US Will Regulate Methane Leaks from Oil and Gas to Fight Climate Change (msn.com) 127
Methane traps about 80 times as much heat as carbon, the Washington Post points out. So Friday at the UN's Climate Change conference, America's Environmental Protection Agency "unveiled an updated proposal to regulate methane seeping from pipes and other equipment maintained by the U.S. oil and gas industry, the country's biggest industrial source of the potent greenhouse gas."
The proposal, which was partially released during last year's climate conference in Glasgow, Scotland, would be the first time the federal government requires existing facilities to find and fix methane leaks. "These are critical, common sense standards that will protect workers, protect communities ... and make very sharp cuts in dangerous pollutants that threaten our planet," EPA Administrator Michael EPA [Administrator Michael] Regan said at a news conference in Egypt.
Under the proposal, the agency is seeking to compel oil and gas operators to use remote sensors to quickly address leaks and to require states to develop plans to curb methane from older wells. Gathering feedback from the industry over the past year, the EPA plans to offer companies more flexibility in how they monitor for leaks. Federal regulators will also establish a program to respond to blowouts and other "super-emitter" events, allowing third-party groups to help quickly identify major leaks. Officials say the regulations will reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by one percentage point below 2005 levels, adding to the roughly 40 percent cut expected to come from the Inflation Reduction Act passed earlier this year. A methane fee program included in that legislation would require oil and gas to pay for all emissions above a certain threshold — providing an incentive for operators to abide by the new regulations, Regan said.
The rule should also help the country fulfill the "Global Methane Pledge" — a U.S.-backed effort to curb emissions of the potent greenhouse gas 30 percent by 2030. Although more than 100 nations have signed on to the pledge since it was launched in 2021, a recent World Meteorological Organization report found that methane emissions this year are rising faster than ever before...Three of the world's t op five methane emitters — China, India and Russia — have not joined the initiative....
The United Nations on Friday also announced the launch of a public satellite system to detect major methane releases from the power, waste and agricultural sectors.
Under the proposal, the agency is seeking to compel oil and gas operators to use remote sensors to quickly address leaks and to require states to develop plans to curb methane from older wells. Gathering feedback from the industry over the past year, the EPA plans to offer companies more flexibility in how they monitor for leaks. Federal regulators will also establish a program to respond to blowouts and other "super-emitter" events, allowing third-party groups to help quickly identify major leaks. Officials say the regulations will reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by one percentage point below 2005 levels, adding to the roughly 40 percent cut expected to come from the Inflation Reduction Act passed earlier this year. A methane fee program included in that legislation would require oil and gas to pay for all emissions above a certain threshold — providing an incentive for operators to abide by the new regulations, Regan said.
The rule should also help the country fulfill the "Global Methane Pledge" — a U.S.-backed effort to curb emissions of the potent greenhouse gas 30 percent by 2030. Although more than 100 nations have signed on to the pledge since it was launched in 2021, a recent World Meteorological Organization report found that methane emissions this year are rising faster than ever before...Three of the world's t op five methane emitters — China, India and Russia — have not joined the initiative....
The United Nations on Friday also announced the launch of a public satellite system to detect major methane releases from the power, waste and agricultural sectors.
it will last until the deniers have control (Score:5, Insightful)
No policy related to global warming can be allowed if your official party platform is that global warming is a Chinese hoax.
By the way, this would be a really good example of both sides are NOT the same.
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A good reason to make sure a certain party doesn't get voted into power, isn't it?
SCOTUS (Score:4, Informative)
The Supreme Court already shut down the EPA's ability to unilaterally regulate CO2 emissions without authorization from Congress. It's doubtful that the EPA will do any better regulating methane leaks.
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You'll note Congress is getting right on that, like one would expect in a Democracy.
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What Democracy? Show me the word democracy in the Constitution.
I hope you realize that this is a really dumb argument.
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Re:SCOTUS (Score:5, Informative)
The Supreme Court shut down the EPA's authority as a broad question. Congress in the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, explicitly gave the power to the EPA, thus reversing the Supreme Court ruling.
