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Education United States

Are Colleges Going To Be On the Hook For Covid Tuition Refunds? (typepad.com) 77

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
schwit1 writes: Two separate lawsuits against American University and George Washington University have new life after an appeals court revived cases that allege both institutions violated contractual obligations to students when they shifted to online instruction in early 2020 at the onset of the coronavirus pandemic [Qureshi v. American University, No. 21-7064 (D.C. Cir. Mar. 8, 2022); Shaffer v. George Washington University, No. 21-7040 (D.C. Cir. Mar. 8, 2022)].

At the core of the issue is the refusal of both universities to refund students' tuition and fees. The plaintiffs allege that both universities had a contractual commitment to provide in-person education and should have offered at least partial tuition and fee refunds for students forced into online classes. Plaintiffs in both cases are seeking class action status for their lawsuits.

The lawsuits against American University and GWU are just two among dozens of similar suits filed by students and families since 2020, which have had various outcomes in courts across the United States.
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Are Colleges Going To Be On the Hook For Covid Tuition Refunds? More

Are Colleges Going To Be On the Hook For Covid Tuition Refunds?

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  • might be valid. Maybe the fees to keep university gymnasiums open should be given back, because those facilities totally weren't open.

    But I don't buy the argument about tuition. They paid for the opportunity to attend the classes. The move to online was caused by an act of nature. I bet these guys failed a bunch of their classes and are angry about it, and suing because their feelings got hurt. Eh. It's the American way.
    • They paid for the opportunity to attend the classes

      They paid to attend class *IN PERSON*. If they were ok with purely online schooling, they had multitudes of other options, but clearly they chose otherwise. Someone is going to get the shaft here, and it is a bit gross that you choose to shaft the students rather than the school. Long live capitalism, right?

      • They paid for the opportunity to attend the classes

        They paid to attend class *IN PERSON*. If they were ok with purely online schooling, they had multitudes of other options, but clearly they chose otherwise. Someone is going to get the shaft here, and it is a bit gross that you choose to shaft the students rather than the school. Long live capitalism, right?

        Take this line of reasoning further. For example, would the universities be justified in sending DVDs to the students in place of online classes and charging the same tuition? That's an extreme example, but it's clear that universities cannot unilaterally decide what form of "schooling" it delivers for the same tuition. That point shouldn't be in dispute. What is arguable is whether the online schooling was equal in value to in-person schooling, or at least within a reasonable range. Perhaps the univer

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by danda ( 11343 )

          What is arguable is whether the online schooling was equal in value to in-person schooling

          Value is always subjective. Clearly it was not equal in value for the plaintiffs, nor would it be to me. I hope the Uni's get a good spanking over this, and never try it again.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Won't they have to put a dollar value on it in the end? I'm sure the universities will argue that a full refund is too much, given that some value was derived.

            It's the younger kids I feel really sorry for. Since school is free up to the age of 18 there isn't much they can do about it.

        • What is arguable is whether the online schooling was equal in value to in-person schooling

          If this was a retail transaction I might agree with you. However, the costs to deliver were actually higher than in-person because most of the fixed costs did not go away just because the buildings weren't in use. Very few purely online schools are more than scams so there's not a lot to compare with. There are definitely good ones, but they are the exception.

          If everyone who would have attended in person were given the choice to withdraw and enroll in one of those few online options elsewhere, the demand

          • What part of our higher education system isn't a retail transaction?

            You pay X amount, you get Y hours of in-person instruction in subjects A, B, C. You take some tests, and if you score highly enough you get a paper saying "congratulations, you learned what you came here to learn."

            If you pay X for Y, and suddenly Y is changed to Z (where Y = hours of in-person instruction, and Z = hours of remote instruction), and Z is less valuable than Y (which for a great many people it is - many people strongly prefer

            • It's a transaction, but not a retail one. It's not a commodity product and shouldn't be treated like one.

              • It's every bit as much a retail transaction as, say, going to a movie theatre. If I buy tickets to a movie at a theatre, and they send me a link to stream it instead "because COVID," I have a right to a refund, or at least a partial one.

