Russia Bars Entry To US VP Harris, Meta CEO Zuckerberg and Other US Officials and Figures (techcrunch.com) 182
Russia on Thursday expanded an entry ban on U.S. officials to include U.S. Vice-President Kamala Harris and 28 other American officials, businesspeople and journalists. From a report: The sanctions list, published by the Russian foreign ministry, included Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, Deputy Defence Secretary Kathleen Hicks and Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby, among others. "These individuals are denied entry into the Russian Federation indefinitely," the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement.
What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh no, can't go to Russia!? What's next, banning them from investing in failing Russian companies? Oh the humanity!
I really wonder if the Russians making these decisions realize how pathetic they are.
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
I really wonder if the Russian making these decisions realizes how pathetic he is.
Fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:2)
You have a very simple view of the world, don't you?
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
One of Putin's countless miscalculations was to underestimate the appeal of an old-school Manichaean conflict in an era of seemingly-endless moral ambiguity.
People want to take sides, but for generations it's been impossible for Westerners to do that without being confronted with their own sins at every turn. Whataboutism and cultural relativism has ruled the discourse since the Korean conflict. Conversely, Putin's comic-book villain imitation has made it fun and easy to side against him. In fact, he's made it all but mandatory for anyone not actively allied with Russia to side against him, and to help his enemy.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Every Russian citizen who isn't actively plotting to overthrow Putin is equally responsible for what is happening to their country.
To a certain extent. The truth is that in a country run by a thug like Putin such things might cost you your freedom, or even your life.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
When your sons are raping and murdering innocent non-combatants in anther country, perhaps your life is something you owe to others.
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
Conscription is a form of genocide.
Yeah, keep diluting the term until it doesn't mean anything anymore. Conscription is genocide! Wearing socks with sandals is genocide! Pineapple on pizza is genocide! (though I kind of feel sympathetic to the last one).
Conscription is practiced in many democratic countries all over the world, and the conscripts are citizens of that country. So do you really think many countries are practicing genocide on themselves, like some kind of national suicide? Or, assuming you do want to destroy a particular minority in your country - would conscripting them, arming them and giving them military training be the best way to go about it? It defies imagination how ridiculous your statement is.
The same stupid rhetorical escalation has led to "fascist" not being meaningful anymore. Both words have a pretty well defined meaning; when however you apply them randomly to whatever hurts your feeling at any time, they lose all shock value and become useless. The only positive effect of this kind of exaggeration is that it makes it clear nobody should waste time arguing with you.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, keep diluting the term until it doesn't mean anything anymore. Conscription is genocide! Wearing socks with sandals is genocide! Pineapple on pizza is genocide!
To be fair though, while pineapple on pizza isnt genocide it's in the same ballpark morally speaking.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Conscription is a form of genocide.
Yeah, keep diluting the term until it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Or, to quote Steve Earle, They draft the white trash first round here anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That is not Steve Earle who said that. The narrator of that song is the fictional character, John Lee Pettimore. We should not assume that the sentiments and beliefs of Steve Earle are the same as the words he puts in the mouth of the characters in his songs.
OK yes. Whenever I quote song lyrics I assume that disclaimer is implied by default. Did you find any grammatical or spelling errors as well?
Re: (Score:2)
It's Steve Earle who wrote it so yes you are quoting Steve Earle, just like you would be quoting Matt Groening if you repeated this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Whether those are Steve sentiments (they are) is immaterial as to whether you're quoting him or not.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> Conscription is practiced in many democratic
> countries all over the world
But it shouldn't be. To call it genocide is definitely over-the-top hyperbole. But to tell someone: "You know those plans you had for college, a career of your choice, starting a family, or even just a gap year? Yeah... you can forget about all that. The state has decided that you are more useful to it as a soldier. So that's what you are." sure comes of a very... soviet... to me. So I'd say it has no place in any count
Re: (Score:2)
>Try actively plotting to overthrow Biden
That's called "voting", and is actively encouraged where I live. In some countries its a legal requirement
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Lies and propaganda are very effective. A large amount of people believe the US election was stolen, and that's in a country where there actually IS a free press, and people don't get sent to the Gulag for having opinions.
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
There have been videos showing the average Russian opinion - the news crew traveled to basically middle of nowhere Russia and interviewed people in the village what they thought about the war.
Ward Carroll did a piece about the coverage - the average Russian believes they're fighting the Ukrainian Nazis and freeing the country like they did in WWII.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Ward Carroll did a piece about the coverage - the average Russian believes they're fighting the Ukrainian Nazis and freeing the country like they did in WWII.
Russia does not have a free press. The average person over there only has the information that has been available to them.