The law literally grants the EPA to do exactly this. Because SCOTUS had indicated that "well the law is too vague". So Congress literally sat down and enumerated it all out since the court used the "too vague" argument.
It's doubtful that the EPA will do any better regulating methane leaks
The EPA literally has the explicit power to do this exact thing as of August 16th, 2022.
Re:SCOTUS (Score:5, Informative)
And I just realize I forgot to mention it. It's under section 21001 of PL 117-169
To carry out, using the facilities and authorities of the Commodity Credit Corporation, the agricultural conservation easement program under subtitle H of title XII of that Act (16 U.S.C. 3865 through 3865d) for easements or interests in land that will most reduce, capture, avoid, or sequester carbon dioxide, methane, or nitrous oxide emissions associated with land eligible for the program
And literally indicates methane under the greenhouse gas term applicable to Title 40 of the law therein. Which is literally what the SCOTUS argument predicated on. That is under section 60101 of the law.
(4) GREENHOUSE GAS.—The term ‘greenhouse gas’ means the air pollutants carbon dioxide, hydrofluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, perfluorocarbons, and sulfur hexafluoride.
So, no, no, no, no, no. We already did this with SCOTUS. So Congress fucking pulled the teeth and explicitly gave the EPA the power. In short, THERE ARE ZERO QUESTIONS AS TO IF THE EPA CAN DO THIS. The answer is YES, absolutely this is an explicitly given power. Holy fucking shit, on my God, did Congress absolutely have to go fucking address this.
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That's just a segment. My goodness if anyone really wants to read all of the pages, it's public law 117-169. SCOTUS threw a fit about the law being vague, so Congress wrote a goddamn book. So I never want to hear people bitching about 1,000s of pages long laws because when it's short and sweet, everyone wants to bitch about shit being vague. So this is what we're doing now.
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The law literally grants the EPA to do exactly this. Because SCOTUS had indicated that "well the law is too vague". So Congress literally sat down and enumerated it all out since the court used the "too vague" argument.
Which is really how the government should work.
What about intentional releases? (Score:5, Informative)
Not enough to win against global heating (Score:2)
The needed 45% total GHG reductions needed by 2030 to give a chance of limiting global heating to 1.5 degrees C above pre industrial-revolution temperatures would obviously require around about a 45% drop in actual fossil fuel production and use.
This kind of incremental regulations policy will not
Editor? (Score:2)
Methane traps about 80 times as much heat as carbon
What the fuck is this supposed to even mean, "editor david?"
methane traps about 80 times as much heat as carbon dioxide during its first 20 years in the atmosphere
That's the actual quote. Fix your shit.
Finally taking climate change seriously (Score:2)
There are oil & gas fields releasing over 25000 kg of methane all over the world. That's per hour, by the way. Good to see that after all the diversions into subsidies that gives us at best incremental benefit in cutting greenhouse gases, the US is doing something that can have immediate and substantial impact and not just greenie points.
Ask yourself this question... (Score:2)
Focus on the largest with Sats (Score:2)
But need to do this all over the world. Sadly, far too many GHG emitters.
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OCO2 caused China to admit that they had been lying about their coal amount (though they claim that burning a lot more coal did not increase their CO2 emissions; sheesh). But CHina is not the only one. There are plenty of nations that are emitting a lot more than they either admit or realize (take your pick).
Since only western nations allow for real close monitoring, we need a lot more birds to be watching and just catch the large emitters would made a huge difference.
All you need to know is in this statement (Score:2)
"Three of the world's top five methane emitters — China, India and Russia — have not joined the initiative"
That's it. These three countries rarely join any climate change initiative. They aren't going to allow their economies to be borked by anyone. Remember that China especially teaches their leaders to play Go instead of chess. Meanwhile, every third-world country on the planet bleats that they can't afford it and need to be subsidized which ultimately means that they want to milk the US a
I've said before and I've said again (Score:2)
The solution is to have the CEOs go out and check for leaks with a short-handled blowtorch.
