Record Rise in China's Sea Levels Threatens Coastal Cities Like Shanghai (cnn.com) 76
Sea levels on China's coastline have hit their highest on record for the second year in a row, rising more quickly than the global average and posing a serious threat to coastal cities such as the financial hub of Shanghai. From a report: In 2022, China's coastal sea levels were 94 millimeters (3.7 inch) higher than "normal," defined as the average over the 1993-2011 period, making it the highest since records began in 1980, an official at the Ministry of Natural Resources said Wednesday at a news conference. The swell was 10 mm higher than in 2021, when the previous record was reached. The temperature of China's coastal waters has increased significantly due to global warming, and the rise in sea levels has accelerated, said Wang Hua, head of the marine forecasting and monitoring department at the ministry.
China's sea levels have increased by an average of 3.5 mm per year since 1980, and an average of 4.0 mm per year since 1993 -- higher than the global rate over the same periods, Wang said. The global mean sea level has risen 3.4 mm a year over the past three decades, according to NASA. "In the last 11 years, from 2012 to 2022, China's coastal sea levels were the highest since observations were first recorded," Wang said at the news conference, which released the latest annual report on China's sea levels.
China's sea levels have increased by an average of 3.5 mm per year since 1980, and an average of 4.0 mm per year since 1993 -- higher than the global rate over the same periods, Wang said. The global mean sea level has risen 3.4 mm a year over the past three decades, according to NASA. "In the last 11 years, from 2012 to 2022, China's coastal sea levels were the highest since observations were first recorded," Wang said at the news conference, which released the latest annual report on China's sea levels.
Re:Ohh scary! They are "threatened". Oh noes! (Score:5, Insightful)
Those that do not understand what they are talking about will forever voice stupid opinions...
Re:Ohh scary! They are "threatened". Oh noes! (Score:5, Informative)
Please educate us: how is the sea level at Shanghai higher than everywhere else?
The ocean is not a static body of homogenous fluid, but rather a dynamic system of intermixing (but not perfectly mixed) different fluids. Both different densities (e.g. less saline or warmer water in some regions) and changing currents can lead to differences in sea level and differences in sea level rise.
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Thanks for answering that. I get really tired of know-it-alls that do not even know relatively basic facts like this one.
Re:Ohh scary! They are "threatened". Oh noes! (Score:5, Informative)
Mean *local* sea level does in fact vary from place to place due to many factors, starting with the fact that the Earth is not a geometrically perfect sphere. On top of that you have local gravity differences due to variations in the thickness of the Earth's crust, as well as large scale ocean circulation patterns and differences in ocean water density -- both from temperature and salinity.
So yes, local mean sea level in Shanghai *can* be higher than the global mean sea level, which in turn can be higher than mean sea levels in other places. On top of that *measured* sea level *change* can vary due to the vertical movement of land moving the datum of the local coordinate system -- subsidence and post-glacial isostatic rebound.
Now as to the significance of 94mm or sea level rise, it's probably not very significant on an *average* day. The problem is flood days. People plan their building projects around the frequency of tail events. A once in 20 year flood may not be economically significant, but if it happens every other year that's a big deal. There's no straightforward relationship between a given level of sea level rise and vulnerability. 100mm of local sea level rise on a hilly, non-developed coast isn't going to be perceptible. But in Shanghai, a dense megacity built on pancake flat land, it could be.
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Yep. And who says it is still only 100mm on that flood day. Depends on a lot of factors. For example, if strong wind drives the water in, a 100mm increase can be an actual 1m increase when it reaches land.
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Besides what the sibling post said, there's also wind and gravity. Wind is obvious, if it blows to the east across the Pacific, it will move some water towards China and away from western N. America. I was somewhat surprised about gravity, but mountains and glaciers (as they change relatively quick, they're important) actually attract water through gravity. If Greenland's glaciers melt, the ocean will drop there. Forget the numbers but IIRC it was over a foot.
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Please educate us: how is the sea level at Shanghai higher than everywhere else?
