Ubuntu 24.10 to Default to Wayland for NVIDIA Users (omgubuntu.co.uk) 76
An anonymous reader shared this report from the blog OMG Ubuntu:
Ubuntu first switched to using Wayland as its default display server in 2017 before reverting the following year. It tried again in 2021 and has stuck with it since. But while Wayland is what most of us now log into after installing Ubuntu, anyone doing so on a PC or laptop with an NVIDIA graphics card present instead logs into an Xorg/X11 session.
This is because NVIDIA's proprietary graphics drivers (which many, especially gamers, opt for to get the best performance, access to full hardware capabilities, etc) have not supported Wayland as well as as they could've. Past tense as, thankfully, things have changed in the past few years. NVIDIA's warmed up to Wayland (partly as it has no choice given that Wayland is now standard and a 'maybe one day' solution, and partly because it wants to: opportunities/benefits/security).
With the NVIDIA + Wayland sitch' now in a better state than before — but not perfect — Canonical's engineers say they feel confident enough in the experience to make the Ubuntu Wayland session default for NVIDIA graphics card users in Ubuntu 24.10.
This is because NVIDIA's proprietary graphics drivers (which many, especially gamers, opt for to get the best performance, access to full hardware capabilities, etc) have not supported Wayland as well as as they could've. Past tense as, thankfully, things have changed in the past few years. NVIDIA's warmed up to Wayland (partly as it has no choice given that Wayland is now standard and a 'maybe one day' solution, and partly because it wants to: opportunities/benefits/security).
With the NVIDIA + Wayland sitch' now in a better state than before — but not perfect — Canonical's engineers say they feel confident enough in the experience to make the Ubuntu Wayland session default for NVIDIA graphics card users in Ubuntu 24.10.
From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:3)
What can you do with Wayland that you cannot do with X.org?
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I'm told Wayland has support for those new fancy OLED monitors, which will be lacking close enough to forever in the X.org. Would be a big reason if you were considering such a monitor.
Re:From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:5, Informative)
What can you do with Wayland that you cannot do with X.org?
On paper, it has a few minor strengths compared to X11. In practice, it has no advantages over X11 and has plenty of weaknesses.
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Actual security (on X11 *any* app can watch *all* your keystrokes!)
Different refresh rates on multi monitor setups
HDR
VRR
Perfect frames
and that is just from the top of my head...
Re:From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:5, Insightful)
Like I said, it seems good on paper, but in reality:
1) Screen recording doesn't work, breaking many programs, because it's security goes too far. I've read, but not confirmed, that Wayland devs don't see this as a problem and so won't fix it.
2) It couldn't handle any of my three Acer monitors just a few months ago (I've detailed this in other postings), not even when only one is attached by itself.
3) It's slow compared to X11.
4) It can't run programs remotely (its X11 support will eventually wither and die, so xwayland isn't a long term solution).
5) None of its theoretical advantages adequately compensate for its missing features.
And that's just off the top of my head.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
1 - Screen recording works perfectly
2 - I couldn't say about your personal experience but here my three monitors with three different resolutions and refresh rates work perfectly fine (are you using Gnome by any chance?)
3 - That is just not true. Period. ( Point to numbers to back your claim )
4 - waypipe
5 - Even if half of what you said was true, just because of the security it brings is totally worth using Wayland (because, you know, that is a _personal_ opinion
Give KDE Plasma (with Kwin) a try and then ge
Re: From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:3)
Don't trigger me to go into a rant about Acer equipment again. I'm never again buying anything from Acer and I strongly advise you to do the same. Every. Single. Thing. Broke. All of it. Stupid management deciding on price alone.
I can't answer the rest of your points. Wayland works great for me but I don't do screen casting. I've not been using it for long but it's noticeable how much less CPU and ram it uses, but on modern systems I can blame anyone for not noticing. It feels more responsive, which admitte
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What can you do with Wayland that you cannot do with X.org?
The only thing Wayland has going for it that Xorg does not, for me at least, is that it allows for different scaling factors on each monitor when using multiple monitors. Feature for feature, Wayland is lagging way behind Xorg. Development has been, and continues to be, going slower than a snails pace.
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Development has been, and continues to be, going slower than a snails pace.
