Atmospheric Dust May Have Hidden True Extent of Global Heating (theguardian.com) 115
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Dust that billows up from desert storms and arid landscapes has helped cool the planet for the past several decades, and its presence in the atmosphere may have obscured the true extent of global heating caused by fossil fuel emissions. Atmospheric dust has increased by about 55% since the mid-1800s, an analysis suggests. And that increasing dust may have hidden up to 8% of warming from carbon emissions. The analysis by atmospheric scientists and climate researchers in the US and Europe attempts to tally the varied, complex ways in which dust has affected global climate patterns, concluding that overall, it has worked to somewhat counteract the warming effects of greenhouse gasses. The study, published in Nature Reviews Earth and Environment, warns that current climate models fail to take into account the effect of atmospheric dust.
About 26m tons of dust are suspended in our atmosphere, scientists estimate. Its effects are complicated. Dust, along with synthetic particulate pollution, can cool the planet in several ways. These mineral particles can reflect sunlight away from the Earth and dissipate cirrus clouds high in the atmosphere that warm the planet. Dust that falls into the ocean encourages the growth of phytoplankton -- microscopic plants in the ocean -- that absorb carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Dust can also have a warming effect in some cases -- darkening snow and ice, and prompting them to absorb more heat. But after they tallied everything up, it seemed clear to researchers that the dust had an overall cooling effect.
About 26m tons of dust are suspended in our atmosphere, scientists estimate. Its effects are complicated. Dust, along with synthetic particulate pollution, can cool the planet in several ways. These mineral particles can reflect sunlight away from the Earth and dissipate cirrus clouds high in the atmosphere that warm the planet. Dust that falls into the ocean encourages the growth of phytoplankton -- microscopic plants in the ocean -- that absorb carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Dust can also have a warming effect in some cases -- darkening snow and ice, and prompting them to absorb more heat. But after they tallied everything up, it seemed clear to researchers that the dust had an overall cooling effect.
If only... (Score:2)
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And yet when a volcano goes off big enough, it actually stalls global warming because of all the extra sunlight being blocked and reflected. We should be warmer then we are but we've had some volcano activity in the past decade that helped slow things down a bit.
If Yosemite blows, the whole world is likely dead because of all the particles that will get pushed into the air. Temperatures will drop and mass crop failure will result.
What won't happen is us becoming Venus.
But yeah, contrails are the real proble
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Why would you go through so many steps.
Build a massive solar reflector to reflect the sun away from the earth. Job Done.
Hidden seems like the wrong word (Score:4, Insightful)
The dust didn't "hide" anything - the extra heat isn't there.
The summary uses the word "countered" as well... which seems much more accurate - and less agenda-driven.
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If the dust is expected to return to the previous levels, then it's accurate to say that it temporarily masked the warming we face. If the phenomenon causing the dust increase were expected to continue indefinitely, then you'd have a point.
Unfortunately, the article clarifies that the dust levels are falling since the 1980s -- so the use of "hidden" is absolutely correct, since it appears the dust (which was caused partly by human impacts) isn't sticking around.
Re:Hidden seems like the wrong word (Score:4)
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Well that depends, do you expect the Sahara to vanish anytime soon?
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Unfortunately, the article clarifies that the dust levels are falling since the 1980s
I wonder if some of that is because the planet is greening?
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/g... [nasa.gov]
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Article exaggerates claims of article (Score:3)
The total effect of dust interactions on the global energy budget of Earth — the dust effective radiative effect — is -0.2±0.5W/m^2 (90% confidence interval), suggesting that dust net cools the climate. Global dust mass loading has increased 55±30% since pre-industrial times, driven largely by increases in dust from Asia and North Africa, leading to changes in the energy budget of Earth. Indeed, this increase in dust has produced a global mean effective radiative forcing of -0.07±0.18W/m^2, somewhat counteracting greenhouse warming. Current climate models and climate assessments do not represent the historical increase in dust and thus omit the resulting radiative forcing, biasing climate change projections and assessments of climate sensitivity. Climate model simulations of future changes in dust diverge widely and are very uncertain. Further work is thus needed to constrain the radiative effects of dust on climate and to improve the representation of dust in climate models.
(I had to edit the quote slightly to make it legible with slashdot's html handling.)