If they survive the process, they get to keep their jobs.
Any other process is just jerking off while the world burns.
So how much does this really matter anyway? (Score:1)
Does it regulate dead wells? (Score:3)
A lot of the leaks come from abandoned dead wells. To make it worse, often they get sold off from the original developer.
It goes like this: Allen Company drills well, earns billions on it, becoming a $1 trillion dollar company. When it is now producing thousands of dollars instead of billions, it sells the well off to Bob Company, that is worth $10 million. Bob uses it for 10 years, then spend $900 to cap it. But the cap is not tight and leaks. For decades, because nobody is using it, maintaining it, or even checking it.
Eventually the EPA finds out that Bob Company has 954 leaking wells. But it will cost Bob Company $20 million to fix all the wells. Bob company has $5 million insurance, and is only worth $10 million. Bankruptcy time. Nothing gets fixed.
War (Score:2)
This is just part of the war on gas and oil, and not really related to climate change.
Why do we even use methane (Score:2)
If it leaks, let's just not use it. Electric stoves work great (despite what the "cooking with gas" campaign led us to believe). Heat pumps are great too, especially if you already have air conditioning.
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:1)
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:1)
Ten dollar gas will see Trump win the popular vote by a landslide next time around.
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Or not. It's clear Trump's base going all out is insufficient to overcome opposition.
Maybe switch to a different Republican?
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:1)
I could be wrong, but ten dollar gas with a clear and obvious reason why would make people vote for Satan himself if he ran against it.
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Unsure what the energy mix is in other reliably Democratic voting strongholds, but our energy is nearly independent of the price of fossil fuels.
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You're hooked to a power grid, one could say plants have to be within a certain distance to make meaningful contribution locally given losses, but your power is definitely over half fossil considering everything within the hundreds of miles range.
Saying Seattle is someone cut off from grid contribution is silly.
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Seattle is not cut off from the grid of course. But SCL negotations its power mix from available non-fossil sources. Of which here, there are many.
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We have the largest power plant in the country in this state- and it's 100% renewable.
Statewide, fossil sources of power are ~13% of the mix, and we're a net exporter to the western seaboard.
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Bull.
Unless it's a segregated hookup which *only* draws from solar & wind (both of which are not constant), you're falling for an accounting gimmick. Your energy company is charging you more so they can make you feel better by telling you the lie you're repeating. Sure, they might buy/produce some, but that doesn't mean that's what's going into your car.
Catholics were more honest with indulgences.
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Do you like to eat? That requires fertilizers. Do you not want to die from some horrible disease? That requires pharmaceuticals.
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But then what will we do with the gasoline and diesel components of the petroleum? Just burn them off at flare towers?
That's what we did with propane many decades ago. Before someone discovered that it could be liquefied under moderate pressure and sold as another form of fuel.
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And neither requires oil from the Saudis that tRump handed a monopoly on oil pricing.
You are wrong on both counts. Both fertilizers and pharmaceuticals require hydrocarbons to be made. We can do that with synthetic hydrocarbons (instead of natural oil) but you can't make those with renewables, you need nuclear or biofuels for that. I know it is surprising but it is true. The rest of your post just confuses me. It was the Russians who gave the Saudis pricing power by invading Ukraine and getting sanctioned. Trump (who is an idiot) if anything made the Saudis less influential on oil pri
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I remember that one point, the Saudi's, Russians etc lowered their prices by flooding the market enough that Americans stopped drilling (shale) as it was unprofitable.
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Yes, some fertilizers and pharmaceuticals do require hydrocarbon feedstocks.
As for requiring nuclear or biofuel for- what in the literal fuck are you talking about.
Biofuel is now somehow non-renewable? Again, what in the literal fuck are you talking about.
Synthetic hydrocarbons need carbohydrates and energy. Carbohydrates are notoriously indifferent about what form of power you use help grow them. Without help, they prefer solar.