I haven't followed it too closely, as I'm still using Xorg, but wasn't the rationale for Wayland to "get a fresh start", which would remove "the Xorg cruft" and allow "fast development"?
I won't be surprised at all if it has failed at the "fast development from scratch" part, but if it isn't developing, then move of other major distributions to it that I keep reading about would be not a very smart one...
Re:From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:4, Interesting)
Development has been, and continues to be, going slower than a snails pace.
I haven't followed it too closely, as I'm still using Xorg, but wasn't the rationale for Wayland to "get a fresh start", which would remove "the Xorg cruft" and allow "fast development"?
I won't be surprised at all if it has failed at the "fast development from scratch" part, but if it isn't developing, then move of other major distributions to it that I keep reading about would be not a very smart one...
Høgsberg said a lot in the beginning about how much of X was unnecessary in a modern display server. That was FIFTEEN years ago.
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That was FIFTEEN years ago.
Indeed... Scary how time flies.
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Re: From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:2)
Why would an hour long video about the history of x11 tell me what Wayland can do that X11 cannot?
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Nothing. In fact whenever I use a system running Wayland I wonder WTF is wrong with it, then I realize it's running Wayland.
Instead of just improving proven software they set out to reinvent the wheel not realizing how much work that actually is. Probably naive kids combined with "original creator's" feature creep from-scratch redesign from hell (this almost never works out; see Perl 6, IPv6, HURD, BTRFS, and everything else).
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Queue in Lennart and christoban in 3,2,1...!
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Well, someone's got to put you troglodytes straight! :D
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Security.
Re:From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:4, Insightful)
Specifics?
It seems 99% of the time that people claim security benefits, it's either total bullshit, or only used for DRM and other forms of license enforcement.
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X has no concept of security as it doesn't allow an app to monopolise a session. Fundamentally there's no security on X. Some basic things like lockscreens require either horrendously clunky workarounds, and often even with those in place are trivially worked around.
Since I'm no longer dialing into mainframes from fixed PC where I can detach the network session to secure my station while I walk away this is a pretty big gap in the modern day. X's foundational design is simply not suited to many use cases.
I
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The way X is architected, any app can see the inputs sent to all other programs, and it's impossible to fix that.
An X.org programmer covered all this and tons more advantages in the comments on a Wayland article here several months ago. People brought up all the same bad arguments against it, then, too. Wayland is the future, for very good reasons.
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X has no concept of security as it doesn't allow an app to monopolise a session. Fundamentally there's no security on X
if you are concerned about not having a lockscreen, or user apps running on your own machine being able to read or tamper your interaction, then i'd guess that fundamentally there's no security at all on your system (anymore).
ofc these are nice to have for security in depth, they may be a convenience or privacy consideration, but they're a pretty laughable argument to scrap an entire system in the name of security and start a replacement that won't be working before a decade. i mean, commendable and welcom
Re:From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:4, Insightful)
Who gives a shit if another application can see your screen?
The whole "security" bullshittery means NOTHING. If an attacker can see your screen in the X server.... you are already compromised - either physically or remotely. And if a remote attacker has enough permissions to see your X screen, they have way more than enough access to trigger any other exploit on the machine to elevate privileges. Doesn't matter a pinch of shite if the attack comes from a compromised application being run or a live attack. You are ALREADY compromised, and literally everything on the machine can be exfiltrated - from keystrokes to what's being run on the CPU, to what's in RAM.
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Any program that goes online will be exploited eventually. Browser writers can talk about rust and sandboxing all they like, they are only human and humans will find a way to fuck up in new and interesting ways. Wayland securing message pumps from isolated processes is hardly the be all and end all of security, but it's surely better for it simply to be impossible (for reasonable definitions of impossible) for a compromised user space program to start keylogging and screen scraping? If you have to find a se
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Who gives a shit if another application can see your screen?
Erm do you understand how locked sessions in a public environment work? You may not care on your home computer, but right now as it is X fails basic security requirements applied in any corporation around the world.
Just because you don't care about security doesn't mean it is irrelevant to everyone else.
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It's not hard to understand. Period.
If someone can see your X screen, you are already fucked. Compromised. With all the exploits for privilege escalation on ANY of the OSes out there, if someone has the ability to read screens, they have the ability to do ANYTHING on the machine.
