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New York Hires McKinsey for Containerization Study (streetsblog.org) 48

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The New York city has hired the controversial consulting firm McKinsey & Company to study its waste containerization needs and design a citywide pilot program, Streetsblog has learned. From the report: For the next 20 weeks, the global management consulting firm will assess streets across the city with an eye toward what could work in a large, diverse urban environment and identify models for a such as program from among the many different solutions around the world -- working with the Sanitation Department to figure out the kinds of containers it needs, find appropriate vendors, and structure costs.

New York is decades behind other world capitals in terms of waste collection and containerization, so there are many models from which to choose. (Barcelona and other cities have underground trash bins that are lifted out for collection.) The goal is for McKinsey to design a request for proposal that can ensure that "it is not just another pilot, but something that can actually work all over the city," DSNY spokesman Joshua Goodman said. "In other words, in a matter of months, we will have a final, market-ready Request for Proposals -- including recommended commercial terms, performance requirements, and specifications. The details on widespread, scalable containerization in New York City are finally almost here."
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New York Hires McKinsey for Containerization Study More

New York Hires McKinsey for Containerization Study

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  • I mean after all, the State of New York generates a lot of waste too. [cnn.com]

  • Book about McKinsey & Company (Score:4, Informative)

    by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @10:35AM (#62937209) Homepage
    Book about McKinsey & Company:

    When McKinsey Comes to Town: The Hidden Influence of the World's Most Powerful Consulting Firm [amazon.com]

    "An explosive, deeply reported exposé of McKinsey & Company, the international consulting firm that advises corporations and governments, that highlights the often drastic impact of its work on employees and citizens around the world."

  • ...cloud dev story. Psych.

    • Well to your point as it will involve NYC, Docks will be used...

      And then they'll have to orchestrate the containers..

      Unfortunately, anything a gov't does is less efficient, overly complex and more costly than what we use in Software Engineering.

      • I don't live in an densely packed urban environment (and God willing, I never will have to)....so, can someone explain to me why they can't just use trash cans, these days usually on wheels, to just put their trash into, wheel it to the street for the trucks to come by and pick them up and empty them into the garbage truck?

        This is how it works in pretty much all of the rest of the US that I've seen.

        These trash bins are pretty much standard in every other city I've visited in recent history...so, how much

        • They used to, but apparently a Sanitation union strike in 1968 changed that. City moved to bags because they were easier for workers to lift and they were quieter.

          https://nyc.streetsblog.org/20... [streetsblog.org]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ffejie ( 779512 )
          Density is the big difference here.

          Also, unlike many other dense US cities, NYC doesn't have alleys. Philadelphia, for instance, uses alleys for trash, so the trash isn't sitting on the sidewalks. Manhattan specifically doesn't have any access to the buildings except through the street and sidewalk front entrance.

          But in NYC, you can't just put it in a trash can and wheel it to the curb when you have 30 - 50 floors of residences, or 100 floors of offices stacked on top of one another, each generating a ~ba

          • Also, just in case you don't think this is a problem that needs solving, you can get a feel for what this looks like on a daily basis, as all the buildings put their trash outside by looking for #TrashCity on Twitter.

            I'm not on twitter...or anything other social media, but I am interested in this.

            Would you perhaps have links to regular websites that might have pictures of what you're describing?

            Thank you in advance!

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by ffejie ( 779512 )

              I'm not on twitter...or anything other social media, but I am interested in this.

              You can click the link [twitter.com] and view the pictures without logging in or having an account.

        • It's not just Barcelona, it's all over Spain, AFAIK. Nobody has large "trash cans", they have small bins lined with a plastic bag, usually no more than 30L in volume. They fill up in a couple of days so when it's full you pick up the bag on the way out the door & take it out to the street & pop it down a little chute sticking up out of the pavement. There's usually a row of chutes for different kinds of waste, e.g. food waste, paper & cardboard, plastics, & glass. That's it. Every night, a t

          • It's not just Barcelona, it's all over Spain, AFAIK. Nobody has large "trash cans", they have small bins lined with a plastic bag, usually no more than 30L in volume. They fill up in a couple of days so when it's full you pick up the bag on the way out the door & take it out to the street & pop it down a little chute sticking up out of the pavement. There's usually a row of chutes for different kinds of waste, e.g. food waste, paper & cardboard, plastics, & glass. That's it. Every night, a t

        • Because big cities tend to view their problems as unique to their city, even when they are encountered virtually the same way everywhere else in the world. Everyone else deals with them in virtually the exact same way, yet somehow these cities think the problem is unique to them and thus they have to come up with a completely novel solution rather than looking to see how it's done everywhere else.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tom ( 822 )

        Unfortunately, anything a gov't does is less efficient, overly complex and more costly than what we use in Software Engineering.

