First Steps Agreed on Plastics Treaty After Breakthrough at Paris Talks (theguardian.com) 43
Nation-state representatives have taken the first concrete step toward a legally binding treaty to regulate plastic, described as the most important green deal since the 2015 international climate agreement. From a report: The banging of a recycled-plastic gavel, on Friday night at Unesco headquarters in Paris, signalled the end of a fraught process, marked by accusations of exclusion and industrial lobbying. Talks threatened to fall apart, but in the end delegates were able to broadly agree on key elements that the treaty should contain, laying the groundwork for the future agreement.
Attended by delegates from 180 nations and dozens of stakeholders including civil society groups, waste pickers and a coalition of scientists, the talks were the second of five meetings to thrash out the wording of the new treaty, which could come into force in 2025. The world produces almost 400m tonnes of plastic every year; an estimated 14m tonnes escape into the ocean annually. There is a growing recognition that this vast international problem requires a harmonised global response.
While plastic has historically been viewed as an environmental waste problem, critics now emphasise the array of harms this fossil-fuel-derived and chemical-rich product causes to the environment and human health across its entire lifecycle. The production of plastic has been shown to worsen air pollution, while its material waste intensifies flooding and starves wildlife. Plastic particles are now found in the air, in drinking water and in human blood.
Attended by delegates from 180 nations and dozens of stakeholders including civil society groups, waste pickers and a coalition of scientists, the talks were the second of five meetings to thrash out the wording of the new treaty, which could come into force in 2025. The world produces almost 400m tonnes of plastic every year; an estimated 14m tonnes escape into the ocean annually. There is a growing recognition that this vast international problem requires a harmonised global response.
While plastic has historically been viewed as an environmental waste problem, critics now emphasise the array of harms this fossil-fuel-derived and chemical-rich product causes to the environment and human health across its entire lifecycle. The production of plastic has been shown to worsen air pollution, while its material waste intensifies flooding and starves wildlife. Plastic particles are now found in the air, in drinking water and in human blood.
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's a good start, but we should not bind ourselves legally to any of this type stuff....you never know what can happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would that matter? As the Native Americans have noted, they signed 301 treaties with the US, and the *only* part of any treaty the US complied with was "we take your land".
Clothing is the largest ranging source. (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless they ban all forms of plastic clothing that are laundered regularly, microplastics will continue to make their way everywhere as the biggest source of airborne plastics are dryers.
Re:Clothing is the largest ranging source. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok but we need to be careful not make it sound like because it's not perfect right now, then it's better to do nothing. This conference is not going to be the last.
We started with the plastic straws, cutlery, dishes, coffee cups, shopping bags, we talk already of single-use food packaging. Every time we hear some voices saying it's nothing. It's a step by step process because an immediate complete ban is impractical, as public acceptance is important for the democracies to be able to approve laws, and acceptance can only be reached when done cautiously through small steps (remember the outcry when plastic straws, which do not affect our lives in any important way, were targeted).
The simple fact that nation-states accepted to join and, in principle, reach agreement to ban something, whatever it will be, is already a progress compared to what happened until now. And the trend to address one by one the different sources of plastic pollution will hopefully continue over the next decade or two.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Plastic shopping bag bans do significantly more harm than good for the environment as they are regularly used to contain a hell of a lot of other trash, much of which itself is plastic, for an EXTREMLY small amount of plastic used. It is the definition of feel good environmentalism that has little effect on the problem, and a large amount of negatives.
Re: (Score:3)
What studies say about plastic bags is that it is unclear if the total amount of plastics was reduced because the reduction in free plastic bags was compensated by increased purchased of dedicated trash bags. The intended effect here was not reduction of plastic volume but reduction of careless behaviour with free bags. I find it has worked, I no longer see plastic bags flying around.
It has not worked (Score:1)
I find it has worked, I no longer see plastic bags flying around.
I regularly go on trash walks, and the volume of plastic bags in the wild has dropped MAYBE 10%. Still find several fresh bags a week in trees, in streams, etc.
Where is it you can not find plastic bags in the wild? Certainly not California either, which has masses of the things blowing around because of the homeless. The entire state is a trash pit at this point last I was there, from LA to SF and more north.
