Brown University Physics Student Manfred Steiner Earns Ph.D. at Age 89 (brown.edu) 54
Brown University: At 89-years-old Manfred Steiner is finally what he always wanted to be: a physicist. On September 15, 2021, Steiner successfully defended his Ph.D. dissertation, "Corrections to the Geometrical Interpretation of Bosonization" in Brown University's Department of Physics with Professor Brad Marston serving as his adviser and Professors James Valles and Antal Jevicki serving as readers. "It's an old dream that starts in my childhood," says Steiner, "I always wanted to become a physicist." To say that Steiner's path to a Ph.D. in physics was not a traditional one would be an understatement. As a young man, Steiner fled the chaos of his birthplace of Vienna as World War II ended and eventually made his way to the United States. Steiner says, "I knew physics was my true passion by the time I graduated high school. But after the war, my uncle and my mother advised me to take up medicine because it would be a better choice in these turbulent after-war years."
Although he excelled at and loved physics, Steiner followed his family's advice. He says, "my uncle was a physician, an ear, nose and throat specialist, and he had taught in the United States for a while. He taught plastic surgery -- showing people how to make noses smaller or how to straighten them out. My family's advice was that medicine was the best path for me. So I reconciled myself, 'they are older and wiser,' and I followed their advice." Steiner went on to earn a medical doctorate in 1955 from the University of Vienna and soon after his graduation he made his way to Washington, D.C. where he finished his initial training in internal medicine. He next began a traineeship in hematology at Tufts University under Dr. William Damashek, who the American Society of Hematology describes as "the preeminent American clinical hematologist of his time." The traineeship included a three-year training in biology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and he earned a Ph.D. in biochemistry there in 1967.
Although he excelled at and loved physics, Steiner followed his family's advice. He says, "my uncle was a physician, an ear, nose and throat specialist, and he had taught in the United States for a while. He taught plastic surgery -- showing people how to make noses smaller or how to straighten them out. My family's advice was that medicine was the best path for me. So I reconciled myself, 'they are older and wiser,' and I followed their advice." Steiner went on to earn a medical doctorate in 1955 from the University of Vienna and soon after his graduation he made his way to Washington, D.C. where he finished his initial training in internal medicine. He next began a traineeship in hematology at Tufts University under Dr. William Damashek, who the American Society of Hematology describes as "the preeminent American clinical hematologist of his time." The traineeship included a three-year training in biology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and he earned a Ph.D. in biochemistry there in 1967.
Bravo (Score:5, Interesting)
More people should pursue doctorates later in their lives. This is obviously an extreme case, but in my own observations and experience, people who go through grad school in their 30s and 40s do better work than those who jump in right out of college.
A former boss of mine got his phd after many years in the military and working as a research engineer. His doctorate went that much more smoothly because he already knew how to work and what was worth working on. This is in contrast to many young grad students I've encountered who at age 22 with no work experience, are suddenly expected to both work independently and choose a research topic and become experts in that area before they can rent a car without having to pay extra.
In the Soviet system, and in the Japanese model, you wouldn't even be in contention for a doctorate until you've worked in industry for a while. The Soviet system was more extreme in that they would only hand out doctorates to full professors (it was the equivalent of the Habilitation in Germany and France). Everyone else was merely a "candidate."
The American model would improve by moving the needle that way a few ticks. If I were the god-king of American research universities, my first decree would be that no doctoral program would admit a student under the age of 30.
Re:Bravo (Score:5, Insightful)
Its also pretty smart in terms of quality of life in the twilight years. My Grandfather was a scientist all his life, computing pioneer, industrial chemist, all of that. But when he retired he just sort of melted into the couch and didnt do much and 6-7 years later was gone. I had told him, go back to university, study something or research something , whatever. I kind of feel like he might still be with us if he did.
Its certainly better for cognitive health. Keepign the mind active keeps lots of blood and glucose circulating, its exercising a muscle, and I suspect it might be a good salve against the low level dementia (Not the serious alzheimers type stuff) that tends to crop up later, where the memory starts going and little confusions set it.
Re:Bravo (Score:4, Informative)
Funnily, when i was a Ph.D. candidate, the rule for my stipend was that i couldn't be aged more than 28. Quite moronic. It has recently been changed to no more than X years after graduation. The rule being 3 for pure science and 7 for engineering. I was in Belgium then.
Anyway. Cute story. Shows that the mind can stay nimble even at great ages. If you read TFA, you will see he wasn't given an easy subject.
I can understand his parents since often physicists aren't very well treated by the job market. It is a demanding degree that usually doesn't lead to well paying jobs. Or interesting ones. It is a bit better now.
