The Biden Administration Issues Sweeping New Rules on Chip-Tech Exports To China (protocol.com) 90
The U.S. unveiled a set of new regulations Friday that aim to choke off China's access to advanced chips, the tools necessary to manufacture years-old designs, and the service and support mechanisms needed to keep chip fabrication systems running smoothly. From a report: On a briefing call with reporters Thursday, administration officials said the goal is to block the People's Liberation Army and China's domestic surveillance apparatus from gaining access to advanced computing capabilities that require the use of advanced semiconductors. The chips, tools, and software are helping China's military, including aiding the development of weapons of mass destruction, according to the officials, who asked to remain anonymous to discuss the administration's policies freely.
The new rules are comprehensive, and cover a range of advanced semiconductor technology, from chips produced by the likes of AMD and Nvidia to the expensive, complex equipment needed to make those chips. Much of highest-quality chip manufacturing equipment is made by three U.S. companies: KLA, Applied Materials, and Lam Research, and cutting off China's access to their tools has the potential to damage the country's ambitions to become a chipmaking powerhouse. The Biden administration's new controls on chip exports represent a significant shift in U.S. policy related to China. For decades, the U.S. has attempted to keep China two generations of tech behind, typically by denying China access to the tools necessary to make advanced chips, or other technology, themselves. Now, the goal looks to be to cripple China's ability to produce chips with technology that is nearly a decade old, several generations behind the state-of-the-art capabilities.
The new rules are comprehensive, and cover a range of advanced semiconductor technology, from chips produced by the likes of AMD and Nvidia to the expensive, complex equipment needed to make those chips. Much of highest-quality chip manufacturing equipment is made by three U.S. companies: KLA, Applied Materials, and Lam Research, and cutting off China's access to their tools has the potential to damage the country's ambitions to become a chipmaking powerhouse. The Biden administration's new controls on chip exports represent a significant shift in U.S. policy related to China. For decades, the U.S. has attempted to keep China two generations of tech behind, typically by denying China access to the tools necessary to make advanced chips, or other technology, themselves. Now, the goal looks to be to cripple China's ability to produce chips with technology that is nearly a decade old, several generations behind the state-of-the-art capabilities.
Re:Oddly inconsistent (Score:4, Interesting)
There are a lot of shills on slashdot. If this sarcasm (which it should be) you should use a /s.
"First 100 days: Biden keeps Trump-era sanctions in tech battle with China, looks to friends for help"
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/2... [cnbc.com]
"In his first 100 days as president, Joe Biden has made one thing clear — he wants to make sure the U.S. outcompetes China on a number of fronts, with technology being front and center.
His policies continue the Trump-era hardline on export controls to Chinese technology companies but adds some new elements — collaboration with allies in areas seen as critical, such as semiconductors and a focus on beefing up domestic capabilities."
APR 28 2021
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Admittedly, the prior strategy of encouraging China to become a trade partner (started under Nixon) had kind of washed up on the rocks of Xi's ego
It is good that the US can work on knocking that ego down a couple of pegs before Xi starts declaring himself world emperor for life of some such silliness
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Yep. The policy of not doing this hasn't work, maybe this will work better. Worst case, it will be ineffectual.
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imo, China will face similar economic challenges as Japan due to family saving rates
The US-style economy requires that consumers spend 95%+ of their income on consumer goods
If the savings rate goes up, the economy cools off
The Chinese population, much like Japan, is prone to putting away at least 10% of income into savings, which results in stagnation... unless or until the government continues/starts dumping money into the economy to charge it back up again [carnegieendowment.org]
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fyi, US is a DEMAND driven economy, that is why the key indicator is consumer confidence
If there is lowered demand due to consumers saving instead of spending, then there is no reason for corporations to invest in anything
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Sadly, there are only two answers to the question, Supply side economy or demand driven economy
consumption and confidence are just qualifiers
The post that I was replying to tried to claim that supply side investment in pp&e drove the economy, and I was simply letting him know that companies will not invest in anything if there is no demand for their goods
Nice try, thanks for playing
Depends on exports (Score:2)
If foreign consumers buy Chinese goods, then Chinese consumers can save their money without stalling the Chinese economy. Exports have been the key driver behind Chinese growth over the last 2 to 3 decades.
If US and European consumers became protectionist and only bought non-Chinese goods, then the Chinese economy would tank. The problem is that Western consumers and corporations have both become hooked on cheap Chinese goods. The inflation that we see in the West would only become worse with protectioni
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>>If foreign consumers buy Chinese goods, then Chinese consumers can save their money without stalling the Chinese economy. Exports have been the key driver behind Chinese growth over the last 2 to 3 decades.