So don't go trying to preach to me about how good this security theater bullshit is.
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Have decent performance.
On Wayland (on an nVidia 4090FE) KDE Plasma6 outperforms X in everything. Even simple things like dragging windows on a 165Hz display on X is a pain, on Wayland it's butter smooth to give the most simplistic example.
Re: From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:3)
Same here with a 3060ti with KDE.
But the problem is why is it so choppy now under X when an earlier generation nvidia card was butter smooth on X?
It's not that Wayland kde stack improved performance, it's that X stack drastically reduced it. Why is the question.
Re: From-the-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-dept (Score:2)
I was sceptical too. Wayland really is mature enough for general use. It did take some years, but we are there now.
Wayland has better security. Keyloggers are still a thing on X, but not on Wayland.
Wayland uses far less CPU and memory.
Video is more responsive. It's not really much of a difference on modern hardware though.
It just works. Or it did for me at least. Zero configuration.
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Wayland still sucks (Score:5, Informative)
What can you do with X.org that you cannot do with Wayland?
A great deal, actually:
1. You can’t screenshare outside of Chrome. Try it. Try to screenshare your screen, or a non-Chrome app, and you’ll find it impossible.
2. You can’t readily screencapture with OBS or other screen recorders, because of the security system by design. Thirdparty unsupported plugins try but I’ve never gotten them to work.
3. You can’t turn off your monitors via the console.
4. xrandr doesn’t work at all.
5. Wayland doesn’t support even 25% of the features of xrandr, for instance, multiple monitors with two different scaling multiples is impossible. Thus, if you have a HiDPI 4K laptop monitor and a 1080P 32” monitor, you have to suffer at 2X zoom on the 1080P or not be able to read the HiDPI monitor.
6. In gaming, Wayland has known keyboard and mouse lag problems. It’s impossible to play a game like Counter Strike because of this.
7. Applications with global hotkeys (for instance OBS) will not function, as by design, Wayland prohibits apps from having global hotkeys.
8. In my experience (50/50 split), X.org has never suffered a catastrophic segfault n the last 5 years. Wayland suffers catastrophic, sudden segfaults (usually when ALT+TABing out of a fullscreen app like JetBrains Rider or PhpStorm) about once a month, losing all work.
9. Zoom and MS Teams struggle mightily to screenshare.
10. Non-gnome screenshot apps, particularly in KDE Wayland and Shutter, do not work at all due to terrible overbearing security nightmares.
11. Firefox will NOT scale display no matter what on HiDPI screens in Wayland, so it is impossible to use because I can’t read any of the UI.
12. Very very hard to do remote desktop with Wayland.
13. Gnome is pretty much the only DE that supports Wayland well. KDE is trash, try Cinnamon in Wayland I’ve gotten nothing but pain.
14. Switching games from Full Screen to Window Mode in Wayland with Display Scaling on, many, many times (85%+) causes the screen to tear and the only hack is to Super+SHIFT+ArrowKey the window to a secondary monitor and back again. Don’t have a second monitor? Well, your only option is to ALT+F4 and kill the game.
There are many, many more cons against using Wayland. These are just the ones I experience every day. You can read a lot more over at https://gist.github.com/probon... [github.com] [Wayland Breaks Everything].
Why do I use Wayland 25-50% of the time? That’s a good question:
1. When I will not need to do screensharing and only have one monitor (e.g., my laptop’s HiDPI monitor), Wayland makes my Asus Zenbook 14 OLED laptop’s battery last from 6-8 hours. When I don’t play video games and only have 1 monitor, about 66% of these problems aren’t issues.
2. When I specially configured Chrome to use native Wayland instead of XWayland, the CPU usage by both Gnome and Chrome drops percipitously particularly when idling, down to 9-12% cummulative (just 1 core) when active and 1-3% when idle.
3. Wayland supports OLED monitors. While I get 60 Hz refresh rate on Xorg, I can get the full 150 Hz refresh rate on Wayland, meaning less eye strain.
That’s about it.
For a lay person who only uses Chrome and LibreOffice or what not, Wayland probably is the way to go until they want to screenshare. For serious people, Wayland is a daily impediment.