Both the effective radiative effect and effective radiative forcing could be positive or negative in the 90% range. Only the global dust mass loading has increased since pre-industrial times with 90% confidence.
I don't doubt that dust could have an effect on the climate, but this paper doesn't provide much insight into its positive or negative overall impact.
Save the World (Score:1)
...scuff your feet! And not just on Mondays.
Dust probably is just one more control loop (Score:4, Insightful)
- Wind increases
- More dust is raised
- Dust attenuates warming
There are plenty of these control loops in our ecosystem. No need to worry for this. What we really need is to understand correctly how much of these control loops exist, and how much humans are perturbing them.
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Jordan Peterson has been interviewing some highly credentialed climate scientists recently.
Jordan Peterson has the problem that he's championed a lot of specious bullshit because of his fragile masculinity, so now he's got that odor about him. I'm willing to look at summaries of material involving him, but not to waste my time watching anything he's hosted.
Global warming is highly politicised by govt and media away from what the science actually says.
That's true. The science says it's a much bigger problem than they're acting like it is.
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Competent and smart people easily become over confident and over extend outside their domain. Like that old saying "rising to the level of one's own incompetence."
The smart ones can probably most the time do better than average at anything they invest the time into and rather quickly too. If famous, you get a false confidence from exposure to average and below average people where before as a not-famous expert you likely were under-exposed to slow people. Then there is the whole problem of audience captur
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Cool now do Anthony Fauci, Bill Nye, Al Gore, ...
Sensationalist (Score:4)
But after they tallied everything up, it seemed clear to researchers that the dust had an overall cooling effect.
Is that a fair rewording of the paper?
In the modern climate, the global mean effective radiative effect of dust, R, is estimated as 0.2±0.5Wm2 (Fig. 3). As such, despite considerable uncertainty in the sign and magnitude of R, which arises from the numerous uncertain and sometimes opposing mechanisms, it is more likely that dust cools the climate than warms the climate.
Note that the error is twice as large as the effect size and ranges over both positive and negative effects. But the authors are very open that there is an uncertainty issue
Climate model simulations of future changes in dust diverge widely and are very uncertain. Further work is thus needed to constrain the radiative effects of dust on climate and to improve the representation of dust in climate models.
Overall, the Guardian write up seems rather sensationalized. The effect could very possibly swing the other way. And when the speculation is "well maybe models didn't account for this" how do you directly attribute that to "fossil fuels" vs other heating factors such as methane, how do you rule out additional unknown factors? I didn't see any claim like that in the actual paper, or in quotes from the author in the write up. Seems like the person who wrote the Guardian article just thought they personally "knew enough" to extend and embolden the conclusions.
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Did you expect anything more from the Guardian? They have their agenda to push after all.
Old news (Score:2)
So... (Score:2)
...the smoke from coal generations helps to cool the planet while killing people?
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Pretty sensational headline (Score:2)
Hey, that's a pretty alarmist headline for the following sequence of events:
Principle Investigator: I propose that atmospheric dust may have an effect on climate. (*does research*) Whoa. Looks like my hypothesis is true.
Climate Science Academic Community: Our models are incomplete according to this research. We need to adjust them.
Wow, they found another variable. What exactly is being "hidden?"
I swear, science press headlines need to die in a fire. Clickbait sucks.
Er (Score:4, Interesting)
But after they tallied everything up, it seemed clear to researchers that the dust had an overall cooling effect.
Then how is that "hiding"? It's literally "counteracting".
It's like saying you "hid" how dirty you are by taking a bath.
More climate change, no Twitter files. (Score:1)
Another year, another factor found. (Score:1)
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This is science marching onward. Models just get better and usually more complex.
Duh, you use the BEST answer you have at the time.
This is OLD stuff, current modeling factored in global dimming for at least a decade now - particle pollution (cooling) is largely tied to chemical pollution (warming) and as we phase the worse one out the other will at it's own speed go away as well. I would guess particles will leave faster than chemical gasses so if we stop overnight there will be a period of warming that a
deception? (Score:2)
The entire thing is written as if there is some sort of deception or trickery going on.
The dust has a cooling effect.
Shouldn't we be glad it did this? Isn't this exactly the intent of some geo engineering proposals: to loft chemicals or particulates to block solar heating?
Are those projects being described as projects to "hide" warming?
