Coinbase Faces SEC Probe on Crypto Listings

Coinbase is facing a US probe into whether it improperly let Americans trade digital assets that should have been registered as securities, Bloomberg reported Tuesday, citing people familiar with the matter. From the report: The US Securities and Exchange Commission's scrutiny of Coinbase has increased since the platform expanded the number of tokens in which it offers trading, said two of the people, who asked not to be named because the inquiry hasn't been disclosed publicly. The probe by the SEC's enforcement unit predates the agency's investigation into an alleged insider trading scheme that led the regulator last week to sue a former Coinbase manager and two other people. "We are confident that our rigorous diligence process -- a process the SEC has already reviewed -- keeps securities off our platform, and we look forward to engaging with the SEC on the matter," Chief Legal Officer Paul Grewal said on Twitter.

Failed Dodge Throw.

[splutty]

They failed their dodge throw, despite often and loudly proclaiming they can't/should not/don't want to be regulated.

Maybe the one responsible for the delusion failed to shout hard enough at the start of the day. Who knows.

I must say I'm utterly surprised by this (that was sarcasm).

Re:

[autocaret]

It's just the governments trying to shut a loophole. They don't want to lose power over people's pockets.

Re:Failed Dodge Throw.

[splutty]

There is no loophole. On one side is law and regulation that has been in existence for the last 80 years, on the other hand are companies that extremely obviously fall under those regulations, but ignore them and shout that they don't.

Re:

[Applehu Akbar]

I trade my crypto under a fake and untraceable alias. Good luck taxing me on this shit you thieving assholes.

So how many hospitals have you cleaned out through ransomware so far?

Re:

[ctilsie242]

Your cryptocurrency may be in a wallet that is well protected, but the blockchain links and the amount of sophistication to track people down using that with Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies, which will likely will reveal whom the wallet holder is. Even moving cryptocurrency to/from Monero is difficult, and moving money to a spendable format is even harder, due to all the exchanges doing that doing KYC/AML. You can try individuals, but caveat emptor/caveat venditor. Tainted coins are even more of a thin

Re:

[gravewax]

Good luck, just make sure you never use the coins for purchasing anything, especially anything physical or ever convert into real money. I have a friend that thought like you do, he is currently dealing with a 150k tax debt from previous years trading + fines after a recent audit when the idiot started withdrawing some funds and he doesn't have the funds to pay it since Crypto has crashed.

aracde tokens / card points are not securities

[Joe_Dragon]

aracde tokens / card points are not securities and they can't be changed back to cash. Also arcades pay taxes / sticker fees on the games.

and other laws very state to state on them / arcade tickets

Re:

[bloodhawk]

It really is quite simple. If you sell something for a profit or loss it generally has tax implications. Arcade tokens are not securities or money, however if you happen to sell them for a profit yes that would also have tax implications (i.e. the arcade will be paying tax). nothing silly or confusing about it. Crypto Coins should be thought of as Stock certificates as far as Tax is concerned. it doesn't matter whether it is crypto, arcade tokens or you trading pumpkins for eggs, they are transactions that

Re:

[bloodhawk]

Tax is liable based on if the item was converted to cash. To only do it when converted to cash would open massive tax evasion loopholes. Whether you purchase with fiat, crypto coins or barter with eggs the value is assessed as if the asset was converted to cash and that is the way it needs to be otherwise you have an easy option for people to never pay tax.

Re:

[bloodhawk]

It isn't a wash trade. Whether it is tokens or any other item. It is treated as if you sold the item for cash and bought a new item as you have effectively disposed of an asset and hence have a tax liability. This is taxed this way so you can't use trading to dodge your tax obligations.

Re:

[gravewax]

its two transactions as far as tax is concerned not one. a sale and a separate buy. If it wasn't this way a massive amount of people would suddenly pay no tax. Want to buy a house, well I will just trade my shares for your house, a wash sale so I don't owe tax on the shares, or how about that boat, lets wash trade my crypto for your boat etc etc.

Re:

[SirSpanksALot]

Bingo - A security is something tied to an *interest* in a thing. (IE - A peice of a company, contract (like an option, or a bond)) Crypto currency *is* a thing, akin a gold bar, or a random rock, or whatever. If those gold bars, or rocks, or chuck-e-cheese tokens are not securities, neither is a crypto-token.