Wonderfully naive statement there, and completely ignores what happened to Japan even while being a largely exporting nation
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And at the very least, anyone pointing out this insanely polarized opinion gets modded flaimbait/troll here.
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You mean like this?
https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/remarks/grassley-johnson-release-bank-records-tying-biden-family-to-ccp-linked-individuals-and-companies
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Literally no one in a position to decide was fooled by the arguments proposed in the 1990s for unfettered trade with China. But they all knew there was ungodly amounts of money to be made in the short-term from it, and if things went sour (as they partly have), it could also be turned into another Soviet Menace that would also be profitable to exploit.
Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'm just happy to see someone doing something other than pointing at the other side as the "enemy". Maybe the extreme destruction by foreign psy-ops propaganda divisions can be slowed down a bit under Biden.
Of course, China is eventually going to have their own chip fabs, assuming they don't "annex" Taiwan's, but at least they can develop the technology themselves that goes into their hypersonic missiles.
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> Of course, China is eventually going to have their own chip fabs, assuming they don't "annex" Taiwan's,
Annexing would not do much for them given the global interconnections it takes to keep a TSMC running, it is far from a standalone operation.
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What the hell is wrong with you?
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he works in the students loan shark industry ?
Re:Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:5, Funny)
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whatta load of bullshit. but you do whatever you need to justify your inhumane actions, boo boo
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Re:Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:4, Insightful)
It makes no sense whatsoever to start your life with a $50000 debt just for your eductation.
This should be paid for by the companies that are planning to employ the students in the future, with, say, something called corporate taxes
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something called corporate taxes
Oh, go wash your mouth!
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It makes no sense whatsoever to start your life with a $50000 debt just for your eductation.
Your education benefits yourself. You are making the choices that determine what salaries you will receive in the future. If you have the authority to make the decision then you should have the responsibility of the consequences. I am pretty sure that you accept the rewards without complaint.
This should be paid for by the companies that are planning to employ the students in the future, with, say, something called corporate taxes
Companies don't pay taxes people do. The price of a product consists of all expenses including taxes. When it doesn't the company shuts downs or declares bankruptcy. When taxes are too high profits are exported to other
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Your education benefits yourself. You are making the choices that determine what salaries you will receive in the future. If you have the authority to make the decision then you should have the responsibility of the consequences. I am pretty sure that you accept the rewards without complaint.
wrong, your eductation benefits your future employers.
Companies don't pay taxes people do. The price of a product consists of all expenses including taxes. When it doesn't the company shuts downs or declares bankruptcy. When taxes are too high profits are exported to other jurisdictions that have lower costs. It's amazing how fast the people jump to the lower cost products.
yeah, and that's the problem with the current economic model in the US.
companies and their shareholders are just a bunch of crybaby freeloaders.
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Someone needs to brush up on macroeconomics. A price at that level is not some theoretical ideal confluence of supply and demand, it's an arbitrary strategy by a massively powerful corporate bureaucracy that can bully the IRS into literally funding their private vacations.
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Oh, if it was just $50k that would be something. Any more, even in-state costs for public universities are $12k per semester so you are really looking at ~$100k if you are attending in-state for a 4-year degree. Out-of-state is even more ridiculous, at $25k/semester; or $200k for a 4-year degree from a large public university in the midwest. And that's low in comparison to some other larger public universities that aren't in the midwest with similar entry requirements.
source 1 - large midwest public univ [osu.edu]
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,
BTW, corporations already do pay for educations in the form of higher wages paid to those who earn them. If you chose to get your degree in "the use of metaphor in 12th century Sami literature" and can't find a job that pays enough to cover your loans
Re: Somebody's finally standing up for the US (Score:2)
potential to damage the country's ambitions (Score:1)
On the contrary, it will make them more ambitious, and much more self sufficient. I am grateful that their own authoritarian greed puts a limit on their competence and abilities
Re: potential to damage the country's ambitions (Score:3)
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last I checked, they already have copied the 7nm tech...
https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]
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The 7nm tech that they are currently employed to make those mining chips are relatively easy because the design themselves is not complex. By using something simple like that, it allows them to work out design/manufacturing/printing principals so that they can get a better yield. Right now, from what I understand is that those yields while good, are not great. They can and should be better. As their technique improve, the designs can get more complicated, and then it can enable them to make/design chips tha
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Re:potential to damage the country's ambitions (Score:5, Informative)
that's just stupid (Score:2)
1) it just supposes the 1.5B strong chinese people is just stupid as a whole
2) it will make china fast track development of their own industries
3) wait for china to impose sanctions on the US
4) china may accelerate their invasion of Taïwan
Re:that's just stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
2) it will make china fast track development of their own industries
Fast tracking industry in China has largely been achieved by partnering with western companies and stealing their technology. I wish them good luck.