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Though the problem is this: We are slowly reducing particle emissions (filters and stuff like that), so in time the dust amount goes down.
And with it, the cooling effect goes down.
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One might hypothesize that this is really the key cause of the purported recent 'spike' in warming due to CO2.
If particulates have been a major issue since the start of the industrial revolution, and we relatively recently started doing things that actually reduced them then a gradual multi-century warming trend would instead look like a hockey-stick with 'sudden' recent warming coinciding with the clearing.
THIS IS OLD SCIENCE (Score:3)
GLOBAL DIMMING has been around for probably a few decades now.
At 1st it was controversial as it looked like the deniers may be funding more junk science to tell us smoking is good for your health. It proved to align with global warming science in the end.
The dimming does help but this particle pollution is largely generated by the SAME warming chemical pollution and it does not just cancel out which is why we still had a huge problem. What it showed:
1) humans are the cause (already known but in the denial p
The dust counts. It's part of the system (Score:2)
loaded language (Score:2)
Why is it framed as "hid the true extent of" rather than "has been reducing the severity of". Is the dust variable on of noise or of signal?
Story Time! (Score:2)
global heating (Score:1)
Wait, does global heating cause global warming? Or the other way around? Maybe they mean glow-ball heating? Warming? Frying? Roasting? It's all so confusing. The only certain thing is that the sky is surely falling.
Global warming BS (Score:1)
A normal person (Score:2)
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Clickbait headlines. It pays to wright headlines that way because when people read "It might/may/can/could" most see "It will/does/is" so that get's the people frightened and thus they click on the link to read more.
Just like that story about jet contrails the other day that stated they "may" be warming up the planet. Anyone who has ever been siting outside when a contrail slowly drifts across the sun knows there is a noticeable cooling affect as they pass over since they are essentially a cloud and ther
Re:May... strange world for scare people (Score:4, Informative)
> They are cooling but somehow they are magically warming up the planet.
"... Like regular cirrus clouds, contrail cirrus clouds have two competing effects on climate. They shade us by reflecting incoming sunlight back into space. But they also trap heat radiating from the earth’s surface, so causing warming in the air below. During the day, cooling compensates part of the warming. But at night, with no sunlight, only the warming effect operates ..."
https://e360.yale.edu/features... [yale.edu]
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The earth, for most of its history, did not have fossil fuels
lol lolo lool. Earth had fossil fuels for most of its history. It was just that nobody harvested it en-masse until a couple of centuries ago.
Re:May... strange world for scare people (Score:4, Funny)
I think we need to put this problem solely at the feet of those most directly responsible. You know who I'm talking about... it was those animal rights hippies who lobbied against whaling! If we had stuck to using oil from whale blubber none of this ever would have happened!!!
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How much a year is made by this proccess?
If we are still using more then that a year then the same issues arrive.
Re:May... strange world for scare people (Score:4, Informative)
Re: May... strange world for scare people (Score:2)
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Yes, that would be the coal we are digging up and burning at a far faster rate than peat bogs are being converted to "rocks"
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Not those rocks, the other rocks. Specifically, carbonates, like calcium carbonate. A company in Iceland is working on accelerating the process [phys.org], but it would eventually happen over thousands or millions of years anyway.
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"it would eventually happen over thousands or millions of years anyway"
Thousands? hardly at all, millions at least to tens of millions
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It is really hard to tell what is the result of Dunning Kruger [wikipedia.org] and what is bald-faced disinformation [wikipedia.org]
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You are "wright".
This is the "wright" headline.
We need more "wrighting" like this.
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Actually, it has and they know. No idea what the "may" is doing in the headline. Probably some ass-covering. Estimates are about 0.5C being hidden from dust from fossile and other industry emissions alone. Yes, that is one reason why 1.5C is already out of reach because these emissions and the respective dust will go away and then everything gets hotter. No, continuing like we do is even worse.
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That dust is the result of desertification that started thousands of years ago.
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Re: May... strange world for scare people (Score:2, Insightful)
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Your attitude towards humanity disqualifies you from making meaningful contributions to this discussion.
Re: May... strange world for scare people (Score:3)
Re: May... strange world for scare people (Score:4, Informative)
I think existing humans should continue to thrive. I also recognize that Earth would be a better place for humans if population were under a billion.