Biofuel comes f
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You can make hydrocarbons from a combination of a significant and steady source of high heat and sea water. That's the nuclear way to make a hydrocarbon.
No.
That's the energy and seawater way to make a hydrocarbon.
The technology was designed to fuel ships, and since ships are currently fueled by 2 sources: fuel, and nuclear
Since it wouldn't make much sense for a fuel-driven vehicle to try to use its energy to make more fuel (unless you believe in perpetual motion), that leaves nuclear vessels.
Since we're discussing practical applications of the technology aside from what the Navy was considering it for, we have the luxury of not assuming only 2 possible
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:2)
Trump handed the Saudis control of the oil market? Please, do tell how Trump did that...
I kinda remember the guy that came after Trump all but declared war on the oil industry, it started his first day in office, as I recall. When asked just last we he promised to end all domestic drilling - forcing the US to become an ever greater consumer on the world market, victim of the whims of OPEC and other oil producers.
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"Declared war" is a complete lie. There are more leases now than ever under tRump. [medium.com]
Stop spreading the manure sold by tRump, NewsMucks, Faux Noise and the Heartland Institute.
NICE TRY loser
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Oh look, there's a free EV charging parking spot.
Right next to that diesel generator [ifunny.co].
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You would care because with $10/gallon gasoline you will see prices for everything else you buy go up. If this goes on long enough then people will start switching to EVs themselves, and that will make tires and other parts for EVs go up and then the price of electricity will go up.
In the end energy is energy. If fuel oil prices go up then so will the prices of firewood, natural gas, and electricity. This is because utilities own power plants that can burn different kinds of fuels and they will switch am
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:1)
In their zeal to be the hero and fight the dragon, people like to forget that guys like Hitlet and Mussolini got elected by appealing to economic concerns as much as baser tribalism and ethnic scapegoating.
It's far more pleasant to believe they were all evil and wrested power for purely and transparently evil ends than it is to admit that some of the pleasant sounds they emitted could appeal to normal people at face value. People like your neighbor or your uncle or even you.
This led to two parallel and equa
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"Evil can take root within you, so watch yourself"
Hitler attempted a coup in 1923, wrote Mein Kampf in 1925 while imprisoned; evil took root in him long before he had actual political power.
Mussolini founded the fascist movement & took power in the March on Rome which was a coup.
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Worry not, it's quite possible you're getting to vote for google instead.
Megacorporations have much more power than governments nowadays, yet we're still on the bubble that says otherwise, so correction coming, and it will be quite terrible.
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I dislike corporate power as much as the next guy, but let's be real.
Megacorporations do not have more power than the US Government, and therefor the people.
I think we can all agree that they have more than we'd like, though.
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Government has the power but is totally corrupted by bribes.
Politicians only listen to "contributors", not citizens.
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Government has the power but is totally corrupted by bribes.
Corruptible yes. Totally, no.
Politicians only listen to "contributors", not citizens.
Eyeroll.
They listen to contributors, for sure. Only? I'll repeat myself. Come on, dude.
Corporations cannot elect politicians. Only you can.
The extent by which politicians listen to corporations is the extent to which corporate advertising sways your vote.
At the point where political ads no longer have a measurable outcome on votes, politicians will cease listening to those who can whip those votes.
The power is in your hands. Stop blaming everyone else.
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:2)
I'd buy this if we overturned the Citizens United ruling. Until then money is free speech and it is dirt cheap to jam up people's sources of information with malicious misinformation.
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This is the way it works:
https://www.theguardian.com/en... [theguardian.com]
Our vote means nothing.
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But ultimately, the electoral layout of the country hasn't significantly changed in a way that wasn't already demographically apparent.
I.e., you can say CU led to a corporate takeover of the US government, but you cannot produce one single shred of evidence to support it.
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If your claim that your vote doesn't matter is propped up by examples of things that there is no electoral consensus on, then I'll just repeat myself.
The power is in your hands. Stop blaming everyone else.
Get your ass out there and convince people to agree with you.