Old And New

[JBMcB]

Federal agencies of the past:

Business: "Hey SEC, do I need to register as a securities exchange given this business model?"
SEC: "Is your business on the list? No? Then you don't, until Congress says you have to."

Federal agencies of the present:
Business: "Hey SEC, do I need to register as a securities exchange given this business model?"
SEC: Shrugs shoulders. "We don't know. Maybe. We have to check, we'll get back to you."
Business: "So, should we register?"
SEC: "Hang on, we'll get back to you."
Two years late

Re:Old And New

[Train0987]

The Howey Test has been a thing for over 70 years. The SEC is not a consultant that's supposed to hold your hand, they're a regulatory and enforcement body.

Re:Old And New

[mattaw2001]

I would disagree quite a lot here about your timeline and characterization of the SEC. While the crypto companies have spent a lot of money to make the SEC actions appear "new" and "capricious" the main lawmaking around the SEC was 1939-1940 after the great crash which saw so many ordinary folks lose their savings to effectively unregulated securities which in many cases were scams.

Companies and industries have been trying to weasel around the SEC regulation almost as soon as it was created, and we have thousands of cases and enforcement actions around every kind of scheme you can think of.

There does seem to be a 1:1 correspondence with how many recent crypto schemes and coins (anything with yield, or most ICOs) have worked with the existing body of case law - adding in the word "crypto" doesn't change anything much at all, especially when there have been so many different varieties of fraud in almost 100 years.

TLDR is that every crypto scheme offering a yield or ICO which is offered with the idea that early buy in will give returns is 100% in the SEC's regulatory power, and every one of them should have expected this to come up. That the crypto schemers are spending money and time to persuade everyone that "this has never happened before", "its new government overreach", and "this is completely unexpected" is annoying.

Re:

[gravewax]

That sounds like a very exchange blinkered view of what really happened.

More accurate
Business : We don't fall under the SEC regulations.
SEC : Any issuing of securities falls under the SEC
Business : cool we are saying we don't deal with securities so all good.
SEC hang on a minute, you don't get to decide what a security is. Here is the definition.
Business : ignores it till the SEC comes hunting
Business : WTF Government overreach. We decided we didn't want to be regulated by the SEC, they have no rig

Re:

[ISayWeOnlyToBePolite]

Federal agencies of the past:

Business: "Hey SEC, do I need to register as a securities exchange given this business model?"
SEC: "Is your business on the list? No? Then you don't, until Congress says you have to."

Federal agencies of the present:
Business: "Hey SEC, do I need to register as a securities exchange given this business model?"
SEC: Shrugs shoulders. "We don't know. Maybe. We have to check, we'll get back to you."
Business: "So, should we register?"
SEC: "Hang on, we'll get back to you."
Two years later
SEC: "You've been operating as a securities exchange for two years in violation of these regulations..."

The best part is, nowadays, you'll get dragged in front of a judge that works for the SEC, it will be an "administrative" hearing meaning you have no constitutional protections regarding evidence or legal council, and, even if you are completely innocent and settle with favorable terms, there will be a gag order in place and you aren't allowed to tell anyone about it. All your investors will see in the public record is that charges were brought against you and you settled.

The SEC is a very important regulatory agency, but their regulations have become Kafkaesque as of late.

That's not an accurate description. SEC chair Gary Gensler March 4 “It's a question of whether they're registered or they're operating outside of the law and I'll leave it at that,” https://finance.yahoo.com/news... [yahoo.com]

Celsius is next

[smooth wombat]

With the collapse of Celsius, people are realizing that "stablecoin" isn't that stable. One guy had to tell his pregnant wife he lost $100,000 in Celsius [futurism.com]. Took out a loan for the mone and everything.

The hilarity is only just beginning.

Re:

[gweihir]

Well, that is tough on the wife. She married and is pregnant from a moron. For the guy, I have zero compassion. He tried to get rich quick and it failed.

Crypto scam recovery

[jeremiahhardist]

Falling victim of a scam can be depressing, you were given empty promises. They usually stop replying after achieving their aim with hurts even more, i have been there too as i was too ambitious and wanted financial security which made me invest a huge chunk of my life savings. I never thought i would be getting back a dime back and already lost hope until i contacted a team which was just a leap of faith as i wasn't going to go down without a fight. Hacktified with the help of their support team was able a

Re:

[gweihir]

I see the derived scams are alive and well. Not that this is in any way original.