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indeed, they can do 7nm already https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]
now, 4) will accelerate that further
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Alot of Chinese students have been studying at Top Unis in US / EU / all over Asia, etc for the pass few decades.
Don't you think they can't figure out some of the needed tech? Especially if China government is willing to throw huge resources at them?
They may not get to cutting edge for a couple of decades, but I suspect it will happen.
China gov tends to play the long game and they don't seem to care if they have to spend resources now even if they get returns only a couple of decades later. Unfortunately mo
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Don't you think they can't figure out some of the needed tech?
Yes. Universities teach things which exist. They do not teach things which are developed through R&D. If you go through university and come out with a Masters degree in EE and a specialisation in fabrication of microelectronics you have just enough knowledge to get employed as an ignorant dolt in industry, and at best after a few years you will have the knowledge to develop last year's products.
To develop modern tech you firstly need a very healthy industry (not degrees) and you need that industry to be
Re:that's just stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Even without the restrictions, China hasn't been able to keep up with the latest technology, and the only 7 nm line they have was almost a direct copy of TSMC's technology, clearly stolen IP, and even then it's not a fully capable 7 nm line. China is completely reliant on outside technology, particularly for the UV machines from ASML. So yes, these restrictions will have a significant effect. There's no indication that China can replicate the ASML machines domestically. It has nothing to do with who's smarter; it's a matter of expertise and resources. The same restrictions are effective at blocking Russian access to these technologies, and it's not like Russian scientists are dumb.
What you're seeing here is that with the Chinese market crashing demographically, western businesses are no longer interested in doing business there, so the pressure on governments to allow technology transfers is being reduced. China can see what's coming and realizes they're headed for a big demographic/economic crisis, is very dependent on imported energy, has spent a huge amount of resources building up a decent sized military and wants to throw its weight around while they still can. The west can see this, doesn't like how buddy/buddy they are with Russia, doesn't like the aggressive tone with Taiwan, and has decided its safer to press their (technological) advantage and score some political points at home at the same time. This will just amplify the crisis China is facing and secure US dominance.
Long term, the US has managed to end up in a very favorable position: while the rest of the world is threatened by instability everywhere, North America is a relatively stable island in a sea of crazy, and even while the total pool of investment capital dries up due to demographic shifts, investment capital will be flowing into North America, particularly the US, because it's really the only safe place to invest anymore, and the only developed nation without a really nasty-looking population pyramid.
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North America is a relatively stable island
Maybe you should read "Lord of the Flies"
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Long term, the US has managed to end up in a very favorable position: while the rest of the world is threatened by instability everywhere, North America is a relatively stable island in a sea of crazy, and even while the total pool of investment capital dries up due to demographic shifts, investment capital will be flowing into North America, particularly the US, because it's really the only safe place to invest anymore, and the only developed nation without a really nasty-looking population pyramid.
I think the Canada part of North America seems relatively stable, but you sure the same is true for the US part of North America?
With leaders refusing to use science to figure out solutions, and religion getting mixed with politics, and sufficient critical thinking skills lacking that a substantial number of people believing conspiracies, are you really sure on that? Add in the fact that every other nutjob there seems to be armed legally?
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Even without the restrictions, China hasn't been able to keep up with the latest technology, and the only 7 nm line they have was almost a direct copy of TSMC's technology, clearly stolen IP, and even then it's not a fully capable 7 nm line. China is completely reliant on outside technology, particularly for the UV machines from ASML. So yes, these restrictions will have a significant effect. There's no indication that China can replicate the ASML machines domestically. It has nothing to do with who's smarter; it's a matter of expertise and resources. The same restrictions are effective at blocking Russian access to these technologies, and it's not like Russian scientists are dumb.
For a long time, China's equivalent of "keeping up" was to buy components from the west and have them assembled in China. Their high speed trains are pretty much European trains shipped over in CKD form... then locally assembled with a "made in China" sticker shoved on them. Same with their aerospace industry, their passenger planes are basically using European/American parts (Honeywell, Thales, GE, Safran, RR, et al) in locally manufactured shells... Even then the COMAC aircraft have glaring aerodynamic in
Re:that's just stupid (Score:4, Interesting)
Taiwan and TSMC will never let the CCP take over any of their plants. It would not surprise me one bit that there are workers there that are your everyday workers but are secretly working with the Taiwanese government security to ensure that if anything was to happen, they would take drastic measures to ensure that whatever critical physical facilities (ultra clean water plant) is sabotaged or outright destroyed.