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair we have a free press over here and over two thirds of Republicans still think the last presidential election was rigged.
A free press is hardly a guarantee against misinformation.
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair we have a free press over here and over two thirds of Republicans still think the last presidential election was rigged.
A free press is hardly a guarantee against misinformation.
I agree with both points but would also suggest that the Republicans are absolutely correct - what else would someone call the shenanigans with the USPS, the gerrymandering, and the verbal attacks on the day of the election claiming that continuing to count actual votes was evidence of fraud? It was absolutely rigged, it was not rigged by Democrats, and these days every Republican accusation appears to be a confession.
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump filed lawsuits in every swing state and every one of them was thrown out for lack of evidence. His lawyers admitted in court that they had no evidence of election fraud.
Nothing was stolen and anyone still clinging to that lie (you, for example) is either delusional or a troll.
Re: (Score:2)
Either all the Trump-Russia stuff should not matter even if it was true because disinformation is a thing in a free society -or- the deep state STOLE the more recent election and Biden isnt legitimate. There isn't any other way about it.
Either you're an idiot -or- you are insane. There isn't any other way about it.
See how silly that sounds when I insist there can be only 1 of two truths?
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
It was stolen. We spent 4 years listening to the Clinton voters telling us how Russia manipulated our election and Trump was not legitimate.
Citation needed; I don't recall anyone important saying that Trump was not legitimate. A smarmy con-man, yes. A liar, obviously. An idiot, sure. But he was the legitimate president, despite his Putin-worship. Russian manipulation may have helped swing things his way, but his election was valid.
Note, however, the hordes of gullible idiots who claimed that Obama was not legitimate because he was born in Kenya (despite having exactly zero evidence for that, and lots of evidence for "born in Hawaii"). Also, the gullible idiots who claim that Biden is not legitimate because of some kind of voter fraud, despite, once again, zero evidence on the "not legitimate" side and lots of evidence on the "legitimate election" side (gee, anyone see a pattern?)
There was a time that conservatives believed in "personal responsibility". But all I hear you say is "boo hoo, I know I'm gullible, but if I claim that liberals called Trump not legitimate then I can avoid responsibility for claiming Biden is not legitimate." Dammit, be an adult and take responsibility for your opinions. In other words, don't be a Trump.
Re: (Score:2)
The former elected president lost the popular vote, twice. He was never legitimately elected. The Electoral College is an anachronism designed to keep the government in the hands of the people who could vote, i.e., white males.
Re: (Score:2)
Clinton voters are not Clinton. Trump is still claiming and filing lawsuits that he won the election. There was the whole January 6 thing as well. Clinton conceded the very next day, and even Al Gore conceded within a few days (the Supreme Court decision came after Gore conceded to Bush and no one really expected things to change).
If you want to talk about Clinton voter
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump appointed the majority of federal judges, including 3 of 9 Supreme Court judges. They all rejected his court cases claiming a stolen election.
Trump appointed the head of the FBI, Homeland Security, NSA, DOJ, and CIA. They all said, when questioned, that there was no evidence of a stolen election.
Trump appointed the majority of the Federal Election Commission. None of them said the election was stolen.
Please tell me, were they correct that the election was not stolen?
Or was Trump such a massive failure that he appointed idiots or corrupt people to every single judgeship (including Supreme Court), every single federal law enforcement agency, the Attorney General, and the federal election commission?
Because if Trump did not appoint a single competent, honest man to any of those positions, why aren't you happy the loser lost?
Re: (Score:3)
Oh and then there is Hunters laptop, which is plenty incriminating and polls indicate very likely would have swung some key states if there had not been a massive disinformation campaign to claim the laptop was all disinformation.
I'm curious, if you feel so strongly about this what did you think about the FBI reopening the case into Hillary's email server days before the election.
Re: (Score:2)
-or- the deep state STOLE the more recent election and Biden isnt legitimate.
What you're accusing the "deep state" of appears to be extreme competence. Like... they somehow managed to swing an entire election, something requiring thousands of people, possibly tens and managed to leave not a shred of evidence (despite being picked over by the courts, and both public and private investigations) and not a single person has broken ranks bring forth new evidence.
If you truly believe that the government is compet
Re: What's next? (Score:5, Informative)
I think the worst is that, according to the press... the majority of voter fraud conducted in the last election .. was done by Trumpians...
Like Mark Meadows: After voting in Virginia, Mark Meadows is removed as a North Carolina registered voter [npr.org] (and other sources):
Mark Meadows, a former chief of staff to President Donald Trump, has been removed from North Carolina's list of registered voters after documents showed he lived in Virginia and voted in that state's 2021 election, officials said Wednesday.
