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United States Technology

Justice Department Said To Investigate Ticketmaster's Parent Company (nytimes.com) 63

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The Justice Department has opened an antitrust investigation into the owner of Ticketmaster, whose sale of Taylor Swift concert tickets descended into chaos this week, The New York Times reported Friday, citing sources. The investigation is focused on whether Live Nation Entertainment has abused its power over the multibillion-dollar live music industry. From the report: That power has been in the spotlight after Ticketmaster's systems crashed while Ms. Swift fans were trying to buy tickets in a presale for her upcoming tour, but the investigation predates the botched sale, the people said. Staff members at the agency's antitrust division have in recent months contacted music venues and players in the ticket market, asking about Live Nation's practices and the wider dynamics of the industry, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is sensitive. The inquiry appears to be broad, looking at whether the company maintains a monopoly over the industry, said one of the people. Officials in the Biden administration have spent the last two years trying to push the boundaries of antitrust law. The Justice Department has mounted several challenges to major mergers, successfully convincing a judge to block Penguin Random House's purchase of Simon & Schuster but losing some other cases. The Federal Trade Commission has sued to block Meta, Facebook's parent company, from acquiring a small virtual reality start-up.
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Justice Department Said To Investigate Ticketmaster's Parent Company More

Justice Department Said To Investigate Ticketmaster's Parent Company

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  • Force them to show the all in price up front as we (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:27PM (#63061749)

    Force them to show the all in price up front as well

    • I can see no argument against that!

      Beyond that, my basic question is whether ticketmaster really keeps all this money, or if basically they are the 'bad cop' in a 'good cop'/'bad cop' arrangement that allows the performers and their management to charge high prices and impose other unfavorable terms, while scapegoating evil ticketmaster as the culprit.

      • I really doubt the artists and Ticketmaster are colluding together, especially since artists have been bitching about their practices for decades.
        https://www.rollingstone.com/m... [rollingstone.com]

        Ticketmaster / Live Nation is the bad cop in a bad cop / bad cop situation. They have no intentions without government intervention of fixing their complete and total monopoly. They have a bigger strangle hold on the ticket industry than Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook, etc do on their respective industries/platforms.

    • Re:Force them to show the all in price up front as (Score:5, Insightful)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:42PM (#63061975)
      Do that for every business. The medical industry wouldn't be able to get away with some of the idiotic crap they pull with their billing if they had to list costs up front.

  • STOP LINKING PAYWALLS (Score:3)

    by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:31PM (#63061763)
    Gimme the non-paywall link please.

    • I usually just C&P the title into google and it spits out some various articles, some of which aren't paywalled.

      • Re:STOP LINKING PAYWALLS (Score:5, Insightful)

        by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:39PM (#63061785)
        Fuck that. They can make a proper link.

        • Fuck that. They can make a proper link.

          History suggests otherwise. I imagine some of these are just paid placement, anyway. It's probably cheap. How else do you explain the absolute rash of Bloomberg articles?

          • Why even have editors if they can't do something that simple? I can understand the occasional dupe, typo, etc. but this is something that's basic curtesy and pretty easy to verify. Paid placement of content should clearly be labeled as such.

            • Why even have editors if they can't do something that simple?

              I gotta tell you, I've been here considerably longer than my UID would suggest, which is already a pretty long time, and that has literally been a question the whole time I've been here. It's maybe reached an all-time high recently, but not by much. There were paywalled links and dupes of stories not yet even off of the front page even in days of yore.

              • Maybe if somebody could give them a bash script to do it for them we could get some change.

                At the same time, 90% of the value is in the discussion rather than the linked article which was probably newsworthy a few days ago.

                As for Ticketmaster... the total lack of antitrust enforcement on them for the past 25-30 years is a joke. Allowing a merger was just corrupt. I have no idea why a ticketing as a service platform has not popped up that charges ~5% including credit card fees has not popped up in all these

                • Maybe if somebody could give them a bash script to do it for them we could get some change.

                  Well, that's the problem, it's a perl script ;)

                  As for Ticketmaster... the total lack of antitrust enforcement on them for the past 25-30 years is a joke.

                  s/on them //

    • If you use Firefox, install "Bypass Paywalls Clean".