The retaliation/resistance to the CCP is strong in Taiwan. The CCP knows this and Taiwanese people know this. Given the current political climate in Taiwan, the "witch hunt" of those who are supportive of the unification of Taiwan and China is often linked to pro CCP, even though many on the island do want to reunify as the original China, before all the BS of the communist party. If you understand Chinese history or how much political propaganda takes place in Taiwan today you'd understand that having sleeper agents posed as regular workers is not far fetched at all.
In a way you can say Taiwan is still going through its McCarty era. It was bad during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and even in the 80s. It started to die down in the 90s and 2000s, but these days things are starting to get bad again.
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Full rarth export ban to the west incoming, IMHO.
this is a good start but (Score:1)
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wrong, thanks for playing, unless you want a terminator to blast through your door
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Not just US manufacterers (Score:2)
Much of highest-quality chip manufacturing equipment is made by three U.S. companies: KLA, Applied Materials, and Lam Research,
Even the biggest one, ASML, has for years been 'forced' to limit their sales to China.
And they are Dutch, not US.
G I N A (Score:2)
"Sanctions" seems to be missing from the article (Score:2)
These are economic sanctions, nothing less. Whether you agree or disagree, we should at least use the right terminology.
Economic sanctions are, depending upon your viewpoint, either a type of warfare, or something that often precedes warfare.
No matter what, it's a very aggressive move. Not sure if it's the right one or not. But hey, it's one way to (try to) maintain hegemony.
I don't agree with the strategy. (Score:2, Interesting)
We need to isolate Russia - best way to do that is to dangle lots and lots of lovely carrots in front of China - not only to remove China from the equation, but also to put the wind up those other nations that have allied themselves with Russia as they're almost all competitors to China. They'll be in a position where they either have to ask for a few carrots themselves or risk being swept off the board by a resurgent China.
We also need to deal with global warming, and as China is a major polluter, improvin
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We need to isolate Russia - best way to do that is to dangle lots and lots of lovely carrots in front of China ...We also need to deal with global warming, and as China is a major polluter, improving their technology and kicking them into the 21st century would be a major step towards getting CO2 under control.
China is actually not very difficult to understand, although you don't understand them. So here you go. China only has one priority -
1) The Chinese Communist Party must live forever and always be in charge.
That's pretty much it. Secondary to this they also want -
2) Democracy to never be allowed in China because that might stop #1.
3) They will work to destabilize democratic governments everywhere because that helps with #1.
They really don't care that much about anything else, includ
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Why is this such a big deal? (Score:2)
Is it really a big deal if the next TCL TV or Huawei cell tower or Comac passenger jet or MG electric car has advanced chips in it?
Sure it might be just that much harder for western manufacturers of the same product to compete but if TCL or Huawei or Comac or MG can produce a better product than their competitors,so be it (any national security issues that Chinese products may bring up can be solved simply by banning those products from being used in situations where they might present such a national secur
One problem with this (Score:2)
Expect China to retaliate on rare earths (Score:2)
https://www.airandspaceforces.... [airandspaceforces.com]
So in the interest of world peace and keeping the US in line they will stop allowing use of their rare earths for building weapons of mass destruction. There are probably lots of other items China exports that could also be restricted (ingredients to make drugs, to make explosives, biologic materials). I think the Biden administration is right. We k
Context (Score:1)
Far from being a reformer, Mr Xi sees himself as a restorer -
of the party and its central role in society, and of china and its
role in the world. He has amassed more power and wielded it
more ruthlessly than any Chinese leader since Mao Zedong. As
his power has grown, so has China's ambition. At the party's five-
yearly congress, starting on October 16th, Mr Xi will almost cer-
tainly be given another term as supreme leader.
China's rulers believe that in-
dividuals must sacriface their liberties, privacy and dig
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Bark no bite (Score:2)
Only certain entities are blacklisted, allegedly those associated with the Chinese military. Other companies can still get the tech. Like the military can't get it from them? This is just window dressing for Biden's word salads.
Xi is gonna be pissed - NOT (Score:1)
So how long is it before China "chokes off" our pharmaceuticals? No more aspirin, antibiotics, pain killers, anesthesia, etc? As long as we allow their "students" to intern and attend college here then take that knowledge back home we will NEVER get ahead of China. We Americans will continue to support China buy buying all the cheap crap they produce. They will continue developing their manufacturing capabilities and using cheap labor OR they'll just buy the companies with the technologies they need.