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Education Science

Steep Declines In Data Science Skills Among Fourth- and Eighth-Graders Across America, Study Finds (phys.org) 228

Posted by BeauHD from the not-what-we'd-like-to-see dept.
A new report (PDF) from the Data Science 4 Everyone coalition reveals that data literacy skills among fourth and eighth-grade students have declined significantly over the last decade even as these skills have become increasingly essential in our modern, data-driven society. Phys.Org reports: Based on data from the latest National Assessment of Educational Progress results, the report uncovered several trends that raise concerns about whether the nation's educational system is sufficiently preparing young people for a world reshaped by the rise of big data and artificial intelligence. Key findings include:

- The pandemic decline is part of a much longer-term trend. Between 2019 and 2022, scores in the data analysis, statistics, and probability section of the NAEP math exam fell by 10 points for eighth-graders and by four points for fourth-graders. Declining scores are part of a longer-term trend, with scores down 17 points for eighth-graders and down 10 points for fourth-graders over the last decade. That means today's eighth-graders have the data literacy of sixth-graders from a decade ago, and today's fourth-graders have the data literacy of third-graders from a decade ago.

- There are large racial gaps in scores. These gaps exist across all grade levels but are at times most dramatic in the middle and high school levels. For instance, fourth-grade Black students scored 28 points lower -- the equivalent of nearly three grade levels -- than their white peers in data analysis, statistics, and probability.

- Data-related instruction is in decline. Every state except Alabama reported a decline or stagnant trend in data-related instruction, with some states -- like Maryland and Iowa -- seeing double-digit drops. The national share of fourth-grade math teachers reporting "moderate" or "heavy" emphasis on data analysis dropped five percentage points between 2019 and 2022.
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Steep Declines In Data Science Skills Among Fourth- and Eighth-Graders Across America, Study Finds More

Steep Declines In Data Science Skills Among Fourth- and Eighth-Graders Across America, Study Finds

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  • Anecdotally, kids these days are pretty dumb when it comes to basic computer skills, never mind "data science skills". Working with word processors and simple spreadsheets is challenging for them. Forget about asking them to delve into the file system.

    Somewhere along the way, these kinds of skills went on the back burner as far as educational priorities are concerned. It makes no sense. I really cannot fathom why.

    • Why in the name of Christ (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:15PM (#63293953)
      Should an 8-year-old even know what a spreadsheet is much less be skilled in one?

      They're eight. They should be learning math, basic science, English and critical thinking skills.

      This is Just an industry that wants the focus of education not to be on the student but on creating useful cogs for their machines. The sort of people who can be used and discarded. Cheap labor.

      • Re:Why in the name of Christ (Score:5, Insightful)

        by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:28PM (#63293979)

        Should an 8-year-old even know what a spreadsheet is much less be skilled in one?

        That is not what this is about. From the report itself:

        It is important to note that NAEP measures partially assess components of data science and data literacy. We use both of these terms throughout the report, where data literacy refers to the basic skills and habits that allow us to read, work with, analyze and communicate with data effectively, and data science refers to the process and modern techniques of drawing insights from and exploring trends in data and using data to solve problems. This is an important distinction because data literacy skills and habits are foundational to a data science education

        There are other tidbits from the report which seem to imply why skills are declining including the use of technology. Not that it's being used, but that it's not being correctly used. This goes back to a previous story [slashdot.org] on here where kids (I'm old enough to use that phrase) don't grasp what a file system is or how directories work, let alone what a directory is. And these are college students. Files are dumped wherever and they have to search for them because they lack basic organizational skills.

        It's not difficult to see a correlation between the two issues.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Powercntrl ( 458442 )

          where data literacy refers to the basic skills and habits that allow us to read, work with, analyze and communicate with data effectively

          I thought Data died in Star Trek: Nemesis?

          and data science refers to the process and modern techniques of drawing insights from and exploring trends in data and using data to solve problems.

          Oh, that data. Here's a hint, researchers: if you have to redefine a term which already has a bona fide established meaning, you are the ones who are not communicating effectively and you probably should do a bit of introspection on your own educational shortcomings. Just sayin'.

          • And yet, Brent Spiner doesn't seem to have gotten the memo that he doesn't need to hang around the Picard set anymore.
        • if an 8 year old knows what a file system is? And given the advancements in search on a modern computer I'm not entirely convinced "knows what a file system is" should be the metric even if we're talking about high schoolers.

