The End of 'Click To Subscribe, Call To Cancel'? One of the News Industry's Favorite Retention Tactics is Illegal, FTC Says (niemanlab.org) 85
An anonymous reader shares a report: Discovering they had to get on the phone to cancel a subscription they signed up for online rankled several respondents in our survey looking at why people canceled their news subscriptions. The reaction to the call-to-cancel policy ranged from "an annoyance" and "ridiculous" to "shady" and "oppressive." Publishers tend to think of this as "retention." A study of 526 news organizations in the United States found that only 41% make it easy for people to cancel subscriptions online, and more than half trained customer service reps in tactics to dissuade customers who call to unsubscribe. The Federal Trade Commission, meanwhile, recently made it clear that it sees the practice as 1) one of several "dark patterns that trick or trap consumers into subscriptions" and 2) straight-up illegal. The FTC vowed to ramp up enforcement on companies that fail to provide an "easy and simple" cancellation process, including an option that's "at least as easy" as the one to subscribe. Translation? If you can subscribe online, you should be able to cancel your subscription online.
Great. Now the next one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great. Now the next one (Score:5, Insightful)
and 2) probably result in a ton of annoying phone calls I don't want.
Along with this, I wouldn't be surprised if, in the terms of subscription, they use a trick where it states that you need to explicitly cancel with them, rather than, say, let the subscription lapse due to non-payment (by cancelling the CC, for example), otherwise they'll expect you to still pay after auto-renew, and send it to collections if you don't (due to the CC being cancelled/expired)
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Along with this, I wouldn't be surprised if, in the terms of subscription, they use a trick where it states that you need to explicitly cancel with them, rather than, say, let the subscription lapse due to non-payment (by cancelling the CC, for example), otherwise they'll expect you to still pay after auto-renew, and send it to collections if you don't (due to the CC being cancelled/expired)
I ran into this situation a few years ago: purchased a one year subscription to a service, wasn't keen on renewing it, so when the card expired, I didn't think anything of it...until I was repeatedly emailed and phoned by the company with pleas to update my payment method so they could "re-enable" my subscription. I politely declined, noting that I didn't want to continue. Company turned my account over to collections. I explained to the collections agent that I wouldn't be forced into paying for service
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I've even thought about using temporary credit card #'s to subscribe
Regardless of the hassle, that's something everybody should do to protect their main account. It is worth the trouble
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My bank had provided a service were you can create a bank card with a max money limit. I used it whenever I had to buy something with bank card. Sadly they ended the service. The service was advertised as to prevent steeling of bank card and draining it and prevent sites from taking more money than they were entitled to. It was a damn good free service. Wish they didn't close it down.
What I did notice when using that service was that some sites flagged and prevented those generated bank cards from working w
Re: Great. Now the next one (Score:2)
Yup I had the same thing happen. Virtual card numbers were really convenient as you could make them for any amount/limit and any expiry date. But bank stopped it.
Never managed to find any other thing with equivalent features.
It's high time all consumer complaints are tagged onto every credit bureau member co's account and any company/ba I with more than 5-10% people complaining should be thrown out, at least temporarily till they bring complaints down.
Makes no sense to have access for fraudulent cos or emp
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The only alternative then is to open a second account, with a different bank if you have to, under a different name (at least on the card) would be even better. Do anything you can to keep your real data private. Paypal adds a layer of obfuscation too.
Re: Great. Now outlaw mandatory "autopay" (Score:3)
Can we also prohibit service providers from refusing to sign you up for a service unless you agree to their "autopay" plan?
The last thing I want is for some financial vampire to get their fangs into my cash arteries to feed at will.
Re: Great. Now outlaw mandatory "autopay" (Score:4, Interesting)
Can we also prohibit service providers from refusing to sign you up for a service unless you agree to their "autopay" plan?
And eliminate "penalties" for not using auto-pay; a local gym chain California Family Fitness, charges $20 per month extra if you don't setup auto-pay.
Re: Great. Now outlaw mandatory "autopay" (Score:2)
Re:Great. Now the next one (Score:4, Informative)
It's actually pretty easy to make disposable credit card numbers now. The website for my CC allows you to generate and destroy "virtual CC numbers" at will... so yours probably has that option too. If you don't want them to call you then just give their website (555)555-5555 for your phone number when you sign up. For some reason websites never reject the reserved 555 area code.
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For some reason websites never reject the reserved 555 area code.
"Yet".
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" just give their website (555)555-5555 for your phone number "
I've used a voip number that goes straight to voicemail in the past.
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Re:Great. Now the next one (Score:4, Interesting)
The hack I use, which sucks because it gives Amazon more power, is to subscribe through Amazon. They give you one screen to see all your magazine subscriptions and you can renew, cancel, pause, or turn auto renew on/off with a click.
