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Chinese Behemoth Pinduoduo To Take On Amazon In US (theguardian.com) 64

Posted by BeauHD from the brace-yourselves dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Americans addicted to Amazon could soon be wooed by a Chinese tech giant most of them have never heard of. Pinduoduo is planning to expand its reach to the US next month, according to reports in Bloomberg and Reuters. The company is known for delivering goods at rock-bottom prices -- while putting its employees through conditions that a prominent labor activist says should horrify Americans. Described by its founder, the former Google employee Colin Huang, as a cross between "Costco and Disneyland," Pinduoduo has ridden a wave of meteoric Chinese tech growth to become one of the largest e-commerce companies in the world since its founding in 2015.

Pinduoduo targeted China's smaller cities and more rural areas, where consumers tend to be less wealthy and more cost-conscious, says JS Tan, an MIT graduate student who researches the Chinese tech industry. Its signature feature is "group buying," which allows users to organize people to make mass purchases directly from manufacturers at a steep discount. Because Pinduoduo is heavily integrated with WeChat, China's top social media platform, it's a snap for users to gather up friends, family and internet strangers to order big batches of everything from electronics to baby formula to groceries -- something that became a lifeline during China's strict Covid lockdowns.

"Pinduoduo is known for its extreme overtime," said Li Qiang, a veteran labor activist and founder of the non-profit China Labor Watch. "The competition is extremely intense, and the conditions are much crueler than in America." Two Pinduoduo employees died within a two-week period from December 2020 to January 2021, igniting a national scandal. The first worker, 22-year-old Zhang Fei, died on 29 December, when she was heading home around 1.30am after a series of extremely long shifts. The second worker, an engineer in his 20s, jumped to his death on 9 January after abruptly asking for leave from the company and traveling home the same day. The controversy grew when days later, a Pinduoduo employee who called himself Wang Taixu said he had been fired by the company after posting a photo of a colleague being taken into an ambulance after collapsing. Wang subsequently published a lengthy video on the video-sharing site Bilibili detailing labor abuses he had witnessed at the company; he alleged that some workers were made to work as many as 380 hours a month, which the company denied. "I think that for American tech workers, this definitely isn't a good thing," said Li. "In terms of manufacturing costs, American companies have no way to compete with Pinduoduo. If Pinduoduo succeeds, it could take Chinese-style labor practices and bring them to America."
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Chinese Behemoth Pinduoduo To Take On Amazon In US More

Chinese Behemoth Pinduoduo To Take On Amazon In US

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  • Yeah no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by memory_register ( 6248354 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @07:04PM (#62823979)
    It's bad enough having an American behemoth knowing everything I buy. A CCP behemoth is a bridge too far - at any price.

    • yes, but just think of the _competitive wages_ they can bring to existing megafirms here in the US.

    • Nothing to worry bout (Score:5, Funny)

      by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @11:54PM (#62824457) Journal
      I wouldn't worry too much. Given it is "a cross between Costco and Disneyland" it's clearly just a cheap, mickey-mouse operation.

    • It's bad enough having an American behemoth knowing everything I buy. A CCP behemoth is a bridge too far - at any price.

      For sure I'm keeping my data away from the CCP as much as possible.

      But still, I'd love someone to compete with Amazon. I hate supporting the monopoly but they're the only big general market place out there. The only real competitors are big retail chain online stores and eBay, but the retail chains don't have the breadth of selection and eBay is much less convenient.

    • What's your problem with CCP Games?
      https://www.ccpgames.com/ [ccpgames.com]

    • Yep, my thought exactly. I bet this plays well in the US central and southern states...
      • Amazon search is so bad it must be deliberately and on purpose messed up the way it is.
        If this new company’s search results are not poisoned like on Amazon then this will be Netflix snuffing Block Buster.
    • ok konger

  • USPS is going to have fits (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    All that cheap Chinese tat you can get by slow boat? Part of the extreme cheapness is because of outdated international postal tariffs. Meaning the USPS essentially subsidises your alibaba purchases.

    Now this amazon-like Chinese company can operate from China and abuse its labour force Chinese style, hurting the USPS even more, or it can move a presence stateside and then it cannot abuse its workforce quite in the same style, thus it is less able to undercut amazon et al. So something will have to give.

    • Interesting, if true.

    • Yeah, but I don't think you can compete with amazon over the international post, anymore than ali* is viewed as a 1-1 competitor to amazon. There are already dozens-hundreds of websites in that space. They'd need to be opening lots of logistical centers in the US for this to be worth a news article.

  • wework 6-20-6! or you don't work for us!

  • The 996 work culture, mandatory overtime and other tools of exploitation. are not that easy to import in the US. If it was, all those gadgets we know and love would be made here instead of there.