Questions arose about Meadows last month, when North Carolina Attorney General Josh Stein's office asked the State Bureau of Investigation to look into Meadows' voter registration, which listed a [mobile] home he never owned — and may never have visited — as his legal residence.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
We can 'overthrow' the government legally, every four years.
The Russians have to do it the hard way.
Re: (Score:2)
Every Russian citizen who isn't actively plotting to overthrow Putin is equally responsible for what is happening to their country.
Equally responsible? Seems like hyperbole to me. I could agree with partially responsible, but equally responsible is a stretch.
Do you feel you were equally responsible for everything Trump did while in the White House, and everything Biden is doing today? (replace with your nation's leaders if you're not from the US)
Re: (Score:2)
No, I'm suggesting assassination. Insurrection is one way to accomplish that, but there are others.
Re: What's next? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re: (Score:3)
Though what they brought when driving out the Nazis was certainly better than Nazi rule, but it it wasn't that much better.
Re: (Score:2)
Your definition requires to be free from oppression by another country, which was true for Russia. They drove out the Nazis from their own country and were only oppressed by their own.
France in your example, to which I incidentally totally agree would have happened if the American forces' presence did not deter the Soviet Army from steamrolling the rest of continental Europe, it is France that would not have won. Because would have been oppre
Re: What's next? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No pickled beets for a week!
Re: (Score:2)
Pretty good joke. My new one is "Putin's Mother Russia wears army boots!"
Re: (Score:2)
Oh no, can't go to Russia!? What's next, banning them from investing in failing Russian companies? Oh the humanity!
A reduction in diplomatic relations is really bad. That's how wars start. I realize they haven't "broken off" diplomatic relations, but barring entry to US officials is a start.We certainly won't be having any f2f peace talks in Moscow.
Re: (Score:2)
I havent seen anyone on the list who would have gone over there for peace talks without the ban, maybe you read the list closer than I did though. It's not as if they've banned the entirety of the state department.
We typically don't send prominent people like our country's VP into countries we're currently engaging in proxy wars with.
I am sure they must be shattered (Score:2)
Interesting who isn't banned (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny how no Republican is banned from entering Russia. Guess we know is getting paid off for the next election.
Re: (Score:3)
Funny how no Republican is banned from entering Russia.
Not true. Just skimming down the list [mid.ru] I see: Margaret Goodlander Robert Kagan, and Kathy Warden. Most of the list is businesspeople and military members who we don't know their party affiliations.
Re: (Score:2)
Sanctions for the win! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the sanctions the former alleged president added to the existing Cuban sanctions are driving a new exodus from Cuba. So they do seem to be working very well. Now I expect we'll see Republicans embracing our new prospective citizens welcoming them graciously into their homes. And the Easter Bunny is not a complete myth and is based on fact. Admittedly it isn't well-supported fact which means it should perfect for QAnon, Tucker Carlson, and the deluded Republican lawyers still banging on the "we wuz rob
Re: (Score:2)
Are you joking, right?
Then again (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Tucker Carlson.
The question must be asked... (Score:4, Funny)
Q: Why is Russia like a 90-year-old vagina?
A: Everybody knows where it is, but nobody wants to go there.
Re:The question must be asked... (Score:4, Funny)
I just got divorced... Might be an option...
can we ban putin from the EU and USA? (Score:2)
can we ban putin from the EU and USA?
Re: can we ban putin from the EU and USA? (Score:3)
No, Putin is very welcome in either. Where he will likely be arrested for War Crimes.
Pick Your Favorite Oligarch (Score:2)
Which oligarchs are you rooting for in the Twitter wars?
Which oligarchs do you want to see the US or Russia ban, depending on your perspective?
This is all VERY important for American society! Ignore the food production and distribution problems, we're gettin' our BAN on.
There needs to be a word. (Score:3)
There needs to be a word for "forbidding someone to do something they had no intention of doing in the first place". It sure seems to happen a lot.
Bye bye Dolce Vita ! (Score:2)
Damn !
Say goodbye to all your prospects of Dolce Vita in Mourmansk !
Oh no!⦠anyways (Score:2)
See subject
Why go on, then? (Score:2)
actions (Score:3)
I think this is one of those 'actions speak louder than words' moments. Russia is showing us the silliness of our own sanctions. Some of our sanctions have teeth but some are just as silly.
Re: actions (Score:2)
Russia is showing how silly some of the sanctions are, while the rest of the sanctions devastate their economy and we openly send military aid to the country they're at war with. Lol, that's one take I guess.