There are several magazines that I might take for a year, then take a break for a year or two and then resubscribe and this makes it simple (you can see your old subscriptions too and "restart" one very easily.
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Why aren't temporary CC#s a thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've even thought about using temporary credit card #'s to subscribe so that they can't do that, but that's 1) too much hassle, and 2) probably result in a ton of annoying phone calls I don't want.
Isn't it weird that our default method of payment relies on a vendor's good faith not to abuse it? OK, I want to pay for a year's worth of service, now the vendor is authorized to take as much money as they want from me and it's up to me to dispute it if they violate our agreement?
I was a member of a gym and they closed down. They kept billing my credit card, even though their location closed 6 months earlier. I had to call 3x to get them to stop. Each time they said, "OK, sorry about that, are you sure you don't want to go to our location 2 states over?"...I said no, please cancel...and the service rep confirmed the cancellation each time....but hey what do you know?...somehow it didn't take. Gyms are unfortunately famously mafioso-grade scams in the US.
I called my bank and asked to ban all transactions from that company on my card and they said it was impossible. They said once someone has prior auth, they can bill you whatever they want, whenever they want and it's up to you to contact the bank to cancel inappropriate charges...a "ask for forgiveness" instead of "ask for permission" model. I asked to get a new credit card and the bank rep fought hard to have me NOT cancel. They'd rather just deal with fraud than the paperwork with giving me a new expiration date.
With 2FA being the norm for nearly all online accounts, I am really surprised we have nothing similar...a common American means of paying for things where I have to authorize each charge.
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I had one of those. Except their contact address and phone was in the now shut down gym, so I couldn't contact them either. Just kept cancelling their withdrawels from my card, until they gave up after about a year.
Re: Great. Now the next one (Score:2)
I don't find auto renewal much of an issue as long as opting out is a click or two away. But this is a HUGE Fuck You to the New York Times. I wish they'd get fined for having ever done this practice. I don't care that this is no illegal, the NYT will never get a cent from me ever again. Signing up was easy. Cancelling was 45 minutes on the phone.
The death knell (Score:1)
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When I bought my new vehicle in 2018, it came with six months free of XM/Sirius. The signal was so shitty that even driving in my neighborhood it would drop off. At the end of the six months I just didn't bother, but I got phone calls from them for a year afterwards. It was pretty crazy, considering I never actually paid for a subscription to begin with.
XM/Sirius pestering (Score:2)
I got a check from the XM/Sirius class action because they pestered people without consent to accept the trial...
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It's hilarious that Sirius/XM's entire business model is based on people forgetting to cancel the service.
At least they're pretty easy about selling another promo period. I'd set a calendar reminder to repeat before the first full price month, only to eventually decide it wasn't even worth the $5/month I was paying. But I guess 24/7 Elvis Presley is worth something to someone.
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IT is worse than that, I got Serius radio for free with my car for a 90 day trial, then after that they started billing me a lot of money for the service they wanted, I made the mistake because I was able to get them to agree on a Price I figured was reasonable for a year, then the next year they charged me a whole lot more,
Being that I can get Analog Radio for free, Or stream of my Phone 4g or 5g network which I am already paying for service for, I really see no benefit to it, and defiantly at that price.
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Re:The death knell (Score:5, Informative)
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I cancelled by letter mail. They sent me a letter back saying I owed them 2 months. I sent a cheque to cover the amount. Done. Maybe this only works in Canada.
The kicker is, I probably would've kept their service if I didn't have to call in every year to get the "account retention discount". Instead, I subscribe to Spotify and get exactly what I want for less.
The other thing that irked me is that they wanted me to pay an extra amount for internet streaming of the same content I could get on the satellite re
No shit? (Score:1)
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I did want to use privacy.com a couple years back, started registering and they put my account/bankinfo into a "being reviewed state", which apparently I could expedite by linking my facebook account that doesn't exist.
I checked in once a week, then once a month a few times, then just got tired of seeing the "should be approved in a few days."
Disposable cards, disposable emails, disposable phone numbers, I wasn't just trying trying to avoid financial leeches that resist being scraped off I wanted to evade w
Gym Memberships (Score:5, Interesting)
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Can the FTC fix gym membership cancellation too? Last time I had to physically send a letter to get my membership cancelled. Couldn't do it at the gym or online or by phone.
I canceled a gym membership when I moved to a complex that had a small gym. I removed the gym from my credit card when I canceled. A few months later I get a notice that I owed them for another month or it would be sent to collections. I called them and asked where the last month came from. Apparently the contract they had me sign in the beginning guaranteed them a full month after I canceled.
I was like, "Wait, you want me to pay full price for a month during which I can't use your gym?"
