belgium.

      • change election vote to be compulsory. The proportion of climate change denier between 18-38 year old is relatively low. And they are a massive population much higher in number as the traditionally older voter which have time to go to each election and those older voter are massively denier.
        • change election vote to be compulsory.

          No. People have the right to vote, and the right to not vote.

          The problem is not the denial of the problem, it is a denial of the solution. Democrats were in denial of the solution for over 40 years, thinking we can get to zero carbon energy without nuclear power. We cannot. That changed last summer. Now that Democrats will agree with Republicans on a solution we are on the path to solving the problem.

          What likely changed people's minds on nuclear power was the HBO mini-series on Chernobyl. From that ca

    • Global warming isn't the worst problem facing humanity. That is hyperbole. Growth of dictatorships with tecnological panopticons, disease, amd death remain far worse.

      • by quax ( 19371 )

        I didn't write that is is the worst, but that it is a life and death problem. It also happens to amplify all the others (increase in zoonosis, forced migration, political instability, famine etc.)

    • If the pandemic shows us anything then it is the awesome ability of many folks to deny medical science and facts.

      As with the pandemic, global warming is a life and death question, and trying to convince the deniers is just a waste of time. Time that we don't have.

      We can no longer afford to cater to them. They will simply have to be ignored.

      It turns out that calling people "deniers" doesn't seem to be working very well. It's emotionally satisfying, sure, but it's not getting the job done.

      Might need to go very nuclear in our power generation instead. And figure out large scale carbon sequestration, that kind of thing.

      I mean, if solving the problem is your real goal. If the emotional satisfaction of puffing yourself up and putting others down is your real goal instead, well then, carry on.

      • by quax ( 19371 )

        I really could not care less how deniers feel about the term. It's descriptive, and as I stated I ignore them. Waste of time to engage.

        And yes, nuclear is important, as well as finding ways to get CO2 out of the atmosphere, preferably in a way that makes the most commercial sense. I'd like to see more along these lines:
        https://www.dezeen.com/2021/06... [dezeen.com]

  • by SuperDre ( 982372 ) on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:52PM (#61556725) Homepage
    This has happened before, even hotter back in 1914. So maybe it's just part of natural process. Still, we should do eveything we can to reduce whatever we can.
  • It was as hot over 100 years ago, but, people think "a long time" is 25-50 years. I remember in the 90's when everyone was worried about man made global warming, and in the Nordic area, the retreating ice uncovered an abandoned settlement dating to around 1200-1300. Everyone was goo-goo about all the stuff they discovered. Not once, did anyone say HEY! If it was WARM ENOUGH to have a settlement, that has since been buried in ice for centuries, and the "industrial revolution" was hundreds of years away (w
    • then how did it get that warm? Massive burning of whale blubber?
      You can read that up, e.g. the three so called medieval warms periods. (We actually don't know why/how they happened, so farm in your Nobel Prize by explaining it to us).

      But I guess you are to dumb for that, as you stupid side kick (what a lot of green types blame for global warming). is indicating.

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