Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
United Kingdom Businesses

UK Considers Blocking Nvidia Takeover of ARM Over Security (yahoo.com) 75

According to Bloomberg, the U.K. is considering blocking a takeover of Arm by Nvidia due to potential risks to national security. SoftBank announced plans to sell Arm to U.S. chip company Nvidia last September for more than $40 billion. It's been under investigation and protested ever since. Bloomberg reports: In April, U.K. Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden asked the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) to prepare a report on whether the deal could be deemed anti-competitive, along with a summary of any national security concerns raised by third parties. The assessment, delivered in late July, contains worrying implications for national security and the U.K. is currently inclined to reject the takeover, a person familiar with government discussions said. The U.K. is likely to conduct a deeper review into the merger due to national security issues, a separate person said.

No final decision has been taken, and the U.K. could still approve the deal alongside certain conditions, the people added. Dowden is set to decide on whether the merger needs further examination by the U.K.'s competition authorities. "We continue to work through the regulatory process with the U.K. government," said an Nvidia spokesperson in a statement. "We look forward to their questions and expect to resolve any issues they may have."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

UK Considers Blocking Nvidia Takeover of ARM Over Security

Comments Filter:
  • Do it. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CaptainLugnuts ( 2594663 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @08:33PM (#61653621)
    nVidia has been a shit company forever.
    • Explaining why no one owns their products. ;-)

      • Re:Do it. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by aergern ( 127031 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @08:52PM (#61653667)

        People kept using Windows and Microsoft has always been pretty much a shit company. Being backed into a corner doesn't mean nvidia isn't a shit company. Until recently AMD couldn't compete. Now, they can.

        • Well, if Windows was shit, we wouldn't use it. Of course, I'm taking that to mean, "doesn't work or is otherwise incapable of performing needed functions", rather than, "I don't like the company that makes it".
          • "doesn't work or is otherwise incapable of performing needed functions"

            As a security professional, I've built an entire (quite lucrative) career on this concept as it relates to microsoft products.

  • Precedents... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hoofie ( 201045 ) <(mickey) (at) (mouse.com)> on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:01PM (#61653683)

    The UK is starting to look very carefully at who owns what. A company called Sheffield Forgemasters has been bought out by the Government as it was about to go bust. It also just happens to be the only company in the UK capable of making certain large metal components for military and power station nuclear reactors.

    • by hoofie ( 201045 )

      I should have pointed out that it only cost the Government a couple of million dollars which is absolutely nothing compared to the Sovereign capability it represents.

    • I realize that this is almost certainly an outlier, if not an outright “No”, but does anyone know if [basic economic considerations notwithstanding] the UK’s divorce from the EU might make a difference here?

      From what I’ve read, one of the things that EU member nations are not allowed to do is negotiate their own trade deals, for example. (This, apparently, helps to explain why the UK did such a crap job of negotiating their post-Brexit deal with the EU - because they had terminate
      • Re:EU Angle (Score:5, Interesting)

        by gtall ( 79522 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @03:35AM (#61654387)

        "helps to explain why the UK did such a crap job of negotiating their post-Brexit deal with the EU - because they had terminated all their trade negotiators and gutted those government departments, because the EU prohibited them from striking their own agreements). "

        I doubt this. My take is that Brexit was and is a stupid idea and there was no getting a "better" deal for Britain. Any deal to leave the EU would leave Britain's panties exposed. Now they will have to duplicate all the regulatory mechanisms the EU used to provide. It has also made Scottish independence more likely since Scotland wanted to remain in the EU. Britain now has a border problem with N. Ireland that they didn't have before making reunification with Ireland increasingly possible.

        In addition, any trade deals Britain tries to set up will have them dealing with a weak hand since they won't be EU trade deals. Britain is simply too small to compete effectively with big countries and big economic blocs.

        • by ytene ( 4376651 )
          I appreciate that you find that difficult to believe, but it was by design.

          See here [civilserviceworld.com], or here. [ft.com]

          The issue was "by design" because when the UK was a member of the EU, the UK was prohibited from arranging direct trade deals with non-EU nations by EU treaty - literally prohibited from doing bespoke deals. Come the UK's exit, the EU chose to enforce this particular agreement "up to the line" - in other words even though the UK gave the EU notice of exit and all the other plans were put in place, the EU enfor
          • Re:EU Angle (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @06:53AM (#61654763)

            This is all based on the word of renowned liar Oliver Letwin. I'd say you should take it with a pinch of salt, but for a slug like him I'd recommend a mountain of it.