          But regardless, this isn't what we should be worried about. We should be worried about math, science (i.e. the scientific method and all that comes with it) and language and communication skills. The rest will follow.

          • Re:Again, why does it matter (Score:5, Insightful)

            by narcc ( 412956 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @02:29AM (#63294453) Journal

            Fourth-graders are typically 9-10. Kids that age are absolutely capable of using a file system. It doesn't matter how good search is, it is in no way a replacement for those basic skills.

            this isn't what we should be worried about. We should be worried about [...]

            Teaching basic computer skills won't take away from Math, science, or anything else. On the contrary, having those skills will make the rest of their schoolwork significantly easier, to say nothing of the organizational skills that they'll develop.

            Like it or not, computers are an essential part of daily life now. We absolutely should be teaching basic computer skills. Just think: science classes get a lot more interesting when you can expect students to be able to effectively use a spreadsheet. You get to combine math, science, language and communication, and computers all in one project.

            • As a nerd, I recall being interested in the differences between the MacOS and Windows file systems at 10 years old. But it's important not to project the same trajectory of development onto all children. I was also reading several grade levels ahead.

              I'd say 7th or 8th grade would be more appropriate to introduce this kind of thing. In 4th grade you're still learning how to type and plug the right things in the right slot. (Inserting 5" floppies and booting an Apple II when I was at that age.)

              At least it's n

        • Blame Google. Have you ever used Google Docs? You don't organize files, you search for them. Everything on the internet is search oriented, not a hierarchical. When your house is a mess, don't clean it up, index it!

          Yes it's rubbish, but if it's all you have known...

          • Hey, I have a stack-based, chronological ordering system.

            Ok, if enough crap is dumped onto it, it kinda evolves into a heap based system, but you get the idea.

      • This is Just an industry that wants the focus of education not to be on the student but on creating useful cogs for their machines.

        Basically. This [wikipedia.org] is one of the founders of Data Science 4 Everyone. Pretty much anytime someone says something is being done wrong with our children, they have some terrible hidden agenda.

        • Yes, the people who wrote the report have a huge agenda to push.

          Also, people love to be told how stupid their kids are, so journalists have a big incentive to promote and sensationalize any "kids these days ..." stories.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Indeed. Sounds exactly like that to me as well.

      • Re: Why in the name of Christ (Score:4, Insightful)

        by getuid() ( 1305889 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:03AM (#63294583)

        Came here to see this :-)

        WTF even is "data science" to an 8-grader anyway?

        I have a PhD in STEM and it's not even clear to me what data science in general is. (I mean, I know science, and it's based on data, but somehow I can't shake the feeling that's not what they mean with "data science." And even if it was, I was well past my mid-20s before I actually knew what "science" was, let alone be good at it.)

      • Should an 8-year-old even know what a spreadsheet is much less be skilled in one?

        Eighth graders are about 14 years old. 4th graders are about 10 years old.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by skam240 ( 789197 )

        Of course nothing in the summary or source material is talking about teaching 8 year olds how to use spreadsheets. What's actually being discussed is kids much older than that getting lower scores in data analysis then they used to on a standardized test.

        They should be learning math, basic science, English and critical thinking skills.

        And this would likely fall under critical thinking.

      • Should an 8-year-old even know what a spreadsheet is much less be skilled in one?

        The article mentions 4th (9/10 years old) and 8th graders (13/14 years old), but congratulations on you +5 mod despite (I'd generously assume) your mistake.

    • They are pre-occupied by the nonsense-machine. I see it in some of my coworkers as well. It's just manifested brain-rot.
      The solution is very simple: deny them personal phones until they reach a suitable age to not incur immediate brain damage -- likely 16+ by my guess.
      If you have some weird need to track every movement of your child, give them a 5G smartwatch instead -- the interface is shit without a paired phone, they won't waste their time on it. Also, encourage them to read books and not play games. Gam

    • Because it's no longer necessary to get what they want.

      Face it, "computer skills" was never a subject taught in school. Anyone here can point to their school giving them any relevant computer related skills? Hell, we knew more about these machines than our teachers!