    • I was going to say the exact opposite, their labour practices are worse than Amazon? How do they manage that? Do they have demons flaying their staff with fiery whips or something? And if not, they could enter the US by hiring away Amazon staff, they'll be preconditioned to Pinduoduo's work environment.

  • Find a bunch of Chinese products and let people buy them through a click of a web browser. I feel like this is well tread ground.

  • holy trinity of clickbait! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by znrt ( 2424692 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @07:34PM (#62824057)

    china bashing, amazon and worker rights all in one thread. this is going to cost me a fucking trailer worth of popcorn, but this could start a fricken religion ...

  • It's as if (enforced) labour laws would easily prevent competition from such foreign companies.

    But no, because some dickhead wants to squeeze obscene amounts of money, they open the door for worse companies at rock bottom prices to compete.

  • Yeah, I doubt it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @07:47PM (#62824075) Homepage

    I think this PR flack just fundamentally misunderstands how Americans shop and spend money. Just look at how much money Americans will spend on sunglasses, when almost every luxury brand is owned by the same company and probably no single pair costs more than $4 to produce.

    All it would take would be for a savvy, US-native marketer to wave a couple fingers, and everyone in America would understand that this new website is nothing but a place to buy cheap Chinese crap from enslaved people working for scammers.

    Don't believe me? Look how easy it's been to convince Americans that Amazon isn't that.

    • I think this PR flack just fundamentally misunderstands how Americans shop and spend money. Just look at how much money Americans will spend on sunglasses, when almost every luxury brand is owned by the same company and probably no single pair costs more than $4 to produce.

      That's why even though they cost a bit, I like to buy my sunglasses and regular glasses frame from a local group here in New Orleans: KREWE [krewe.com].

      These are really cool. [krewe.com] and I've had a pair of them for years.

      They are also really good ab

  • Kill the USPS Deal With China Post (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sc0t ( 10132216 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @08:02PM (#62824093)
    .. End the current ePacket arrangement the US Postal Service has with China Post. Force all the manufacturers in China dumping product on Ali Express, Amazon, and any future endeavor to pay fair & competitive shipping fees to get their products into the United States. This move alone would force companies like "Pinduoduo" to absorb shipping costs that would drive prices up to prevent dumping, and alternately consider opening warehouses in the United States, which would expose them to hundreds if not thousands of local, state and federal codes, ordinances and laws regulating every facet of their facilities and labor force. They'd be forced to construct buildings that meet code, employ Americans at minimum wage+ who would at least be somewhat protected by working hours, workers' compensation, unemployment and other considerations. But seriously - kill the ePacket deal USPS has with China Post. It's how the Chinese are able to manufacture shit for pennies in Guangong, advertise it online in the U.S. and ship it to your house in 10-14 days _at no cost._
    • How that deal ever got into place makes no sense since it is clearly anti-competitive to American Businesses that actually are located in the US.
    • The packet deal with China has an UPSIDE for USA. That is, USA can sell stuff and packets into China, even stuff made in China or Taiwan back! I suspect this two way opportunity is not used, because Amazon has too big market share, and there is chump change in selling used goods back to China. Even Amazon returns, are being put into landfill. Amazon should redirect returns to anyone in China who signs up. That would really put a spanner in China post.

  • 380 hours per month is about 12 hours per day, with no days off. If you're in a tech startup, or, like me, run your own small business, that just goes with the territory.

    If you want 8 hours of sleep each day, a 12 hours workday leaves 4 hours for awake, non-work time. An hour to get up in the morning, an hour for dinner, and a couple of hours free in the evening before you crash. As a graduate student, I did that for years, often spending those couple of hours in the evening working on my thesis.

    380 hour

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by piojo ( 995934 )

      All three of the situations you described are an investment in oneself. If you work that kind of hours (two hours free time max) just for a wage, you might as well be dead. You won't even have the time to look for a better job, let alone the energy.

  • How many times do you run into sellers on Amazon with names like ADJQUE that sell Chinese knockoffs for cheap prices, with no seller feedback history, that disappear in a month or two. It only takes once, buying something from these guys to learn to stay away. What exactly will this new Chinese company add to the mix?

    • It only takes once, buying something from these guys to learn to stay away. What exactly will this new Chinese company add to the mix?

      Exactly this. When I do buy something on Amazon I'm always careful to watch for the "Sold and shipped by Amazon" label, if I don't I tend to avoid it at all costs unless independent online research shows the seller is reputable and won't just steal my cash while providing garbage in return. Now if only Amazon would include a search box which would filter out stuff not sold and shipped by them so I can avoid scam shit, it's a royal pain looking for something only to find a dozen or more "sellers" with craz

  • There are so many products to copy, they actually have to make another company just to distribute the knockoffs more efficiently.

  • I actually quit (Score:3, Informative)

    by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday August 25, 2022 @09:44PM (#62824269)
    amazon because of all the cheap crap on there (and not wanting to pay for prime).

