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Education

PhD Students Face Cash Crisis with Wages That Don't Cover Living Costs (nature.com) 126

Posted by EditorDavid from the hired-education dept.
Slashdot reader Hmmmmmm shares this surprising report from Nature. "Salaries for PhD students in the biological sciences fall well below the basic cost of living at almost every institution and department in the United States, according to data collected by two PhD students." The crowdsourced findings, submitted by students, faculty members and administrators and presented on an interactive dashboard, provide fresh ammunition for graduate students in negotiations for higher salaries as economies across the world grapple with rising inflation. As this article went to press, just 2% of the 178 institutions and departments in the data set guaranteed graduate students salaries that exceed the cost of living.

The researchers used the living-wage calculator maintained by the Cambridge-based Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a widely used benchmark that estimates basic expenses for a given city, such as the costs of food, health care, housing and transport. Most institutions fall far short of that standard. At the University of Florida in Gainesville, for example, the basic stipend for biology PhD students is around US$18,650 for a 9-month appointment, about $16,000 less than the annual living wage for a single adult in the city with no dependents. At a handful of institutions — including the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg and the University of South Dakota in Vermillion — the guaranteed minimum stipend is less than $15,000 for 9-month appointments.
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PhD Students Face Cash Crisis with Wages That Don't Cover Living Costs More

PhD Students Face Cash Crisis with Wages That Don't Cover Living Costs

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  • I used to date a biology major. I wasn’t smart enough to be able to date a physics or chemistry major. And I’m entirely unsurprised that biology salaries are lower.

    Take from that what you will.

    • "I used to date a biology major. I wasn’t smart enough to be able to date a physics or chemistry major. And I’m entirely unsurprised that biology salaries are lower."

      Indeed, nowadays there are machines doing the lab-work of 50 biologists and they cost less than 50 grand.

      • This is seeping into the medical industry as well. The machines are getting better and better, increasing efficiency. Surgeons are getting a lot more done in less time with better results and higher survival rates.

        Law is also affected, as well as banking and financing. You just don't need the same amount of jobs as you use to because of our technology gains.

  • ... to be birthed by parents that can cover their expenses? Filthy poors trying to get uppity again....
    • the Mormans believe (or used to) that you picked your parents up in heaven.

      I think it was an attempt to get around the "Problem of Evil". e.g. if God is all powerful (omnipotent), all knowning (omniscient) and all good (omni-benevolent) then why do we have evil?

      The answer is usually "free will" and if you're going to run with that you need to take it all the way back, to before you're even born.

      It does raise other issues. Heaven is supposed to be a place with no suffering. i.e. no "evil". And yo

      • Mor... mans? Were you thinking of Ethyl Merman? I thought she was fun!

      • Ahh, but evil does not exist. It's just your perspective of the situation. So sayeth Saint Augustine.https://open.library.okstate.edu/introphilosophy/chapter/augustines-treatment-of-the-problem-of-evil/

        Alternatively, is God really benevolent? Also, if we do go to Heaven, wouldn't that have to be a custom experience for each of us, based on what our own mind would view as heaven, or is it just another place to be agreeable in? For instance, my version of Heaven would include all the people I love, regardless

      • I don't believe that there is Free Will in heaven. Angels don't have free will, and the grand experiment of humanity is supposed to be seeing what we do with it after having been seduced into eating from the apple of knowledge and gaining the ability to exercise free will.

        Theology teaches that God is everything, the supreme master of the universe. Roll with that concept - God is everything. Our souls are slivers of His consciousness. When we die, we take our collected memories and experiences back to He

  • that higher science education is more prestigious, but lower technical college and community college have a much higher return on investment.

    Scientists have always been poor. As in, very poor. The news here is that they're now too poor to survive. But they weren't far from that before.

    • And people thought scientists drove old Volvos and wore jackets with elbow patches on their own free will :-P

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      I worked with science grad students back in the 1990s. The pay was, and is, intended to allow someone who was primarily engaged in research to survive. It was not like law school to allow students to network, but BMWs, and play with lawyers. It was not intended to support a family.

