Utah's Record Snowfall 'Buys Us Time' for Drying Great Salt Lake (cnn.com) 56
Utah's Great Salt Lake had shrunk by two thirds its original size, the New York Times reported last June. And "It was only three months ago that nearly three dozen scientists and conservationists sounded the alarm that the Great Salt Lake in Utah faces 'unprecedented danger'," CNN reports. "Unless the state's lawmakers fast-tracked 'emergency measures' to dramatically increase the lake's inflow by 2024, it would likely disappear in the next five years."
Now, after an incredible winter full of rain and snow, there is a glimmer of hope on North America's largest terminal lake, where water levels had fallen to a record-low last fall amid a historic, climate change-fueled drought across the West. As of Thursday, the snowpack in the Great Salt Lake basin was more than double the average for this time of year. All of this winter's rain and snow that fell directly into the Great Salt Lake increased the water level there by three feet...
In reality, the precipitation only made up for what was lost to last year's drought and evaporation... To reverse the decline, the Great Salt Lake needs an additional 1 million acre-feet of water — roughly 326 billion gallons — per year, according to the January assessment. Bonnie Baxter, the director of the Great Salt Lake Institute at Westminster College and one of the authors of the January report, said the state would "need another five years like this in order to get the system healthy again."
"If I do the math, we got about three feet of direct precipitation that fell into the lake this year, that is fantastic," Baxter told CNN. "But the last two years, we also lost 2.8 feet in the summer, and we expect to lose that three feet in the desiccating summer. So now, we're pretty much even, and that's not a good place to be."
Baxter says the rainfall "buys us some time" to work on long-term issues like water rights and metering the water used in agriculture — maybe a year or two — but "We're not going to be bailed out by excess snow."
There's hope melting snow could add more water, but Baxter warns that it might not. "If it melts really quickly, which is probably going to happen because we have these late snows and now we're right up against warm temperatures, then you get the water just rushing over the land and not taking time to charge the aquifers and just evaporating off the surface."
In reality, the precipitation only made up for what was lost to last year's drought and evaporation... To reverse the decline, the Great Salt Lake needs an additional 1 million acre-feet of water — roughly 326 billion gallons — per year, according to the January assessment. Bonnie Baxter, the director of the Great Salt Lake Institute at Westminster College and one of the authors of the January report, said the state would "need another five years like this in order to get the system healthy again."
"If I do the math, we got about three feet of direct precipitation that fell into the lake this year, that is fantastic," Baxter told CNN. "But the last two years, we also lost 2.8 feet in the summer, and we expect to lose that three feet in the desiccating summer. So now, we're pretty much even, and that's not a good place to be."
Baxter says the rainfall "buys us some time" to work on long-term issues like water rights and metering the water used in agriculture — maybe a year or two — but "We're not going to be bailed out by excess snow."
There's hope melting snow could add more water, but Baxter warns that it might not. "If it melts really quickly, which is probably going to happen because we have these late snows and now we're right up against warm temperatures, then you get the water just rushing over the land and not taking time to charge the aquifers and just evaporating off the surface."
"would likely disappear in the next five years" (Score:4, Funny)
Re:"would likely disappear in the next five years" (Score:5, Informative)
Given that this is generally attributed less to climate change than to the rapid growth of Salt Lake City and the lack of a rational pricing structure or limits around water usage, that example is less relevant.
I'm not even really sure where your apparent skepticism comes from. Aerial photos of the lake over the past 40 years paint a pretty clear picture and trendline that doesn't really leave much room for debate. I suppose you could argue that humans will "find a way". However, part of finding a way through is general awareness of the consequences of continuing business as usual.
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All those Mormons are republicans aren't they? They'll be telling each other the market will solve this for them. After all, what are they going to do? Vote for a democrat?
What do religion and political affiliation have to do with anything? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes a point of not endorsing any candidate or party, but encourages members to do their own research and vote for who they think would be best for the job. General Authorities have come out and explicitly said that it is possible to vote for a Democrat and maintain good standing within the Church.
