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Earth

More Bad News for Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier': It's Disintegrating Faster Than We Predicted (msn.com) 145

The Washington Post reports: A large glacier in Antarctica that could raise sea levels several feet is disintegrating faster than last predicted, according to a new study published Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience.

The Thwaites Glacier — dubbed the "doomsday glacier" because scientists estimate that without it and its supporting ice shelves, sea levels could rise more than 3 to 10 feet — lies in the western part of the continent. After recently mapping it in high-resolution, a group of international researchers found that the glacial expanse experienced a phase of "rapid retreat" sometime in the past two centuries — over a duration of less than six months.


NBC News puts this in context: "About 100 years ago, it retreated faster than it is currently retreating... you could say that's good news because it's not so bad now compared to what it was in the past," Anna WÃ¥hlin, a co-author of the study and a professor of physical oceanography at Sweden's Gothenburg University, told NBC News. "But you can also say that it's bad news, because it could happen again."
But the Washington Post adds this about where we are now: According to a news release accompanying the study, researchers concluded that the glacier had "lost contact with a seabed ridge" and is now retreating at a speed of 1.3 miles per year — a rate double what they predicted between 2011 and 2019.

Unlike some other glaciers that are connected to dry land, Thwaites is grounded in the seabed, making it more vulnerable to warming waters as a result of human-induced climate change.

One of the study's co-authors warns that once the glacier retreats beyond a shallow ridge in its bed, "we should expect to see big changes over small time scales in the future — even from one year to the next." The article also notes that Thwaites already accounts for about 4% of the current annual rise in sea levels...
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More Bad News for Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier': It's Disintegrating Faster Than We Predicted

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  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:05AM (#62870093)
    Because if not I don't think it matters. Fact is the older generations are in charge because they had a baby boom and that means there's many times more of them right now they seem to be taking the attitude that at best God will take care of it and it worse they don't care because they'll be dead.
    • When people are pressed with affording ballooning energy costs and the prospects that they might not have adequate heating in the winter due to fuel shortages they're not going to vote in any way that takes a glacier into consideration. Be thankful that you've got it good enough that you can worry about such things or that you have any kind of vote at all.
      • by wierd_w ( 1375923 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:39AM (#62870169)

        Dont be silly. Look at Jacksonville. Has a huge portion of the population of the region, but rendered mostly unimportant by gerrymandering.

        As long as those with vested interests in headplanting about the issues remain able to just redefine the voting map to marginalize the people impacted, the effective vote will not be changed, and the fuckening will continue and get worse.

        Just like the people in Jacksonville are experiencing right now.

        Sure, the realization that their suffering is being caused by the melting of the glacier might sink in for some of them, even in the counties that benefit from the gerrymandering, but not enough to be significant.

        What will eventually break the status quo, is when the mismanagement has become so systemic, and the damage to the environment so incontrovertable and catastrophic as to endanger all human life. At that time, we will all be doomed, but we can at least be blessed with the knowledge that the naysayers will finally have to eat that dish of crow they have avoided for over a century now.

      • I think this is unnecessarily pessimistic. Where I am, we are facing a crisis because of lack of gas supply, and increasing electricity costs (caused by the same thing). At the same time we are building several GW of off-shore wind turbines a year and will be for the foreseable future. While some people are responding to the lack of gas by saying "we should pull more out of the North Sea" others are saying "is not dependency on fossil fuels, whether Russian or otherwise, the problem".

        I'm not going to tell y

      • Using more of technologies that don't rely on the thing in critically short supply currently would seem the best strategy.
    • It will at least give us better context in 50 years when our grandchildren take all our stuff and throw our bodies into the bio-recycler.

    • That attitude isn't unique to the Boomers. Despite all their bitching about Boomers "stealing their future" , Millennials are more than happy to see big government spending programs which are effectively funded by borrowing money from their kids. The "I want mine right now and to hell with the future" mindset is strong all across generations.
    • Fact is the older generations are in charge

      This is not a "generation" thing. It is a "people in power" thing. Speaking of generations and their "quirks" can be useful, but this is about power. It has nothing to do with any particular generation and waiting for new people to take power is not the panacea you think it is. This shit has been going on since societies first formed. Stop thinking in terms of generation.