You took Russia's dumb sanctions against our VP, and reverse engineered something from it based on what you want to see. You think some of the sanctions are silly. So you factored that into their motive, they're showing you how silly some sanctions are. That doesn't make sense unless you put yoursel
Tying own shoelaces together USSR style (Score:2)
As to the others, nobody cares, they aren't US diplomats or even elected officials.
I know the career diplomats are not "elected", but I believe they usually get their posts from an elected official.
And let's not forget that PotUS and VP often do diplomatic visits.
Re:Dam! (Score:5, Funny)
Probably not, Russia has no interest in leaders who were legitimately elected.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Which is why they are banning Biden, right? They have no interest in him, as he is the legitimately elected president.
If Trump had any evidence the election was stolen, then why did all of his hand picked judges throw the cases out of court? Trump's lawyers wouldn't even say the election was stolen, in court. Because that would be lying to a judge and would get them disbarred. They know better and won't risk their career for a con man and a liar.
Re:Dam! (Score:5, Informative)
Trump's lawyers wouldn't even say the election was stolen, in court. Because that would be lying to a judge and would get them disbarred. They know better and won't risk their career for a con man and a liar.
63 times.
That's how many times Trump's election lawsuits were thrown out of court because Trump's lawyers admitted that they had no evidence.
Re: (Score:3)
Even funnier is Fox canceling Lou Dobbs after getting smacked with a massive lawsuit.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't matter. I'm not saying the election was fraudulent, but IF there ever was one, the scandal would be too big to allow it to come to light.
Re:Dam! (Score:5, Insightful)
Theres a definite nugget of truth to that but if there was a concerted, centralized conspiracy to rig an election in the US it would be hard to keep under wraps since you would have to manipulate multiple districts in multiple states and since in the US elections are administered by state down to county and individual district levels you'd have to have a wide range of total control over so many disparate people and it would only take evidence in one spot to appear to throw the whole thing into audits in every other spot.
The decentralized nature of our election system has some drawbacks but it does give it a certain resilency against attacks from bad actors at the same time.
Re:Dam! (Score:5, Informative)
The biggest thing that surprised me was that they couldn't find one crooked venue anywhere in the country. They have their pick of any location and they may only need to flip one or two. "Decentralized" in this case also means a bigger attack surface.
The strategy for next time around could well be stuffing goose-steppers (honk!) into as many positions as possible at state and local levels. They've certainly been passing laws that insert more bureaucrats into the process. More people having to certify the election means more places to insert a more pliant Pence who will obey when instructed to obstruct the election.
Re: (Score:2)
Still means rigging the ballots and also controlling the people counting the ballots, you kinda need control of both to make it work with any consistency. People have this impression that the election officials just mailed out reams of printed out ballots and accepted any that came back when they know how many went out, who they went to and who they got back from.
Turns out our election process is actually pretty good, when people actually choose to vote.
It's actually just plain easier to win the election b
Re: (Score:3)
Bullshit. Elections are overseen by little old ladies in tens of thousands of precincts around the country. It's a local thing, with normal citizens in charge. Large conspiracies of normal people just aren't possible,
Re: (Score:2)
Uh, do you think that Republicans have some method where only they are allowed to count votes, and no one else can look at them?
That's not how any of this works. The rest is pretty much spot on though.
I mean, they are doing everything they can to steal the election but fucking with the vote totals is the least effective, most easily discoverable way. Gerrymandering is the tried and true method.
Re: (Score:2)
>Uh, do you think that Republicans have some method where only they are allowed to count votes, and no one else can look at them?
Yes. It's called "Electronic Voting"
Re: (Score:3)
Well, yeah. I am concerned with fully electronic systems. But are there many that are fully electronic? Where I live, we have electronic touch screen systems, but they print out a paper ballot to bring over to the scanner. You have a chance to verify that what got printed is what you selected. The scanner tallies the paper ballots, but keeps them as a paper record. That sort of electronic voting system is as safe as any paper system.
Re: (Score:2)
What they will do is say: oh there was some 'anomaly' in the vote from that democrat area, can't certify those votes! so sorry ; )
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
And the Kraken will be released any day now, Hillary will really be going to prison THIS time, the secret pizza parlour cabal will be caught out soon, something RENT FREE something Obama, Hunter Bidens laptop is gonna be BIG any time now!
BREAKING NEWS! QAnon just texted me and somethinh YUGE is coming out any day now! /s
Re: (Score:2)
Search for the Golden Meme to end the war (Score:2)
I wish you'd succeeded in making a stronger joke. The topic needs some Funny. But don't look at me. I wouldn't know how to write a funny joke after one bit me on the arse... Mostly I think the topic is getting trolled seven ways from Sunday and it rarely rises to popcorn level.