    The first problem I have with Chinese goods is they are dangerous. Especially chargers for various devices. They fake the UL markings (I looked up the serials and they were faked) and they don't do testing, so it could start your house on fire. (Mine actually melted partially).

    The other problem is Chinese goods don't last, many of them break withing a year, not cool. I'm not saying that some stuff isn't good but a lot of it you can buy and throw directly in the trash.
    • Why do you have to pay for prime? Any order over $25 can ship for free if you are willing to wait a few days.

      Just make sure Amazon.com is the seller, I stopped buying from from anyone else on Amazon.com because well, junk that quite frankly most of which should already be disallowed by consumer protection laws but somehow is not. When I do want to gamble on cheap junk I use Ebay and make sure it ships from within the country.

    • Sure, cheap crap is on Amazon. That's really not a reason to buy there at all. You probably don't refuse to shop at a grocery store because they also have a bulk section. If you're online dumpster-diving for an unreasonably cheap phone charger, or a $20 swiss army knife of a USB-C hub you're going to get a cheap Chinese one no matter where you shop.

      Don't get me wrong. There are lots of really good reasons not to use Amazon. I just think this line of reasoning kind of falls apart. As you said, some stuff is

  • "Lower manufacturing costs" wtf is this shit article talking about? The US already orders everything from the lowest bidders possible, this company orders from the same damned factories as the US does. The "we work our engineers to death as well" strategy is a just "we don't pay enough for good engineers so the only ones who work for us anymore are zombie dung." Especially with multiple studies showing reducing work weeks to 4 days from 5 doesn't cut productivity at most engineering companies anyway, let al
    • They also say it isn't good for American tech workers. WTF the only Americans they might hire will be warehouse handlers at minimum wage. Amazon beat them to it so I don't see any advantage here unless they plan to flood the market with lower priced crappier crap at a loss.
      • If you work in a warehouse or drive a vehicle for a company that happens to have an app, you are a "tech worker".

  • Chinese companies play the game on the tutorial level. Minimal enforced laws - labor, pollution, racism, etc. Worse, instead of lobbying the government, the government orders them to obey and they do. Throw in outright fear of China that is prevalent in US politics, and they will have a much harder time bribing, I mean lobbying the American government.

    Can they make stuff in China and ship it here? Yes. But they won't be able to run a warehouse/delivery system here. In other words, Amazon has the advan

  • ....has metastisised.

    The Chinese have taken it to the next level.

  • Search for torches, art pens, pasta makers, earbuds etc. and more likely than not you'll get a tidal wave of shit thrown back at you. Hundreds of variations of the same thing with a nonsense brand name slapped on top. What is the point of search "results" if results are all essentially for the same thing and the filter options are deliberately obnoxious and useless? On top of that you have fake reviews, brushing, counterfeits and knockoffs because all this stuff is just OEM trash manufactured in China.

    Ama

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      So I don't see the harm in some competition even if it's probably just more of the same - another bazaar selling OEM junk. Personally I don't know why anyone would use Amazon at all if that's all they're interested in. Alibaba / Aliexpress sells this stuff without any pretense and usually the prices are substantially less too.

      Mostly because everything takes 30 days to arrive, because it has to travel on a boat from China and go through customs two times (or more). It turns out that warehousing products in the U.S. costs money.

      • Not everything is shipped from China. Lots of Chinese good show up on Prime with one or two day shipping. Amazon orders the products in large quantity for pennies on the dollar (compared to name brand). Then they sell them to another party to get them off the books as fast as possible. The third party takes a small markup and sells these items with Prime shipping.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Not everything is shipped from China. Lots of Chinese good show up on Prime with one or two day shipping.

          I meant on AliExpress. Amazon charges more for the same products because they're already on this side of the ocean.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I'd say its worse than Walmart. I have no love for the big box stores, but when's the last time you heard of a Walmart employee jumping off a tall building?

  • ... simply put, American unionization will put the company on the ropes in short order. You can treat American workers like crap only for so long before a ground swell of activism takes you down. Amazon can get away with a lot because it is an American company with hooks in to the politicians but no Chinese company will get that political backing.

    REAL GOAL and THREAT: they will be a fair employer adhering to American labour law better than Amazon. They will attract employees and market share with their

  • Amazon.

    And we'll have a Chinese company to hate on too.

  • Yes, wouldn't it be terrible if rich Chinese industrialists put Americans to work under conditions almost as bad as American industrialists formerly put Chinese immigrants to work under?

    Personally, I think it's terrible for ANY industrialists to put ANY workers under inhumane & exploitative conditions. American law makers could easily prevent this by reforming labour laws. It'd make life a whole lot easier for the vast majority of Americans & it'd arguably lead to more economic activity if they di

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