I can’t believe distros are revoking all support for Xorg. what a terrible move!! Wayland is at least 3-5 years from being a usable replacement for Xorg, imho.
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Here’s a video that goes into at least half of the problems I talked about above:
In 2021 Wayland still does not support global hotkeys, for the security?!? :-/ [youtu.be]
Re:Wayland still sucks (Score:4, Informative)
2. Absolutely not true, OBS works fine on Wayland. Pipewire capture works out of the box without any "3rd party plugins".
3. Use wlr-randr
4+5. Xrandr is, as the name suggests, an X11 tool.
7. There's a portal for that but OBS has not implemented it, so perhaps go tell them to do it.
10. Again, absolutely not true - Spectacle works fine.
13. I run Plasma6 on SUSE every single day on Wayland with only minor issues (mainly things like graphical corruption in some applications such as OpenSnitch-UI and some nVidia tomfoolery that will soon be fixed with their new 555 drivers).
Honestly over half of your list is either incorrect or you've stretched personal issues to fill the list (certain application screen capture not working) etc. Saying things like Teams and Zoom having issues as "maybe if you're a pleb it'll work for you!" is hilarious.
Wayland still has issues but it's a whole hell of a lot better than X11, if you have modern hardware.
Re: Wayland still sucks (Score:4, Interesting)
Not being able to screen share with Wayland has been a deal-breaker for me. I use Ubuntu on my work laptop and I have to be able to share my screen. I'm stuck in X11 until that gets resolved.
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What are you using to screen share? Just tried firefox + Plasma 6, and it just works...
Wayland has the infrastructure in place, complain to the makers of your tools.
Re:Wayland still sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
Use wlr-randr
Does that work in gnome/mutter?
7. There's a portal for that but OBS has not implemented it, so perhaps go tell them to do it.
sure bruh
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME... [gnome.org]
GNOME started work on supporting global hotkeys 3 months ago, and Wayland world only got initial support two years ago
https://github.com/flatpak/xdg... [github.com]
This is the think, it took 13 years for Wayland based desktops to get a sniff of an incredibly common feature in the last 40 years, then the instant they do it's immediately everyone else's fault (you're blaming OBS, there I see, never mind GNOME) that it's not instantly being finished.
This is why the Wayand transition will continue to be miserable for probably another decade. Everything people need (bourne out by decades of desktop OS experience) is out of scope or someone else's fault, or not there by design. Eventually, the features arrive, but every one of them has to be fought for painfully. And the weird thing is Wayland proponents defend the state of it.
I think in a decade it will probably have covered all of those bits and then it will be fine. But the huge mush of wayland + all necessary support libraries won't be simpler than X. It won't be substantially faster. It will have some features that X doesn't (20 years of stalled development will do that), but nothing anything like architecturally impossible in X.
It'll be fine eventually, but somewhat faster if the Wayland fanbois stop telling people they either don't need it, shouldn't want it, or that it works perfectly when it doesn't or in any case is someone else's fault.
Wayland still has issues but it's a whole hell of a lot better than X11, if you have modern hardware.
Is it?
Works fine for me.
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> Everything people need
The amount of people using Slashdot is a fart in the wind compared to the number of Wayland users out there today who are happy with it.
Do you think /. commenters represent the average user, or even semi-experienced Linux users? Yeah no, it's a place for cranky old farts that complain about everything.
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So... I'm right, but they're aren't enough of us so I don't count.
I did read an article a while ago about a problem Redhat ran into. They've been pretty gung ho on Wayland and all that. Anyway turns out Wayland has no window placement protocol. If one complains about it, you hear gales of defences about how it's legacy or out of scope or not Wayland's fault and really X sucks and anyway Wayland isn't trying for feature parity and also security or something.
You know the usual excuses for why something doesn'
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It's the same thing as when Microsoft changed a lot of things in Windows Vista. The difference being that MS has the power to say "tough luck, adapt" .
Apple did the same thing when banning kernel extensions and enforcing SIP. Same thing : "tough luck, adapt" . I know: I spent a year of development adapting...
Python2 -> Python3? Tough luck...
MS word ribbon UI? Tough luck...