Re: (Score:2)
It's changed nothing. It's virtue signaling at its worst. The big grocery chains went along with it for the combination of PR with loud Leftist groups as well as the added revenue stream of selling people bags every time they shop.
The few that are actually using reusable bags are using bags with much larger carbon footprints and also wasting water washing those bags over and over again.
This is yet another example of why I ignore most environmentalists. They keep going for the highly visible feel good win
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That's strange. The lack of plastic shopping bags has had zero impact on my ability to get a 30L bin liner for our household waste. I'm not just going outside and throwing my coke bottle in the river simply because I don't get a plastic bag when buying groceries anymore. Is that what you're doing?
The overwhelming majority of shopping bags were not used as you described, even if you personally did use those pathetically small hole filled worthless bags as trash bags.
Re: Clothing is the largest ranging source. (Score:3)
One of the weird things about current regulation in Europe, is that the cutoff for "plastics free" is at 5%. That means if you have a plastic wrapper weighing 0.5g, and you replace that with a 20 gram paper wrapper coated with 1 gram of plastic (in order to get a heat sealable surface), you can now claim plastics free packaging, and your product looks so environmentally responsible on the shelves when it's packaged in brown paper.
But in actual fact despite the good looks, the amount of plastic doubled, and
Re: (Score:2)
But in actual fact despite the good looks, the amount of plastic doubled, and worse the consumer doesn't know it's plastic, and might be less inclined to put it in the bin.
And also it cannot be recycled as paper OR plastic, it can only be incinerated (in a system which gets hot enough to cleanly burn plastic. relatively, anyway.)
Re: (Score:2)
While technically they could do that, the EU has indicated that the percentage will fall. So it would be a stop-gap at best, and there is a clear incentive to simply move to genuinely plastic free packaging.
Besides, the number of products where changing to packaging that is over 20x heavier just to get a "plastic free" label actually makes sense is extremely low.
Re: (Score:3)
Agree 100%! It's tricky to find a balance between two kinds of automatic (and extreme) reactions in our society: 1) The "we are succeeding, so let's continue doing business as usual" story, and 2) the "it's not worthy doing, because it isn't enough".
It's very difficult to zero in the "correct" trajectory in any complex global issue, but to have a chence we definitely have to avoid falling into those extreme positions. Unfortunately, those are the ones that grab all the headlines and capture the public disc
Plastic causing flood (Score:2)
[plastic] waste intensifies flooding
If like we you wonder how plastic intensifies flooding, here is an answer: plastic bags had blocked storm drains [theguardian.com].
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah no, the actual headline should be poor waste/water management intensifies flooding. Put enough trash or any other detritus in front of the drains and you get flooding, plastic or not. An amalgam of paper, metal foil, and cloth bags would have the same effect.
Re: (Score:2)
An infinite number of elephants would have had the same effect as well, but they weren't present and plastic bags were.
Don't pretend plastic bags aren't special, because they very much are. We use them specifically because they have special properties, so arguing that they don't is ridiculous at best.
Re: (Score:2)
Except flooding in urban areas is constantly caused by things not plastic. Nowhere in the study did they try and determine the efficacy of plastic vs other sources, and they even admit that the waste/water management is extremely poor.
What about saving the trees? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I see all the plastic - straws, cutlery, packaging, etc - being replace by fibre based materials and cardboard. Yes, they are not all made from trees, and ideally they will be made from waste products and not use valuable arable land, but I doubt that will actually be the case. Much less of it is likely to be recycled as well as paper is much more easily contaminated (though much of it can be composted now). Maybe the old way was better overall, but it would be wrong to think we are solving all the environmental problems of packaging with this step (back).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe we shouldn't be using disposable crap at all ... use washable/reusable plates and cutlery. Don't use straws -- we're not newborn infants that need a teat to drink from. If you're over the age of 2, just drink from the glass.
Merchandise still needs to be packaged for transport, and Skip The Dishes is not going to pick up my containers before they go pick up my food, nor am I going to take my own dishes when I order takeout, I draw the line at my own coffee mug. I've gotten used to always taking re-usable bags for shopping, but there is a limit to how much stuff I'm gonna carry with me, and indeed I now have to buy plastic bags for kitchen waste and cat litter that I used to get for free, cause paper just does not do the trick
Re: (Score:2)
I don't do takeout -- at this point with appitty-apps! (crap craps!) it's often cheaper to just walk to the resto, sit down, and pay the tip. Not to mention being less asocial.