                If I buy a ticket to an in-person conference with a bunch of highly educated speakers which includes breakout sessions where I can ask questions, trade floor, etc., and then they cancel it and send me a zoom link, I have a right to a refund.

                If I pay to attend a series of le

                • I agree that it's basically a transaction. But you only got half the analogy. Let me fix that for you:

                  If I buy tickets to a movie at a theatre, and they send me a link to stream it instead "because COVID," and THEN I ELECT TO STREAM THE MOVIE AND WATCH IT ANYWAYS, I have NO right to a refund.

                  If I pay to attend a series of lectures by educated professors, and a series of hands-on labs in a well-equipped classroom environment, and then am sent a zoom link instead... AND I ELECT TO CONTINUE TAKING TH

          • However, the costs to deliver were actually higher than in-person because most of the fixed costs did not go away just because the buildings weren't in use.

            For the record, the cost of building construction & maintenance don't make up a very large percentage of the overall cost of delivering higher education. The very large majority of the cost is in providing the tuition itself. Yes, high quality digital resources are almost infinitely scalable at little extra cost. However, the things that make the biggest differences to learning gains & therefore the quality of education do not scale, they cost the same per student, e.g. corrective, directive & e

          • Costs to the supplier are irrelevant. I paid for X and instead received Y. It's called a bait and switch. And that is a variety of fraud.

            The first question will be is Y as good as X. The second question is did the recipient consent to the change.

            • Good point. But it's also a good point that what you signed up for didn't specify the delivery medium, and may have not even stated you'd be taught by a live person. And in many cases you could have dropped the class without having to pay. It's all dependent on the specific situation, but at the end of the day, if you didn't drop then you're probably not getting anything. Which is why this is trying for class status, they don't want the individual situations examined too specifically because most of them ar

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dbialac ( 320955 )

          Perhaps the universities could argue that the value of their tuition is almost entirely in the diploma and independent of what is actually learned or the learning experience, which would make the actual method and medium for learning irrelevant.

          Were that the case, people who don't finish college should get massive refunds.

        • so $100K for an diploma and then any one should be able to just buy one and not waste time in class.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hawguy ( 1600213 )

          They paid for the opportunity to attend the classes

          They paid to attend class *IN PERSON*. If they were ok with purely online schooling, they had multitudes of other options, but clearly they chose otherwise. Someone is going to get the shaft here, and it is a bit gross that you choose to shaft the students rather than the school. Long live capitalism, right?

          I went to college well before Zoom or the modern internet... I never recall the university promising in-person instruction and several of my undergraduate classes were televised - we went to normal classrooms, but there was a television in the front of the room and one professor taught hundreds of students at once. Some of the other classes were in big 200+ person rooms where even though the teacher was there in person, he wasn't giving any real 1:1 time.

          You could schedule time with a teaching assistant if

        • Perhaps the universities could argue that the value of their tuition is almost entirely in the diploma and independent of what is actually learned or the learning experience..

          (Litigator) "You're here for a piece of paper, not an education."

          (Dean) "Uh...did we really just use THAT, as a defense?"

          (Student) "Yeah. Yeah, you did."

          That doesn't just turn college into a binder full of Blu-Rays. It makes the whole damn thing, irrelevant. Save yourself $100K, and buy your degree out of the back of a comic book. Don't laugh. It's a sound argument given the highly educated gig economy.

        • "Perhaps the universities could argue that the value of their tuition is almost entirely in the diploma and independent of what is actually learned or the learning experience, which would make the actual method and medium for learning irrelevant."

          This might actually be the case. In some places (JPL and contractors, for example) it doesn't matter what/where your degree is from, as long as you have one you are qualified for the "professional" class of jobs; without one, you're confined to -- in effect -- da

      • Doesn't the University of Phoenix change more for like 100% online?

      • The fact that you call an industry whose primary money sources are in large part underwritten and entirely guaranteed through government action capitalist is fucking hilarious.