Next point is that Salt Lake County has a large Democrat faction. In the 2020 Presidential Elec
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Found the Mormon here. Part of a group that did a huge campaign on "I'm a Mormon" only to perform a 180 on it when management changed. Only Mormon's pretend its offensive and insist on the full name of the church in every instance.
Funny how the amount who voted Republican in Salt Lake County tracked with the amount that are very active, or somewhat active (38% + 4%).
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Found the Mormon here.
Yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.
Part of a group that did a huge campaign on "I'm a Mormon" only to perform a 180 on it when management changed. Only Mormon's pretend its offensive and insist on the full name of the church in every instance.
That spin is a bit misleading. People outside the Church started calling us "Mormons" or "Mormonites" in the 1830s; it was a nickname given us in derision. With time the Church's PR department decided there was no way to escape the nickname, so we should take ownership and define it the way we want. There was even a talk in General Conference that we should make "Mormon" mean "more good". Since people are more familiar with the term "Mormon" than the officia
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General Authorities have come out and explicitly said that it is possible to vote for a Democrat and maintain good standing within the Church.
One sentence that entirely proves my point. And you posted that unironically. fucking hilarious.
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Jesus Christ, what a weird cult that whole set up is.
General Authorities have come out and explicitly said that it is possible to vote for a Democrat and maintain good standing within the Church.
One sentence that entirely proves my point. And you posted that unironically. fucking hilarious.
There are 17 million members of the Church world-wide. There is folklore and other unofficial statements and teachings which float around. Many members of the Church believed that the Democratic Party's stance on elective abortion, same sex marriage, and recreational drug use was enough to avoid affiliation with them. The Church needed to remind its membership that good can be found in both the Republican and Democratic parties. One member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles made the news when his family
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I suppose if you live in a cult it doesn't really feel like a cult. Much the same way that a fish doesn't notice the ocean.
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Those good Christians love Trump. Despite what he is.
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It will solve the problem, by making water so prohibitively expensive that the city basically becomes economically impossible for most people to live in. There's the market-based solution!
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Re: "would likely disappear in the next five years (Score:2, Informative)
This. I would respect the climate alarmists more,if they wouldn't jump on literally everything as proof of catastrophe.
Like the Colorado River, like the Rio Grande, like practically every other water problem in the Southwest: this is due to overuse and antiquated water rights.
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This. I would respect the climate alarmists more,if they wouldn't jump on literally everything as proof of catastrophe.
Like the Colorado River, like the Rio Grande, like practically every other water problem in the Southwest: this is due to overuse and antiquated water rights.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints used to own a ranch, and with that came water rights. When the ranch was sold, the Church somehow maintained the water rights. On 15 March 2023 the Church made a permanent donation of 20,000 acre-feet [churchofjesuschrist.org] per year. The Church is also taking into account water usage in the plans of the Temple Square renovations in Salt Lake City and landscaping for new temples across the globe.
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Funny how we never hear about how population went from 3.9 Billion in 1973 to 7.79 by 2020 https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info] . So we've basically doubled our population in 50 years but surely that doesn't have ANY affect on global warming or resources availability. Nope, none what so ever. We should totally continue on as normal.
We deserve what we get with this perpetual growth nonsense.
It's not the city, it's agriculture.... (Score:4, Interesting)
https://www.sltrib.com/news/en... [sltrib.com].
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Given that this is generally attributed less to climate change than to the rapid growth of Salt Lake City and the lack of a rational pricing structure or limits around water usage, that example is less relevant.
I'm not even really sure where your apparent skepticism comes from. Aerial photos of the lake over the past 40 years paint a pretty clear picture and trendline that doesn't really leave much room for debate. I suppose you could argue that humans will "find a way". However, part of finding a way through is general awareness of the consequences of continuing business as usual.
The problem isn't local to just Salt Lake City or even Utah. Water which would feed the Great Salt Lake flows down the Colorado River across multiple states and into Mexico. Water rights prohibit Utah from keeping more water. For what it's worth, Utah County (especially Lehi, Saratoga Springs, and Eagle Mountain) is growing faster than Salt Lake City. Growth needs to be controlled.