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Corps paid big bucks to threaten/bribe politicians to pass law in their favor.
Which part of this don't you understand.
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Corps paid big bucks to threaten/bribe politicians to pass law in their favor.
The only threat and bribe that can be delivered is that to whip votes.
The reason they can make those threats/bribes, is because the issue is highly contentious.
Soda taxes are not supported by 56% of Republicans, 43% of Independents, and 39% of Democrats.
Aggregate across the entire country, they're not supported by 43% of people.
As I said, get your ass out there and convince people to agree with you.
You seem to be pissed off that you can't push through something that doesn't have broad support among t
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They have control over your will via social media, and yet the best they can accomplish is to convince the group of people who are vehemently anti-tax.
I know- we can just make it so that people can't express opinions contrary to our own, that way we can be sure that the opposition against us wasn't manufactured.
Fucking dimwit.
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You believe that all opposition to your pet political position is because those silly little sheep on the other side can't think for themselves.
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Super PACs did not exist before 2010, that's one concrete example of something that has changed. After the SpeechNow.org v. FEC appeals case hundreds of them appeared. Thus a machine for directing corporate money into politics at a rate never seen before in our lifetimes came into existence. (in some races an order of magnitude difference when compared to prior decades)
Citizen's United ruling also reduced political corruption, at least according to conviction rate. That might be because it redefined a 1970'
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Super PACs did not exist before 2010, that's one concrete example of something that has changed.
Trump wasn't President until 2016. There's a concrete example of something that has changed, too.
After the SpeechNow.org v. FEC appeals case hundreds of them appeared. Thus a machine for directing corporate money into politics at a rate never seen before in our lifetimes came into existence. (in some races an order of magnitude difference when compared to prior decades)
That can't be argued. However, the effectiveness of it can.
I can think of not one single issue that flipped due to Citizens United. Can you?
Soda Tax? Nope. Was just as divided before as it is now.
Gun control? Same deal.
All CU did was open the flood gates for advertising to become an arms race. A way to further ruin the lives of politicians.
You cannot show one single tiny shred of evidence that it has chan
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Flat out lie. [pubpub.org]
The conviction rate for public corruption remains at nearly 100%.
Now you're right that the Supreme Court did make a significant alteration to what could be called corruption before in Skilling (Unanimous on the part of the ruling in question) and McDonnell (unanimous) that made it very hard to call certain things corruption. But that's because, it had allowed prosecuting officials for ethically dubious behavior which had no connection to any definition of "corruption."
A reading comprehension failure on your part. Conviction rate is not the quite the same as prosecution rate. I assumed you already understood that prosecutions of corruption are down [ifs.org]. I'm arguing that people are simply not committing the crime as often anymore.
Not going to debate the rest of your comments. Not really worth my time when you either don't understand simple arguments or you intentionally misconstrue statements. Is it for some sort of psychological thrill of winning? It's a sort of useless behav
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A reading comprehension failure on your part. Conviction rate is not the quite the same as prosecution rate. I assumed you already understood that prosecutions of corruption are down [ifs.org]. I'm arguing that people are simply not committing the crime as often anymore.
That's rich.
Allow me to quote you.
Citizen's United ruling also reduced political corruption, at least according to conviction rate.
Your claims are bullshit, and have been clearly demonstrated as such.
You won't debate the rest of my comments because you know how bad your bullshit already looks.
So much winning? Or how to move the goal posts (Score:2)
It's funny how you claim to be an expert on this topic but you can't manage some basic comprehension of your own arguments. I stated conviction rate several comments ago, and you accepted it and replied "The conviction rate for public corruption remains at nearly 100%."
Basically you chose some stupid interpretation of my comment because of your own ignorance of the subject. Once I called you out you started with personal attacks and insults.
You have not been discussing in good faith. And this is ultimately
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It's funny how you claim to be an expert on this topic but you can't manage some basic comprehension of your own arguments. I stated conviction rate several comments ago, and you accepted it and replied "The conviction rate for public corruption remains at nearly 100%."