    • suing because their feelings got hurt.

      Most likely their feelings weren't hurt. They are suing because they have a chance to make money.

      • They are suing because they have a chance to make money.

        Well... the plaintiffs are suing to get *refunded* their money; their lawyers took the cases to make money.

      • suing because their feelings got hurt.

        Most likely their feelings weren't hurt. They are suing because they have a chance to make money.

        If you're looking to find profit facing both American college tuition and having to hire American legal greed, you've got a long damn way to go.

        Good luck.

    • Re:Their point about sports fees (Score:4, Insightful)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Thursday March 10, 2022 @04:00PM (#62344763)

      But I don't buy the argument about tuition. They paid for the opportunity to attend the classes. The move to online was caused by an act of nature.

      Sooo, that $200 ticket you bought to see your favorite artist live, who instead chose to cancel the concert and toss it online with no discounts, citing "same, same". You still cool with that?

      I mean if so, we'll just stop holding live events altogether. Hell, it would save lives at some concerts, and avoid millions in legal costs. Just ask Travis Scott...

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sconeu ( 64226 )

        <voice type="Comic-Book-Guy">
        Best. Analogy. Ever.
        </voice>

        Please mod parent up.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by godrik ( 1287354 )

        That is fairly different though. In the artist's case, the thing you paid for has not started yet. In the case of tuition, the switch happened essentially half way through the semester.

        Most universities have, within their policies, a statement that if the student can't make it to class, the instructor should seek back up strategies and that online teaching is a valid option. Usually these policies were written to cover snow days or building closure for safety reasons rather than for a pandemic, but the pol

        • Courts actually don't look fondly on using contract language technicalities to radically alter the service delivered, especially if there's a substantial difference in benefit, which there arguably is. The universities would be hard pressed to argue anyone agreed to the contract with the understanding online instruction could be substituted for entire semesters vs. a few days. Or that it was a trivial modification.

          The biggest hurdle they're going to face is if they went to online classes and completed th

      • Sooo, that $200 ticket you bought to see your favorite artist live, who instead chose to cancel the concert and toss it online with no discounts, citing "same, same". You still cool with that?

        Actually I was cool with that. Precisely that happened, and I had a nice live streamed event including some cool merch as well. The artist was still supported and I'll see them live next time it happens.

        But the thing is, you're not paying for tuition. You're paying for a piece of paper with a prestigious name on it which you will very much still have the opportunity to get. If you were actually cost conscious about physical use of university facilities you'd have to be insanely stupid to study in America. E

        • Sooo, that $200 ticket you bought to see your favorite artist live, who instead chose to cancel the concert and toss it online with no discounts, citing "same, same". You still cool with that?

          Actually I was cool with that. Precisely that happened, and I had a nice live streamed event including some cool merch as well. The artist was still supported and I'll see them live next time it happens.

          A $30 Blu-Ray is a hell of a lot cheaper, likely better production value, and you are still supporting the artist. Spend what you want.

          But the thing is, you're not paying for tuition.

          Says right there on the bill "tuition". I don't pay for that, I'm not getting a degree. I'm not even getting a parking pass. Plain and simple.

          Even countries which purposefully overcharge foreign students provide better bang for buck than any university education in the states.

          Ah, but that "prestigious" degree wouldn't have come from an American university.

          You've already admitted people are pissing away six figures on a piece of paper. Who gives a shit about "bang for your buck" education. Where the pa

          • A $30 Blu-Ray is a hell of a lot cheaper, likely better production value, and you are still supporting the artist. Spend what you want.

            The $30 blu-ray of the show doesn't exist.

            Says right there on the bill "tuition".

            What it says on a bill is completely unrelated to what you are paying for. Tuition is cheap. University in the USA is not. Maybe ask the university to itemise your bill next time: hourly rate of the lecturer, cleaning of the facilities, lab time, profit, administration, etc. Pointing to the word on the bill as some kind of argument is really dumb.

            You've already admitted people are pissing away six figures on a piece of paper.