They were lik
trying to quit the Gym that an lunk alarm offense (Score:2)
trying to quit the Gym that an lunk alarm offense
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It's Planet Fitness. They want to appeal to regular people who want a non-intimidating place where they can exercise for fitness. They do not want 'gym rats' using the place as a cheap gym.
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I wondered about this. Maybe you can answer. Say you just triggered the lunk alarm every time you went in. Or multiple times. Would they eventually cancel your membership for egregious behavior or something like that?
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One nice thing about COVID-19... the lockdowns led to it being much easier to (permanently) suspend gym memberships!
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As in you threaten them to come to the gym and mention you're not vaccinated and got covid-19 and that you will touch as many equipment as possible when in the gym if they don't cancel immediately?
It'll work short term. Firebombing the place at night and use the unusable burned down gym as the reason to cancel works every time. I half-joke, I was thinking about it when on the phone with the gym.
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"Can the FTC fix gym membership cancellation too? Last time I had to physically send a letter to get my membership cancelled. Couldn't do it at the gym or online or by phone."
This technique has been around for a long time... in 1990 I moved across the country. I went to my gym before I moved and canceled my membership, in person. They continued to bill me (sending the bills to my new address 2,500 miles away), eventually claiming that my cancelation wasn't valid because I hadn't submitted it in writing (I
Should be I can cancel the same way as apply (Score:5, Insightful)
In the case of a gym, if I can apply in person, I should be able to cancel in person.
If you can't allow me to cancel the same way you let me appy, then you seem shady at best, illegal at worse.
Finally (Score:3)
I suppose that newspapers will lose some customers if they make it easier to un-subscribe. But there are other customers, like myself, that they will gain. I've deliberately avoided newspaper subscriptions (even though I *want* to support their industry) because of how hard it was to un-subscribe last time.
A smart news organization would get ahead of the curve on this, offer "one-click cancellation", and advertise that fact heavily as a selling point.
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
And maybe just offer a reasonable price upfront. I don't want a lowball intro price that changes to something I would never pay. If your retention/cancellation group offers me a better price to stay then you are admitting that you've been trying to fuck me and I want nothing to do with you for life.
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Making it hard to unsubscribe doesn't give you happy customers, it gets you angry or lazy customers.
If someone has to jump through hoops to unsubscribe then there's no way they will ever be your customer again in future. If you make it easy then they may return in future as there are many reasons someone might want to cancel a service and resume it again at a later date.
SiriusXM. Get em! (Score:4, Insightful)
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I don't even bother with free trials because they ask for personal datas like payment methods.
Build a wall between support and sales (Score:2)
While we're at it, we need to build a wall between support and sales too. My most recent interaction with the cable company involved up-sell attempts during each call. I was nice to the person on the other line. I've been support, and I knew they were just doing what the bosses told them to do. Up-sells during support are a classic asymmetry of information tactic. I literally didn't have Internet to check and see if it was a good deal. It's also a huge waste of my time. "I want you to roll a truck t
An old strategy with a new wrinkle (Score:5, Informative)
Many companies have engaged in this kind of sleazery for many years.
I remember that after I rented a place a couple of decades ago, I got a call from a Comcast telemarketer offering me cable service even before some family members knew my new address. I still don't know how they knew.
As I was preparing to move away to town where Comcast didn't provide service, I tried to cancel their service. At that time, to cancel an account, one had to return the cable box in-person during their deliberately inconvenient limited business hours. After turning-in their box to an individual in their office, who refused to give me any kind of receipt, I moved 350 miles away. Seven weeks later, when I called about an unexpected bill, which was late because of USPS forwarding, Comcast demanded that I return to their office to sign a cancellation order. No, I couldn't do it by by phone and I couldn't even cancel by mail, even with a notary.
I wound up paying for 3 months of cable service for whatever new tenant rented the place until I drove back there, sat through a sales pitch, paid "delinquent" fees, threatened a small claims case, and eventually signed their paperwork.
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When I cancelled Comcast, I returned their box, they gave me a receipt (NEVER leave without a receipt) and they asked why I cancelled.
Moving
Where to?
Hawaii (Comcast doesn't operate there)
Oh. Have a good time.
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I can't understand why you would go to the trouble of doing that or pay them anything unless you are desperate to do business with them again in the future.
In the 1990's, before a lot of people even knew what the Internet was, and only a small minority had personal computers or (analog) cell phones, getting a bad mark on one's credit report was a much larger deal, and portended a much more formidable fight to correct.
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Adobe CreativeCloud cancellation. (Score:2)
Just today thought I'd cancel My Adobe PhotoShop CC subscription because I'm not going to use the PS in a next few months.