  • Can't log in using private browsing on Firefox any longer because Slashdot is using Cloudflare bullshit.

    Nerd news site forces users to make their system LESS SECURE in order to fully-utilize the website (eg log in and comment.)

    Here's the real news story for you.

    • Here's the real news story for you.

      At least something. I was worried I won't get any news today given everything is fucking paywalled on Slashdot these days.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Holi ( 250190 )

      It's been a long time since this was a "News for Nerds" site.

  • Who can even buy tickets for a show that is destined to sell out from ticketbastard anymore? They're all scooped up by resellers who charge double the price on upward.

    The resellers all have the same seats available as well, but I'm sure there's nothing shady going on there.

    • Re:Ticketbastard (Score:4, Informative)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:08PM (#63061867) Homepage

      Even worse, the resellers are other subsidiaries of Live Nation

    • Re:Ticketbastard (Score:4, Informative)

      by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:38PM (#63062137) Journal

      The best part: LiveNation issues the tickets to Ticketmaster, who then "sells" an allocation to their own ticket broker service that then adds additional markup on the ticket price, in addition to still paying all the service fees and bullshit.

      Basically the only place you'll ever see the MSRP of the event ticket is printed on the ticket itself (which doesn't even really exist any more because everything has turned into QR codes). Unless you have an probability-busting streak of good luck, you'll never actually pay that price to get a ticket.

      It's a fucking racket caused by being a total monopoly, and I hope the DoJ crawls up their ass and starts building an 8 bedroom / 4 bathroom home for investigators to live in up there.

  • Why wasn't this a problem before... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by insurgioFather ( 6387656 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:54PM (#63061831)

    The Justice Dept. Didn't seem to have an issue with their monopoly for decades. I'm not seeing poor infrastructure as an "abuse of power".
    Just observing, it seems to me both parties are guilty of such. If that is the point?
    A bunch of teeny boppers can't get tickets - Major issue.
    Corporation controlling access and pricing for decades - seemingly not an issue.

    • It’s been a problem since the 90s when Pearl Jam took them to court. https://www.rollingstone.com/m... [rollingstone.com]

      • This was a starting to be a problem in the early 1980s. It's only taken the government 40+ years to finally say they'll "look into it".

        I guess the moral of the story is - don't piss off Taylor Swift fans!

        • I guess the moral of the story is - don't piss off Taylor Swift fans!

          Or perhaps the moral of the story is to RTF story, or at least the summary: "but the investigation predates the botched sale"

    • A bunch of teeny boppers can't get tickets - Major issue.

      Taylor Swift has been releasing albums for 16 years [wikipedia.org]. It's entirely possible some of those teeny boppers would've been at the concert with their parents, who are also fans.

      The reality of what happened here is that Ticketmaster's site has always sucked and it couldn't handle the pent-up demand of fans wanting to see an artist who has released four original albums (Lover, Folklore, Evermore, Midnights) and 2 re-recordings (Fearless Taylor's Version, Red Taylor's Version) since her last major tour.

      But hey, thi

  • Ticketmaster/Live Nation is the Antichrist.

  • I think if you got scalpers under control the issue would be largely resolved. Ticketmaster seems either unwilling or unable to handle scalpers hacking their site, buying up as many tickets as they can to resale for profit. They'd be unwilling because a sale's a sale to them which also gives them incentive to claim they're unable, and it seems they're 'it' in an industry with a high entry barrier.

    The government is slow or unable to act because it has to be careful of regulation overreach. Fans could boycot

    • If a "sale is a sale" is used as an excuse to not do anything, then my question is "why is a sale to the actual seat holder not as good of a sale as one to a scalper?"

    • Re:Interesting issue (Score:5, Insightful)

      by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:55PM (#63062015) Journal

      Ticketmaster seems either unwilling or unable to handle scalpers hacking their site, buying up as many tickets as they can to resale for profit.

      You seem to assume that the scalpers are not Ticketmaster in another guise.