Re: Bravo (Score:3)
My grandmother was an engineer. But she was dead set on pestering me into becoming a doctor. She remembered her elders being respected physicians and before communism, they were prosperous people. She was an engineer under the soviet system, and that meant getting posted in the ass end of Siberia for several years after she finished her studies.
I suspect there were similar cultural pressures and perceptions at play in Vienna in the 40s. Medicine is and was an ancient and respected profession, but science an
Re: (Score:3)
Some of this is possibly due to not wanting to foster those that seem to interminably be stuck forever never graduating. Sometimes professors are exploiting the cheap labor, sometimes the student just isn't making progress for academic reasons, and so forth. So focus most on getting the degree rather than having a low pay job. When I started grad school the department really was trying to crack down on this and get some of those on the 6th or 7th year out the door and on their way.
Re: (Score:2)
I should have been more specific: The rule about age was for entering a Ph.D. Once started you had 4 years. No more, no less. One evaluation after 2 years, as it was formally two grants. But in reality the mid-term evaluation was a formality. In engineering and science in my country, Ph.D. were generally well managed and almost everyone graduated.
Ph.D's in math were a bit more dangerous.
There was also the possibility to do one part time during 6 years, as an assistant. Half time teaching half time doing sci
Re: Bravo (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously? Then many great Nobel prize winning physicists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr, Yukawa would have had to wait? They published their Nobel worthy work in their 20s after or during their PhD.
In fact many, if not a majority, of Nobel prizes have been awarded for work people did in their 20s.
Re: Bravo (Score:3)
Yeah and Galois didn't even have a doctorate, died in a duel at 22, and changed mathematics with his scribblings from just before the duel.
What's your point?
Einstein's annus mirabilis happened when he was out of academia and working as a patent examiner.
Feynman's nobel prize was for work he did after his time working on the bomb. His dissertation that he wrote at age 24 was just some dabbling to get in the mood for figuring out QED and one could argue that his computational approach to quantum physics was m
Re: Bravo (Score:2)
False. Annus Mirabilis occurred when he was getting his PhD .. 1905 right? Look it up.
Re: (Score:2)
Academia as a factory where in come warm bodies and out come world-class researchers who revolutionize their fields is and always has been a lie that was predicated on a small number of outliers. Who would have done just fine (and perhaps would have done even better work) with a short detour in the real world.
Outliers? Got any proof of that? Because even Galois had a degree in mathematics. Einstein was wrapping up his PhD in 1905 when he wrote those papers. In fact he learned a lot from his professor, Minkowski. And by the way, Feynman is NOT an example in your favor, he quickly ditched the Manhattan project to go be a professor at Cornell .. besides how would he even have worked on the Manhattan project without his PhD?
So, which great scientific discoveries in modern times were by someone without an academic ba
Re: Bravo (Score:2)
Bzzt. Not all PhDs even work on their research topics after defending, and very few make discoveries of any import. That vast majority would benefit from a later start.
Re: (Score:2)
Any proof of that? Evidence? Any statistics? You are speculating based on nothing and a few cherry picked examples. Do you have examples of high achievers who started their PhD after age 30?
Re: Bravo (Score:2)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
In fact many, if not a majority, of Nobel prizes have been awarded for work people did in their 20s.
"If you haven' done something great before 30, you'll never do anything great"
I heard that all the time growing up. And I have to admit, the movers and shakers mostly seem to have made their mark before 30. There's the scientists you listed, but also Steve Jobs and other tech titans all seem to have made their names before age 30. I'm constantly surprised at reading about the number of business magnates that made their empires before 30 as well. There are men like Dwight Eisenhower who made his historic con
Re: (Score:2)
In fact many, if not a majority, of Nobel prizes have been awarded for work people did in their 20s.
"If you haven' done something great before 30, you'll never do anything great"
I heard that all the time growing up. And I have to admit, the movers and shakers mostly seem to have made their mark before 30. There's the scientists you listed, but also Steve Jobs and other tech titans all seem to have made their names before age 30. I'm constantly surprised at reading about the number of business magnates that made their empires before 30 as well. There are men like Dwight Eisenhower who made his historic contributions at an older age, but you could argue that it was because of the circumstances of history. In Eisenhower's case, he was never a star in the US Army before WWII the way MacArthur and Patton were.
In the case of Eisenhower and other military greats - you're not making it into a position before you're older. Being the best in your position just makes you first in line for the next step, you don't automatically get to skip a lot of ranks. Also, having a war you can make a difference in limits the possibilities, both in time and position.
Re: (Score:2)
Doing this is retirement is not a bad move either. I quit grad school because I just got fed up with the starvation wages, and the my academic path was souring on me and the thought of spending even more years while I pick a different subject was daunting. I went back to school after 3 years working, which meant that I was now quitting in my early thirties with literally nothing in the bank.