            The UK was not prohibited from doing bespoke trade deals. In fact many were negotiated and existed happily during the UK's EU membership.

            To your observations:

            1) You understand it wrong. The conservative party feared having its anti-EU support eaten by UKIP. So they called a referendum to placate this group. That backfired tremendously. This is the reason we have Brexit. Nothing to do with UK-EU negotiations or refusal to address concerns, that's a misdirection. It was a political miscalculation.

            2) This is somewhat true, though if you consider their aim to be the enrichment of their donors and friends, they've been wildly successful. It's only if you are under the misapprehension that they are trying to act in the interest of the country that they appear incompetent. Viewed as a cabal attempting to extract wealth, they are incredibly efficient.

        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          The UK is the 5th largest national economy in the world out of nearly 200, they are not "too small" by any stretch.
          They also have close ties to a large number of other countries especially their former colonies and the commonwealth nations, as well as the advantage of natively speaking the language of international business and the internet.

          Trade deals as a bloc can also be more difficult. The EU is a large and diverse bloc with many competing interests, whereas the UK is a small and largely homogenous coun

          • Most agricultural products are zero tariff in the EU, as deals were struck. The UK has largely carried this over. It hasn't got any cheaper. Food from Spain in the UK probably has.
        • Why would they need to replicate the EU's regulatory mechanisms when they always had their own? In that respect, they're just reclaiming rule-making authority they already had, and as I recall the actual mechanisms (agencies) were in place before, during and after the UK's EU membership.
          • The UK relied on EU regulatory machinery for all manner of things. This it has to replicate at significant cost after Brexit, such as the equivalent of the CE mark, medicines regulation, and so on. In the latter case, the EU agency was actually based in the UK.
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Since the 80s Britain has been selling stuff off cheap. All the nationalised industries like the Post Office and railways were first, but then they started selling private businesses to foreign companies. The owners and shareholders walk away with a big bonus, the company itself goes into decline in most cases.

        Being outside the EU doesn't make any difference in legal terms, at least not yet as all the rules as still in place in British law. In the longer term the UK might try to diverge with say massive sta

    • But why would an American company buying one currently owned by a Japanese bank be a security issue?
  • Having a UK company owned by a Japanese investment company is fine, but selling it to a US-owned company is a national security risk. Makes sense to me. (no sarcasm intended)
    • Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kitkoan ( 1719118 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:44PM (#61653805)
      The issue is, Japan has never banned a foreign nation from using Japanese technology.

      Trump on the other hand did (Xiaomi), which has spooked the world that if the US president can suddenly (and possibly on a whim) block other nations from access to US technology, then how trust worthy can they be in the future? ARM isn't something that many nations feel should be risked to be used as a bargaining chip by either the current or future president.

      So yes, selling it to a US-owned company is a huge national security risk.
      • To China, yes, it's a question of national security. Which is why they're diversifying with RISC-V, LoongArch and Zhaoxin to be fabbed internally at mainland Chinese SMIC should Taiwan's TSMC ever get sanctioned.

        To Britain though?

        Allies being allies, the UK shares all its spook-related security with Canada, New Zealand, USA and Australia. Like it or lump it, *we* are joined at the hip.

        • Britain has been on the receiving end of US sanctions and limitations several times since WW2, so the British government does like to keep its options open...

          • Sure but one of the key planks of Brexit, allegedly, was to regain its sovereignty and negotiate agreements under its own terms.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by gtall ( 79522 )

            Yes, it will keep its options open. I suspect you mean that now if the U.S. gets pissy with British companies, they have diddley-squat to back them up. Before, they had the EU behind them. Now they are free to get nailed in the teeth should another president like the former alleged president decide to pick up the mantel of stupidity and continue his wreaking havoc on U.S. foreign relations.

            • Gosh you're smart. Not everyone would realize that diplomacy is about giving the other side whatever they want. Some people actually think negotiations are for advancing or protecting their own interests, as if they don't even know that everyone in the world is willing to give up what's important to them to make someone else happy.

              Some people would look at how the US immediately started hammering out a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK and point to it as proof that you're not only wrong, but s

      • Japan has restricted exports to South Korea of three chemicals that are being used for making semiconductors and display screens.
      • Wait, the US isn't trustworthy because it might ban sales to genocidal, organ-stealing, Covid-spreading slavers? How about CHINA isn't trustworthy? China is a threat to the US, the UK and the West as-whole. It is a brutal dictatorship that commits grotesque crimes against humanity every day and doesn't care. Cutting them off from advanced technology is in the national security interests of every Western nation, including the UK.

