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United States Businesses Technology

US Will Cut Russia Off From Tech, Resources If Putin Escalates, US Official Says (reuters.com) 277

Russian President Vladimir Putin can do a lot more damage in Ukraine and the United States is prepared to respond by withholding technology and resources if he does, deputy U.S. Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo said on Wednesday. From a report: Such measures were not announced on Tuesday as part of a round of sanctions unveiled by President Joe Biden to punish Putin for recognizing two breakaway regions of Ukraine as independent and deploying troops into the regions to "keep the peace." "President Putin clearly has the ability to do much more than he has done so far," Adeyemo said in an interview with CNBC.

In response, the Biden administration could deprive Russia of a vast swath of low- and high-tech U.S. and foreign-made goods, from commercial electronics and computers to semiconductors and aircraft parts, people familiar with the matter have told Reuters. "The key thing that President Putin needs to consider is whether he wants to ensure that Russia's economy is able to grow, that he has the resources he needs to be able to project power in the future. If he chooses to invade, what we're telling him very directly, is that we're going to cut that off.

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US Will Cut Russia Off From Tech, Resources If Putin Escalates, US Official Says

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  • by BytePusher ( 209961 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:07PM (#62295853) Homepage
    The US will subsidize Russia's domestic technology industry and strengthen Russia-China trade relations.
    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      The world may just split into democracies versus dictatorships. Cold War 2.0.

      The Soviet Union couldn't keep up with the West's technology back then, but this time they half embrace capitalism such that things could turn out different. However, dictators tend to over-meddle in industry out of a control-first habit and slow down real progress. We'll see...

      • Wake up, it was always state capitalism since Stalin.
        • Wake up, it was always state capitalism since Stalin.

          No real Scotsman?

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            The problem with crying "no true scotsman" is that then that becomes a thought-stopping cliche even to cases where in fact it is totally correct to say that the thing in question is not a valid example of the concept being discussed.

            But to address the specific question of whether the Soviet Union was socialist, it is correct that what the Soviet Union actually practiced was "state capitalism" because the state controlled the means of production and the state was run by Communist party members generally and

            • by shanen ( 462549 )

              My initial reaction to the FP was that it was silly and wouldn't lead anywhere, but the resulting discussion does seem somewhat interesting. However no mention of kleptocracy yet (or anywhere else in the discussion, currently at 70 comments) and I think that's a much more accurate description of the state of Russia today.

              And since I'm always searching for humor, I think the joke is that many, perhaps most, of the fire-sale purchases of Soviet industries were funded with foreign currencies borrowed from fore

      • The world may just split into democracies versus dictatorships. Cold War 2.0.

        In the past, authoritarian governments have been unstable generally speaking. Often struggling to transition power to a new generation. This strife stunts a nation's economic growth, and thus their influence on the world. Democracy has been historical more resilient. Healthy democracies can reliably transfer power without bloodshed or long-term economic disruption.

        It's a sort of natural selection. We see more of what works because it survives. I believe the ratio of democracy versus dictatorships is changin

      • Are you sure the US still is a democracy? (I'm not being sarcastic, just realistic.)

        Because what I've been seeing would actually be the clash between "official" dictatorships and the Wall Street money dictatorship to see who rules the world.
      • The world may just split into democracies versus dictatorships. Cold War 2.0.

        Communism is gone, and the communists all turned into fascists. I didn't see that coming.

        Meanwhile the fascist countries turned into democracies.

    • It's a no win situation, but doing nothing is a bad option.

      Also, 'if it escalates' - it just did escalate already.

      • Germany under Hitler showed a new dictatorship can cruise quite successfully on the momentum of its industrial and scientific base for years, if not a decade, before lack of freedom encroaches cumulatively in slowdown.

        Keep that in mind for China, riding high, and will have such for years even if the West cut them off, before dictatorship collapsed as an economic power under its own weight. Next up: Tiawan

        It's the same as the middle east with oil: hard western cash powering a sheen of success in the face o

        • It wasn't a lack of freedom that caused the Reich's industrial and scientific slowdown.
          It was a lot of people with a lot of guns and bombs.
          • It was also the fact that they killed or drove out a bunch of really smart scientific people (anyone with a Jewish or other suspicious background). Hilbert said it destroyed the German math program.

            • It was also the fact that they killed or drove out a bunch of really smart scientific people (anyone with a Jewish or other suspicious background). Hilbert said it destroyed the German math program.

              OK- I don't want to minimize the... ickiness of that.
              However, all available evidence suggests their math program was still going just fine.
              For all the smart Jews they killed or drove out in terror, there were plenty of smart people in Germany to continue developing advanced technologies right up until the bitter end.