        That's because a government generally tries to do things that work, not alpha crapware that will be fixed when the customer starts complaining.

        There's a huge number of successful government projects. We just never hear about them because "something does exactly what it's supposed to do" doesn't make good newspaper headlines.

  • Underground containers are a good idea (Score:3)

    by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @10:59AM (#62937303)

    To get this back on track...
    When we lived in Switzerland, trash was collected in large underground vaults (with separate vaults for recyclables). Truck came regularly to lift out the container and take it away. The Swiss are well organized. This worked well. No trash cans cluttering the sidewalks. They also had extremely well organized "dechetteries" where you could dispose of furniture, electronics, etc. (also good site for finding used but serviceable items).

    • I wonder how you would deal with security/bomb risk with an underground container. It is a good system, but I think Americans generally generate too much trash for it to be the best approach.

      • Americans generally, or NYC specifically? I would not expect what's best for most of the USA to work best in NYC.
      • How do you deal with suckurinetea and bomb risk in plastic trash bags randomly strewn around a curb? How about in parked cars? The fact is that there simply isn't that much desire to commit terrorist acts. 9/11 was a generation ago. Stop with the cowardice mongering.

        • The fact is that there simply isn't that much desire to commit terrorist acts. 9/11 was a generation ago. Stop with the cowardice mongering.

          The fact that there hasn't been another 9/11 isn't because they don't want to.

          • It has to do with people no longer cooperating with hijackers and reinforced flight deck doors, not all of the intrusive nudie/shoe/ID carnival nonsense that the US loves to implement.

      • Re:Underground containers are a good idea (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @11:37AM (#62937435)

        I wonder how you would deal with security/bomb risk with an underground container.

        You would be thankful that any blast gets directed upwards and poses much less risk of injury or damage compared to using above-ground trash containers.

      • I wonder how you would deal with security/bomb risk with an underground container. It is a good system, but I think Americans generally generate too much trash for it to be the best approach.

        Can you imagine having to dig up a whole city to create these new underground trash bunkers?

        And a super old, densely packed urban zone like NYC would likely be VERY difficult....no telling what they would dig up there (unmarked pipes, wires/cables, unmarked graves...etc).

    • Not that good, actually. Easy to get wrong. (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Meh. Here in the Netherlands they're all the rage too. And they're an excuse to require RFID/NFC passes that also just happen to track your every deposit. Some councils also make you pay a couple euros per bag. Per teeny tiny small bag. Just to make you "waste less". Which occasionally means trash gets dumped everywhere but in a proper receptacle. Like right next to the containers because their waste just won't fit. But then you get tut-tutting placards saying that's not done, or even cameras installed to s

      • We'll likely end up with wheelie bins, since no one is digging up every NYC sidewalk in 10 places per block to place underground containers ... plus a trash truck would have to reach over parked cars to get to them.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        It might work in NYC, but not in many other parts of the USA. Here, all forms of garbage/recycling collection have to compete on price with just finding a gully, stream or alley way to throw it in at night. Raise collection fees and all the trash goes to the lowest cost alternative.

        I don't know how NYC works. But in my town, we have wheelie bins that can be lifted by a hydraulic arm into the back of the garbage truck. Multi-family residences are provided with larger dumpsters that can be similarly emptied.

        • We get around that by making trash collection mandatory. Everybody pays a garbage collection tax as part of their county taxes, based on # of people in the household. So no incentive to look for a cheaper solution.

    • That's for public bins not residential and $20K was for a one-off prototype. So sick of all the flaimbait headlines, this on CBS News no less.

  • it will be interesting (Score:3)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @11:02AM (#62937311) Journal

    I predict the "solution" will require a vast complicated infrastructure project for $1bn.
    (That seems to be a number that is now 'serious' in public policy. Below that is practically trivial.)