Sea levels can rise locally because of local volcanic and tectonic action, and from other causes that may or may not be related to human activity. We've seen islands pop up out of the sea from one earthquake and then that island disappear into the sea later from another earthquake. Also impacting local sea levels is weathering, the winds could blow in sand or the rains wash that sand out to the sea. I believe we have records of this happening on time scales that are sufficient to show in recorded history
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Huh. I'd have thought someone like you would have considered 3.7 inches to be absolutely huge...
His wife certainly would.
Your mom would love 3.5 inches. (Score:1)
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Your mother and sisters certainly did.
Yeah. You sort of need to think about that one a bit more.
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You sort of need to think about that one a bit more.
No, I don't. That's why I keep the photos.
matches predictions [Re:Ohh scary! They are "t...] (Score:5, Informative)
In 2022, China's coastal sea levels were 94 millimeters (3.7 inch) higher than "normal,"
Noooo! 3.7 inches! Whatever will we do? Run for your lives?
4.0 mm per year since 1993. That's right in the error band of the predictions published in the IPCC first assessment report (1995), which said 3 to 10 cm of sea level rise per decade in the 21st century for the "business as usual" scenario
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That's right in the error band of the predictions
At least they got their prediction close to right. So, that's a positive start. Climate Chicken Little's aren't doing so great with their predictions of doom, but hey, I'm sure it's different this time.
Re:matches predictions [Re:Ohh scary! They are...] (Score:2)
That's right in the error band of the predictions
At least they got their prediction close to right. So, that's a positive start. Climate Chicken Little's aren't doing so great with their predictions of doom, but hey, I'm sure it's different this time.
In general, you can tell actual science from media scare-mongering by the fact that the actual science has error bars, while the "Chicken Little" predictions don't.
Re:Ohh scary! They are "threatened". Oh noes! (Score:4, Informative)
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What about the 0.01% (number pulled out of my ass, likely a bit higher) that is highly populated. Here, we're already seeing expensive damage from sea level rise, and it hasn't even hit the housing yet, and there's enough housing that it could be bad.
It's amazing the damage a king tide combined with storm can do to a granite wall, those waves are relentless. That granite sea wall stood for 80 years with no problems, now, this century, keeps getting damaged.
Sound the alarm (Score:3, Funny)
"A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will wipe out all of humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels over the next five years." - Greta Thunberg 2018
https://web.archive.org/web/20... [archive.org]
Re: Sound the alarm (Score:1)
She was right. Weâ(TM)re all dead now.
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Trump said that global warming is a Chinese hoax. Since this data is coming out of China it's obviously a hoax as well. /s
Re:Sound the alarm (Score:4, Insightful)
Ahhh yes the ol' discredit a movement because one person said something that turned out to be wrong and another tweeted it.
Look if we just got rid of every person who said something wrong or stupid in their life we wouldn't have ... well... you.
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Ahhh yes the ol' discredit a movement because one person said something that turned out to be wrong
Which bit of it is wrong? We're still well on the path to destruction despite all the hot air at endless COP summits.
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If it can't be stopped now then we should stop wasting effort trying to stop it and put effort into living better with it.
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But don't dare consider nuclear fission energy as a means to lower CO2 emissions to stop global warming because the safest energy source humanity has ever created is a greater threat to humanity than global warming.
I'll "follow the science" on global warming when these morons screaming about global warming "follow the science" on the most effective solutions for global warming. Placing nuclear fission energy as a greater threat to humanity than global warming is not going to gain converts. This claim of n
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Ah yes. The old experts say. You guys are ridiculous. No one is believing your nonsense anymore. Covid exposed you people for what you are.
You're dismissing the existence of tides because an "expert" pointed them out? Fuck's sake. Grow up.
Re: can doomers find something other than (Score:2)
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Sure, we'll believe expert over our own eyes. Experts also decided that cow farts are bad for the environment, I should dismiss the fact that cows probably lived before us for thousands of years and the environment is doing fine. Have fun staying brainwashed and disbelieving your own senses
You have very little grasp of what's going on. Apparently you think that there were billions of cows roaming around before the days of domestication. What do you think they were eating? How do you even think agriculture works? Do you think?
And I live by the sea - I do believe my own eyes; the sea is rising.
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Jesus. Someone clicked the "attention all idiots" button on this story.