        If you can't tell the difference between a global security threat (China)

    • Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Informative)

      by Junta ( 36770 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @06:57AM (#61654771)

      I think it's a bit of a stretch to mask the true motivation (nVidia is a strong tech brand that will overshadow the most relevant UK tech brand, whereas SoftBank would leave the brand identity intact).

      However, to try to justify a 'security' argument, another difference is that SoftBank would leave the business model intact and allow all sorts of companies to license the tech, meaning suppliers relevant to UK security can source from ARM without being ARM. On the flipside, for example, nVidia acquired Cumulus, a network switch OS expressly designed to work on multiple vendor switches, and the first major release after nVidia sealed the deal? Only supports nVidia switches, despite those switches (Mellanox) being a minority of Cumulus revenue. They immediately shut down all third-party switch support at their earliest chance. So if nVidia gets ARM, there may not be a third-party license opportunity for ARMv10.

      • Licensing isn't a national security issue, it's a very narrow economic issue. The other concerns you list can be dealt with by having the relevant regulatory agency impose conditions on the deal.

        The idea of it being a security issue is just so frikkin absurd. The US and UK are the two closest allies on the planet and have been for almost two centuries.

        • by Junta ( 36770 )

          I was involved in a different national security review, and evidently one consideration is could critical government agencies and their immediate suppliers deal with the acquired company in question being unavailable to them (i.e. is the company in question a sole supplier in any particular context).

          Security isn't just about 'could this supplied surveil us' but 'could this supplier cripple us through withholding product' too. The likelihood of whether that could come to pass is part of the equation (e.g. S

    • The difference is SoftBank so opportunity to grow and make money off ARM. ARM wouldnâ(TM)t be diluted in their relationship.

      On the other hand Nvidia risks diluting ARM or shutting down any U.K. based presence, since it could conflict with what is happening else where in the company. Additionally there is a potential conflict of interest where the competition are also customers, so depending on current leadership could result in cutting off access to ARM designs.

  • Large corporations just end up abusing their power
    • ARM has 8.5k employees, and NVIDIA has 13.7k. I think they're both large corporations. Which one should I assume you are trying to defend?

  • by Burdell ( 228580 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:07PM (#61653711)

    Seeing as ARM Holdings was bought by Softbank, a Japanese investment company, 5 years ago. Are they going to make Softbank sell ARM to somebody in the UK if they block Nvidia from buying it?

    • China. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:23PM (#61653757) Journal

      My supposition is this is Chinese ARM twisting ... [cnbc.com] ARM under NVDIA (American) has technology export bans...

      Other related ongoing aspects have even been mentioned on /. before. [slashdot.org]

      • MOD UP!! thanks for this... very interesting
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        If ARM ever became subject to US export restrictions it would be the end of them. They already moved some R&D out of their US facility to make sure it couldn't be touched.

        Even just the possibility of this happening damages ARM, as it pushes China to develop and promote alternatives even faster.

        • It may cut into ARM's profits, but it would promote the UK's economic and national security interests as those are in direct opposition to China's. To say that letting a US company buy something currently owned by a Japanese company is a threat to the UK's security is absurd. Japan is a friend, but the US and UK are family. Our security interests have been almost perfectly aligned since we made up after paddling your butts in the War of 1812.

          And let China develop their own shit for a change. The more

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            The UK's economic interests are somewhat aligned with China's because China has been a major investor in the UK. For example the new nuclear money pit Hinkey Point C is partly funded by the Chinese, and believe me they tried every other source of cash first but nobody wanted to touch it.

      • Oh, interesting!!

        That would also mean there are some very corrupt UK officials willing to pretend that a threat to China is actually a threat to the UK.

        The security argument simply doesn't work when the company already has a foreign owner, and one outside the Anglophone family. And if you're right, it's an insane argument as China's security and economy interests run counter to those of the UK. Hurting China's security and economy is good for the UK and her former citizens in Hong Kong.

    • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

      Because that sale came with all sorts of legal caveats as to what Softbank could do with it. Effectively Softbank would forfeit ownership if they sold it to NVIDIA without UK government approval.