I did like grad school though. getting to work on more esoteric things without a boss screaming about how it had no
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Good thing you aren't (a god-king)
I went straight from my BSc to PhD (skippped MSc), and did not have any major issues with either teaching or research work.
Re: Bravo (Score:2)
You're in the happy minority. I have met exactly one current or former grad student who wasn't trash talking his or her advisor as an out-of-touch dilettante. The rest (n > 20) did nothing but if they perceived me to be a peer with whom they might commiserate.
Re: (Score:2)
people who go through grad school in their 30s and 40s do better work than those who jump in right out of college.
I don't see how they do it. PhD stipend is pretty minimal. It is a great step up when you go from paying tuition to getting a small stipend instead. But in your 30s and 40s, after having had an actual salary, how do you go down to a tiny stipend?
For example, Dept. of Education has a fellowship program (Graduate Assistance in Areas of National Need/GAANN), which is based on your "need"/FAFSA. So PhD students who had a job previously get a need-based computation of $10K-$15K/year (vs up-to $34K/year stipe
Re: Bravo (Score:2)
Some are sponsored by their employers. Others by their gainfully employed spouses. Some have savings. Others don't mind the spartan life.
Oh yes (Score:5, Funny)
"Brown University Physics Student Manfred Steiner Earns Ph.D. at Age 89 "
You wouldn't have mentioned his color if he was white. This is the Woke shit that Trump warned us about.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yup... the negative moderation is gone.
Which is too bad, to be honest... not because I think that the remark isn't funny or deserves to be modded as such, but the fact that it got modded to minus 1 earlier really just made the whole thing that much funnier, in light of what he had actually said. The irony was nothing less than perfect.
Re: (Score:2)
It's still there. It's just that 6+ people voted it funny, so the -1 has been cancelled out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Oh yes (Score:1)
I understand (Score:3)
I think he has another year and he'll have his loans paid off. It wasn't easy being a grad student all these years.
Lol. That's one way (Score:2)
to not have to pay your student loans.
Hope for me yet... (Score:2)
Guy makes me look like a piker. At 59, I'm just finishing my final coursework for my masters in law. He gives me something to look forward to.
Shouldn't this say say something like (Score:2)
"Earns Second PH.D"?
He had his first in 1967.
Re: (Score:2)
"Earns Second PH.D"?
No, second doctorate but first PhD.
The 1955 doctorate was a MD.
Oops [Re:Shouldn't this say say something like] (Score:2)
"Earns Second PH.D"?
No, second doctorate but first PhD. The 1955 doctorate was a MD.
Oops, my bad-- Somehow I missed the sentence at the very end of the article. I read too fast. This is his third doctorate, and (as you said) second Ph.D.
Stories like this are inspiring. (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Not quite; Brian May studied maths and physics at the usual age, and started his doctorate in astrophysics in 1974; he then became a rock star, and only finished his these in 2007. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]) Still a good story, but not one of someone starting a degree in later life, more proof that nerds can rock!
3 Degrees (Score:1)
That is three different doctorate degrees. MD, PhD Biology, PhD Physics.
Granted, two of them are related, and all three are science. Still Very Impressive .
Re: (Score:3)
"That is three different doctorate degrees. MD, PhD Biology, PhD Physics."
In German speaking countries he'd be addressed as Herr Doktor Doktor Doktor Steiner.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, :P
but I never saw a web page where you could enter more than one "Doktor" as salutation
Re: 3 Degrees (Score:1)
If you can do one, you can do two (or three). Most people don't because there's no return on investment. I sometimes joke if I can't find a job, I'll just go back for another degree. Who would be more qualified than someone who has already been through the process and had publications and a dissertation?
Advice (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Almost certainly, if you took the advice as something to follow rather than something to think about. Advice can be extremely helpful if not followed blindly.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Excellent choice.I will tell you, I listened to the advice to not mine Bitcoin in the early days when everyone was doing it on their CPU, and I did not think about it first. I just followed.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with 'thinking about it yourself' is that I usually had no clue about said topic, and, especially pre-public Internet, had no idea how to learn what I needed to know, assuming I even could do so.
He was already a physicist (Score:4, Insightful)
"At 89-years-old Manfred Steiner is finally what he always wanted to be: a physicist."
You don't magically become a physicist or scientist when you earn your PhD. That notion is just gatekeeping nonsense. There are numerous people working as physicists, chemists, biologists, etc without a doctorate. You just need to be working in the domain and practicing the scientific method.
Old guys rule (Score:2)
don't write off septuagenarians and octogenarians.
Finally the man! (Score:2)
Where it doesn't matter if you know the difference between 'physician' and 'physicist'.
The World's Oldest Neurosurgeon just turned 100 !! (Score:1)