Then why the fuck are you lecturing us? ALL the population growth is in the third world. ALL of industrialized civilization has declining birth rates, some to the point where their family trees are inverted, and the nations may not even exist as a distinct ethnicity in 100 years.
And yet... it's always people from the industrialized, and yes, civilized world that are told to stop having babies, even when it flies in the face of their own people's survival. Why is it that you're telling us to abort our kids, but you don't go to Nigeria or Pakistan or any number of bush countries or Central Asian 'stans where women are having 6 or 7 kids on average?
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How dare a pig say "I'm a mess."
How date a mouse say "My only purpose is to reproduce because my role is food."
How dare an individual member of the greatest plague use this plague's unique ability to be self-aware!
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Calling humanity "the greatest plague" says everything we need to know about your and your ilk's values.
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Translation: you don't know shit, you never took a science course in your life, and don't understand how science works.
Exactly why are you posting here?
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"Yeah, here's one more negative feedback we completely, absolutely failed to take into account when we built our theories."
Yes: scientists may have missed a factor that would change their results by 8 percent! Call out all the deniers and tell them that they were right all along!
Re:In other words... (Score:5, Informative)
They didn't miss it, the summary is wrong. Scientists have been studying the effects of dust on AGW for decades. The present report is just a continuation of that effort.
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As Geoffrey notes above, they missed a worldwide cooling effect of EIGHT PERCENT
False. They have so far failed to account for a cooling effect of not more than eight percent, which is what "up to 8%" means. HTH, HAND.
Correction [Re:In other words...] (Score:2)
As Geoffrey notes above, they missed a worldwide cooling effect of EIGHT PERCENT, which is
[not]
quite a lot for something that's been studied for the last few decades
The current climate model predictions have published error bars of plus or minus 50%. 8% error is well within the published error bars.
Which you would know if you read any actual information about climate, and not just popularizations (or, worse, misinformation spread by think-tanks funded by oil companies).
...Note that all of those decades of studies managed to completely miss their predictions, all of them on the high end of reality.
Incorrect. In fact, the models have been historically remarkably good at prediction [nasa.gov]. Something you would also know if you read actual science, and not misinformation spread by think-tanks funded
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"The lockdowns and reduced societal activity related to the COVID-19 pandemic affected emissions of pollutants in ways that slightly warmed the planet for several months last year, according to new research led by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/r... [sciencedaily.com]
MOD +1 offtopic for citing scientific phenomenon that contradict the narrative and +1 troll for including the source.
Re:Imagine what else they don't know (Score:5, Informative)
The basic mechanism underlying global warming has now been a basic published fact for 128 years. A fact, and the occurrence of which, the fossil fuel industry itself verified in the 1970s, before the monsters who will ultimately be responsible for more deaths than any individual or small group that has ever lived decided to embark on a systematic worldwide lying and gaslighting campaign and deny it.
Re:Imagine what else they don't know (Score:5, Insightful)
Are these the same monsters who added approximately a trillion man-years to humanity? The monsters who made heat and food so cheap that hundreds of millions of people were freed to work on things like medicine and computers and physics?
Re:Imagine what else they don't know (Score:4, Insightful)
While a stepping stone may get you across a river, it is no place to build your house.
However, you should expect people that profit from the stepping stone to want yo to continue relying on it
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Or without some alternative, like a bridge, boat, vaulting pole, or zip line. Or some other stepping stone.
Re: Imagine what else they don't know (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Imagine what else they don't know (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet climate scientists have been making accurate predictions consistently for the last 150 years that scientists have been warning about this.
Weather is hard. Climate however, is surprisingly simple.
Its just thermodynamics. You have a bunch of sun shining on the atmosphere. You have an albedo reflecting some of it back out again and a general thermal emmission disposing of the rest. We know the spectral properties of CO2. We can verify it with a prism in a highschool classroom with an off the shelf IR camera. And we've known those properties since the 1800s when Fourier and other scientists looked at CO2 in the lab and went "Oh shit, this industrial revolution could lead to unforseen problems".
Beyond that its just fundamental thermodynamics. That upper atmosphere absorbsion must respect conservation of energy. The added energy either gets converted to thermal energy (warming) or kinetic energy (storms, winds, etc).