            Not only have I "already admitted it". It was the core point of my post. Bang for buck in this case would be the cost of

            • Says right there on the bill "tuition".

              What it says on a bill is completely unrelated to what you are paying for. Tuition is cheap. University in the USA is not. Maybe ask the university to itemise your bill next time: hourly rate of the lecturer, cleaning of the facilities, lab time, profit, administration, etc. Pointing to the word on the bill as some kind of argument is really dumb.

              I was being accurate, and now you're acting like a defendant. Tell any American college student still paying for it years later that "tuition is cheap" and they'll laugh at that the same way. When you order a meal in a restaurant, you don't order by the ingredient, and your bill doesn't itemize down to the toilet bowl cleaner, the manager hourly rate, and real estate taxes. Trying to itemize everything is not only tedious most of the time but utterly fucking pointless.

              Here's something to chew on; Would

    • You paid a small fortune for what is basically on the job training (never mind that businesses managed to shift those costs onto workers) and didn't get the training you paid for. Happened to my family. Paid a ton of money for worthless classes but had to do it to get the degree. That meant the first several months in the job market were spent playing catch up. But it was a "take it or leave your degree" situation so there wasn't much you could do.

      The point might be less critical for plain mathematics o

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by danda ( 11343 )

      government and corporate and public institution knee-jerk policy changes are not "an act of nature". They are choices. choices have consequences. One consequence right now are these lawsuits.

    • In the UK for example, if you want online university tuition, you enrol with Open University. Lots of people do, and are very happy with it.
      However, lots of other people don't, because they don't want online tuition.

      I'm sure it is a similar situation in the US, except that the names of the reputable online universities are different to the UK.

    • My son attended online classes from a California State University during Covid. The professors have severely-abused online courses. One canceled the first three summer classes because he was in Hawaii and "they had bad internet". Another used another professor's videos and at the first class meeting, he instructed the students "you will not hear from me until it's time for finals". Others shortened or canceled classes.

      There were no repercussions for their errant behavior.

      It's sad because he's going to g

  • No Option to Withdraw? (Score:3)

    by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Thursday March 10, 2022 @03:43PM (#62344687) Journal
    I believe that our university offered students to option to withdraw from courses and get a full fee refund in the term the pandemic hit. Of course, not many took this option because it meant that they also got no credit for the course and would have to take it again later. Those that chose to carry on did so accepting that instruction would have to be online due to the public health laws then in effect.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Withdrawing has costs too. Students find themselves needing to get somewhere to live at short notice, and a job to tide them over.

      Deferring means that next year's classes will be oversubscribed too.

      • I think I'm going to sue Trump then because a flood caused damage to my roof. I mean if we're all about suing irrelevant people for something outside their control then let's go all in.

        The fact that withdrawing isn't easy doesn't magically make a university liable when disasters occur.

      • Withdrawing has costs too.

        Exactly but, when you cannot teach in person legally, what else can you do? Giving people the choice to either decide to continue under less than ideal circumstances or withdraw and take the course later lets them decide for themselves the pros and cons of either approach.

    • I believe that our university offered students to option to withdraw from courses and get a full fee refund in the term the pandemic hit. Of course, not many took this option because it meant that they also got no credit for the course and would have to take it again later.

      Sounds like overly coercive terms to me, that may well cost them a lawsuit.

      • Sounds like overly coercive terms to me, that may well cost them a lawsuit.

        How is that choice coercive? If you choose the refund you get a benefit of half a term of free education. It may not be credentialled but nevertheless, if you take the course again it will be a lot easier....or you choose to carry on under slightly different circumstances. Each choice has pros and cons. Fortunately, we are not in the US so, if there were a lawsuit, I doubt it would get very far.

