US Pushes Japan and Other Allies To Join China Chip Curbs

The U.S. is urging allies including Japan to follow its lead on restricting exports of advanced semiconductors and related technology to China, likely intensifying the impact of Chinese-American tensions on chipmakers worldwide. From a report: Tokyo has begun internal discussions on the issue at Washington's request, a Japanese government insider said. Officials are weighing which restrictions can be adopted in Japan, and will watch how other U.S. allies such as the European Union and South Korea respond. The sweeping export controls announced Oct. 7 by the U.S. Commerce Department span chipmaking equipment, design software and even engineers who support semiconductor manufacturing in China.

"We were talking to our allies. No one was surprised when we did this, and they all know that we're expecting them to cover likewise," Alan Estevez, undersecretary of commerce for industry and security, said during an event Thursday hosted by a U.S. think tank. The curbs allow companies to apply for exemptions, but with a presumption of denial, meaning such requests are unlikely to be granted. Violators may face civil and criminal penalties.

Hmmm ..

[SuperDre]

That's just awful. What a bunch of crybabies are the americans, because they are falling behind they'll try to ban chip export to China instead of trying to catch up.

Re:

[MIPSPro]

So, given the same attitude, couldn't we just say China is a big crybaby for not making their own chip-making-hardware rather than trying to steal Taiwan or get the stupid Americans or Danish to send them their already-working hardware. I mean, China is full of super geniuses right? Can't they just make their own? Why all the butthurt toward the "crybaby americans"?

So doesn't this increase the chance

[presidenteloco]

of China moving up plans to steal Taiwan and TSMC?

Re: Hmmm ..

[SuperDre]

Except most chip-making machines aren't made by US companies, the biggest, ASML, is a dutch company.

Re: Hmmm ..

[SuperDre]

BTW, stealing Taiwan? How can you steal something that already belongs to you? Most countries in the world don't acknowledge Taiwan as a sovereign state.

Re:

[presidenteloco]

Mostly, I believe in self-determination.
If the people in a clearly demarked geographic area (e.g. a large island) are democratically polled and wish to remain a separate state, then that should be the legal situation.

It belonging to the PRC is just one opinion. It never belonged to PRC. It was a part of the previous incarnation of the chinese state, or federation, or whatever, which was never successfully converted into being part of PRC upon the coup / civil war that converted the mainland of China.

Re: lack of recognition

[presidenteloco]

The lack of formal recognition is due to economic relations with China being more important to many countries than principle.

Re:

[sysrammer]

What? Next you're going to say that President Nixon was unprincipled!

Re:

[LainTouko]

The logic there is that China is a single nation with an unfinished civil war between the side which controls the mainland and the side which controls Taiwan. So on that basis, it's just as valid to say that the PRC belongs to Taiwan as it is to say that Taiwan belongs to the PRC.

Re:

[RobinH]

"Falling behind?" Nice troll. Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, the US, and somewhat Germany are your top semiconductor nations, as far as high technology nodes goes. Taiwan, especially, accounts for > 90% of the most technologically advanced chips. And ASML EUV from the Netherlands is da bom. China can barely claim to do 7 nm technology, while TSMC is rolling out their 3 nm node. In 2015 Xi announced the "made in China" 2025 initiative and after dumping huge amounts of money into the Chinese semiconduct

Re:

[iggymanz]

Nice troll.

The bulk of devices in this world don't need such "technologically advanced" chips. The bulk of the market, more than 75 percent, is "mature node"

Get off the lawn, zoomer.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

The bulk of devices in this world don't need such "technologically advanced" chips.

Everything with a battery benefits from being a more advanced process, and that's the majority of personal computing today. All of the most expensive and thus potentially profitable ICs (if you're not trying to get them out of an Intel fab anyway) are "technologically advanced".

Re:

[RobinH]

That has nothing to do with the "technological decoupling" going on. China has said they want to domestically surpass the US in AI and supercomputing specifically for military uses. That's why the US feels it's justified in the export controls, and why it's convincing its allies in the region (Japan and South Korea) to adopt similar controls. Nobody's trying to stop China making all the low end cheap appliances and toys. The point is that China was never even close to matching the most advanced semicond

Re:

[tlhIngan]

The bulk of devices in this world don't need such "technologically advanced" chips. The bulk of the market, more than 75 percent, is "mature node"

While most of the chips used (by quantity) are mature nodes, they are also the cheap dinky chips no one pays a lot of money for (at least in normal times).