Yes there are wrinkles to this, such as the paper quoted supplies, and unfortunately most of those wrinkles are bad. The Permafrost should be the one that keeps you up at night.
But we've understood the broad effect and have been able to calculate the broad increase in energy to a very large degree of accuract in the atmospheric system for a very long time now. Its a back of the napkin sort of calculation. And we've known how to do it longer than anyone reading this has been alive.
The rest is details, wrinkles, and a degree of headscratching over how the actually quite simple climate system translates into a rather more complicated weather system over time.
I've worked in and out of the research for a good 15 years now. I dont think a lot of you folks quite appreciate just how dire the situation has gotten, and just how far ahead the research is on the matter.
And I do wish they would mix in more money. One thing we all learn doing climate science is, it sure as fuck doesnt get you rich. The only way to make money in climate science is to take the bribes from the climate denial industry and join the llucrative denialism industry. The problem is is, none of us got into science because we want to make the world worse on behalf of shady PR wonks. And the fact so very very few take the bribe should tell you a little bit about just how unanimous the consensus is.
I'd rather my children have a world worth living in.
Re:Imagine what else they don't know (Score:5, Insightful)
It's so complex, you don't even know what it is. Thermodynamics uses statistical mechanics so doesn't require modeling particles and instead uses probability distributions. Perhaps you are confused since modeling particles allows one to compute various thermodynamics properties, but the GP was talking about using thermodynamics directly. One can come up with a useful model just by considering the energy in and out of the earth.
What you have been doing in your denial of climate science is exploiting the fact that most people don't have the time and expertise to learn the science, including yourself.
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So why exactly did you say this?
The idea of statistical mechanics is to predict information about a
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Yes, you can build a lumped parameter model with some small number of coupled lumps and use an energy balance to forecast responses.
What you can't do with those simple models is determine who wins and who pays.
So, we obviously need much more complicated models with hundreds of confounding variables.
btw, I do lumped models for heat transfer systems analysis professionally.
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Agreed. I just think it's interesting that such simple lump models give close predictions to more complex models. This makes them a good tool for a basic explanation of the science. However, we need the more complex models for a range of reasons.
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I mean if you need to model the minute details in a system, then yes, thermodynamics as you describe is hard. But if you are primarily concerned with the thermodynamics of the system, things get much easier.
Take for example, studying the mixing of cold creamer into a mug of hot coffee, where the initial conditions are well characterized. If you were trying to model the turbulent mixing of the creamer into the coffee with a grid scale of millimeters or smaller at microsecond resolution, you would need a pret
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The permafrost and the glaciers are both A-level important, I'd say. Most of the places where humans live are threatened by sea level rise in one way or another. A huge percentage of America's food (as in, what we actually eat here) is produced in the Sacramento river valley, and anticipated sea level rise plus one decent tsunami can inundate the whole thing with saltwater in one fell sploosh.
The methane thing though, yeah.
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The Sacramento river valley produces a third of the USA -produce- not a third of all food stock.
California produces 40% of the food we eat in the USA.
You can live off soybeans
No, I can't. I can't digest soy. If you sneak it into my food in pretty much any form I will get indigestion, upset stomach, liquishits, the whole thing... even if I don't know it's in there.
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Your personal food digestibility inequality is immaterial.
It's material to whether I can live on soy, dingus.
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HEHE, only rich people really get to live near the water anyway. FUCK THEM!!! I'll be just fine. In fact, if the sea rises enough, I'll have ocean front property. I'm really not seeing the problem.
Besides, the rich will demand the rest of us spend all our resources saving their precious homes and we will!!!
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So you agree with need to make earth great again? Take us back to pre-industrialization, right?
As a white man, I'll be fine. Pretty sure the rest of you are going to be really unhappy with how things go though. Go read a history book and tell me today is not the best of all times, because it really is in fact the best time to be alive.
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Climate science is ridiculously hard. Chaos theory hard.
Fooling all of the people all of the time hard.
Now mix in politics and, more importantly, money.
Pimping ain't easy. Selling "carbon offset credits" on the other hand...
Ya, we have no idea what's going on. Not a single fucking clue. Anthropologic climate change may be a thing,
"Climate Change" is old and busted. "Climate Disruption" is the new hotness.
but we really aren't in any position to say one way or another.
*we'll just make shit up as we go along. FTFY.