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Aside from the wrongheaded notion that the Earth is static, I remember back in the 70s that Great Salt Lake had crept up over some shoreline businesses. Now it's shrinking, but will probably grow back. These shallow no-outlet lakes do that. Shrink and shrink down to nothing, then grow back, rinse and repeat. Over the 20th century Devils Lake ND shrank down to a damp spot, then around 2000 abruptly grew back to larger than its known historical max and drowned a whole town. Flatland lakes in Australia are not
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These shallow no-outlet lakes do that. Shrink and shrink down to nothing, then grow back, rinse and repeat.
Ultimately there's a different point to raising the alarm here, though. Static, dynamic, etc. I don't really care. Let's assume it's entirely natural for the Great Salt Lake to dry up on long time scales. The consequences would still be pretty bad from an air pollution and health perspective for the very *un*natural city on its shores given the waste heavy metals on the lakebed.
Worth saying again, it literally doesn't matter if the lake is currently drying up because of climate change, water usage, regular
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The vast majority of GSLake dried up already, thousands of years ago, and is presently a ginormous salt flat. I think it's a little late to be worrying about what blows off the dry lakebed.
Same with the prehistoric Lake Winnemucca. (Which also comes and goes. I've been across that area when the only dry land as far as the eye could see were the highway embankment and the surrounding hills.)
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> humans will "find a way"
I'm turning reptile and growing gills. You better hurry up also before evangelicals ban the practice.
Re:"would likely disappear in the next five years" (Score:5, Informative)
NY Post is another Rupert Murdoch lie machine. I wouldn't trust one of his "media" outlets further than I could spit a two-headed rat.
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They're about half the size compared to when I saw them as a child. On geological time scales it's nearly overnight. But yeah, scientists sure do look silly predicting something would be gone by 2020 only to have it persist to 2035. Egg on their face I bet.
Salt lake goes up and down - news at 11 (Score:2)
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I remeber when Utah was worried that I80 would be undermined/washed away.
the problem is real, the cause is not (Score:3, Informative)
And we wonder why there it's so little faith in journalism today?
It's because the reporting is lying, constantly.
"...a climate change-fueled megadrought ..."?
The drying up of the GSL has *everything* to do with population and overuse and nothing to do with climate change. Nothing.
Reporting it with such framing is a deliberate lie.
Re:the problem is real, the cause is not (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you moron.
This has nothing to do with conspiracies.
As was covered almost a year ago: https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Salt Lake City's urban water infrastructure was built mainly in the 1950s and the metro area is SIX TIMES the population it was then.
From the WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
"...Scientists and officials have long recognized that water in the Great Salt Lake watershed is overallocated â" more water has been guaranteed to people and businesses than falls as rain and snow each year...."
Is there a drought? Absolutely yes (Depending on how you define drought, of course)
What it isn't? Abnormal. This is absolutely an expected climate cycle for the Western US.
https://www.drought.gov/what-i... [drought.gov]
"Tree ring archives indicate that agricultural droughts such as those that happened in the United States during the 1930s Dust Bowl era have occurred occasionally over the last 2,000 years, and climate model simulations suggest that droughts that may last several years to even decades occur naturally in the southwestern U.S."
Look at the last century or so: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.10... [pnas.org]
1980-1990, 1995-2000 were EXCEPTIONALLY WET. What we have today is very much more the average wetness over time. Look further down the report and you'll see today is utterly average over the last 1200 years.
What sort of an idiot thinks and plans that 'since the last 30 years have been wet, I guess it should always be that way'?
Did you notice it's a DESERT?
Re:the problem is real, the cause is not (Score:4, Informative)
Most (70%) of the water that is diverted from the Great Salt Lake goes to irrigate forage crops to raise cattle.
People only use 15%.
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People don't eat cattle? weird. Why raise them at all then, a fun hobby I guess?
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It's bloody stupid and wouldn't happen without vast amounts of taxpayer money propping up otherwise unprofitable cattle farmers. They're doing incredible damage to a fragile ecosystem but they're politically powerful so nothing is going to change.