Things like gates, jellybean logic and other semiconductors are mature nodes. But as we've seen, they're also ones that don't make much profit given how a cheap microcontroller can jump in price because supplies

Re: Hmmm ..

[SuperDre]

Uhm falling behind in technological advances for weapons, computers, and other tech by using all technology available, no need to create you own chips, but now they need to, so further increasing their advantage and selfreliance.

Re:

[RobinH]

The great fear of China was built on statistics we were getting from China itself, and many of them were greatly exaggerated (GDP and demographics in particular). There are other proxies for GDP which don't line up with the Chinese statistics. The US is one of the few countries in the world with a not-too-bad population pyramid. Everyone still wants to migrate there. It also has an amazingly good geography, including a super-efficient system of waterways, 30% more farmland than it needs, energy self-suf

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

This is one of the reasons I opposed brexit. The EU is big enough to easily resist these calls, like it did with the Iran oil export deal and data transfer rules. The UK by itself will doubtless roll over and wag its tail.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

That's just awful. What a bunch of crybabies are the americans, because they are falling behind they'll try to ban chip export to China instead of trying to catch up.

China is completely dependent on foreign firms for the central equipment needed in the fab industry, and the USA remains a major player in that tech, while China is not.

Re: Hmmm ..

[SuperDre]

Actually the US isn't a major player, they ban the sale of machines to china because those use some parts developed in the US, completely unrelated to the actual machine itself.

Re:

[Ogive17]

Just looking at your recent posts, I'm going to assume you're a paid troll.

If the US was behind, there would be no reason to ban the export of chip technology.

It's common knowledge that any intellectual property that enters China is copied and quickly found in domestic startups backed by the government. My company made the mistake of trying to produce there (to support Asia sales) in the mid 2000's. Within 2 years there were full counterfeit products badged as OEM on the market.

I understand the bene

Rule by fear

[VeryFluffyBunny]

So the US govt is confident that it is more feared by Japan than Japan fears China.

"It's better to be feared than loved." -- Niccolò Machiavelli

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

So the US govt is confident that it is more feared by Japan than Japan fears China.

"It's better to be feared than loved." -- Niccolò Machiavelli

No, I think it's more along the lines of Japan would much prefer the strings attached to friendliness with the United States than those attached with comparable friendliness with China.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Japan relies on the US for defence. Many of the vehicles and weapons used by the Self Defence Forces are American. There is also this weird kind of "big brother" relationship Japan has with the US, which started after the war. So Japan tends to go along with the US on a lot of stuff.

It will be interesting to see if they are willing to hobble their economy like this though. Right now they are starting a big new stimulus package to deal with a devalued Yen.

Re: Rule by fear

[WoLpH]

It's a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Japan is not a fan of the US, but they dislike China even more

Fun

[backslashdot]

Yup, further strangle supplies and cause a global depression, what could go wrong? When will jackasses at the Fed and govt? realize that the answer to a shitty economy is not to make people lose their jobs. The only winners will be the wealthy. These stupid anti free trade maneuvers only cause pain and suffering.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish you right wing nuts would make up your minds. You've spent decades bitching and moaning about China and the instant we do something about it, and with a strong nationalist policy, you suddenly love China and Chinese manufacturing.

I'm beginning to think you just want something to bitch about.

Oh, and this isn't going to strangle anything. We fab more chips here in the US than China does. They're only responsible for something like 6%, and nothing on the high-end. What this move *will* do, is bring

Re:

[backslashdot]

I've always been pro free trade and globalist, so please fuck off. I'm anti any sort of nationalism, racism, and tribalism.

Re:

[LainTouko]

Free trade isn't a right-wing idea. "Workers of the world, unite", for example, implies getting rid of all national barriers.

This isn't a bad idea but the overall motivation

[Crashmarik]

Could be better.

China has had an illegal occupation of Tibet for what 70 years now? and is also trying to exterminate the Uighurs, is implementing social policies straight out of science fiction dystopias, has that late stage version of communism, where it's indistinguishable between fascism, communism, and plain organized crime and they have managed to combine that with China's unique imperial insanity where emperors do crazy things like locking entire cities up.

So yeah curbing China's growth is important,