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Local Governments Overwhelmed By Tennis-Pickleball Turf Wars, Documents Show 120

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: In late September, an arsonist set fire to a storage shed at Memorial Park used by the Santa Monica Pickleball Club, torching thousands of dollars worth of nets, rackets, balls, and other pickleball equipment. "Unknown suspect(s) caused a fire that damaged city property (Tennis Court Gate)," a police report I obtained using a public records request says. The report adds that there is body camera footage of the incident and police-shot photos, but the city refused to release them to me because there is an ongoing investigation. The arsonist is still at large.

We still don't know the motive behind the arson, but the news caught my attention because it happened while I was in the midst of trying to understand what I've been calling the pickleball wars. For the last few months I've been trying to understand what's been happening behind-the-scenes in cities large and small by filing public records requests aimed at learning how common beefs about pickleball are, and what's causing them.

If you don't already know about "the fastest growing sport," Pickleball is kind of like tennis, but played on a court a quarter of the size using a plastic ball similar to a wiffle ball and a hard racket. The smaller court, hard ball, and hard racket means that pickleball is louder than tennis, a fact that is brought up very often by homeowners and homeowner associations who claim, somewhat dubiously, that the noise from pickleball drives down their home values. My hypothesis going into researching this article was that people who live in cities are mad at the noise created during the act of playing pickleball and they have probably complained to the government about it. What I found was surprisingly more complex: Thousands of pages of documents I've reviewed show that pickleball's surging popularity is overwhelming under-resourced parks departments in city governments all over the country.
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Local Governments Overwhelmed By Tennis-Pickleball Turf Wars, Documents Show More

Local Governments Overwhelmed By Tennis-Pickleball Turf Wars, Documents Show

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  • Anyone else looking forward (Score:4, Funny)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:45PM (#64044701)
    to the 1990s style gang warfare movie about the pickles & the rackets?

    Drive buy servings. Dead balls. Love 40. I can see the movie poster now:

    "In the heart of our cities, people die for wearing the wrong polo shirts!". Now who are we gonna get to replace Dennis Hopper...

  • Not all bad (Score:5, Informative)

    by chipperdog ( 169552 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:52PM (#64044715) Homepage
    When the park department converted the tennis courts a block away from my place to pickleball courts, they went from like 1% utilization (would very rarely see anyone using them) to nearly full utilization during the spring/summer/fall (northwestern Minnesota here) , so they are getting much more use for the money being spent to maintain them, and everyone using them has been friendly and takes care of the facility.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by wiggles ( 30088 )

      > minnesota

      >everyone using them has been friendly and takes care of the facility

      Checks out.

    • Re:Not all bad (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:24PM (#64044799) Homepage Journal

      Yep. On the one hand, facilitating a healthy and popular recreational activity is a straight up win.

      On the other hand, if people leave near the courts and have to hear that clickity-clack all day long, I can see why they would resist that. Of course, the right way to resist would be to propose and support legislation to ban it, or propose funding/etc., to put the courts only in indoor facilities, or to relocate to a different address that is further away.

      I personally don't have sympathy for the "my home values are going down" complaint. Viewing property as an investment with a profit motive is economically harmful and the root cause of the current housing crisis. Too bad, so sad. Sell at the lower price if you cannot cope with the noise.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Immerman ( 2627577 )

        I completely agree about property values.

        And even if I were sympathetic, it's still not the government's job to care about your property value. It's there to serve the community as a whole, not just a few entitled assholes.

        • Re:Not all bad (Score:4, Insightful)

          by taustin ( 171655 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:51PM (#64044883) Homepage Journal

          By "entitled assholes," do you mean neighboring homeowners or pickleball players?

          Enquiring minds want to know!

          (Of course, that's not necessarily an "or" question. It could easily be both.)

        • it's still not the government's job to care about your property value.

          Indirectly, you are completely 100% utterly wrong on this.

          It is absolutely the government's job to prevent an uncaring majority from making a minority's life miserable (e.g. by making their houses unlivable due to noise).

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

            • most noise ordinances start at 8 or 9 pm

              In many places that doesn't mean you can make arbitrarily large amounts of noise outside of those hours.