              • However, all available evidence suggests their math program was still going just fine.

                What evidence? I was citing Hilbert, who made his judgement on the state of the math program in the 1930s, before the war got bad for Germany.

                • The evidence being their advanced weapons systems- literally ahead of anything anywhere else in the world- that they deployed a decade after their supposed collapse of smart people and math skills.
                  Jet-powered aircraft, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, every synthetic performance enhancer you can think of, nuclear power. It goes on and on.

                  Hilbert should hardly be considered an unbiased source based on what he went through. And not to mention that his closeness to the purges probably influenced his per
    • Upon M finding it unusual Russia gave a medal to 007 for saving Silicon Valley, the Russian diplomat said, "Why? After all, where would Russian technology be without it?"

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Russia is already punching way above its weight in technology, whether you measure that weight in population or national income. The idea that they can improve on that by becoming *more isolated* is pretty far fetched.

      If you look at the reasons why Russia is so good at things like aerospace, it is because of an emphasis on refinement over innovation. Their virtues as a tech power mirror American vices as a tech power. Where Americans routinely abandon things that work perfectly well in order to pursue clea

  • by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:12PM (#62295863) Journal

    Meanwhile, keep sending in the javelins and Brimstones and other goodies the Ukrainian military can use to kill as many Russians as possible. The more standoff, the better.

    Considering the Ukrainian military killed nearly 3,000 Russian troops while it was wholly outclassed, the upgrades in weaponry and training over the last few years, and the subsequent transfer of newer technologies such as counter battery radar, should make the death toll much higher.

    When Cargo 200 trucks start arriving in Russia en masse, then the people of Russia will see how wonderful their dear leader is as the country falls to pieces and its soldiers die for nothing.

    • Meanwhile, keep sending in the javelins and Brimstones and other goodies the Ukrainian military can use ...

      After all, there's no military tech secrets at risk if they're captured by the Russians. Since the Afghanistan withdrawal they have all the reverse-engineering samples they need.

      • Not to step too hard on your political dick waving, but they likely had all the samples they needed while we were still IN Afghanistan.
        The Chinese didn't need to wait for the end of the Kosovo War to get their hands on F-117 parts.

        This is backed up by evidence that current Russian drones are using US navigation computers, and German motors.
        • Aren't military drones designed with the assumption that the hardware will be captured and all the 'good bits' are in the software?
          • I imagine so. But why source the parts externally if you can make equivalent or better domestically. The answer is- because you can't.
            That isn't to say they couldn't develop the capacity.
    • by jd ( 1658 )

      It won't result in a standoff. It'll result in Russia obtaining more American weapons tech.

      Also, the objective in war is to force the other side into submission. The winner is not the person with the highest "score" but the person who captures the enemy flag. You can kill a million Russians but if the Russians win then Ukraine lost.

      • Also, the objective in war is to force the other side into submission.

        Depends on what your objective is. In some cases it is total annihilation.

        In this case, Ukrainians will never submit. They've already prepared for an insurgency if Russia decides to fully invade, in which case Russia will have the same failure it had in Afghanistan. Endless attacks on troops and related personnel, body bags piling up every week, doesn't sit will with any public.
  • Why *if*? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:15PM (#62295883)

    Putin's already gone too far - but we keep saying "hey, if you move one inch more, you're gonna be in trouble, mister! Hey, stop moving. Alright now, that's it - you move one more time, you're really in trouble! HEY HEY HEY! NO, NOT ONE INCH MORE! Okay, if I see you move again, you'll regret it!..." and on and on and on.

    Just fucking kick Putin's ass with extreme prejudice already!

    • by splutty ( 43475 )

      International politics are almost never as nicely black and white as you apparently want them to be :)

      Putin's pretty much with his back against the wall internally and externally, so there's not a whole lot anyone can do about this now, and he'll most likely take Russia down with him, but that's not going to stop him either.

    • Re:Why *if*? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:47PM (#62296021) Homepage

      Just fucking kick Putin's ass with extreme prejudice already!

      Just kick Putin's ass already? Tell me there, how stupid do you think that would be to try? Putin has access to one of the largest nuclear weapons stock piles on the planet. And you just want to "kick his ass."

      • Hey if Putin does "push the button", we can all blame him for the destruction of the entire planet. So, there's that.

        Joshua's reponse: Nuclear war. A strange game, the only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
    • ...Just fucking kick Putin's ass with extreme prejudice already!

      Russia is a nuclear power.