      But we needed that computer skill to get our stuff done. How are you supposed to install your ARJ compressed games (you know, the ones that you "found" somewhere) if you don't know your way around a CLI? If you didn't know how to jumper your soun

    • Kids today don't need to learn computer skills. They need to learn to read and write, to do math, and they need to learn art and music.
      They have plenty of time to learn computer skills later, like high school.

  • Florida leads the way (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:11PM (#63293947)

    The guy who was so concerned what a private business did that he had the government give him near control of said business is the same guy who's now saying schools should do away with AP courses in schools [tampabay.com].

    Because who needs those woke courses such as math, or science or even English?

    • Let's be clear. DeSantis's beef is with the College Board specifically, not with AP classes in general. I got this from the article you linked to. The College Board isn't the only possible source for AP classes.

      And as much as I think that the term "woke" has come to mean "anything Republicans don't like," I'm pretty sure that term has never been applied to math, science, or English.

      DeSantis has pulled many stunts--he is a politician, after all--but let's at least attack him based on arguments that are based

      • And as much as I think that the term "woke" has come to mean "anything Republicans don't like," I'm pretty sure that term has never been applied to math, science, or English.

        Well, in 2022 DeSantis and his Republican colleagues banned 41% of proposed math textbooks because they contained “prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including [Critical Race Theory]” according to the Florida Department of Education. You can read about it here:

        https://www.newsweek.com/flori... [newsweek.com]
        https://www.heraldtribune.com/... [heraldtribune.com]

        • So, when a *math* textbook delves into discussions of race, I'd say that's no longer talking about math and has swerved into politics. Oops, that so-called math textbook is off-topic.

          • Read the articles. It's the Florida Department of Education that claims the textbooks contain these topics, but they didn't say where, or even which textbooks they banned.

            The Herald-Tribune article quotes tweets from Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith, D-Orlando:

            They haven’t shown us what’s inside the books that they claim is critical race theory indoctrination, and there’s a reason they won’t show us, because it’s not there [...] It’s all right-wing fantasy, and it’s the latest example of how the right-wing Moms for Liberty ideology is now in charge of setting public education policy in Florida.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Powercntrl ( 458442 )

            So, when a *math* textbook delves into discussions of race, I'd say that's no longer talking about math and has swerved into politics. Oops, that so-called math textbook is off-topic.

            That's exactly why DeSantis's crusades work so well. They sound plausible, and unless you work in education or have a kid in one of the affected grades (a 1 in 13 chance, assuming you have a school-age kid), it's a difficult thing to personally verify. Plus, Florida has a lot of empty-nesters and retired folks who will take the accusation at face value, because clearly something fucked up Gen Z, it may as well be "woke math books".

            A more boring answer is that older generations always seem to think there's

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 )

              Oh, it's not just a generational thing. Here's the kind of stuff DeSantis is talking about: https://equitablemath.org/wp-c... [equitablemath.org]

              See p. 7 for examples of what, according to these curriculums, is considered "racist." Things like there being a "right" answer, and tracking progress (grades).

      • Let's be clear. DeSantis's beef is with the College Board specifically, not with AP classes in general. I got this from the article you linked to. The College Board isn't the only possible source for AP classes.

        The College Board is the only source of AP classes if you want to call them AP classes, because it's a College Board trademark.

        https://privacy.collegeboard.o... [collegeboard.org]

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Potor ( 658520 )

        I'm pretty sure that term has never been applied to math, science, or English.

        Where I stopped reading. You cannot be serious, can you [equitablemath.org]??

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by quenda ( 644621 )

          Where I stopped reading. You cannot be serious, can you [equitablemath.org]??

          That is quite an eye-opener. It claims that setting exams in maths is not just racist, but white supremacy culture, I kid you not. I guess the author never had any Asian students in their class :-)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I had a read of that and it seems okay. Note the stated goals:

          - Teach rich, thoughtful, complex mathematics.
          - Teach rigorous mathematics, understanding that rigor is characterized as thorough, exhaustive, and interdisciplinary.

          Seems like the right thing to do. The rest of it is about just being aware that some people may have different life experiences than others, so you need to consider that when designing lessons. The goal is still very much to produce students who are good at maths.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Potor ( 658520 )

            I had a read of that and it seems okay. Note the stated goals:

            - Teach rich, thoughtful, complex mathematics. - Teach rigorous mathematics, understanding that rigor is characterized as thorough, exhaustive, and interdisciplinary.

