New York Breaks the Right To Repair Bill as It's Signed Into Law (theverge.com) 78
An anonymous reader shares a report: New York governor Kathy Hochul signed the Digital Fair Repair Act on December 28th, 2022, and the law will go into effect on July 1st, 2023 -- a full year after it was originally passed by the NY State legislature. The bill establishes that consumers and independent repair providers have a right to obtain manuals, diagrams, diagnostics and parts from original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in order to repair their own devices. However, the bill was meaningfully compromised at the last minute by amendments that give OEMs some convenient exceptions and loopholes to get out of obligations that many right to repair advocates had been hoping for.
One of the most controversial adjustments in the signed law is that it allows OEMs to sell assemblies of parts instead of individual components if they choose to. The bill also won't require OEMs to provide "passwords, security codes or materials" to bypass security features, which is sometimes necessary to do to save a locked, but otherwise functionally fine device. This makes the bill "functionally useless," according to Louis Rossmann, a repair technician who has been a fierce advocate of toothy right to repair legislation. Rossmann responded today to the amended bill with a video full of detailed analysis and criticism. Hochul claims in her signed memorandum that the bill was amended to lessen the risk of physical harm or security issues while making repairs, an amendment that Rossman calls "bullshit" and expects manufacturers to exploit in circumvention of the spirit of the bill.
One of the most controversial adjustments in the signed law is that it allows OEMs to sell assemblies of parts instead of individual components if they choose to. The bill also won't require OEMs to provide "passwords, security codes or materials" to bypass security features, which is sometimes necessary to do to save a locked, but otherwise functionally fine device. This makes the bill "functionally useless," according to Louis Rossmann, a repair technician who has been a fierce advocate of toothy right to repair legislation. Rossmann responded today to the amended bill with a video full of detailed analysis and criticism. Hochul claims in her signed memorandum that the bill was amended to lessen the risk of physical harm or security issues while making repairs, an amendment that Rossman calls "bullshit" and expects manufacturers to exploit in circumvention of the spirit of the bill.
I wonder which politicians ... (Score:3)
received a donation "for research" at the last minute ?
Re: I wonder which politicians ... (Score:1)
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Re: I wonder which politicians ... (Score:2)
Re: I wonder which politicians ... (Score:2)
Re:Backdoor requirement stripped (Score:5, Informative)
Cough, bullshit.
The 'security locks' the release of proprietary tools and security codes are needed for consist of nonsense such as random parts such as screens or batteries being Serialized and paired to the CPU, so the device won't work without using a Proprietary software program and security code to pass an arbitrary lock or reset an error flag.
The original bill doesn't require a backdoor; Only the same access the manufacturer has. The need for "security" codes is for the Manufacturer's security against people replacing parts instead of buying a new one, Not the end user's security.
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They're complaining about things like not being able to bypass the administrator bios password on an ex-corporate Thinkpad laptop so it can be refurbished and put back into service.
Are pin resets of the BIOS a thing of the past then, or is it just that it's a bit more tricky on a laptop?
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There absolutely are trivial methods of clearing the BIOS password of Laptops, Yes.
This is NOT the right-to-repair issue and isn't about what the amendment is excepting. The entire notion that the tools and codes needed are to "Break in" to locked devices is a complete misrepresentation of the issue that the OEM's lobbyists are pushing.
The manufacturers have been using this piece of Disinformation the entire time, and the FTC Already commented about that there is in fact Not legitimate security being pr
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And when it comes to Apple devices - Anyone can wipe and reuse the device - their security feature is called Activation Lock that is server side, And no backdoor method or password is capable of bypassing it. They have no Legitimate reason for 3rd party repair shops to Not have security codes or tools necessary to replace a battery or board component And pair the new replacement with the existing hardware.