    • What the fuck do you propose, dude?
      An all out war with fucking Russia? Christ. Do you have any fucking idea what that would entail, even if it didn't go nuclear?
      Those dudes aren't Iraq. You think shit was bad when we had uncontested air superiority.

      We continue to escalate economically, so you're full of shit about there not being a response. But it seems like you want a military one, and I just can't fucking imagine how you think that would turn out. All we can do in terms of "punishment" is to continue
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I'm not praising Russia's military.
          It's a crumbling behemoth they can barely afford.
          In an all out conventional war, there's no question who would win- eventually.

          The cost of doing so would be obscene though, simply because they can shoot our planes out of the sky. We will only obtain air superiority through winning the war of attrition, because we can afford it, and they can't.

          And no, it wouldn't be easy. US jets are not immune to Russian AA systems.
          As to whether or not it would be inevitable? No arg
        • The U.S. military would easily gain uncontested air superiority over Russia in a conventional war.
          No one believes that.

          And if you would look on a map, you would perhaps grasp your misconceptions, regardless of the quality of the planes.

          Erm ... how high does an AWACS actually fly? And how high a Suk? In an conventional air war - attacking Russia - no one has a chance against Russians.

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      It's easy to love violence when it's on TV.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:25PM (#62295915)
    About everything these days is made in China, and this includes most of the tech. China/Huawei is unlikely to comply with Biden's sanctions, so this 'cut off from tech' is an empty threat.
  • It would be pretty simple to isolate Russia financially - just remove them from the clearing system. International commerce with Russia would grind to a halt.

    • ... just remove them from the clearing system. International commerce with Russia would grind to a halt.

      Only a speedbump, while international commerce diverts to other systems. Such a move might well finish off the Dollar as the world's reserve currency, though, as well as US leverage on international banks.

  • I think Russian population in Ukraine should have the right of self determination, based on precedent of Kosovo which NATO countries occupied and then recognized as independent even though ot had no legitimate claim to statehood.

    I wouldn't support Putin invading the rest of Ukraine, provided they dont allow NATO missiles to be stationed there - see Cuban missile crisis for precedent.

    • Well I doubt Ukraine wants Russian missiles stationed next door either. So if Russia withdraws permanently and permanently pulls troops a long way from Ukraine, then maybe they have a leg to stand on about trying to control the actions of an independent, democratic country.

      In the mean time, Putin can go fuck himself.

      Also, Ivan, "self determination" isn't generally a military invasion from a foreign power.

      • As far as locals are concerned Ukrainian army are in fact foreigners. Soviet SSR borders were drafted quite frankly randomly and they have no relation to nationalities living there, so building nation states from them impossible. Only multi-national federations.
    • I think Russian population in Ukraine should have the right of self determination

      Putin's problem is one of communication.

      Is Putin trying to conquer all of Ukraine and possibly other countries as well? Or is he just trying to stabilize a region that everyone agrees needs stabilization?

      He hasn't clearly stated (or demonstrated) what he is trying to accomplish. Biden (according to his speech) clearly thinks Putin is trying to conquer as much territory as he can.

  • The 'high tech goods' are made in China and they will sell Putin whatever he wants.

    They're neighbors of the Russians too and they don't even have to look out their bedroom window to see Russia.

  • He invaded in 2014 and obviously was not sufficiently penalized for doing so. This is an ADDITIONAL invasion, and as usual, we've responded with half hearted graduated sanctions. If we were serious, the full suite of sanctions would already be in place and he wouldn't have been able to do this additional invasion.
  • Putin already knew this would be the response of the West, and factored it into his plans. This will do nothing.

  • But invading a country seems to me would count as an escalation. But hey I'm not a foreign policy expert so....

    Also fun to watch the entire Republican party become pro-Russia overnight. I guess we like communists now.
    • Also fun to watch the entire Republican party become pro-Russia overnight. I guess we like communists now.

      Ironically, Russia is not communist.

  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @03:44PM (#62296235) Homepage

    The cost of a decade of slow growth in Russia is nothing compared to the permanent gain of a significant portion of Ukraine.

    Once Putin dies and is replaced and the sanctions are lifted, Russia will be better off than if he had not taken Ukraine.

  • Russia and China are enemy societies (cue incoming IRA FSB shills whinging) not societies with enemy governments.

    The West has already chosen to pay the entire CCP war budget and more from US trade thus dooming Asia for the hideous mistake of detente, but can do without Russia.

    EUSians seeking business with Russia are traitors we cannot punish because capitalism trumps freedom but we can at least mitigate their ability to fund the NeoSoviet threat.

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