UK Government Says Video Game Loot Boxes Will Not Be Regulated (bbc.com) 55
The UK government has decided video game loot boxes will not be regulated under betting laws, despite it finding a link between them and gambling harms. From a report: In a long-awaited call for evidence, it instead told the video game industry to take action to protect young people. It says it will step in if firms do not act, and also wants loot box purchases to be restricted to adults, unless approved by a parent or guardian. One academic said he was "dismayed" by the government's approach. Loot boxes are an in-game feature involving a sealed mystery "box" -- sometimes earned through playing a game and sometimes paid for with real money -- which can be opened to reveal virtual items, such as weapons or costumes. They have come under fire in recent years, with consumer groups in 18 European countries backing a report calling them "exploitative" in May.
Tory Bastards (Score:5, Informative)
The Tory party is all about the rich exploiting the poor, so they're generally in favour of gambling. There's no surprises here.
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Well it's a good thing they Brexited because now when the EU regulates or bans them, the UK can keep doing its own thing and allow in-game gambling to continue as before. Brexit FTW!
Or, you know, we can just vote the Tories out democratically instead.
Exploitative? (Score:1, Troll)
How come when some idiot blows 20 grand on lootboxes it’s somebody else’s fault? You can’t protect people from themselves.
If you are going to give me that bullshit answer about how it plays into some flawed aspect of human nature, no shit. Everything does that. It’s your responsibility to control yourself. Not somebody else.
Re:Exploitative? (Score:5, Insightful)
So you're perfectly alright with stealing all the money from someone with a very low IQ by tricking them?
Or taking a blind man's groceries?
Because that's what lootboxes do, preying on people's disabilities.
It's all well and nice saying "Your reponsibility to control yourself." when you're an all perfect specimen of humankind. But a lot of people are not. And you're getting dangerously close to "Oh it's just in your head" territory.
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Both your examples are theft, and both are punishable by law.
Your examples helped his argument, not yours.
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Yes? And? The whole article was about making things illegal by law? I think you missed the context.
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Quite the contrary.
Both your examples are about theft of property where the victim clearly doesn't want to part with their belongings.
Loot boxes are more similar to selling tobacco and alcohol, and even more similar to playing lottery and scratch tickets, or gambling in Las Vegas. Someone who can't control themselves will fall for any and all of the above just the same.
Should they all be regulated? Yes, without doubt. Made illegal? Perhaps, after you made everything else illegal, from owning firearms throug
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Is an MMO boss with random possible loot a "loot box?"
This is more complicated than you may think.
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Only if you have to pay real money for a boss or raid pass every time you fight the boss, then maybe it would count. The issue with loot boxes is paying real money to gamble on getting good loot. Random loot in a game without real money involved beyond game purchase or subscription fees is not an issue.
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Wouldn't a monthly sub count in that instance? This is why I am not a lawyer, too much grey.
Personally nothing needs to be done, fools and money are always soon parted, it's just a question of who is the fool.
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Wouldn't a monthly sub count in that instance? This is why I am not a lawyer, too much grey.
No, a monthly subscription to play a game is a common and accepted practice. For example your local bowling or darts league, or any other organized activity, will generally have an upfront cost associated with it to cover facility rental. Your monthly subscription is paying to maintain the servers and provide a facility to play the game, nothing more.
Personally nothing needs to be done, fools and money are always soon parted, it's just a question of who is the fool.
The issue here is far more complex than "fools and money" unfortunately, lootboxes are designed specificially to both target children and those with compulsi
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Only if you have to pay real money for a boss or raid pass every time you fight the boss, then maybe it would count. The issue with loot boxes is paying real money to gamble on getting good loot. Random loot in a game without real money involved beyond game purchase or subscription fees is not an issue.
It's still an issue because it hooks you into infinite playing. It's the same as alcoholism and drug addictions.
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If you have to pay real, hard cash to pop the boss open like a pinata, yes. If I have to buy an item for real money to summon the boss, yes. If I have to pay money to "identify" the item, yes.
You might notice a theme here.
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But LEGALLY, how is that different than a monthly sub? You're paying per month of killing bosses, so that's "better" than per access to boss? Looks like that's only a discount.
This is why I postulate they dropped it, this grey area, where do you draw the line?
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If you really don't understand how one is more using addiction tendencies than the other, it's not exactly easy to explain it in a way that you would read without your eyes glazing over, sorry.
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I do understand that, but that's not what I am arguing. I'm arguing that per box or per month are the same transaction type, you're paying to get random stuff.
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Yes. But "loot boxes" dropped during normal part of the game which do not require money to repeatedly access are not related as gambling because the user doesn't hand over money, even in countries where loot boxes are banned.
It's okay. You're allowed to have fun. No one is taking that away from you. But your idea of fun shouldn't be paying money with the hope that maybe you can progress a game designed to get you to gamble on being it.