      Obviously students who were raised in the US may have become accustomed to a standard of living and a standard of entitlement. In that case it is totally appropriate for parents help maintain the style of living. But there are s

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        I don't see any moral arguments to exclude PhDs working on research from being paid minimum wage. Of course they don't spend all of their time on it, but the hours they do spend on it should be paid at least at that level.

        Of course basic income would be better, but if we're to have minimum wage, then it should apply everywhere.

    • The news here is that they're now too poor to survive. But they weren't far from that before.

      Bullshit.

      If they are so smart why did they spend all that money to get an education that can't enable a person to earn enough to pay it back?

      How many advanced degree holders get up early every morning to stack books at a book store or take drink orders at a coffee shop? I don't think the issue for those people is that being a Starbucks barista doesn't pay enough to cover your English lit phd... They likely either chose the wrong school, the wrong major, or chose to borrow too much money to cover their schoo

  • Social sciences too (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rantrantrant ( 4753443 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @12:52PM (#62572774)
    I was a member of a social sciences SIG for 10-ish years. Brilliant people many of them making a real difference in the world of education. They sometimes asked me when I was going to do a PhD. I'd looked at how hard PhD's had to work, the sacrifices they made, the tiny number of "good" jobs they were competing for, the precarious working conditions in general & the salaries they typically got, thought about it, & wondered why? Why give up so much of my life, live in poverty, & head for an early grave through overwork?

    • I'd looked at how hard PhD's had to work, the sacrifices they made, the tiny number of "good" jobs they were competing for, the precarious working conditions in general & the salaries they typically got, thought about it, & wondered why? Why give up so much of my life, live in poverty, & head for an early grave through overwork?

      If only more people would do a similar cost/benefit analysis...

      • Actually, I think it speaks to how many academics aren't motivated by material gain at all. They absolutely love their field & dedicate themselves to it regardless of the pay & conditions. They're among the most amazing people in the world & we need to take better care of them (& we don't really understand how dependent on them we really are, especially in fundamental science which the private sector benefits from enormously but won't fund). I reckon that'd be at least a living wage, more st

  • Don't get a phd then moron (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BitZtream ( 692029 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @01:00PM (#62572798)

    PHd's don't mean shit other than you got taken advantage enough by your professors/advisors or the school made enough money off of you that they gave you a bullshit title that has no value to anyone other than yourself and the other idiots who got PHds because you have to justify the fact that you got suckered into the PHd shit anyway.

    Doesn't mean you have any common sense or intelligence AT ALL, PHds are ARBITRARLY handed out, its not like there is an actual certification process that all of them conform to so there is consistency, every single one of them is arbitrary.

    I unfortunately know several PHds, and they universally think they know everything about everything because they have a PHd when in reality most of them are unable to balance a budget or make generally good decisions - which is why they were stupid and spent several years of their lives being indentured to their advisors so they could come out the backside with less experience than their peers, an arrogance level beyond belief and a general lack of usefulness in society for another 10 years while the real world breaks down the ignorant bullshit that goes with people who spend their entire lives hiding in academia rather than the real world.

    If these people were so smart - they wouldn't have been so stupid to spend all the time and effort sucking up to advisors and faculty only to come out of the program deep in debt with no real job prospects available to make up for the debt/poor wages that got them to where they are.

    Having a PHd in most (not all) fields is a sign of your ignorance and stupidity, not intelligence and knowledge.

    My wife is an actual doctor, you know, medical degree and all that, and there is nothing more insulting to have some jackass who studied religion at some shithole religious school walk into the office and introduce themselves as a doctor. My sister-in-law has a PHd in education and is pretty much fucking helpless at everything in life except getting her PHd, thinks that what she did - coming up with a really stupid theory and then proving herself wrong makes her a the greatest thing since sliced bologna. Can't balance her check book, keep her marriage together, or manage any other aspect of her life - but god damn she's a PHd and you better respect.