With one narrow exception, I agree. Being able to bypass the activation lock on a motherboard to use it to repair another device, even if doing so results in wiping the device, would greatly increase the value of stolen phones, because thieves could just take two phones apart, swap the motherboards, do that wipe, and have two working phones. That's clearly undesirable.
But all pairing tools not involving unlocking a locked motherboard should absolutely be required to be made available to anyone.
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would greatly increase the value of stolen phones, because thieves could just take two phones apart, swap the motherboards, do that wipe, and have two working phones. That's clearly undesirable.
Getting a backdoor to circumvent customer passwords for accessing data or Activation lock was not part of what right to repair included in the first place. The security feature is the mechanism that protect customer's data..
But technically the Activation lock IS the type of thing A Bypass ought to be required to b
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The 'security locks' the release of proprietary tools and security codes are needed for consist of nonsense such as random parts such as screens or batteries being Serialized and paired to the CPU, so the device won't work without using a Proprietary software program and security code to pass an arbitrary lock or reset an error flag.
Depends on how they wrote the exception. There absolutely are legitimate security features that the manufacturer should not allow you to get around.
I think that nearly all consumers wou
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Not all passwords have to grant root access.
And these companies are setting up passwords for the sole purpose of preventing people from replacing parts. On items like TVs that do not have a significant problem with theft.
Also, the passwords are also used to ensure that when you connect to the internet you have no privacy. How dare you object to us tracking your laundry use.
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So with the new bill.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I manufacture a device. I can sell "replacement" parts in the form of $300 assemblies in the event a $5 part goes bad.
Then after you buy the assembly I can charge you a $500 "Activation fee" for a serial number granting you a one-time license to Pair a new assembly with a CPU. After $800 in fees plus labor... You will instead just opt to buy a new $800 phone from me.
Re:So with the new bill.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I manufacture a device. I can sell "replacement" parts in the form of $300 assemblies in the event a $5 part goes bad.
Then after you buy the assembly I can charge you a $500 "Activation fee" for a serial number granting you a one-time license to Pair a new assembly with a CPU. After $800 in fees plus labor... You will instead just opt to buy a new $800 phone from me.
Good point. However, whenever any company tries to aggressively ass-rape me in that way, they never again receive any money from me, and I do my level best to warn others. If everyone treated these fuckers that way, the world would be a much freer and better place.
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STONKS!
Re:So with the new bill.. (Score:5, Informative)
I presume you don't buy anything from Apple, as this is their modus operandi :D
Re:So with the new bill.. (Score:5, Interesting)
This also results in PARTS for those laptops bottoming out in price for a long, LONG time. A new 1080P IPS screen for a T480 only costs 40 buckaroos on ebay. A whole mobo is maybe a hundo.
Point being you don't need to rely on the manufacturer for repair parts, sometimes the bulk of the used market will take care of it for you.
Apple, though, is always fucked. Avoid.
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I'm gonna ask for a citation, please. I have a few Apple devices, and I haven't had anything close to that experience. I've also repaired almost 100 Apple devices - iPhones and iPads - and have never had to pay an activation fee for a part for a customer to use their mobile device after repair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Guy takes several iPhones, identical models, and swaps parts, and shows that various things about the device stop working.
You're right though there's no activation fee, because it's not even for sale. There's no solution. OP was being facetious, giving a premonition of the future.
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and have never had to pay an activation fee for a part for a customer to use
No.. The current situation is the part is not available at all. The activation thing is a sort of thing OEMs might entertain After the right to repair law as a means of malicious compliance and fully exploiting the loophole If they don't fully satisfy themself with the "allowed to provide the battery as only a larger expensive assembly for Safety or Security reasons" exception - they can dip into both methods of maliciously
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At the risk of appearing to sound like a fan-boi, part availability is a fact of life. ..
Continuous part availability for old equipment is Not what right to repair was even about though. After all the compromises they'd made the requirement was to be for any parts available to the Manufacturer to also be available for 3rd party repair.