Energy shouldn't be a major issue if we weren't FUCKING COWARDS being allowing new, clean, safe nuclear reactors to be built.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't do takeout -- at this point with appitty-apps! (crap craps!) it's often cheaper to just walk to the resto, sit down, and pay the tip. Not to mention being less asocial.
Energy shouldn't be a major issue if we weren't FUCKING COWARDS being allowing new, clean, safe nuclear reactors to be built.
I have a handful of good restos in walking distance, but many more in driving distance (and hundreds on the app). I love all sorts of ethnic food - Indian, Chinese, Caribbean, Japanese, Mexican, South American, African, Thai, Ukrainian, Middle Eastern, et al as well as the usual pizza, chicken and burgers. Can't be limited by what is close, way too much variety to enjoy. I do prefer local establishments over chains, with some rare exceptions.
As for nuclear, I'm a big supporter, but talking about that
Re: (Score:2)
And another person that has the attitude of "I see no use, so no one else should have a use". Nice self-centered world you live in.
Lots of things I want disposable and airtight (Score:2)
Maybe we shouldn't be using disposable crap at all
We can't go that far. Medical supplies in particular should be disposable and use plastics wherever needed for seals and safety. No used needles, thank you. Making sure we have sterile hermetically sealed bandages, syringes, ultra clean and flexible IV lines, etc. etc. all seem intrinsically worth the cost in use of disposable plastics. Find a way to incinerate them safely, filter the exhaust, and use the energy generated as well, but preventing more disease outbreaks through overly zealous avoidance o
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not just medical supplies. That was just a really good example. Plastics have done a lot to improve sanitation and thus reduce disease while improving quality of life across a multitude of uses.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And how about all the people screaming about fresh water supplies? What are you going to use to wash all those non-disposable crap?
Re: What about saving the trees? (Score:2)
The real solution is the same for paper as for plastic. Don't throw it away in random places! Put each item in the proper recycling bin.
Re: (Score:2)
Which does nothing. The vast majority of 'recycling' ends up in a garbage pit somewhere. The only way recycling programs actually work at all is with multiple small open-topped crates for different recyclables that allow the collectors to see the contents and reject the crates that are not following the program.
Re: (Score:1)
I'm old enough to remember why we switched to plastic. It is more durable, theoretically more recyclable, and saves cutting down so many forests.
Nope. You're old enough to remember what marketing people want you to remember. The concept of recycling plastics is something that came long after adoption, a narrative that was pushed by an industry facing strong headwinds in the face of a problem they created. And it works, here you are actually saying that recycling was a topic before introduction.
We switched to plastic because it was billed as a durable, practical wonder material. Nothing more. We didn't know how to recycle it. And we sure as **** didn
Re: (Score:2)
The concept of recycling plastics is something that came long after adoption
As did the concept of recycling paper. It was newly felled trees for everything back then as well. Even without recycling plastic was seen as the better environmental alternative.
Re: (Score:2)
That's bad, but it's also not related to plastic. The paper bags and paper wrappers which we could switch back to in order to use less plastic are not a threat to forests.
As for arable land: sure, but our products have to come from somewhere. Growing things c
Everything is made of plastic (Score:2)
This treaty they are working on is more talk about a subject we have known about for decades. No action, just talk. Treaty maybe in the future. Look at the labels on the cloths you wear. Almost all are made with plastic. Every time it's washed it sheds some of the plastic in the wash water. Just about all the products we use everyday are mostly plastic. We have a long way to go to eliminate micro plastics.
Re: (Score:2)
Just one word... (Score:2)
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Plastics."
-Mr. McGuire - The Graduate, 1967
Embrace the subscription business model (Score:2)
If you're in any business that makes tangible product, get out now and switch to a subscription business. It won't be too much longer before nobody will be able to manufacture anything and make money doing it. John Galt would be so proud.
what they need to ban (Score:2)
Next ban needs to be plastic gavels.