    We don't need more idiot PHd morons, we need educated intelligent people that were smart enough to skip the commercialized pay-to-play system of education we have now. The good-old-boys club of higher education in America is nothing to be proud off. Pay to graduate is pretty much the norm in America at this point, the entire education system is revolving around keeping students in the system longer and longer, not getting them the tools they need to succeed in the real world.

    99% of the worlds PHds would be FAR more valuable taking a welding class and doing something useful other than postulating over whatever ignorant idea they came up with to change the world today.

    Yes, I have serious issues with the state/quality of higher education in America - and it starts with the fact that every single college professor I have ever met isn't worth his weight in salt water, let alone anything rare. Out of the hundreds I've seen, attended class with, about 4 were actually good at transferring knowledge to others. The rest were - if lucky - there to collect a paycheck, some are just leeches.

    If you think getting a PHd makes you valuable or some how deserving of a big paycheck - you are exactly the kind of person I'm ranting about here. You aren't special because you paid someone to tell you that you are.

    • This. Right there. And me without modpoints.

      In my field, I don't know a single person with a PhD. A master is already more than plenty in most cases, and even that's a more recent development since HR suddenly started thinking that this means something.

      It means jack. But that's not even the point.

      The whole system is kinda iffy by now. With some people who hold degrees I wonder what worth that degree has altogether.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dostert ( 761476 )
        Moron with a PhD (in computational mathematics) here. There are still quite a few good reasons to get a PhD. If I wanted to go work as a lead coder somewhere? No, makes little sense. In my case, I knew I wanted to teach. In undergrad I discovered I was good... very good in mathematics. So good that it was going to be a waste of talent to teach Algebra II to public school kids. The logical choice? A PhD so I could find a primarily teaching job. For example, SACS wouldn't even "allow" someone to lead a depart

    • I unfortunately know several PHds, and they universally think they know everything about everything because they have a PHd when in reality most of them are unable to balance a budget or make generally good decisions - which is why they were stupid and spent several years of their lives being indentured to their advisors so they could come out the backside with less experience than their peers, an arrogance level beyond belief and a general lack of usefulness in society

      Exactly.

    • Look, I'm not gonna stick up for everyone with a PhD, but someone with a PhD is a DOCTOR of Philosophy. Your wife is an MD, but a Doctorate is the DEFINITION of a Doctor. It's not insulting for them to introduce themselves as doctors, many of them are legitimately the head of their field.

      I've also met plenty of medical doctors who are woefully poorly educated. They're not up on the latest research--or in some cases, any research in the last 20 years. They tell you things that are verifiably wrong, walk in with their own opinions and don't trust the patient to know their own body, their own symptoms, or their own illness.

      Lets be real: many people with MDs are just good at memorizing medical textbooks and are terrible doctors that help nobody. The lesson isn't that PhDs are better than MDs or vice versa, it's that no matter how much formal education you have, you may genuinely be bad at your job, terrible with people, and kind of an idiot. You were just good at going to school and playing that game.

    • I interviewed at the University at Buffalo (SUNY) for a comp-sci related job, and at some point the interviewer asked, "And how would you work with PhDs? We have a lot of them, here." I said, "The same way I work with anyone with developmental disabilities." And, in fact, I have a *lot* of experience working with DD folks: I grew up with a number of them in a family setting. Curiously, they were non-plussed with my answer. Even more curiously, they didn't offer me the job. Hmm.

    • Well you are pretty much ready to submit your thesis for a PhD in having a massive chip on your shoulder.

  • If's a rough financial road to obtaining a financially unrewarding degree, I'd call that good - better to not lead them down the garden path into debt.

    Or is it more like medicine, where we have an absurd level of bottlenecking, which blocks people from lucrative careers that we badly need more people to pursue?

    • If's a rough financial road to obtaining a financially unrewarding degree, I'd call that good - better to not lead them down the garden path into debt.

      Or is it more like medicine, where we have an absurd level of bottlenecking, which blocks people from lucrative careers that we badly need more people to pursue?