              You could always put in earplugs to help yourself before you go to the extreme of disrupting the communities recreations.

              If you are making so much noise that someone needs earplugs in their house then you are being astonishingly antisocial.

              Ignore them of course.

              And that's why there are laws.

              • Comment removed based on user account deletion

                • It seem to be more antisocial to demand others alter their behavior just to avoid some sort of personal bias against earplugs.

                  You would get angry if someone sat outside your house running a massive stereo or unmuffled bike all day.

                  In this case, both groups have a reasonable position, but your lack of empathy is so deep it seem like you almost enjoy the idea of sticking it to those people.

    • Same in my area. The tennis courts got some use, but were often empty. Then a few years ago they tore them out and put pickleball courts in, and instantly they were at nearly 100% utilization, with frequent tournaments, and would play into the night thanks to some lighting that was also installed (don't remember if the lights were there when it was tennis courts.) When I read about it in the city newsletter I had to look it up because I was apparently the last one in my area who didn't know what pickleba

    • Came hear to say that and add usually itâ(TM)s the people without friends or too lazy to have fun that complain when facilities are used and people enjoy themselves lately the complaints even from vegetarians about bbqâ(TM)s held by meat eating Pub goers or people buying next to amusement parks then complaining about the noise what did they expect
    • However, like any fad, I don't expect pickleball to last more than a year or two. See hula hoop.

  • Spoofing every gang-warfare movie ever, pickelballers vs tennis players. Will the laced rackets or the hard rackets win? I would totally watch this movie!

  • We should applaud people getting out and playing sports. Good for them.

    If the sport is too noisy then I'm sure some bright spark can come up with some adaptation of the ball or the bat or even some active noise cancelling that could help.

    • The noise is negligible even if you're at the courts with multiple games being played. It might be louder than tennis, but it's at most a temporary inconvenience for someone passing by. Even if you were in an office across from some courts it's not going to be old enough for anyone to notice.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        I'm not a pickleballer, but the paddle noise is semi-rhythmic so I don't mind it at all. What's disturbing is is the occasional yelling, but that happens with any sport. So if it was a sudden surge of tennis instead of pickleball, I think people would still complain.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by taustin ( 171655 )

        Not that I particularly disagree, but the complaint aren't coming from people passing by, they're coming from people who live next door, and the noise is only "temporary" in that the courts usually close during the night hours. During open hours, it's pretty continuous in the busy ones.

      • The noise is absolutely not negligible. A number of years ago my Mom bought a nice house right across the street from a park that had tennis courts. Then pickle ball came into fashion and all day long one could hear the noise from the courts inside her home with the windows closed (and heaven forbid she would want to open one, or have a peaceful day gardening in her backyard) constantly at all hours of the day including hours when people are not supposed to be playing. It was absolutely a primary reason for

        • The noise is absolutely not negligible. A number of years ago my Mom bought a nice house right across the street from a park that had tennis courts.

          Please google "coming to the nuisance". I'm sorry it didn't work out, but it's not the fault of pickleball players...

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by skam240 ( 789197 )

            What? "coming to the nuisance" doesnt apply. If you had bothered to read one sentence further into my post you'd have seen that my mother bought the house before pickle ball was being played in this park. These were tennis courts that she moved close to and tennis doesnt make the same noise that pickle ball does. Pickle Ball only started being played on these courts about 5 years or so after she bought the house.

            • Youâ(TM)re funny. The city park was there first. Are you suggesting that no new activities can be invented and carried out at a city park?

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by skam240 ( 789197 )

                No, I'm telling you that noise was never an issue until the pickle ball started. In other words, the nuisance came to my mom, not the other way around.

                I'm really not sure why you need that explained to you.

                • No, I'm telling you that noise was never an issue until the pickle ball started. In other words, the nuisance came to my mom, not the other way around.

                  Actually, that's not how "coming to the nuisance" laws work.
                  If you move in next to a ranch without animals, and then the animals appear after you move in - zoning still applies it's still your issue. The obvious difference here is your mom chose to move in next to a park instead of a ranch.