    • Part of the problem is they actually help the scalpers by giving them access the rest of us don't get ... according to a show/documentary I saw a few years back. As others have pointed out over time, the solution is pretty easy. Require the credit card that was used to purchase the tickets to be presented when getting or picking up the tickets, or when appearing at the show if that's when the tickets are redeemed. The only real problem with this is for tickets purchased as gifts, but I bet we can find a sol

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Entrope ( 68843 )

        The only real problem with this is for tickets purchased as gifts, but I bet we can find a solution for that.

        Allow the buyer to specify the name of the intended ticket holder when they buy the ticket. That should solve 99% of the cases that "present the same credit card" does not.

      • Require the credit card that was used to purchase the tickets to be presented when getting or picking up the tickets, or when appearing at the show if that's when the tickets are redeemed.

        And if I lose my credit card, and get a replacement with a new number? Just throw away the tickets?

    • Half the time, LiveNation (owner of Ticketmaster) issues blocks of tickets to their own ticket brokers (read: scalpers) where they mark up their own shit. For very sought-after tickets, it's not unheard of for single-digit percentages of tickets to be made available on TicketMaster, and the rest go to their brokers so they can make even more money through their total monopoly.

      The DoJ is right to look into this, it's long overdue, and I hope LiveNation ends up getting the AT&T bust-up treatment. Total

  • Why don't they make money? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by UMichEE ( 9815976 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:02PM (#63061855)

    Can someone help me understand why Ticketmaster isn't profitable? Even before the pandemic, the company was barely reporting any income for shareholders. Don't they essentially just act as a toll bridge for live events. Where do their costs come from? Is it just their exclusivity agreements with venues? Is Ticketmaster just a way for venues to make more money?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Powercntrl ( 458442 )

      Can someone help me understand why Ticketmaster isn't profitable?

      Hollywood accounting, probably.

  • Hidden ruling class ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:05PM (#63061857)

    Guess Summer had it right [youtube.com] in the S1E7 episode of Rick and Morty, Raising Gazorpazorp [fandom.com]:

    Summer: Granpa Rick, where are we going?
    Rick: Well obviously Summer, it appears the lower tier of this society is being manipulated through sex and advanced technology by a hidden ruling class. Sound familiar?
    Summer: (gasp) Ticketmaster!

  • VR (Score:2)

    by BranMan ( 29917 )

    This may be a little off-topic, but... this looks like a good opening.

    A lot of people say VR and the Metaverse is a solution in search of a problem. Well, this is actually probably the best problem the Metaverse can solve:

    Music Concerts.

    The basic problem is that a whole lot of people want to attend them, but even the biggest venues are limited. So prices are insane and people have to fight to get tickets. The solution may be VR - though much advanced from where it is now.

    If I could "virtually" attend a c

    • There are better solutions to solve the problem. Assuming a band or musician wants a fixed cost to see their show, the solution to an excess of demand is to increase the supply. If a show sells out, you can do another one. I've been to bands that have booked a venue for three nights in a row and sometimes it's a lot of fun to get tickets to each night and camp out there. Just keep offering more shows until the supply meets the demand. There's little room for scalpers in this situation so it's less of an iss

      • Pasrt of the sellout is the fact that you have very little oppertunties to see the artist live. If you increase that, you start getting dimishing results.

    • Okay, I don't know what boring concerts you are going to but I'm not interested in a virtual concert. Just put it on live stream if that's the case. I still likely won't care then.

      The whole point of going to concerts is to literally bump into people. Meet people. Enjoy music you love with a group of strangers that share your same love. It's pretty awesome experience that just isn't going to be the same in some fake corporate controlled all digital space.

      You probably think Demolition Man's "safe sex" was a g

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cstacy ( 534252 )

        Okay, I don't know what boring concerts you are going to but I'm not interested in a virtual concert. Just put it on live stream if that's the case. I still likely won't care then.

        The whole point of going to concerts is to literally bump into people. Meet people. Enjoy music you love with a group of strangers that share your same love.

        Why don't you think you can do that in VR?

        Because in VR if you don't like the person sitting next to you, you can wave a finger to swipe left and be seated next to someone else. Many option, Only want someone who has the same stage view you picked? Or change your view to get new person(s). Or ravel together as you change views. All kinds of interactions are possible.

        However, you won't be able to physically touch the person without wearing a suit, which most people will not have. And you'll miss the smells.