If the unit's out of warranty and the Manufacturer doesn't make or have the parts available from themself, Then they would not be required to supply the parts, either.
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I presume you don't buy anything from Apple, as this is their modus operandi :D
As a matter of fact, I do not buy any thing from Apple for this (and many other) reasons.
I once tried to replace the screen on my Nexus 4, the part was $40, however I'm pretty sure I ballsed up the repair job. OTOH, I bought a new Asus laptop recently, replaced the SSD with a better model and added an additional 8 GB of RAM without a hitch.
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Good point. However, whenever any company tries to aggressively ass-rape me in that way, they never again receive any money from me, and I do my level best to warn others. If everyone treated these fuckers that way, the world would be a much freer and better place.
Yeah, I'm not seeing Apple changing its tune...
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Good point. However, whenever any company tries to aggressively ass-rape me in that way..
The average end consumer won't become aware of what's happening here - Only that whichever repair shop they called for an estimate will tell them the motherboard needs replaced. The customer is not likely to have a long discussion with the retailer over the state of the repair market or the fact that the repair could have cost $100 instead of $1000, But the manufacturer still refuses to sell or let them install the
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How about if companies keep whining that their profits will be hurt stocking parts and having repair transparency then force companies to adopt a modular design. My gues
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The shutter in my Canon M50 that I use for travel died prematurely but outside the warranty. I was quoted around $250, almost half of what a new Mark ii body costs.
Eventually I found a replacement part on Aliexpress for $70 and even doing it for the first time it took me about an hour. Pretty fiddly with lots of similar but different enough screws and ribbon cables, but no bullshit like glued components.
This time I lucked out with the Ali spare, but it's now up to $110. I'd be great if they just sold you th
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Something like this happened to me. Drain pump went out in a (very nice) dishwasher. The model was no longer in production or supported for spares. I tried to ask about a 'generic' replacement pump. And I could actually sense the fear in the appliance parts sales people. They are not permitted to bypass or even suggest alternatives. I suppose for liability purposes.
So I went down to the local hardware store and bought a fountain pump and a few hose adapters. Put it in and it works fine. But I'm surprised t
So treating adult consumers as small children (Score:3)
Mustn't touch, you could hurt yourself little boy.
Said by the same corporations that whine about the nanny state when they're required to install guard rails around a vat of strong acid.
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So you just chose a random message to reply to with that?
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guess who fell in
Re:This sounds like fake controversy (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem with it is there is no definition of where the "threshold" for making something an assembly is. For instance, if your spark plugs are old and in need of changing, or if your head gasket is leaking, there is nothing in the law to stop the manufacturer from saying the entire engine needs replacement. Or if one capacitor blows up on a logic board, the entire electronics assembly must be replaced. So where IS the line between "assembly" and "component"?
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> So where IS the line between "assembly" and "component"?
After these amendments the line will be right above where it's smarter to create more e-Waste and buy a replacement.
That's a separate issue though (Score:2)
Requiring repairable tech is a separate issue. Europe's the only one that seems interested in that. I'd love to see some of that, and NY is big enough especially if they work with CA on a similar law. But it's still a separate issue.
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Or if one capacitor blows up on a logic board, the entire electronics assembly must be replaced. So where IS the line between "assembly" and "component"?
In this case since schematics are required to be made available you can look up what the capacitor is and buy one from Mouser or Digikey.
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In this case since schematics are required to be made available you can look up what the capacitor is and buy one from Mouser or Digikey.
Capacitor is a bad example because capacitors are generally marked with their ratings. And even if they're not, it's fairly simple to test capacitors, so if you can get a non-failed capacitor off of another board (perhaps one where something other than that capacitor has failed) then you can measure it and be pretty confident that every board of that model will use the same value.
The issue is with custom chips that the original manufacturer either designed or paid another company to design and purchases the
Re: This sounds like fake controversy (Score:2)
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There is a point where bitching and moaning is pointless because even if the part was available you have zero chance of making a successful repair.