                  Again, sorry it didn't work out for your mom.

                  I'm really not sure why you need that explained to you.

                  The days when people had some etiquette on slashdot are obviously gone. Now we have people like you making mean comments like yours that read as though "It's the fault of the p

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by skam240 ( 789197 )

                    What nonsense. If ones neighbor starts making insane amounts of noise it isn't the fault of everyone around them because "hey, you moved next to people and people make noise". Likewise if people start making disturbing amounts of noise completely out of character for a park it is not the fault of the neighbors either. Feel free to finally cite a source though if what you're describing really is a proper legal doctrine that also supports what you're claiming as you say it does.

                    After that, give me a break wit

                    • I diminished no-one.
                      You're name calling.

                      Please spare me the false equivalency and accept that your mom moved next to a city park and the city park has city-park-noise that she didn't like.

                      If it was a legitimate noise complaint, your mother could have phoned the police who takes care of such issues. Perhaps she did, and they informed her that "it's a city park where a game is being played. Sorry, ma'am."

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by skam240 ( 789197 )

                      I diminished no-one.
                      You're name calling.

                      Oh, you lack insightfulness and the ability to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. How surprising...

                      If it was a legitimate noise complaint, your mother could have phoned the police who takes care of such issues. Perhaps she did, and they informed her that "it's a city park where a game is being played. Sorry, ma'am."

                      So not only can you not cite a proper citation to support any of the nonsense you've been claiming but now you're doubling down and creating even more fictions. In reality the city was working with my mom and her neighbors to reduce the noise disturbance. Over the course of several years with especially long weight times in-between (local city government moves slowly around here I guess) they trie

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by skam240 ( 789197 )

            That's simply not true. Pickle ball noise is a problem all over the country https://www.latimes.com/califo... [latimes.com] , it cant all be because of poor insulation.

            Nice try shifting blame though!

            • That's simply not true. Pickle ball noise is a problem all over the country https://www.latimes.com/califo... [latimes.com] , it cant all be because of poor insulation.

              Nice try shifting blame though!

              Blame shifting?
              So you're telling me that the L.A. Times confirmed that all those complainers' homes were well insulated? Impressive journalism, that is.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by skam240 ( 789197 )

                What I very clearly stated is that all these noise complaints happening nation wide cant possibly all be due to poor insulation because the odds of that would be ridiculous. Try being more attentive in your reading.

            • Comment removed based on user account deletion

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by skam240 ( 789197 )

                Well good insulation absorbs the sound without transmitting it. And I don't think blame applies to limitations of materials and construction. I mean that's just physics. physics operate independent of social notions

                I'll repeat myself again, the volume of pickle ball noise complaints happening nation wide couldnt possibly all be due to poor insulation. The odds make it pretty much impossible

                Yes, if you put enough insulation into anything you can eliminate any form of noise pollution you want but clearly given the volume of complaints what constitutes a normal amount of insulation in a home is not enough to deaden pickle ball noise.

                Why did you just reinvent and inject the concept of blame into a conversation in which it did not exist?

                Didnt exist?

                From the prior post

                Poorly insulated walls sure, but that's a deficiency of the construction of the home, not a deficiency of pickleball.

                Just because the word "blame" wasnt used doesnt mean blame

  • They get arson, we just get vandalism.
    https://www.tampabay.com/news/... [tampabay.com]

  • The article makes it clear this isn't about noise.

    It is about everyone who wants to use public space having useful (to them) public space available when they want it. There simply enough enough space to make everyone 100% happy 100% of the time.

  • Totally not a wildly dubious source that bombards Slashdot with outlandish stories impossible to verify.

    • 404media--facts not found.

    • Other news sources, such as the NY Times have reported similar stories this year. The continual *whap* *whap* *whap* of the pickleball for hours on end is annying to people who have to listen to it every day.

      It's not impossible to verify. All it takes is for you to stop being a whiner and do [nytimes.com] a simple [cnn.com] search [kpbs.org] for similar [businessinsider.com] stories [go.com]..