  • If grocery stores operated like ticketmaster... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:38PM (#63061951)

    You want a tomato? Oh, damn! Sorry, all of our tomatoes are sold out. But you can go and buy a tomato from that guy in the parking lot. It's five times the price we were asking, but you can have it now. When did he buy the tomatoes? Before we opened of course.

    Fuck Ticketmaster. I wish they had imploded many years ago.

  • This isn't even remotely new, either!

    Pearl Jam was fighting this all the way back in 1994!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Officials in the Biden administration have spent the last two years trying to push the boundaries of antitrust law.

    "Push the boundaries" == "enforce just a little instead of not at all".

  • We really are at the Bread and Circuses stage. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TigerPlish ( 174064 ) on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:56PM (#63062017)

    We really are at the Bread and Circuses stage of the destruction of our Republic, when Justice Dept is more bothered by some entertainer's ticket sales gone awry, instead of investigating all the government maleficence in this country. All the Fraud, Waste and Abuse, all the cheating, all the foreign influence.

    But, no. They're investigating some singer's ticket sales. I find this.. curious. Peculiar. Funny, but in a "huh, that's not supposed to work this way" manner.

    And yes I know ticketmaster should die in a fire, they've been ripping people off for as long as I've been going to concerts, but there are greater misdeeds perpetrated by the ruling class to be investigated and punished than this!

    But, of course, the ruling class owns Justice, so... yeah. Nothing will change unless this country actually has the balls to do a tabula-rasa cleaning of government.

  • So glad they are taking actions on the seriousness of concert tickets instead of focusing on lesser things like Medicare4All.

    To that end, the Dems had full control for 2 years and Pelosi had zero interest in even bringing it up...just like I said they wouldn't. Still, some Rube will fall for that again when they dangle it in front of you for your votes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by thomn8r ( 635504 )

      To that end, the Dems had full control for 2 years

      Full control of what, exactly? They couldn't so much as take a piss without McConnell blocking it.

      • they wouldn't even bring it to the floor...and "the squad" had every chance to force her to and caved. laughable and pathetic.

  • Redbox dipped their toes into selling tickets about 10 years ago. After the system went live, it was soon discovered that almost all large and even medium sized venues across the nation had an exclusive deal with Ticket Master. The project was soon shut down. Having an exclusive deal with nearly all medium and large sized venues across that nation sounds like a monopoly to me. As others complained, Pearl Jam tried to fight them in 1994. IIRC, Pearl Jam could not find an alternative to Ticket Master. H
    • This has been going on for many years. We used to have a Ticketron terminal in our office. They were competing against BASS which was later bought by Ticketmaster. Then, Ticketron faded away. People hated each one of these companies - pretty much equally. We started our business about that time. We sell software for box office accounting. We have competed with Ticketmaster ever since. We don't mind. They set a level of service and price that is very easy to beat. But, does this competition make a differe

  • A larger issue is how the venues themselves are "locked in" to LN and TM. Many of those venues are owned by government, paid for with citizen tax payer dollars. In the late 1990's I noticed that several states including Texas, Florida, NC & SC quietly changed their laws preventing "Sole Source" service bids, EG: preventing those venues from selling their tickets on the open market. And since that was during a time political contributions could be tracked, it was interesting to get reports of which elect

  • Some local, mid-level venues use AXS, while some smaller ones use Ticketfly.com. They are always much cheaper than Ticketmaster, which is still used by some of the bigger places.
    Pretty much none of them have done it in-house since e-tickets became a thing, but plenty used to do that.
    Ideally, there'd be an easy to implement, open-source ticket program that venues could use instead.

  • Seriously? Why aren't we hearing about an investigation of the eyeglass market? That's a much bigger monopoly which affects way more people.

    WIKI: "It has been accused of operating a complete monopoly on the optical industry and overcharging for its products; for example, temporarily dropping then-competitor Oakley from its frame design list, then, when the company stock crashed, purchasing the company, then increasing the prices of its Ray-Ban sunglasses."

    "In 2019, LensCrafters founder E. Dean Butler spoke

  • Cory Doctorow has an in depth book about this very subject. It documents how Ticketmaster has effectively captured all of the profit from the artists. It's a fascinating read:
    https://craphound.com/category... [craphound.com]

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