  • I'm not a business guru but how is it that the UK can stop them if belongs to a company in Japan? I mean, if there are physical assets in the U.K. then I could understand the U.K. blocking the acquisition of those assets but if Nvidia wants it bad enough, couldn't they still buy it without those assets?

    BTW, the UK really shot itself in the foot with Brexit.

    • Most of the assets are in the UK. Without those, the company is pretty much useless.

      • When 99% of assets summer to be IP, this can be changed immediately ;-)
        • by Junta ( 36770 )

          If you dumped ARM on a brand new engineering team that involved none of the UK engineers currently responsible, then it very likely that they would be unable to make progress for a long time...

          Continuity of experience is a critical asset for this sort of IP, even ignoring everything else.

          • If you dumped ARM on a brand new engineering team that involved none of the UK engineers currently responsible, then it very likely that they would be unable to make progress for a long time...

            Alternatively, make offers to the lead engineers that can explain everything for jobs that pay $$$ in another country and you could recover much faster. It's not efficient but it's entirely doable.

    • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

      Because the original sale to Softbank came with a whole bunch of UK government imposed restrictions on what they can do. They can't just sell the company to anyone they need UK government approval or they effectively forfeit ownership. It helps that the assets are in the UK too.

  • by Lab Rat Jason ( 2495638 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:01PM (#61653825)

    I thought I read somewhere that Softbank was also considering spinning it off as a separate company. I can't remember if that was by IPO or by just issuing shares and putting them on the market... but I'd actually love to own a piece of ARM. Maybe that's the best way to go...

  • Awesome news! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RealNeoMorpheus ( 6713808 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:06PM (#61653837)

    Nvidia has proven over and over that they will screw anyone and everyone, regardless of being a partner or a customer.

    They have found some kind of loophole to screw the whole industry if allowed to purchase ARM.

    Proof?

    Simple, they have no financial reasons to spend that much money to be able to make their own ARM cpus.

    ROI would be super slow since ARM itself generates less than 5 $ billions a year.

    For way less, they can obtain a proper architectural license and go wild.

    But no, the intention is to pull some of their dirty tactics and fuck the whole industry.

    This needs to be blocked, period.

    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      Prime example, Cumulus was a company specializing in an OS for third-party ethernet switches.

      nVidia acquired them and a relatively minor ethernet switch player (Mellanox) and the very next release *only* supports nVidia switches. nVidia gave up the third party switch revenue to make Cumulus exclusive to their newly acquired hardware.

      Owning ARM doesn't help them produce ARM architecture products, as you say, but it does let them deny licensing to others.

      So the question is whether nVidia wants to secure exclu

  • Buy the dip.

  • Calling it National security is bs. Unless of course your government was strong-arming the company for backdoors (pun not intended) and selling it to a different country may expose that...

    The narrative is that these are just a bunch of toy chips right. No backdoors or spying right. So then that's not an impact to National Security if they sell it.

    Unless of course that's all lies.

  • Why is the just treating us like China?
  • ...There will be a delay in the proposed takeover of ARM until the appropriate bribes have been paid.

  • How could it be a national risk to security as it's already owned by a non UK company. Not that I object to it NOT being sold to Nvidia. But if Nvidia can't buy it due to UK security concerns, then NO US company can buy it, so not Intel, not Apple, not Microsoft, not Qualcomm or whichever US company.
    Personally I would laugh my ass off if a Chinese consortium would be able to buy it.

  • Right now, the Arm Consortium is owned by a Japanese company. If that wasn't a national security concern (Japan is an ally of the US and UK), how the hell is there a concern about an American company buying it? The UK and Japan are allies. The US and UK are f'ing FAMILY!
    • Given the current political situation in the United States (and I mean that much more broadly than Trump/Biden, Democrat/Republican), I wouldn't trust a US company one bit more than I'd trust a Russian or Chinese one. Japan is far from perfect, but its empire-building days are past, and with that passing, so, too, its penchant for international thuggery on the world stage.

  • Soliciting bribes, more like.
  • The UK continues drifting toward an authoritarian state. Soon to be the United Kingdom of England and - maybe - Wales.
  • .. why does UK think letting ARM be owned by an American company is more dangerous, from a security perspective, than a Japanese one (which it is now)?
    Unless Jensen being Asian makes them worried - but again,,,
    You'd think the UK govt would have been more interested in stopping the original ARM in UK_>Softbank deal.

As you will see, I told them, in no uncertain terms, to see Figure one. -- Dave "First Strike" Pare

Working...