  • Does anyone think it may be a deliberate strategy by climate scientists to knowingly make overly conservative estimates about the speed of climate heating & the severity of its effects so that they can then update us with the news, "It's worse than we previously thought"? If so, it's a good un' & hopefully will get more of the kinds of attention it needs.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Sorry, but there *is* a deliberate conspiracy among climate scientist to understate their conclusions.

        The reason, though, is that they were trying to get folks to believe them rather than to just go "O, that won't happen". This was documented during the creation of the IPCC reports, and it is (or was) out there in public for anyone to see who wanted to pay attention. The more extreme projections were deliberately cut out of the report. Then they averaged the more moderate ones.

        • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:17PM (#62870385) Journal

          The more extreme projections were deliberately cut out of the report. Then they averaged the more moderate ones.

          That's not a conspiracy, that's an M-estimator.

          Or:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          If your stats have more mass in the tails than a Gaussian, then ignoring extreme values will give you more accurate results. If your stats are Gaussian, then it will give the same expected mean, but with higher variance.

          There's a bunch of interpretations of what mean, median and all the other estimators mean, and what they do, but they all ultimately amount to the same type of conclusion.

          • by HiThere ( 15173 )

            And if you don't have a Gaussian distribution, and almost all the more extreme projections are at one end, you KNOW what cutting them off is going to do. And when a bunch of people get together to agree to do that, it's a conspiracy. Not all, or even most, conspiracies are illegal.

            • And if you don't have a Gaussian distribution, and almost all the more extreme projections are at one end, you KNOW what cutting them off is going to do.

              Yes: the smaller the central chunk is, the closer the answer is to the median. What this does to the variance depends on the shape of the distribution, but it can be beneficial. Worst case, it doesn't do much.

              Now tell me how the L1 norm is a conspiracy...

              Also, [citation fucking needed], bro. This is some weird shit conspiracy theory nonsense you're spewing

      • How do you go from a deliberate strategy to full-blown conspiracy theory? Don't you think that climate scientists might observe how others have managed their press releases & think, "Hmm... that looks like a good way to do it!" Scientists do tend to be quite smart within their respective fields of expertise, you know.
      • It wouldn't be the first time.

        Social Darwinism was accepted scientific fact for the first half of the 20th century. All right-minded people accepted it, and scientists researched it in various ways. Social advocates (like Margaret Sanger) built programs around it. So yes, there can be a conspiracy of thousands of scientists around the world.

        That absolutely doesn't mean climate science is a conspiracy. What it means is we shouldn't blindly follow authority (or blindly follow emotional TV personalities for th

        • There's a difference between being wrong and something being a conspiracy. A huge difference.
          • Which to be fair you did note.
            • Yeah, it doesn't really matter though. There are two options:

              1) It is a conspiracy. In that case, you have to look at the evidence.
              2) It is not a conspiracy. In that case, you have to look at the evidence.

              • by q_e_t ( 5104099 )

                Yeah, it doesn't really matter though. There are two options:

                1) It is a conspiracy. In that case, you have to look at the evidence. 2) It is not a conspiracy. In that case, you have to look at the evidence.

                Too often I see 3. It's a conspiracy, no need to look at the evidence.

    • by Miles_O'Toole ( 5152533 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:16AM (#62870121)

      Climate scientists have always been sensitive to claims that they're being a bunch of disaster preachers, so they've tended to be conservative in their estimates. Of course, this hasn't saved them from criticism by people with a vested interest in the current situation.

    • Like meteorologists, the climate scientists are notoriously bad at making long term predictions.
      • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @11:53AM (#62870329) Journal

        Fact check says: false.

        https://www.carbonbrief.org/an... [carbonbrief.org]

        Face it: this has been hashed out to death and the information is more than readily available. To have an opinion enough to post here at this point means you are choosing to be wrong. I do not really comprehend how you believe your emotional state and/or political proclivities will somehow affect reality. The predictions made in 1990 are out there. The temperature measurements are out there.

        You have no excuse.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          Fact check says: false.

          https://www.carbonbrief.org/an... [carbonbrief.org]

          Face it: this has been hashed out to death and the information is more than readily available. To have an opinion enough to post here at this point means you are choosing to be wrong. I do not really comprehend how you believe your emotional state and/or political proclivities will somehow affect reality. The predictions made in 1990 are out there. The temperature measurements are out there.

