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Earth

India Wants 'Phase Down' on All Fossil Fuels at COP27 (bloomberg.com) 46

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
India is leading a push for the COP27 climate summit to conclude with a decision on phasing down all fossil fuels, a move that would expand the focus from just coal, but is likely to raise strong concerns from oil and gas-reliant countries. From a report: Indian negotiators formally called on the Egyptian Presidency of climate talks for the expanded language to be included in the cover text, a political statement of how countries will seek to tackle the climate crisis, according to people familiar with the matter. The push stems largely from the coal-dependent country's desire to not be singled out for its dependence on the dirty fossil fuel. The request is likely to put India at odds with other countries within its "Like-Minded Group of Developing Countries" negotiating bloc, like China and Saudi Arabia, who have typically acted as a brake on more climate ambition. There will also probably be concern that India's push is an effort to muddy the waters in reducing fossil fuel use globally, by making it harder to track and compare progress.
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India Wants 'Phase Down' on All Fossil Fuels at COP27 More

India Wants 'Phase Down' on All Fossil Fuels at COP27

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  • And I want to lose weight in 2023. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Monday November 14, 2022 @12:31PM (#63050771)

    Maybe I will, maybe I won't... but best not look at historical precedent.

    • I've lost 15kg since 1 Jan this year.

      • You are the Kate Moss of countries then, the rest of the world is getting fatter. Oil will not stop being used until it runs out and we are forced to innovate. It is cheap energy with all sorts of wonderful byproducts upon which most of our nonmetallic civilization is built. That is a shitty, cold, hard fact.

        • Great job taking my "I lost weight" comment and turning it around into another climate debate, dude. How do people live around you?

    • That's good. You need to have a goal. Even if you don't achieve it there's only one thing certain if you don't have a goal: you definitely wouldn't achieve it.

    • Happy world diabetes day! Better not look at the stats for the increase in people with type 2 of this disease and serious health complications if you want to keep your weight up.

      • I'm over 50. My blood sugars are fine. My cholesterol is... actually, fantastic. My blood pressure is "slightly elevated" (12x / 8x) with x between 4 / 9. Clean scan across the board, including the dreaded colonoscopy.

        I'm healthy. Just fat. :)

        • I don't know your personal circumstances, but on average, at a population level, the body shape you have in your 40s is the body shape you have for the rest of you life. Every year you get older from that age, it becomes harder for you to make a change.

          50s is still relatively young, so you have a good chance of not having developed any major issues yet.

          But if your weight is high enough that you think about it, then not having developed major issues generally won't remain true through your 60s, 70s or

          • The good news is that given historical precedent among the males in my family, I don't have to worry about my 80's.

            I'm already avoiding the biggest single killer among them... I've never been a smoker. Heart disease is lurking in the shadows, though... unannounced, but quietly biding it's time...

  • Russian oil (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lynchenstein ( 559620 ) on Monday November 14, 2022 @12:39PM (#63050809)
    They should start by not doing a deal with the devil (Russia) for their oil.
    • Amount of oil India buys from India pales in comparison with what Germany is buying. Somehow people rationalize why Germany has to deal with the devil. And then turn around and sanctimoniously advice India for dealing with the same devil.

      • Germany is winding down Russian imports while Mondi immediately jumped in to bail out his bro

        • Germany is winding down Russian imports while Mondi immediately jumped in to bail out his bro

          The funniest thing about this is that the German experience should be a lesson for India. The Germans also thought that Russia was their friend and that they could use trade with Russia to bring it into the sensible future where invading other countries is pointless and worse than just trading with them.

      • Actually we rationalise why everyone deals with the devil: Infrastructure takes a while to change, and while oil is a perfectly fungible resource, the transportation of it from seller to buyer is not involving both shipping (internationally strained), and facilities to receive said ships.

        The only thing worth rationalising here is that past policy by the west was to enrich struggling countries with the view that by boosting their economy and giving them a taste of what we have, they will default to forming s

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by nomadic ( 141991 )

        "Somehow people rationalize why Germany has to deal with the devil. "
        Who does this?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      India is a developing country. They are where we where back when our emissions were sky high.

      Asking them to forgo or delay development isn't realistic or fair. What we need to do is help. Make low emission technology cheap and available. India is developing a domestic renewables industry, but there is more we can do to help.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        India is developing a domestic renewables industry, but there is more we can do to help.

        There is plenty we can do. The biggest thing would be to provide investment money for India's Thorium based nuclear project. This way they will have a fall back to make up for the unreliability of renewables. It makes sense for India to go this route as there are lots of easy to extract thorium deposits in the country. Current plans are for India to be 30% powered by thorium-based reactors by 2050.