Now it's the X11/FreeDesktop community saying "tough luck, adapt". The difference being there was 10 years of open development process
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Re: Wayland still sucks (Score:2)
I was using VLC on Wayland with sway yesterday. Worked flawlessly. I can't speak for KDE though, I noped out of that when the abomination that was KDE 4 came out.
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> I don't remember much about KDE3 though.
If you want to jog your memory: https://www.trinitydesktop.org... [trinitydesktop.org]
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For serious people, Wayland is a daily impediment.
Thanks for telling us all that only "serious people" do the things in your list. #gaslightingisfun.
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1. You canâ(TM)t screenshare outside of Chrome. Try it. Try to screenshare your screen, or a non-Chrome app, and youâ(TM)ll find it impossible.
I've been screensharing in Firefox and Wayland for years.
2. You canâ(TM)t readily screencapture with OBS or other screen recorders, because of the security system by design. Thirdparty unsupported plugins try but Iâ(TM)ve never gotten them to work.
And just yesterday I was recording a screen session with OBS and shared a miniturorial recorded via Spectacle (KDE app)
3. You canâ(TM)t turn off your monitors via the console.
What are you talking about? have you tried cec?
4. xrandr doesnâ(TM)t work at all.
Of course not, you have to use an alternative for wayland like kscreen-doctor (KDE app)
5. Wayland doesnâ(TM)t support even 25% of the features of xrandr, for instance, multiple monitors with two different scaling multiples is impossible. Thus, if you have a HiDPI 4K laptop monitor and a 1080P 32â monitor, you have to suffer at 2X zoom on the 1080P or not be able to read the HiDPI monitor.
What on earth are you smoking? That has been possible for a while. And with different refresh ra
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> Have been screen sharing with Zoom and MS Teams for at least two years...
You mean other tabs within Chrome only? Or actual windows/screens from other applications?
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Wayland makes my Asus Zenbook 14 OLED laptop’s battery last from 6-8 hours.
I've noticed that if you dim your laptop screen, it can make the battery last a lot longer. OSX does this by default, but not all Linux distros do it.
It's new, it must be better! (Score:4, Informative)
My only experience of Wayland so far was awful -- but it was on a Raspberry Pi.
I tried the Wayland version of Raspberry PI OS (Bookworm) and even just moving the mouse pointer around the screen spiked the CPU to 40 percent on a Pi4. WTF? Yes, I checked, that was a totally fresh install on a machine that ran perfectly well on the original 64bit Raspberry Pi OS.
Tried it on an RPi 5 and it was just as bad.
So much overhead in anything display-oriented -- and no, I hadn't disabled GPU acceleration or anything -- these were fresh installs.
Went back to the older X-based version (Bullseye) and it's perfectly fine.
Did I just get a bad build or what?
One (probably flawed) datapoint.
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Since the process manager (or top) was opened, did you notice which process was using the CPU?
What did Linus say to Nvidia (Score:1)
Nvidia is a Microsoft butt kissing conglomerate which only throws Linux onto the desks of interns and says they support Linux.
They launched Jetson SoCs with Linux images and nobody told the interns what SCM was. He or she created a zip file with an fie image compressed inside and a name like blob-for-jetson-nano.img and updates were files having the same names just different creation dates.
P
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I'm sure more than a few of you know that Linus gave Nvidia the finger and more a few years back and with good reason.
Yes, they wanted to connect to the kernel in ways they weren't allowed to. Changes were made in Linux that forced them to comply. Nvidia made the necessary changes on their end in relatively short order, so short in fact that by the time I actually got a distro with an affected kernel the driver had already been updated, so there was zero impact to me — an Nvidia user. No question that it was sleazy, though.
I used to be an Nvidia user because I dual-booted, and AMD drivers for Windows are hot garbage
Square vs triangular wheel (Score:5, Funny)
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Sounds like the time I kept trying to run the X11 test screen and getting nothing but black. Reading the docs it seems the old 1x1 pixel checkerboard pattern had been retired for a new solid black test screen. Good fucking job there.
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The Wayland devs re-invented the X square wheel and optimized so it is now a triangular wheel with one less bump and they insist that it is progress.
This is probably the best description I've heard.