      That depends on what part of biology you study. If you go into a industrially applicable area (genetic engineering, plant breeding, animal breeding, etc.) you can make a good living. If you go into academia, well, maybe you become famous and rich and maybe you scrape by.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      In medicine, like many professions, the bottlenecks are what makes it a lucrative career.

      • Sure but that's what we need, more doctors that was are paid somewhat less well. Raise the quotas and lower the barriers. Not too much, just somewhat.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Absolutely. Guilds don't take kindly to being told what to do though.

          The barriers are mostly artificial, but the quotas are brutal. When you've applied all the reasonable criteria and you still have many times the quota you just start making up stuff that hopefully sounds legit.

        • Arguing for lower-qualified doctors is an interesting argument - good luck with that.

          • More family doctor would be great and they don't need to know every little thing the specialist does. Of course, the real money is in being "special" and the process to be a mere (nothing mere about it) family doctor is already so grueling, may as well go for the big bucks to pay off this education.

            We would definitely benefit as a society having more doctors at the first rung on the doctor ladder.

  • I am not sure that it Ph'D candidates have ever made a living wage in any field. You work as cheap labor for years, to get the magic letters that are supposed to get you a high paying job. If you pick the right specialty, you can do very well (although you will never make as much as a MBA, even though they IMO have a negative net value). If you pick the wrong field, well you can always get a job at McDonalds. My thesis advisor told me, that the best lab technician he ever had, was a history Ph'D. Succe

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      I read the summary and was wondering where these places where PhD students were doing so well were.

      A PhD is basically the equivalent of musicians being expected to do gigs "for the exposure."

  • Poverty line in the US is (Score:5, Informative)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @01:19PM (#62572856)
    about 13k per year. So these stipends keep a student above poverty. This is a case of creeping expectations. If you're a grad student living on a stipend, and zero support from family, this is what you can afford:

    Incidentally, I know this because I lived this life for 4 years and I know many others who did also.

    1. A room in a rundown group house or grungy university apartment, quite possibly with an actual ROOMMATE. Not just housemates, or apartment mates, you actually SHARE A ROOM
    2. Enough money for food. Not fancy steak. Basic food. Most protein comes from eggs and occasional hamburger or chicken. Cooking yourself is REQUIRED. Eat out: once per month.
    3. If you're not on your parents insurance, you get basic medical care and minimal insurance provided through the university.
    4. A car? Mmaayybe you can afford a junker and minimal insurance. More likely, you live close enough to the university to walk or bike, or take public transport.
    5. Amenities and fun? The university offers nearly-free shows and performances, and they probably have a nice rec center with a pool, workout equipment, a track, pool tables, ping pong tables, all free to students. That's your entertainment.
    6. Clothes from goodwill (btw you can dress pretty sharp shopping at goodwill while paying

    Remember, a grad student on a stipend is getting a TUITION WAIVER. So, that 50k per year that the university normally charges for tuition? The student doesn't have to pay it. The university is eating that cost. Overall, that student's pay+benefits package is costing the university somewhere between 50-100k per year.

    It's not a bad deal at all. Most students get at least a few thousand dollars support annually from family to help take the edge off. But if they don't, it's still possible to get through. It's just that you're POOR. Not in poverty, but definitely the poor-student life. It's just that, nowadays, lots of people expect a swank urban apartment, a nearly-new car, nice clothes, and eating out, and travel, and the same sort of lifestyle that the "influencers" pedal. Retch. omg I literally vomited typing that word.

    • Re:Poverty line in the US is (Score:4, Insightful)

      by students ( 763488 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @03:44PM (#62573196) Journal

      I was a PhD student a long time ago.

      1. I shared a studio with another person.
      2. I ate out once a month and cooked otherwise.
      3. I got my health care from the university.
      4. I rode a bike.
      5. I used the university pool and went to $5 concerts.
      6. I did not get my clothes from Goodwill.

      So I did 5 out of 6. But the thing is, I was paid $30,000 a year. Adjusting for inflation, that's about twice the $20,000 stipends mentioned in the article. $20,000/year is setting the PhD student up to fail.