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"Addiction" isn't the problem. It's what leads to addiction that's the problem. But based on your comment I doubt you'd understand that, unfortunately.
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you can stop being an addict by taking responsibility for your own actions
Lemme guess, you have no clue whatsoever what leads to addictions or what an addiction is like, correct?
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Wrong answer. You could've just said "No, I don't have a clue." Much easier.
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A simple "yes" would have sufficed.
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Yep, I definitely do have a clue on both and also know how I overcame it.
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Then I have to wonder how you manage to be so clueless. Or do you just deliberately tune out a little detail?
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Government-run lotteries do that all the time.
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Indeed. And they are regulated, and limited in audience.
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Not just the disabled, they have lootboxes in games for children whose self control is not fully developed. They are often "free", at least in monetary terms, but encourage sinking huge amounts of time into the game.
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Not just the disabled, they have lootboxes in games for children whose self control is not fully developed. They are often "free", at least in monetary terms, but encourage sinking huge amounts of time into the game.
And how do you think people develop self-control? Let me tell you, NOT by the government removing all the opportunity to exercise it in a low-risk setting. If a kid blows his monthly pocket money on lootboxes then that's a perfect lesson in life, without any long term damage. Instead the lefties would have them experiment with crack, cus "war on drugs is bad".
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Parent’s responsibility, not government.
Yes, actually (Score:3)
https://www.bbc.com/news/techn... [bbc.com]
Re:Exploitative? (Score:5, Informative)
Video game makers are deliberately using drug-dealer-like tactics to hook up kids and adults to spend their time and money on the microtransation-based games. First loot box is usually free. You get extra loot boxes the more you play (daily/weekly/monthly participation rewards). Many games have a social system (ie. guilds/teams) that hooks player more and makes it harder for players to leave their games. The virtual currencies (in-game gold, crystals, etc) are deliberately introduced to hide the true cost of buying in-game items.
Check the website Dark Pattern Games [www.darkpattern.games] for a list of tricks that game developers use to hook their players into infinite playing and spending.
And I recommend watching the South Park episode "Freemium Isn't Free" [fandom.com] which perfectly sums up the toxicity and addictiveness of mobile games.
Re:Exploitative? (Score:4, Informative)
How Dopamine Impacts Gaming [gamequitters.com]
Stages of Video Game Addiction [healthygamer.gg]
Behind the addictive psychology and seductive art of loot boxes [pcgamer.com]
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Gambling and drugs (as in heroine, cocaine, etc.) share the same addiction mechanism. It's all about dopamine - the hormone of reward, or strictly speaking: expectation of a reward.
You know what else causes you to produce dopamine? exercise, petting your cat/dog, beating the boss in a video game, eating, looking at art, songs, etc... Should those be banned too?
Just because something causes a dopamine release does not automatically mean it is uses drug dealer tactics
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Also note that most of the things you have mentioned have a natural limit of retrying the dopamine-releasing action.
You can't exercise infinitely, sooner or later you will get tired.
You can't pet your cat/dog infinitely - you or the pet will get tired.
You can't eat infinitely - your stomach has limited capacity. Yet there are obsessive/compulsive eating disorders that qualify as addictions.
You can enjoy art or music all da
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If you are going to give me that bullshit answer about how it plays into some flawed aspect of human nature, no shit. Everything does that. It’s your responsibility to control yourself. Not somebody else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Seriously, James Stephanie Sterling lays out the problems with lootboxes so incredibly in this video.
In general, I agree that people are ultimately responsible for their own behavior and I generally prefer avoiding government intervention where possible...but by the same token, I would submit that there is at least a case to be made that it is reasonable to do one of two things:
1. Apply casino regulations to games with "surprise mechanics". If real money is exchanged for an
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Gambling is widely recognised as exploitative. Just because you don't understand why, how it works on the human mind, and why we relate it doesn't make it any less exploitative.
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Have a loot box offer free abortions. Modern problems require modern solutions.
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I also think that one of the problems is that gambling is literally everywhere in the UK. So making it a "gambling" issue is going to have a lot of people go "Uh? Yeah? So what?", because they've been soaked in gambling ads all their lives.
Randomness is not always gambling (Score:3)
Oh well (Score:1)
So many parents need parenting lessons, and they need to get them the hard way.
So little Suzy racks up a 1,000$ US bill feeding her Cuddlesnugglepuss and the company who runs Fluffy Happy Pets Marshmallowblabbityblabblab gets mommy for that thousand, then too bad so sad. Mommy can go to the seedy dive restaurant and wash dishes to pay off that bill.
Re: Oh well (Score:2)
So it's a win win. Mommy learns a valuable life lesson on parenting, and little Suzy does not become a screen zombie.
Nobody regulates anything in the UK (Score:2)
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.