    I remember my first time to New York, it had never occurred to me that it ACTUALLY IS as filthy as it's portrayed in movies! I'd assumed that was hyperbolic.

    We had a hotel in midtown (between 5th and 6th on 44th - a fairly tony area) and nearly every morning there were piles of leaking disgusting garbage bags along the curb, with rats scuttling out of the way of joggers.

    Fucking disgusting. Can't understand why people want to be there. The reality isn't appealing.

    • You get used to it after a while. And there aren't many dense cities in the US where you can live without owning a Gaht damned car, and where you can walk/take transit everywhere. I basically had a choice: NYC or Europe.

      • You get used to it after a while. And there aren't many dense cities in the US where you can live without owning a Gaht damned car, and where you can walk/take transit everywhere. I basically had a choice: NYC or Europe.

        Thank goodness it is a big country (in your case a big world)...and we have choice.

        I'll be happy to keep my "elbow room" and cars and motorcycles and not have to depend on public transit.

        To each his own.

        • Something you and I can agree on. Living in the stix is the best.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hey! ( 33014 )

          Actually driving around Manhattan is surprisingly easy, although garaging your car for the year can set you back a pretty penny. But assuming you have the money, getting around the island by car is quite convenient, thanks to the extensive and dense street grid. While there's always traffic around tourist destinations, most streets during the middle of the day are quiet, because New Yorkers are working then, not mobbing Times Square to take selfies with the human statue.

          People use the subway because it's

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      This is a consequence of an oversight in the early city planning. When the Manhattan street grid was laid out in 1811, the commissioners' main concern was diving the land up for sale and development. It did not occur to them to include a network of service alleyways such as you sometimes find in later city grids, like Chicago. This wouldn't have been a big problem, if it weren't for the Erie Canal. The economic boom that created, and the fact Manhattan is an island, sent the value of Manhattan real est

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tom ( 822 )

        I've been to high density housing in other places. 25 story buildings full of relatively small flats, three large blocks of that, not one bag of trash on the street. Trash chutes in the hallways near the elevators, probably a couple large containers at the bottom and the trash collection just picks them up.

        It's not a question of density.

        • The parent didn't say it was a problem of density. He said it was a problem of town planning in high density cities.

          You can't just magically trash shoot to another universe. You still need a place to store it. The issue comes when you increase population density without having thought out your basic utilities. The Chicago example is good. Many cities are like this, e.g. Melbourne, Australia which also uses an alleyway setup. Other cities are like Manhattan and are disgusting, e.g. London where they also dum

  • They are one of the leading and most prestigious consultancy firms. So expect a huge bill for the taxpayer, and no real results, but that's not different from any other big consultancy firm.
    • Efficient operation usually means people get downsized - people lose jobs (that are redundant or no longer needed) - can't have that!
  • Are they evaluating docker and Kubernetes, or is it something else?

  • With a big (and controversial [wikipedia.org]) corporation like McKinsey & Company [wikipedia.org], the city will certainly be given a big price tag for solutions from this containers study. I suggest using an open-source solution like Kubernetes [kubernetes.io]. Take a look at Kubernetes Garbage Collection [kubernetes.io] for example. It's free and consumes minimal space, which we all know is a premium in NYC.

    See also this tutorial on how to set up Kubernetes for high-performance garbage collection [youtube.com].

  • How much did it cost the city to hire this "consulting" firm? Doesn't say in the article. I wonder if they could have just used that money to "consult" themselves, since they are the ones dealing with this problem first hand.
  • This is the company that pushed opium, admitted it, then paid a paltry fine for the privilege of making billions. NYC hired these crooks for $30 million to find ways to curb jail violence. The input from McKinsey was based on fabricated data. Good call to hire them again.

  • Let's not waste any time and just kick start a new Moreland Commission. My state is so corrupt it can be dizzying.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • There's no reason why a SD card should ever come in a package larger than your hand. Set rules for packaging size and weight. Make companies accept the waste. Make containers returnable a point of sale. Stop the bull$hit.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      There's no reason why a SD card should ever come in a package larger than your hand.

      Or your pocket.

      It's an anti-theft measure. The alternative would be to place small, high value merchandise inside larger lockable boxes. And then have the clerks waste time fiddling with a clumsy latch that thieves can get open in a snap. Or keep such merchandise behind the counter.

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