      The tuition waver is a lie. There is no incremental cost to teaching PhD students because PhD students are treated as workers, not students. That's like counting the manager's pay as part of the cashier's pay.

      • 30k per year? After taxes, that's about 25k, or roughly 2k per month. Even allowing 1k per month rent and utilities, which is quite generous if you're living with a roomie in a university area, that leaves 1000 per month. Allow 500 per month groceries, again reasonably generous, and there's quite a bit left over. That's assuming that your family has completely abandoned you. I'd say that I'm confused as to how you were so close to the edge, but it's not confusing at all: most people expand their spending to

        • 500 for one person? What kind of swanky food you buying? I just made a pot of really good chili for under $20. I'll be dinner for 4 nights. Made a chicken pasta casserole for under $10, using canned chicken. That's at 3 dinners. Spaghetti with no meat is under $5. Add turkey for $4 or beef for $6. Once against, that's multiple meals.

          Cooking at home saves a lot of money and one person that doesn't drink does not need $500 in one month. That's crazy.

        • Yeah, that tuition that went to the sports teams and Gender Studies clans went well. Or maybe Tree Climbing? Getting dressed? "Lady Gaga and the Sociology of Fame?" A tuition based on The Game Of Thrones? I mean, what the fuck?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by physick ( 146658 )

        Sounds like my PhD in the 1990s in Canada, except for #4: I had no bike, I took the bus everywhere. Salary was around $15,000 Canadian, rent was $300/month split two ways (I had the bed in the living room, friend had the bed in the bedroom). Extra Foods was my my main shopping place, and the first question in any new cafe/bar was "Are the coffee refills free?"

        But I had no idiot boss (that came later in industry), got to ask questions of really smart people at seminars, travel to conferences (admittedly on

  • Why is the benefit of the education and PhD not included in the 'wages'? These are STUDENTS. These are like apprentices where the largest portion of their benefits are the learning, experience, and degree. Comparing PhD student wages with non-school working wages is ridiculous.
     

    • I mean, it's very capitalist. You impoverish someone while they're getting their education so they have no choice but to get a job as an adjunct professor who has to live out of their car and go to the food bank. There's not actually any guarantee that finishing the PhD means that they'll get a job that will help them dig themselves out of debt.

      But more than that, WE benefit from the education that someone like that gets. We need biologists, and doctors, and law professors and all those people for society t

  • How does one get into grad school without understanding that you actually have to pay for the education? The article implies that one should be able to have a career as a grad student (I've known some who would welcome that).

  • Have Universities ever heard of inflation? (Score:3)

    by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @01:39PM (#62572894)

    I was paid a ~$17K-$18K stipend in the early Eighties for $DIETY's sake. I was fortunate enough to land a spot within a research organization at the school where I could work summers to augment that stipend. Most grad students didn't have that opportunity.

    Academia hasn't paid well since, well, forever. Anyone who is, is most likely an administrator (or a coach in a sport involving a ball). I knew a faculty member in the History Dept. (who I lived next door to off-campus) as an undergrad who was only making $11K.

    • University administrators (excluding the occasional investment manager who has no say in university operations) are never paid as much as the top sports coaches and surgeons at large universities.

  • Grad school (Score:3)

    by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @01:39PM (#62572898)
    When I was in grad school, we were salaried part time with expectations that exceeded full time hours. The running joke was how we made a major mistake because McDonalds employees were making significantly more money per hour. That and threatening to cut people’s salary in half or doubling it for good effort when they weren’t actually being paid to do the work.
    • That sounds familiar. When I was in medical residency about 10 years ago, I averaged about 25/hr. This is for the doctor supervising the ventilator on your kid and who has to respond to the entire goddamned hospital when shit goes down.

  • I went to grad school in my mid-30s, payed in full by my employer. This is not a common arrangement, but in the physical sciences at least it is not rare. When I was in college, a grad level class I took had a dude in his 40s who was being paid for by Lockheed to get his PhD in radar physics.