You said: You can see that corruption has increased by its conviction rate.
I demonstrated that its conviction rate has not changed.
You then said "Duh, you have to look at the PROSECUTION RATE"
That's not a stupid interpretation. You were wrong, and I argued against your claim that was wrong.
Once you were wrong, you moved the goalposts, and I would have been happy to go with that (because you're still wrong about prosecution rate as well), but you had to go and call my "reading comprehension" into ques
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Wonder how you got there?
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LOL you're looking at the people I put on MY foe's list. Not the number of people who list me as Foe.
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You are at 24.
I am at 21.
"LOL!!!11"
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Good idea since that country runs on trains.
As for the guy who sold America's oil refineries to the Aramco Saudi Dictator-murderer, he's done.
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His deficit went from 3 million people in 2016 to 7 million people in 2020.
A different Republican though? Ya, I'd agree with that.
And of course that's to say nothing about the fact that he can easily win without winning the popular vote, particularly with the current layout of battleground states.
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"A different Republican though? Ya, I'd agree with that."
It'll largely be the same GOP & policies which haven't changed in a long time.
As Grover Norquist said in 2012, "we're not auditioning for a Dear Leader, we just need a Republican to become POTUS with enough working digits to sign the bills coming from the House & Senate. Just elect the most conservative member who can win in a given race, that's the plan for the next 20 years"
I'm paraphrasing to some extent but that's the gist of what he said
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It'll largely be the same GOP & policies which haven't changed in a long time.
I don't think anyone was arguing this.
As Grover Norquist said in 2012, "we're not auditioning for a Dear Leader, we just need a Republican to become POTUS with enough working digits to sign the bills coming from the House & Senate. Just elect the most conservative member who can win in a given race, that's the plan for the next 20 years"
And Grover makes my point.
The goal is to get someone who is non-toxic up there to sign legislation.
Trump however, is currently Chernobyl-level toxic.
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"Trump however, is currently Chernobyl-level toxic"
He always was. Lindsey Graham had a brief moment of clarity when he said "if we Trump we will get destroyed....and we will deserve it" but it didn't take very long for him to remember that his true mission in life is unabashed asslicking
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aagh, typo omission. "it we NOMINATE Trump, we will get destroyed"
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If the intention is to be taken at face value, then maybe.
If the intention is to increase the costs of drilling for oil, to the point where capping a well is more financially sensible than identifying leaks and fighting off litigation, then boy have they hit the nail on the head.
The intention here is to make these companies pay for damage caused by pollution that they were previously not required to pay for. An exact analogy would be to make a meat processing plant pay for dumping rotting and diseased offal on your property that they previously were able to dump there without your consent and leaving it for you to deal with at your own cost while they bank the money they saved by offloading the waste disposal costs on you. When a commercial entity produces a product it should be ma
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That's the entire idea dummy. Right now the way it is, there's no incentive to reduce cost of things that are very expensive to clean up. Consumers already foot 100% of the bill to clean up these messes, either in taxes to actually clean them, in medical bills to pay for the problems they cause, etc. Consumers are people. Companies are people. Everyone is people. But until a companies are forced to pass the costs to consumers up front, we deal with these problems generationally (I'll be dead before it matte
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:4, Informative)
Making "them" pay is making yourself pay.
Correct. But I can pay less by driving an EV, putting solar panels on my roof, insulating my attic, and avoiding disposable plastic.
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Good for you, you are clearly privileged enough to be able to afford an EV, invest in capital intensive projects like solar panels (wait til you see what it costs to remove & recycle them), or afford home upgrade projects. Good for you, most aren't in that position.
Your arrogance reminds me of then Senator Obama, saying that if people only kept their tires at their proper pressure, then we could lower national oil consumption by 3-4%
If only the world was as simple as you two think.
I don't know if you go
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Good for you, most aren't in that position
Most weren't in a position to buy a smart phone long ago. Something doesn't reach critical mass because everyone can buy new. Used EVs are starting to be a thing.