  • Fun times! (Score:3)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:15PM (#64044767)

    We have a sport that's primarily played by elderly people (pickleball), mixed up with noise complaints - which typically are the provenance of elderly people!

    This is gonna be the most grumpy, wrinkled rumble ever!

    • What aboot the work from home crowd? They are still a thing right? If you are trying to work and this clicking and popping sound continues all day...

      • You don't need a reason to expect or demand quiet, during any day or night. That should be the "default natural state." Maybe you want to meditate, or take a nap, or read a book, or whatever. If you are in your house with your windows shut and can still hear unnecessary and annoying noise, it can be a problem. The amount of problem and stress varies greatly with the individual.

        The three most annoying problems/examples in most places are:
        Dogs, vehicles with illegal exhaust modifications or condition, and

        • You don't need a reason to expect or demand quiet, during any day or night. That should be the "default natural state."

          LOL. It is not even the default natural state in nature. Expecting a city to be a quiet place is silly. Consider earplugs if you are that sensitive, they are cheap.

          • >"LOL. It is not even the default natural state in nature."

            Sure it is. There will some birds and frogs and crickets at such. Almost none of it reaches into your closed-windowed house like stupid vehicles with a "modified" exhausts, a dog barking endlessly for hours next door in the yard, a modern 1,000 watt stereo system with mega sub-woofers, or a chainsaw.

            >"Expecting a city to be a quiet place is silly. Consider earplugs if you are that sensitive, they are cheap."

            1) I didn't say city.
            2) Even in a

    • We have a sport that's primarily played by elderly people (pickleball), mixed up with noise complaints - which typically are the provenance of elderly people!

      Its the elderly who peaked at HS PE trying to relive their youth vs the elderly who hated HS PE. Different generations express this divide differently. Unless you are a raiders fan, then young or old its the same costume and face paint. Admittedly this helps in recognizing everyone if you missed a few season during incarceration.

    • I suspect the trend on this is towards 20-to-40-year olds. There is a big component of pickleball that is tied to organization by technology. I play in pick-up games every week and it's all organized using playtimescheduler.com. Works really well. Of the 25-or-so people that I see every week, I'd guess the average age is in the low 30s.

  • News for nerds? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:23PM (#64044793)

    Stuff that matters?

    Fucking Pickleball?

    What the fuck happened to this fucking site?

    • Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Funny)

      by taustin ( 171655 ) on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:57PM (#64044903) Homepage Journal

      What the fuck happened to this fucking site?

      Whatever it is, it happened years ago. If you smoked less drop, you'd have noticed sooner.

    • What the fuck happened to this fucking site?

      People grew up and moved out of their parent's basement. Now they need to find other social interactions so they took up Pickelball because tennis is too much effort.

      Some of us did not, and are confused about how something objectively popular "matters" to other people.

  • This article reminds me of those silly headlines you'd see in the ticker on SimCity lol

  • Pickleball is kind of like tennis, but played on a court a quarter of the size using a plastic ball similar to a wiffle ball and a hard racket

    It's like ping-pong where the the players actually stand on a large(r) table. :-)

  • Octagenarians out for a rumble. Knife canes and walkers. A whole orthopaedic wing of broken hips.

    • I'm down for a geriatric slap-fight. HOA royalty vs. public park facility terrorists. SMACK-DOWN!

  • Slashdot is finally dead, isn't it? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    News [X]
    for Nerds [X]
    Stuff That Matters [X]

  • Tennis/Pickleball
    serene/raucous
    staid/laughter
    silence/conversations
    serious/fun
    ascetic/sybaritic
    teetolal/imbibe-partake

    What I find interesting is most of the reasons tennis players put forward against pickleball really don't have anything to do with their problem with pickleball -- which is it's players are not treating the court space like its a church. They are afraid to say what really bugs them is people are overtly having fun. So they find all these other reasons ... or torch the pickleb

  • Noise? (Score:2)

    by PPH ( 736903 )

    Just put the pickleball courts next to the county rifle/pistol range.

  • Pickleball is a for-profit sport run by a few corporate entity (for the most part). They profit on match ticket sales and run a small underground gambling ring.

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