    My own observation of people with whom I've worked who got their PhDs straight out of college, making grad student wages, is that on the whole their research topics were more fuzzy, the quality of their work lower, and

  • Same was true back in the 1990s... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Uncle_Meataxe ( 702474 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @01:56PM (#62572944)

    ... when I was a grad student in biological sciences at UC Berkeley. The university raised tuition and housing costs every year but never increased our research & teaching assistant wages. People were making decisions on whether they should buy textbooks or pay rent. That's why we formed a grad student union (with the UAW). We shut down campus. After we unionized, UC raised wages and gave us health insurance. Made a huge difference.

    Note that few people come out of PhD programs with any debt. That's why it takes so long to finish a doctorate in the US -- you're working more than half time and essentially going to school or doing your own research when you have free time. Of course, this is not true for "professional" programs, e.g., law, medical, or MBA programs.

    • Note that few people come out of PhD programs with any debt.

      Yeah, it's kinda funny how the researchers kinda "forgot" to put a value on Graduate School tuition...

      • Yeah, it's kinda funny how the researchers kinda "forgot" to put a value on Graduate School tuition...

        Not really, because it's kind of valueless. Somehow we manage to get PhDs in other countries without the vast amounts of classroom learning that Americans seem to do. Takes less time too.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rnturn ( 11092 )

      ``

      That's why it takes so long to finish a doctorate in the US -- you're working more than half time and essentially going to school or doing your own research when you have free time.

      ''

      Some Universities insist (or did, anyway) that you carry a full-time load as a student for one year of your program. That makes it really tough to make ends meet on the piddling stipends being offered. Get roommates or a spouse with a job (which, in a college town, will likely also pay very little). For a country that clai

    • Who decided you are supposed to be paid a "living wage" while going through the upper stages of an education? You are being educated; you are not engaged in full-time employment. People have chosen to forego full-time employment while pursuing graduate work with the expectation of higher wages and/or status once they acquire their degree. I worked as a teaching assistant while doing my graduate work and never once did I think, "How come no one is paying me a living wage?" I felt lucky that I was able to ear

  • ... income wise. My sister in law has a PhD in biology and I earn 10k more than she, as a meager PHP/WordPress dev without any academic credentials. Biology, AFAICT, simply is overbooked with candidates. That a bio PhD can't make a living in some parts of the US isn't all that surprising to me.

  • Sometimes phd students don’t even get paid the wage they were promised. This puts the research student in a difficult position of needing to find other work to substitute they pay they were meant to get.

    The student should fight the situation, but they don’t always know their rights or are too stressed out about focusing on their underpaid research, since they are worrying about future career and reputation.

    This actually happened to some who came to work for the tech startup I was part of. End r

    • They could simply borrow the money for their college, like other students do... Being a Phd student is not a JOB, they are LUCKY to have the opportunity to work for tuition + cash rather than take on more debt.

      • They could simply borrow the money for their college, like other students do... Being a Phd student is not a JOB, they are LUCKY to have the opportunity to work for tuition + cash rather than take on more debt.

        Phd students are doing research that a university can potentially be licensing out. This not your undergrad degree. Also, if the university wants their researchers to be working full time, then they had better cover basic living expenses, otherwise the quality of the research will likely go down the drain and professors will be frustrated that things are moving forward. A phd student should not be taking a loan out to subsidise research.

        I’d argue while being a phd student is not a job in the tradition

    • Sometimes phd students donâ(TM)t even get paid the wage they were promised.

      We have laws to protect them from such abuses, are they too ignorant to understand basic contract law?

  • We're talking about STUDENT wages (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kenh ( 9056 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @03:19PM (#62573142) Homepage Journal

    At the University of Florida in Gainesville, for example, the basic stipend for biology PhD students is around US$18,650 for a 9-month appointment, about $16,000 less than the annual living wage for a single adult in the city with no dependents.

    Question, what stipends are offered to undergraduate students? Nothing. Phd candidates are offered tuition, stipends, and housing in some cases, literally being paid while attending school to earn an advanced degree.

    Boo-Hoo.

    Add in the non-cash compensation offered to 'working' Phd candidates and then compare them to the 'living wage calculator'.