Your arrogance reminds me of then Senator Obama, saying that if people only kept their tires at their proper pressure
Like don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying to the other person there, but you're swinging too far in the opposite direction. EV costs are going down and a second hand market is very young at the moment. So yeah, it's still just out of reach for a lot of people. But the more people who do buy new EV, means that eventually there will be
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Diff governments weren't in the habit then or now of banning the sale of new dumb phones, which does moot your comparison.
A tiny number, from a tiny % of EV's sold to date... hurray! The poor will still be able to drive... eventually.
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It's short sighted to observe that those who cannot afford a new or used EV will be paying much higher prices for gas in order to get around?
They're going to pay for higher gas prices no matter what. Have you not noticed gas just always going up? Let me know when it's back down to seventy cents a gallon.
All of your "arguments" are pointless as EVs or not have nothing to do with those things changing. Poor people always get curb stomped by rich fuckers, let me know which period of time in the last 100 centuries that wasn't the case.
At what external costs?
I mean that's literally everything. You think oil just bubbles up for us to scoop it up with a fucking cup? No,
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Dude, we'll just have to eat the cost of this transition. The alternative is we all drown and/or roast alive. If you're actually concerned about the poor people (and not just pretending in bad faith), the solution is to make the rich pay for it, not to just do nothing instead.
Don't know why you bring up Obama other than to do the "thanks, Obama!" thing. Nobody cares about him any more, he hasn't been the bogyman in like six years. But he was also correct. Properly inflating tires can save several per perc
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:1)
The alternative is we all drown and/or roast alive.
That's literally false, and I assume you know that it's literally false and are saying it for splash and hoping for a mic drop moment, as opposed to answering a more difficult question of how much environmental impact you/I/we can/could/should tolerate in exchange for economic prosperity and social and political stability today, tomorrow, and in the future.
Psychohistory being science fiction, any answer would be predicated on subjective judgment calls about philosophy as well as practical matters like uncer
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You and those who agree with the 'transition' are more than free to eat the cost... why do you expect the rest of us to subsidize you?
Are we back to 'global warming' then? Is freezing no longer an option? Wheew! Religious adherence is not science.
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You and those who agree with the 'transition' are more than free to eat the cost... why do you expect the rest of us to subsidize you?
Because we're all stuck here. You don't get to be a free rider as everyone else puts the effort to reduce climate damage.
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you are clearly privileged enough to be able to afford an EV, invest in capital intensive projects like solar panels
Loans are available for EVs and solar, so anyone with decent credit can afford them. Then they can pay down the loan with their savings. Higher prices for fossil fuels mean a faster break-even point.
Senator Obama, saying that if people only kept their tires at their proper pressure, then we could lower national oil consumption by 3-4%
Other than being correct, what is the problem with his suggestion?
recycling is a joke, and long has been
Agreed. That's why I don't recycle plastic.
Instead, I just don't buy disposable plastics in the first place.
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F the poor eh? F those with less than decent credit. ~63% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck... you think all of them should go massively into debt to pay for your pet projects to save a lil here and there on their home energy costs or getting to/from work... or face massive spikes in fossil fuels which have
Re: Five dollar gas too cheap for ya? (Score:2)
Obamaâ(TM)s advice sounds pretty sensible. Not only is it simple and free, it could save you money. Whatâ(TM)s that got to do with your rant about the other personâ(TM)s privilege?
Re: (Score:1)
> Making "them" pay is making yourself pay.
by SirSlud ( 67381 ) Alter Relationship on Saturday November 12, 2022 @04:01PM (#63046085) Homepage
That's the entire idea dummy. Right now the way it is, there's no incentive to reduce cost of things that are very expensive to clean up. Consumers already foot 100% of the bill to clean up these messes, either in taxes to actually clean them, in medical bills to pay for the problems they cause, etc. Consumers are people. Companies are people. Everyone is people.
Re: (Score:2)
Too little regulation, too late. (Score:2)
Too little regulation, too late.
A huge damage is already done.