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The fact is the lake does have watershed, rivers and other drainage. And that water that could sustain the lake is used by the population, 85% for agriculture.
If the population did not have swimming pools or water their lawns that would free up a few percent of the water. The average person does use a significant of the lakes water
So yes, if we ship it down ag
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Nobody's saying anything about a conspiracy here. But it's nice of you to try to build a strawman - so much easier to argue against, amirite?
And no "liberals" are pumping water to do anything.
A city and its infrastructure are consuming more than they should.
The explosion of agriculture and irrigation OF A DESERT is consuming *vastly* more than they should.
In both cases this is a case of gross mismanagement.
But that's not as 'sexy' nor 'doom-panic-inducing' as misrepresenting same as "OMG TEH CLIMATE!!" is
More... (Score:1)
https://web.archive.org/web/20... [archive.org]
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We conclude that evaporation is the culprit. So evaporation must have increased over the years. Now why could that be?
The "Mormon Miracle" ran on water (Score:2, Interesting)
The Mormons would be a footnote in history if they hadn't settled where they did. Everything around there is dry, but the Wasatch Front is one of the largest ranges in the "basin and range" geography that starts in California and stretches throughout the West. There are smaller versions of this in Nevada, often part of the disseminated Toyabe National Forest (there's kind of a joke about going down to your local Toyabe National Forest outlet, or finding one on the Moon). Anyway, the "Mormon Miracle" ran
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The heavy traffic and lack of water are more to do with bag zoning and water mismanagement than too many people. North American (no escape for you Canada!) Zoning and traffic rules almost couldn't be better designed for high congestion. And sure it's dry, but it supports 1/10 th of the population of London on 70% of the rainfall. I know this is a gross simplification and there are many factors, but mismanagement explains a lot of it.
A detour is in order (Score:2)
Those water sources are doomed (Score:2)
Meanwhile, farmers are deliberately growing the thirstiest crops (almonds) in a part of the world with the least ability to sustain, because it lets them make a bit of
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The world is about to relearn King Canute's lesson. You can't alter the laws of physics by believing the opposite really really hard. Sincerity and greed have absolutely no value in bending thermodynamics.
Maybe at some point humans will learn we aren't special, there is no divine right to rule the world, and the universe doesn't give a fucking fly damn about any of us. If we choose to do fucking moronic things for temporary convenience, and we end up screwing things up really bad, no bishop or governor, rad
Posted this before (Score:5, Interesting)
More than once, actually [slashdot.org].
The problem is - the size of the Great Salt Lake has varied significantly even during recent times.
- Back in 1873 it was 2400 square miles
- In 1963, the lake set a historic low of 950 square miles (only recently beaten)
- Then, in 1980, it was back up to a record 3300 square miles
As far as I can tell, no one has actually demonstrated this recent (and huge) decrease is not part of this natural variability. I certainly believe it could be human-caused; but it seems to me people are just assuming that's the case without actually looking at any data. And frankly, as someone who thinks human impacts on climate are a real problem, I think this is a serious issue and makes it easier for the climate change deniers to keep pretending there isn't a problem.
Re: Posted this before (Score:2)
Scrolled all this way hoping someone would mention the â80s. The lake was literally overflowing then, and the extensive Bangerter pump-dike system was built to move some of the water to empty space near I-80. All of this infrastructure is still in place too.
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Scrolled all this way hoping someone would mention the â80s. The lake was literally overflowing then, and the extensive Bangerter pump-dike system was built to move some of the water to empty space near I-80. All of this infrastructure is still in place too.
Many Utahns are worried about a repeat of 1983 when State Street became a river. Ironically, this led to a portion of City Creek being permanently brought above ground in the shopping center bearing its name. This year we've already had flooding in Ogden, Kayesville, and part of Lehi. Many "dry" creeks are within inches of their banks.
There are hundreds of dry lakes (Score:3)
I'm sure they'll use the time wisely! (Score:2, Troll)
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Mormons actually tend to be better educated than the so called "evangelicals". They are still very right-leaning, but more likely to listen and cross-check.
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