            Seems like the right thing to do. The rest of it is about just being aware that some people may have different life experiences than others, so you need to consider that when designing lessons. The goal is still very much to produce students who are good at maths.

            So you read this then too? According to this 'math' text book, perfectionism and objectivity are white supremacist.

            As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

            • Perfectionism
            • Sense of Urgency
            • Defensiveness
            • Quantity Over Quality
            • Worship of the Written Word
            • Paternalism
            • Either/Or Thinking
            • Power Hoarding
            • Fear of Open Conflict
            • Individualism
            • Only One Right Way
            • Progress is Bigger, More
            • Objectivity
            • Right to Comfort

            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Right above the bit you quoted, in bold, it says:

              "It is important to read this article first to fully understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations."

              I'm guessing you didn't do that, even though they provide a clickable link to the source. If you had, you would have noted the definition they give for "perfectionism":

              - little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing;
              - appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway
              - more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate
              - or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them
              - mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are - mistakes
              - making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong
              - little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes
              - tendency to identify what is wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate what is right

              This is a common mistake. Words in academic settings tend to have specific and different meanings to ones in general conversation. The li

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 )

          The document you linked to isn't about math at all, but about so-called antiracism. It teaches this "antiracism" in a context of math. Some of the specific racist principles it calls out, from page 7:
          - Getting the right answer
          - Being able to do math by oneself (as opposed to through teamwork)
          - Tracking the progress of students (grades, I suppose)
          - Considering "mistakes" to be failure (we need to learn how to handle failure, not hide from it)
          - Teaching math "procedures"

          These, according to your article, are r

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Entrope ( 68843 )

      Ah, the Tampa Bay Times, known for pushing the bogus claims of serial criminal, failed politician and admitted felon [pnj.com] Rebekah Jones. Notice how selectively that article quoted DeSantis and how the text of the article doesn't say anything like the headline? Did you know that the entire kerfuffle was only about one new pilot class, and the AP program saw merit [npr.org] in the criticisms from DeSantis and others?

      Current scores: American Students 1, Ron DeSantis 1, grievance studies 0

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Specter ( 11099 )

      Although that's not what he said, the idea is absolutely right. Except for a very very small minority of students AP should NOT be offered in HS and definitely not until jr. or sr. year.

      I've watched this play out in our own school district. Kids are being told to pick their college majors while in middle school (oh and you can only select from STEM or you're a failure) and they're being forced into AP courses (which are for-real college level content) in freshman year and being told that if they don't the

  • ChatGPT will solve this problem (Score:5, Funny)

    by thesjaakspoiler ( 4782965 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:35PM (#63293993)

    it will also help out every one communicating, bring world peace and improve Bing search results.
    Although the experts are not sure about the latter.

  • Youtuber (Score:5, Informative)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:46PM (#63294023)

    Be good at entertaining. The job of the future is tiktokker and YouTuber. Did you know there are over a 50,000 people who make at least six figures from making a fool of themselves online? All you need to do is get one million subscribers. Heck even 100,000 subscribers is a viable side hustle that could grow to one million after a few years. Each one million views in a video is worth at least ten thousand dollars.

    • Be good at entertaining.

      I'm guessing you're being a bit disingenuous about this, because most people know the entertainment industry (and that includes YouTube) is nearly impossible to break into (in a profitable manner) unless you're well-connected, wealthy, or extremely lucky. If anything, YouTube has proven that talent by itself is not a particularly rare thing. What is rare is being able to make a decent living from it.

      As always, thanks for reading my post. Be sure to smash that like button and subscribe so you don't miss a

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I know you are joking, but if you want to get kids interested in maths that's not a bad way to pitch it. Not too dissimilar to using NASA stuff to get kids interested in STEM, other than that a lot of people consider entertaining people to be a lowly, even reprehensible, career.

  • I noticed NAEP isnâ(TM)t scoring for such competencies. I doubt they were accidentally omitted. This kind of stuff is nice to have, but isnâ(TM)t necessarily a core competency. I mean, you wonâ(TM)t likely find consensus that it is anywhere near as important compared to opinions about language, math, competencies, etc. You know what my hobby was as a young kid? Electronics⦠specifically, tinkering with the project kits they had. I tinkered all day, every day. It wasnâ(TM)t any

    • Another protip:

      Break up that wall of text into a few paragraphs. I can't speak for everyone, but I know one thing, when I get assaulted by a wall of text like that, I don't read it. More often than not, it's just unstructured, unfocussed rambling, someone droning on and on without saying anything, and if you don't want to give that impression, maybe cut it up into 4-5 line chunks that encompass an idea, a thought or a subject.