          You have no excuse.

          Really? Can you find some mid-2010's ground-level pictures of the Statue of Liberty that show it from sea-level to the above its raised torch, and then find some pictures from the early 1900's from similar vantage points? Compare them and, taking high/low tides into account, tell us how much sea level rise (or fall) is shown?
          From what I've seen in similarly-paired pictures is that there is no measurable change in the waterline on the island. What about islands like The Maldives? The Canary Islands?

          • Aaah the insane denialists come out in force. And yes insane is the right word. Denying reality is most certainly a form of insanity. And today, your reality denying trick is ... [checks list] ... moving the goalposts!

            There is nothing in what you wrote which contradicts my claims that the climate change prediction from 1990 for 2020 have come to pass in 2020.

            But you have a new trick up your sleeve:

            Can you find some mid-2010's ground-level pictures of the Statue of Liberty that show it from sea-level to the

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        This is especially true if you depend on the popular press for your understanding of what they're actually predicting.

        If you even read the summary carefully you will notice that they didn't make any particular claim about the future except that it was "concerning" And that there were "possible" dangers. If you want to go beyond that, you need to check what their actual predictions were, and what their error bars were. They did indicate that if certain future events happen, it could lead to rapid changes,

        • "If it bleeds, it leads" is still very much in force. The point of the news is not to inform you, but to inflame your emotions so you stay tuned in longer.
  • Putin will probably push the button on his way out and we won't have to worry about it.
  • The sentence for this century^Wdecade.

  • by Bu11etmagnet ( 1071376 ) on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:55AM (#62870199)

    In the immortal words of George Carlin:

    There's nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The people are fucked.
    [...]
    The planet isn't going anywhere. We are. We're going away.

  • You can do it! Don't give up now.

  • the glacier doesn't give a damn.

  • which will add pressure to the sea floor which will squeeze hot lava out at any weak spots in the earth crust the added heat will melt even more ice exacerbate the problem, we're doomed, i think all the rich people will move to orbit or the moon or mars while all us regular folks stay behind and suffer
  • Do we have until we are doomed? And what year did they anticipate collapse?
    • What YEAR? I guess the first digit will be a 2, and the second digit is unclear. Unlikely to be a 0, however.

  • If anybody wants action on this, I'll take one Bitcoin (Cash chain) payable in 2032 that the seas won't have risen four inches in New York Harbor.

  • next time an article is written again about doomsday glacier, it will be faster than predicted by the author in this article. it's doomed.
    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      If scientists noticed a cooling trend, they'd be tripping over each other to get their papers on the subject published. Rather, we have scientists looking at trends and deciding, with new data, that the trends are more severe. Now, go get your PhD in physics, do some studies, and then come back with something insightful instead of mouth drool from Fox.

      • "Rather, we have scientists looking at trends and deciding, with new data, that the trends are more severe."

        Oh, how I wish that was the way it was being done. Scientists are using "what-if" models for their predictions. Then when they wait long enough, the actual data catches up to them and show that their models are running just too damn hot. Then (the honest ones) say oops -- as is being done here in this very instance. The media, of course, turn this mistaken prediction based on models into an emotional

  • Germany stepped up and decided to keep 2/3 of its remaining nuclear reactors running. They cannot be accused of taking half measures on climate change. Still I wonder what would have happened if they had 4 reactors left
    So Now we beg of the Brazil: please elect at least 2/3 of Lula and 1/3 of Bolsonaro.
  • If all the people with the influence REALLY believed this shit, why do they CONTINUE buying property in at-risk flooding zones?

    And until they stop with all the performative "Look! We invented a biodegradeable phone case!" crap, and start ACTUALLY working to modernize our power grids, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

  • Whoever wrote that probably gonna get fired.
  • A more accurate headline.

  • There is a drought in the western and mid-western states in the USA!
    But NoOne wants to establish a chain of desalinization plants along the USA coastline!
    The US Navy has shown that this can be accomplished effectively. Naval personnel have said that their on-ship water comes from the salt water seas that they process for water needs. Why can't the USA do this. The planet is providing the water to meet our needs but nothing is done.
    We are wasteful!
  • You do know that there's a VOLCANO under there, right?

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

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