Re: This sounds like fake controversy (Score:2)
It's not about what people can do at home, it's about what repair shops can do, and allowing you to pay a repair shop 150 â to replace that chip for you instead of paying apple 1000+ for a new full logic board or a new computer and creating more e-waste.
If you follow rossmann a bit, he gives a striking example. In macs, there's a chip that handles power of charging. That chip fails often. The chip costs a few dollars, and replacing it by a repair shop is a 30min job.
Problem is, that chip is a slightly
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Problem with it is there is no definition of where the "threshold" for making something an assembly is.
It's the same as what the manufacturer's own repair facilities use. If they don't desolder one bad chip but replace an entire daughterboard, that's all they should be required to supply to you.
Ins't that backwards? (Score:1)
Don't let the free market decide what is economical
Isn't the free market deciding today what is economical?
Adding a law that forces manufacturers to do something, and to change the design of products, is the opposite of the free market at work...
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> Isn't the free market deciding today what is economical?
No.
> Adding a law that forces manufacturers to do something
The laws stop people from sourcing individual chips using anti-competitive agreements. I'm sure chip manufacturers have no problem back dooring a shipment of chips at a far more inflated price to what Apple negotiates. The laws force manufacturers to what is in Apple's best interest.
--
Think before you post.
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Isn't the free market deciding today what is economical?
No.
Going back to your original post, definitely you who is retarded.
And that's all I have to say about THAT.
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> And that's all I have to say about THAT.
Really? No comeback on the part where you got owned? Maybe if you don't mention it, it will go away.
The laws stop people from sourcing individual chips using anti-competitive agreements. I'm sure chip manufacturers have no problem back dooring a shipment of chips at a far more inflated price to what Apple negotiates. The laws force manufacturers to what is in Apple's best interest.
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Adding a law that forces manufacturers to do something, and to change the design of products, is the opposite of the free market at work..
I don't know what this NY law says, but a big part of the problem is big, consumer facing, companies from using contracts to forbid their component suppliers selling to anyone else.
I wrote in more detail in another post, but basically using contracts and purchasing power to create a monopoly by saying "I'll buy from you only if you agree not to sell to anyone else". That's a distortion of the free market. It's fine to say "I'm your biggest customer, give me your lowest price" but when you go further to say
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> Who is retarded?
People who think that government regulators (e.g. FCC) are part of a free market.
That's why Verizon phones become eWaste after a few years (crypto-locked bootloaders). There is no disclosure and you can't sell a competing phone without FCC permission.
No such thing as a free market (Score:2)
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Also the guy that modded up the guy who can't spell "gun"?
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Uh, and food is optional. You can totally choose to not eat it.. ... riiight.
There is hope (Score:2)
Rossmann's beef is mostly with big corporations like Appple. And the thing with big corporations is, they also sell in countries and territories that aren't utterly corrupt like the US. Particularly Europe.
So it's just a matter of waiting for Europe to enact sane right-to-repair bills, then Rossmann will be able to purchase his individual components from European resellers. Sure the resellers will scalp him on the price, and he'll pay through the nose for shipping and import duties. But even paying $50 for
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Sadly, this won't work, since the American versions of the HW, due to FCC regulations, will be different (and locked), and will use that as an excuse to not accept any EU versions of the HW.
Kathy Hochul was paid off. (Score:1)
repair kit (Score:2)
> One of the most controversial adjustments in the signed law is that it allows OEMs to sell assemblies of parts instead of individual components
Yes, you can buy the repair kit for your phone, its $1099. All you have to do is swap the SIM card.
Aren't laws great?
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It's a step in the right direction. We can and will improve things. In the mean time, some honest companies might actually do the right thing, and follow the spirit of the law.
No, I haven't been eating strange mushrooms. Why do you ask?
I hope every politician (Score:2)
Unsurprising (Score:1)