  • Also among 29 year olds (Score:4, Interesting)

    by edi_guy ( 2225738 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:03PM (#63294051)

    "Data Science" has lost all meaning to me as a job category. It's been as diluted as "Data Engineer", "Product Manager", "Network Engineer" others will come to mind. The pattern is well worn, and known. Certain firms and people find success in what was a previously neglected category. Salaries for these roles rise, news of especially exorbitant salaries hits the wire. Recruiters and potential hires quickly re-frame and 'retrain'. A small number with genuine interest and aptitude make meaningful difference, the remainder occupy positions spinning wheels until either relieved of duties, hop to new unwitting firm, get promoted to people manager.

    • I am a Data Architect , there is a very different skill set between Data Engineer and Data Scientist not sure why you mention the other two roles. A Data Engineer is working with ingestion pipelines (batch or stream) and Data Transformation (PySpark or SQL) . Data Scientist take the curated date from the DE and designs models and defines the training and then curates the models as they mature in production. This typically follows am MLOps flow.

  • It will not get better any time soon (Score:5, Interesting)

    by quenda ( 644621 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:04PM (#63294055)

    US average IQ is predicted to continue declining.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]

    Part of the reason is genetic (the Idiocracy effect), but also the Flynn Effect seems to be reversing in developed countries, for reasons unknown.
    Research in Norway (which has good data from conscripts) shows that IQ scores have been falling for decades, even in the same families. A similar trend is likely to be happening in the US.

    https://www.thesciencebreaker.... [thesciencebreaker.org]

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sconeu ( 64226 )

      How can that be? By definition, average IQ is 100.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Sounds like a problem with the tests. Just like the Flynn Effect actually is.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quenda ( 644621 )

        Sounds like a problem with the tests. Just like the Flynn Effect actually is.

        What problem? That is a somewhat empty comment. Do you have an actual argument to present, or just unsubstantiated assertions?
        Parent has alluded to the most obvious question: Does the Flynn effect represent an underlying change in intelligence, or were people just gaining skills that led to higher scores without real-world difference?
        We know that higher scores at the same time do correlate to all sorts of meaningful differences, but it is harder to compare now to decades ago.

    • IQ is something that can be raised by training. Yes, really. Since IQ is basically what an IQ test tests, and IQ tests test the ability to logically deduce, having more information to draw from and having that information connected is relevant.

      This isn't what our schools teach, though. What our schools teach to is a testing system that is outdated and obsolete. We are still teaching to regurgitate. The winning strategy for our students is to soak up any and all bullshit in some textbook, barf it onto the te

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quenda ( 644621 )

        IQ is something that can be raised by training. Yes, really.

        Not really. Technically yes, IQ is a test score, and those can be increased a bit by training. That is a real problem with high stakes aptitude tests such as for college entry. But good tests minimise that, and good studies use data from people who have not been coached for the test, such as the Norwegian conscripts.
        What we are really talking about is the thing the IQ tried to measure, the "g factor". This seems to be dropping.

        Also note that schooling does not have any long-term impact on IQ scores. Int

        • I know from personal research that it is quite possible to gain quite a few points on an IQ score if you practice those tests. I do them as a leisure activity because, well, it's fun to brag about your insanely high IQ, but it's just ridiculous what results you can get if you keep taking them. And no, I don't mean the crap you can get online, I mean the "serious" ones you take with a shrink at your disposal. It's probably my most expensive hobby, and yes, it can get you to ridiculous results. Personal best

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's nothing to do with genetics. It's just that schools stopped teaching the stuff on IQ tests and replaced it with more relevant and useful skills.

      IQ tests are based on a narrow definition of intelligence that is mostly about pattern recognition and certain maths skills. They don't include things being given a single bit of evidence about declining IQ scores and then being asked to explain it, to see if they can think beyond the obvious "everyone must be getting dumber" answer.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quenda ( 644621 )

        It's just that schools stopped teaching the stuff on IQ tests

        What? nah, that's not how it works. The tests are to measure aptitude, not knowledge or acquired skill. You don't teach it.