        Go India!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        Make low emission technology cheap and available.

        Yes, a tariff per kWh of carbon emitted during the item's production will quickly make low emission technology cheap by comparison.

    • Where the oil comes from is irrelevant to the AGW factor, so while yes they should stop that, it doesn't have anything to do with this.

  • It is true for all countries, what the leadership wants is not what that country does. But the difference is particularly striking.

    Best way to understand India is to compare it to the Brownian motion [wikipedia.org] of ions in an electrolyte with a very mild electric field.

    The leadership applies 2 micro volts between cathod and anode but most of the ions are hardly affected, they do their own random stuff.

  • Do they even have real winters? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They don't even understand climates that get below freezing, do they?

  • Then build nuclear (Score:4, Informative)

    by atomicalgebra ( 4566883 ) on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:19PM (#63051079)
    We need to build TW's of new nuclear power worldwide. Support for nuclear energy is going to be necessary.

    • Re:Then build nuclear (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:01PM (#63051451) Homepage
      I live in a nuclear free country that is currently running at about 83% clean energy. Nuclear has always looked good in theory but in practice has been less than ideal so I am glad we avoided it. However for may other countries, including India, nuclear is probably he best option for getting rid of fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

      Some of the new designs for nuclear power stations promise to address some of the more suspect aspects of current designs and while the management of of nuclear waste is still a big issue it is trivial compared to CO2 reduction.

      Right now I see nuclear as a way to buy time and if they can get it right it may have a place long term for base load power generation. If they can ever get fusion power to scale I see that as a better base load option.
      • That is not true. Your transportation sector uses fossil fuels just like every one else. You mean 83% electricity. Not everyone has your large hydro reserves and small population. It is dishonest to assume hydro can scale for the rest of the world. It is also extremely environmental destructive.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ukoda ( 537183 )
          You seem to extrapolating my answer to claim more than I wrote. You are right on all the point you make but none of your points where what I was getting at. I would take exception with the claim that hydro is "extremely environmental destructive". Yes it does have a one off huge impact on the local ecosystem that is negative for many inhabitants but after that you get decades of low impact CO2 free power. Like everything mankind does if has an impact but it is better that burning fossil fuels.

          My poin

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      You have an incredible amount of trust in the many demonstrably dysfunctional governments around the world.

      In any case, it would be an economic disaster for India. They really can't afford it. Developed nations barely can. The UK's Hinkley C increased in cost by £3 billion *this year* alone.

      • The best tool we have to mitigate poverty is nuclear energy. India is absolutely capable of building nuclear. And Hinkley C will actually lower electricity costs when it comes online. Do humanity a favor and shut the fuck up scumbag.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Hinkley C will low electricity costs? It's currently guaranteed at around 5x the price that offshore wind gets for the energy it will one day generate. While it gets more expensive, wind gets cheaper.

          • What are you talking about? Average electricity costs in the UK are much higher than the strike price for Hinkley Point C. It was higher before the Ukraine war, and is much higher now. So HPC will actually lower costs dumbfuck. Maybe you should stop worshipping on the alter of LCOE considering how dishonest it is.

            Wind is intermittent dumbfuck. So you actually want to continue burning fossil fuels

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              You seem to be confusing wholesale price with the strike price.

              • Does it matter when the consumer will pay less with HPC than without? Every antinuclear scumbag needs to shut the fuck up. It's lie this and lie that. 50 years of bullshit lies followed with 50 years of fossil fuels.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                  Except that the consumer won't pay less, they will pay more. They aren't even trying to hide it, the justification was that we "need" it even at the higher cost.

  • "Phase Down" has MBA marketers written all over it. With enough synergy and influence-oriented strategic teamwork, their goal is within the vicinity of the stakeholders' reality circle.

  • They have set a target of using 100% dried cattle dung for fuel by 2025. President Biden had John Kerry deliver a congratulatory letter in response to the announcement.

  • Its a noble goal, however they will need to electrify a nation of 1.4 billion, and substitute natural gas for green hydrogen where possible, this will do wonders for their bottom line, however build out costs will be horrendous and there are the millions of diesel and gasoline powered vehicles no one can afford to replace.
  • Any talk of climate crisis without inclusion of population control is pointless.

  • Their pollution is now mostly farmers clearing their fields like they've done forever. Lots of choking smoke and CO2 emission. No fossil fuel, though!

    They could be making biochar out of it and sequester C for a thousand years, and improve the soil besides.

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