However I'm always looking for solution approaches. Here's a wild one.
How about a meme? Not just any meme, but a solid gold meme that is so strong that Putin will realize he lost. A meme that will convince Putin to stop the war crimes
Re:Search for the Golden Meme to end the war (Score:5, Interesting)
NATO is united as long a Le Pen doesn't get elected in France. She wants to withdraw from NATO and the EU. She wants to get closer to Putin because, I'm paraphrasing her comment, she wants to keep them out of the orbit of China. She really is that deluded.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
To hell with their careers.
I'm outraged that that's all lying to a judge would have gotten them, they should be afraid of hard time in federal prison for perjury.
Getting disbarred really should be the least of a lawyer's worries for getting caught lying under oath.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
FYI, it's spelled "damn". "Dam" refers to things like the Hoover Dam....
Amazing the number of well-educated (nominally, at least), attention-to-detail types who couldn't win an sixth grade spelling bee....
Of course, if you were exclaiming at the sight of the Hoover Dam as you typed that, my apologies....
Re:Not really very meaningful (Score:5, Informative)
She's actually been to both Mexico and Europe as VP:
https://www.latimes.com/projec... [latimes.com]
You couldn't be bothered to take 10 seconds to google before posting that?
Re: (Score:2)
And she was just in Poland a month ago. Was all over the news, except probably Fox so the GP missed it.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why are you lying about our borders being insecure? That's just another right wing con job, to keep you angry and confused while the corporate friendly right wing politicians pick your pockets for their rich right wing corporate friends.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Why are you lying about our borders being insecure? That's just another right wing con job, to keep you angry and confused while the corporate friendly right wing politicians pick your pockets for their rich right wing corporate friends.
1.66 million illegal border crossings in FY 2021. While I wouldn't call our border "open", it is clear that a non-insignificant number of people do cross it without proper documentation.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Here, let me google that for you: https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Wow, when you look at a graph, there doesn't appear to be much difference between the Trump and Biden administration.
I wonder, are you just misinformed, are you stupid, or are you a liar? I'm guessing, a combination of all three.
Re:Can We Ban Entry To These People? (Score:4, Insightful)
Where was the AC lying? Your google search allowed me to quickly look up the numbers on CBP. What the AC stated was factually correct. At no point in the previous comment did the AC state that the borders were secure under Trump, so I am not sure why the red herring/strawman.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So you agree, the borders are as secure as they ever have been, and Biden is not at fault. Thanks!
Re: (Score:2)
I love it when people bitch about moderation. That's as good as a direct admission of defeat. So thanks for being willing to admit that you fucking lost this argument, badly.
Actually, you dragged partisan politics into the conversation... and got modded up for it. You weren't even arguing about the same issue, but then tried to make it seem as though you "won" the argument.
Not really very impressive.
Re: (Score:2)
Most of Trump’s campaign was about building a wall and securing the border. So it turns out he did a shitty job. My shocked face.
Re: Can We Ban Entry To These People? (Score:2)
So let me get this straight. Does this mean fans of Trump were alarmed and concerned but other than the hate and the lowered oversight on ICE agents for a whileâ" zero actual changes to border security actually changed?
I guess being upset and using it as a campaign issue is the extent of the involvement. Seems the left and right has more in common than I once thought.
Re: (Score:2)
That immigration is well within normal variation, and nothing Trump or Biden did had any real effect on that. The graphs bear out that line of reasoning. Believe what you want, that's why I did not cherry pick a particular graph.
Re: (Score:2)
Ya, and SS and Medicare are scheduled to go broke in a few years. Know why? Not enough people paying in. There are ways to fix it: (1) raise the cap on what can be taxed for SS and Medicare, (2) means test those programs, (3) lower the benefits, I'm sure there are more. None is a silver bullet and would take a combination.
(1) won't work because Republicans will whine about having to pay for our country. (2) won't work because Republicans will whine about have their money taken for the blue hairs. (3) won't
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Texas should do the same! (Score:4)
Texas and Florida should secede from the US and join Russia. Russia has no gays, limited immigration, and has the authoritarian 'we took care of the votes' government you are after. Putin offers everything you are looking for, just go.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Nah, Texas is on the path to being Saudi Arabia. It is run by the American Wahhabis, better known as Christians. They keep firm control of the boarders. The elections have been gerrymandered into not being free. And it is slowly drying out and becoming hotter. Still, they have some monkey in a wheelchair insisting their problems are caused by illegal aliens and LBGQ.
Re: (Score:2)