        IQ tests are based on a narrow definition of intelligence that is mostly about pattern recognition and certain maths skills.

        Sorry, but you don't seem to understand how they work at all. I'm guessing you don't like them, so chose not to ever read anything on the subject that was not already starting from your conclusion.

        A scientific test is validated by its predictive value not by any theory about how the thing works. Not any any definition of what intelligence is. If pattern recognition is in a test, it

  • Perhaps partly because of smartphones? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:32PM (#63294109)

    Back when desktops and laptops were the only ways of accessing the Web, I think some basic data literacy skills were acquired via browsing with a keyboard and mouse, doing the occasional file download and then looking for it with a file explorer, and having enough screen real estate to present a variety of visually interesting things to explore.

    Smartphones are a much more curated and prescribed experience; they're probably abstracted from a computer GUI in the same way, and to the same extent, that a computer GUI is abstracted from the command line. But a computer with a GUI is a lot closer to the 'bones' of computing, and the command line is still available. Neither of these is true of a smartphone.

    With a computer, anybody with a little curiosity can at least peek behind the curtain, whereas with a phone you have to already know what you're doing AND jump through hoops to get anything like backstage access. So it's no wonder kids have no data literacy - phones are just a magic black-box portal to access a digital world that does everything it can to hide the nuts, bolts, and seams.

  • Risibly inept paper (Score:3)

    by dsgrntlxmply ( 610492 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:33PM (#63294111)
    Very colorfully decorated with pictures, but they either cannot subtract accurately, or have a university-level "data science" failure in rounding. A number of the grade/year comparisons give incorrect deltas. The author needs a numerate editor.

    • I like the comparison of 'Not Asked' in 8th Grade and '90% agreed that they take math as a requirement' in 12th grade as indicating a decline.

  • Data Science (Score:3)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:50PM (#63294145)

    I suspect the term Data Science has a different meaning on a site like slashdot.

    I mean my kid just got into honors Math, but she doesn't know python, pandas, and she doesn't use Jupyter notebook, she doesn't know a txt from a csv from an xlsx. My kid gets straight A's and is in honors Math, she has (somehow) 103% of possible points in Science - and my kid doesn't do Data Science.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luthair ( 847766 )
      I was actually wondering what the heck they're referencing as the article doesn't say. Its also worth noting that the group publishing this is called Data Science 4 Everyone which may have an interest in tilting the results in a direction that justifies their existence.

      • https://www.datascience4everyo... [datascience4everyone.org]

        We analyzed student performance on the NAEP
        mathematics assessment in fourth and eighth grade.
        NAEP math scores range from 0-500 for grades four and
        eight. The math exam assesses students in five broad
        areas of mathematical content, including the content
        area of Data Analysis, Statistics, and Probability. This
        content area measures students’ understanding of data
        representation, characteristics of data sets, experiments
        and samples, and probability.

  • It would be ironic; but not especially surprising, if part of the blame falls on attempts to chase one of the prior tech-flavored educational fads. A lot of the tech-flavored stuff that's easiest to introduce and easiest to ram students through at acceptable pass rates is actually pretty dire (both in absolute terms and as preparation for dealing with either technology or information or both) compared to what it has a habit of displacing.

    Say, not at all hypothetically, you decide that the shiny new compu

  • Since when are you supposed to have data-science skills in grades 4 to 8?

  • Fifth graders needed data science skills. Let kids be kids

  • Something something deep state, something something libs

  • it's gods will !
  • Who would have thought....
  • Let's not pretend that anything to do with computers was better taught in the past. I covered word processing superficially and some primitive spreadsheet software in school when I was young. No programming in class. As most of us found in that period, the main driver for being good at tech was being able to play games on clunky machines fundamentally designed for business use! Everyone knew their way around a file system because Windows probably screwed up something at least weekly and you were forever del

  • Those of us actually building the new stuff make them so good that kids don't have to know a damn thing about it in order to use it. Parents can be convinced their kid is "good with computers" because that usability is so good their mediocre-at-best, future meaningless cog of a progeny seem talented.

  • Since when do 4th and 8th graders learn "data science"? Hell, when I was in 4th grade, learning any kind of science was met with scorn and ridicule by most of the kids in my class. This is one reason I wanted to go to a private school. By 8th grade, I was learning actual science in a dedicated class with a real lab and math class was geometry.

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

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