    What they are saying is, if you ignore tuition and other benefits offered (meals? Medical care? Housing?) then they are paid poorly.

    As a final note, I point out that working phd students get 3-4months off for summer break, freeing them up to go out and fill the earnings gap their 9 month job offers.

    • Undergraduates are supposed to study all the time. PhD students are apprentices who are supposed to do actual work all the time. In developed countries like the US, the majority of actual science is done by PhD students, not professional scientists.

      "working phd students get 3-4months off for summer break" No they do not. PhD students are not entitled to a single day off. It's at the discretion of their supervisor.

      • Undergraduates are supposed to study all the time. PhD students are apprentices who are supposed to do actual work all the time. In developed countries like the US, the majority of actual science is done by PhD students, not professional scientists.

        "working phd students get 3-4months off for summer break" No they do not. PhD students are not entitled to a single day off. It's at the discretion of their supervisor.

        I went to graduate school and had to work my way though out of it. I was in 7 days a week. Then I went postgraduate where I was basically worked like a slave 80 hours a week for 4 years. I'm still $200,000 in debt. Fuck you.

        • If you are smart enough to earn a phd, you were smart enough to understand you voluntarily took on $200K in student debt, and (hopefully) you were smart enough to choose a field of study that would pay enough to pay off your $200K in student loans.

          It's none of my business, but I would love to know your field of study - not to question your chosen field, but to understand which field requires a PhD but doesn't pay enough to justify the investment.

          • Medicine. You asked.

            The way this works in America (explaining because most people don't know this) is you like everybody else go to high school. Then you do 4 years of undergraduate. Then you fight tooth and nail to get into a medical school where the admissions process is a labyrinthian monstrosity where they care more about how much overseas work you did for Habitat for Humanity or your diversity or whatever. So you almost have to relocate. Then you spend 4 years in the medical school where the first two

  • You probably shouldn't be getting the degree.

    There isn't a decent sized company in the U.S. that doesn't offer education benefits. If you are doing work for an advisor at a university and paying for the courses and doing the work for whatever next to nothing they offer, you're a sucker.

  • When I was a grad student, engineering grad student TAs were paid 1,000 to 1,200 a month. But agriculture grad student TAs were paid $300 to $400 a month. There were a group of ag grad students that I knew that lived in the unremodeled basement of a former abattoir -- using the old meat locker industrial refrigerators as "apartments" and sleeping on top of WWII era desks. The meat hook trains were still built into the ceiling. Very dystopian. Rent at the time was about $300/mo for an efficiency, so cl

  • As a not-too-distant graduate (Score:3)

    by physicsphairy ( 720718 ) on Saturday May 28, 2022 @04:49PM (#62573334)

    It was amazing going from having to pay that amount per semester in undergrad to receiving that amount in graduate. Like most college students I had roommates and ate cheaply. No complaints. People getting their MD are racking up 50k debt a semester with no offset. Many humanitarian grads aren't getting stipends either.

    In the list of actual problems, STEM students getting only moderate compensation + free tuition during their doctoral years is close to bottom of the list. The average PhD grad makes ~$100k/year.

    • The average STEM Undergrad also makes 100K a year so 6 years spent doing a PhD means 600K of lost earnings. You cant compare undergrads and grads. Undergrads have no credentials so their opportunity cost is min wage 15000 a year but any grad student could go work in Industry for 100K. So its is criminal they have to live in poverty while doing the research which earns millions for the University. its the same as with college athletes. Colleges earn millions from them but dont let them earn. Thats changing n
  • And I'm still fielding off a bunch of loans from post-graduate school. Fuck you. Fuck you in the mouth. Fuck you in the anus. Fuck you in the vagina, and if you don't have one then try to cram my member up your urethra.

  • Rough it for a few years and come out the other end with a degree. Nothing in life is free, everything requires some degree of sacrifice. If you haven't learned that in all the time leading up to tackling a PhD, then your education in life has failed you OR (more likely) you really aren't good at learning. Gird your loins, suck it up and when you're in a position to make things different for the students of the future, then do it.

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