Go away.
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it won't affect the coming invasion of Taiwan. The size of Xi Jiinping's noodle in on the line here.
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Sure, you can't see the difference in sea level from that picture. It's "only" about 8 inches, or 20cm. That doesn't mean it isn't a serious source of concern.
I don't know the answer, but I wonder what the distribution of sea level rise is over location and time. 4mm/year is just an average over both location and time. Maybe more a more insightful metric might be the max rise or the probability of a cumulative rise over a given rise threshold at some given time in the future.
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It's hard as there are lots of variables, wind, ocean currents for example, they have quite an affect on ocean height and are likely to change.
Sea level rise vs Vermin explosion (Score:5, Insightful)
But, weeds, vermin, etc are biological phenomena, given to exponential growth rates and can flip things around suddenly
You see forsythia blooming in April first week in your area? It used to bloom in late April usually, does it mean anything? That crocus is blooming in Jan?
So much of the weeds, vermin like stink bugs get killed by hard frost over the winter and they start from very small seeds/nits/eggs in spring. Given their exponential growth rate, the total amount they reach at the end of the season can be significantly larger even if their growing season gets just a few weeks of extension.
If this change happens slowly, over several centuries, other plants and animals will have the time to adapt and develop survival strategies. Do it rapidly, the useful plants and animals and bugs get overwhelmed.
Dont talk sea level rise to an Iowa farmer, talk about increased cost/usage of pesticides, weed killers, ... That will get their attention.
Re:Sea level rise vs Vermin explosion (Score:4, Insightful)
Not necessarily true. Timing is critical in species breeding patterns. Take for instance the western pine beetle. The lack of hard freezes and warmer temps has caused them to survive winters in increased numbers and to hatch upwards of 2 weeks earlier than normal.
Birds that prey on them for their hatchlings don't lay their eggs earlier so they fail to prey on them and, because there's less larva around to eat, more of their chicks starve. So you end up with a situation where more prey at the wrong time results in fewer predators not more.
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Ticks. Think ticks. They love the warm weather and carry several diseases. You like those diseases, don't you.
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Would it surprise you to learn that water expands when heated ?
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We just count the days highways around Miami get flooded over time. Definite increase there.
Keep burning that coal china (Score:2)
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Yes because conveniently all climate effects are local.
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I live by the sea. It is rising. I don't need CNN to tell me it is or a complete Cnut like yourself to tell me it isn't.
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I live by the sea. It is rising. I don't need CNN to tell me it is or a complete Cnut like yourself to tell me it isn't.
We have records of sea levels going back hundreds of years showing sea level rise. Seems to me that burning fossil fuels at greater and greater rates since the Industrial Revolution may not be the cause. It would be more convincing that fossil fuels are the cause if we didn't have people putting nuclear fission power as a greater threat to humanity than global warming. Which is the greater threat? Nuclear power? Global warming? Or energy scarcity? It seems to me that energy scarcity would be a proble
rise or fall? (Score:1)
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You almost have it on the bit about land falling but not for that reason.
You see, the earth is a giant hollow spheroid with an inner sun which is inhabited by dinosaurs, nazis and cave men.
The nazis, having enslaved the cavemen, have them use dinosaurs to dig out trenches and fortifications for the 4th reich's upcoming war to take over the world and it is those excavations which have caused the surface lands to sink a bit which looks like sea level rise to us.
Got it?
Can we get more nuclear fission energy now? (Score:2)
My test on if global warming, and the sea level rise that comes from it, should be considered a real threat is how it ranks against nuclear fission energy. If nuclear fission energy is still considered the greater threat then I believe there is nothing to worry about. That is because nuclear fission energy is nothing to worry about. Nuclear fission energy is as safe or safer than solar or wind power, while producing as little or less CO2. Anyone can search the internet for terms like "deaths per terawat
But (Score:2)
The problem with sea level rise is that frequently sea level "rise" is really just primarily subsidence of the land. That is for example the case for the SF Bay Area.
Does each country have it's own sea-level? (Score:2)
Kind of thought sea-level was a global thing b/c water. Thankfully only China's sea-level is rising and the rest of the world is safe?