  • Read the fine print, the college is not liable for acts of God. Every contract has an act of God risk, as long as the provider made a good faith effort to fulfill the contract. That said, there might be a case for any student who got a B or less in any class to sue to be allowed to have that grade stricken and retake the class in-person (if they pay for the class again, not get their money back.) I mean, your GPA can affect your life and you enroll expecting a certain type of instruction. This would also de

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by davidwr ( 791652 )

      "Acts of God" would allow the college to cancel the class and refund the fees. There's a lot more grey area if the college declares "events beyond our control" then does their best to accommodate the student, but the student claims the accommodation results in an inferior education and wants a refund for the "difference in value." That's what mediation, arbitration, and/or lawsuits are for.

    • Read the fine print, the college is not liable for acts of God. Every contract has an act of God risk, as long as the provider made a good faith effort to fulfill the contract.

      Well, at least you've confirmed why the lab leak theory will never be investigated any further, no matter how much evidence may come forward.

      Converting COVID into NOT an Act of God, would result in lawsuits in the billions. Greed can't have that now...

      • Dude, "act of God" is a legal term understood to mean anything that was out of the control and reasonable prediction of the person or company being contracted. There is no way a college could have predicted the covid-19 lockdowns and events. It doesn't matter if Jesus made the pandemic or someone who thought a bat looked kind of cute .. it is still under the legal term "act of god".

        • Dude, "act of God" is a legal term understood to mean anything that was out of the control and reasonable prediction of the person or company being contracted. There is no way a college could have predicted the covid-19 lockdowns and events. It doesn't matter if Jesus made the pandemic or someone who thought a bat looked kind of cute .. it is still under the legal term "act of god".

          An Act of God is actually defined as a natural hazard outside human control, or also referred to as not caused by humans.

          There's nothing organic or natural, about a lab leak, which would be caused by humans.

          And besides, no matter how good or bad the Acts are, no one is bringing God or Jesus in a courtroom. Get rid of the damn legal term.

  • If the same classes were offered online for the SAME total tuition + fees pre-pandemic, the students will almost certainly lose.

    If they were offered with a LOWER total cost, the best the students should hope for is the difference.

    Things get interesting if the school didn't offer the same classes online before the pandemic. In these cases, I would expect the students to win when it comes to fees that make no sense for off-campus classes, such as sports or parking fees, but it's going to be tough to get a co

  • If the complaining side can prove the existence of a contract and the terms of that contract, then my very basic understanding of contract law, and assuming the Courts do not "go woke" on us, says the complaining parties have a reasonable chance to win their case.

    Did a contract exist? If this point is determined to be "No" by a Court, then I think the complaining party's case completely falls apart.

    I would say, "Yes, a contract DID exist because money was exchanged with expectation of a service to be provid

  • There were a lot of bad choices made by many corporations and governments during the pandemic. I've been expecting a lot of lawsuits to follow and I think we are beginning to see the start of that wave. This is only one of many.

  • First, for the vast majority of brick and mortar institutions, there is no guarantee of in-person class nor is there a guarantee of the quality of instruction. There is an obligation for the university to strive to maintain their standards and most campuses certainly strove to maintain their academic standards within the context of the first global pandemic in generations-- one that has killed nearly 1,000,000 Americans since its onset.

    Second, students have protested the idea of paying for certain fees (ath

    • Indeed! And truth be told, most universities actually did a better than expected job in moving online so fast, considering that this is a century-old educational system.

  • Curiously, these people don’t realize that to be able to keep educating their kids during the pandemic, teaching faculty, tenured or non-tenured, faced workloads that were never seen before (and workload in academia at any respectable university is already crazy), beyond having to learn how to become you-tubers / live streamers / zoom psychologists / discord+forum managers / etc. in record time (to the point of impacting negatively their research, which is another major aspect of any respectable Univ

  • A shitty education delivered remotely should cost less than a shitty education delivered in person. Makes sense to me.

  • Very interesting topic. For me, US educational system is one of the best in the world. It's not perfect, but good and quality for sure. This year I'm applying to the university, and I spent a lot of time comparing different unis in the USA and Europe, the programs they have, and I think that American universities are good. I want to become a Brown student, and I've found a lot of information about applying there, what I should do and write, and if someone is interested, on the site https://studymoose.com/un [studymoose.com]

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