It was a suprise to me when I finally managed to find the cancel button that pressing that and so cancelling my monthly paid plan, would cost me little over two months worth of subscription Euros (around 62€). What I did then... I went to My Paypal and denied the future payments from happening towards Adobe, and then cancelled the "annual" plan that I have paid per month basis thus
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Thank you SNL (Score:3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
There's worse (Score:4, Informative)
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Apple iCloud Subscription "Uncancellable" (Score:3)
Apparently I signed up for an iCloud subscription and I keep getting billed for it each month. I've tried to cancel it but I can't find a way to do that online and it's impossible to call and talk to anyone.
(I don't use this "service" since I found it lacking.)
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Searched online, first thing that came up:
https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]
Tell you how to do it on your computer and iphone or ipad. Pretty straightforward by the looks.
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I did try that. Unfortunately, my subscription seems to be with an account that is not recognized by Apple (may be an old account that I can't find). They have my credit card number but can't find my subscription.
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I just posted in response to your original message before I saw this follow up. It sounds like the problem isn't that Apple makes it difficult to cancel: it's that you lost track of any and all information related to the account that's incurring the charges, leaving you unable to manage your account. If so, check your emails for receipts—subject lines like "Your receipt from Apple." or "Receipt for your iCloud storage plan", depending on when you signed up—or an initial welcome—mine from 2
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Thanks, I'll give these suggestions a try.
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Apparently I signed up for an iCloud subscription and I keep getting billed for it each month. I've tried to cancel it but I can't find a way to do that
It's cancellable the same way you signed up for it in the first place: from any device signed into your Apple ID, from the very same screens you would have used to sign up for it.
On a Mac: System Preferences > Apple ID > (next to iCloud Storage) Manage... > Change Storage Plan... > Downgrade Options
On iOS: Settings > Apple ID > iCloud > Manage Storage > Change Storage Plan > Downgrade Options
Also worth noting, Apple emails you a receipt each month, and at the bottom of the receipt
Re: Ran into this with car insurance. (Score:2)
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It sucks that you had to be hassled over something like that. When I closed out my mom's estate, the magic words "my mom has died and I'm closing out her estate" elicited cooperation and understanding from everyone. (Well, everyone except for her local bank manager's difficulty to recognize Massachusetts's Voluntary Personal Representative as a way for me to assume the legal ability close out her bank account - he seemed personally offended and convinced I was pulling a fast one on him until his corporate
News? How about everything else! (Score:4, Insightful)
- Video streaming services
- Extended warranties (what a scam!)
- Cable TV
- ISPs
- Domain name registrars
You name it, this kind of abuse is everywhere.
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I'm about to buy a Ancestry.com membership. I will be using a one-time virtual card. There will be no auto-renewal.
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That's fine for you, but who wants to have to do that? What a pain!
Why is it so hard (Score:2)
Why can companies not seem to collectively understand that the way to keep customers isn't by duping them into signing up for something and then making it as difficult to possible to cancel? That just pisses people off and tends to make them LESS inclined to consume your products/services. If you can't build the better mousetrap, maybe switch to making flytraps or sell the company to someone else.
Pay for one more month policy (Score:2)
AAA is call-only for cancellations (Score:1)
Go get 'em, FTC! Their cancellation procedure is criminal. Good luck even getting someone to answer the phone if you call.
Opt out is bullshit (Score:2)
This "opt out" bullshit is disrespectful whatever the medium. All platforms should always be "opt in".
"chargeback" is the magic word (Score:1)
Use whatever communication channel (most recently, with The Economist, I used their chatting window) and let them know that you will ask your bank for a chargeback should they bill you after your current subscription period ends.
OK, a bit of a hassle, but problem solved...
Misleading story! (Score:2)
NiemanLab is a newspaper-centric outlet (i.e. not intended for consumption by ordinary folks). So the headline on this story is actually misleading because NiemanLab took what the FTC actually said and then put it into terms that the newspaper industry would clearly understand.
What the FTC actually said is that ALL "sign up online, call to cancel" activity is illegal AND the process of signing up and cancelling must be of relatively similar simplicity. So the FTC isn't just targeting the newspaper industr
SiriusXM (Score:2)
SiriusXM must hate this concept
NHL (Score:2)
This is why I cancelled my NHL subscription and never re-subscribed.
Any company preventing cancellation is evil.
Step 1. Cancel credit card (or wait for it to expire)
Step 2. Never look back.
US govt LIKES scammers (Score:2)
The way this works is that the govt doesn't mind you being scammed for the first 10 years. That is good for the economy.
Then, when somebody who is important to the govt (not you, silly) they start a "process." After 10 more years, the process issues a recommendation. Then they check if anyone important (not you, silly) still cares. In the unlikely event some such personages do care, the govt starts a rule-issuing process...