I tried the new "Wayland only" Fedora KDE (Score:3)
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A growing portion is IPv6, but I don't think it's the majority yet. Google has it at about 46% of their traffic [google.com] as of this last weekend. CloudFlare had a post in October 2023 suggested that a little over a third of what they saw was IPv6 [cloudflare.com]. A lot of that is driven by cell phones, as most or all wireless providers in the US (and probably a number of other countries) issue IPv6 addresses, and the mobile network stacks prioritize 6 over 4.
Home users aren't as lucky, often either stuck with IPv4 or, worse, IPv4 p
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Seems like almost all the IPv6 issues boil down to ISPs trying to wedge it into an IPv4 shaped hole. Insisting that each customer only needs one address, refusing to let users request a larger prefix for guest networks etc.. If they would deploy it as suggested, we'd be done with it. Amazingly, Comcast is one of the very few to run it in a reasonable way.
Ubuntu tends to pull this crap time and again (Score:2)
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this is the relevant part "because half the applications you use now have hard dependencies on this half-baked pile of shit."
The Ubuntu game is to create new proprietary dependencies. That it. That's all. Now you are a captive of the ecosystem.
Redhat/IBM, same game.
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A prime example of this is PulseAudio - I was in college when that junk was foisted upon us. Well, here we are a decade later, and what do we have? The same sort of dumpster fire as we had ten years ago, only now you can't cleanse that garbage from your system anymore, because half the applications you use now have hard dependencies on this half-baked pile of shit.
You can replace pulseaudio (and JACK!) with pipewire and wireplumber. It also supports ALSA clients. Just install pipewire and wireplumber, chmod -x pulseaudio, and reboot. This is effective on probably any Linux system; I do it on Devuan. You need to keep pulseaudio installed for the client libraries. You can control system and application volume using the pulseaudio interface, so all of your normal desktop environment volume controls will work with it.
I agree that pulseaudio is crap, but you CAN replace i
What makes an "nvidia user"? (Score:2)
The hardware? the driver? If I happen to like nouveau, because I change kernels often, don't have heavy graphics requirements, and don't want to deal with the nvidia blob driver, am I still going to get Wayland?
I've tried wayland on a gt710 (yes, I know, ancient but does the job and find me a newer GPU that's passively cooled / no fan noise) with nouveau, and it's completely unusable. Crashes, lock-ups, weird crap with my kde layout, typing echo is so slow that it's usually 3-4 characters behind, etc. I
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The blob driver. Nvidia stalled global progress for a few years.
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I've tried wayland on a gt710 (yes, I know, ancient but does the job and find me a newer GPU that's passively cooled / no fan noise)
I have a Windforce 4060 16GB and the fans don't run most of the time, even for light gaming. It's not until I run something graphically intensive that they turn on at all, and they're still quieter than my system fan (stock cooler, system not overclocked) because of the blade design and the counterrotating fan not fighting its neighbor. I'm told that if you underclock and undervolt you still get decent performance and the fans only run slightly on very heavy loads.
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I have 8 computers in my home office (and no other place to put them), and 7 of them have no integrated video and GT710's. (the other has no integrated video and an RX550.) I'll happily take money donations for the $700 or so that it would cost to replace the GT710's with say RX6400's, which is about the cheapest new card I can find. And that's assuming that a 6400 works with Wayland, which from reading the above is no sure thing at all. (Intel A380 prices out roughly the same, and the cheapest nvidia, a
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Oh, and trying the nvidia blob driver might be an interesting experiment and blame-finder, but it's not a workable answer in the long run.
It works great. I run it on Devuan with a 6.6 kernel, installed from the CUDA runfile installer. I set my system up with another runlevel so I can have multiuser without X conveniently, which is how I remember things typically working back in the way back but isn't the default for some reason now. From there, it's convenient to install the new driver. I am using root on zfs so I can easily snapshot that, as well... but I frankly don't usually bother because the driver is so reliable.
I don't have anything me
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>> I suppose I should try it with the nvidia blob driver, just to see what happens.
This.
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https://www.newegg.com/asus-ge... [newegg.com]
it wasn't really that hard, and your post is obtuse
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Still $100 per computer, for a 7 year old design that's interesting only by comparison with, say a GT710. Is the GT 1030 all that much better with Wayland under nouveau? Keep in mind that I switch kernels a lot and don't want to deal with perpetually reinstalling nvidia blobs.
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I dont really care, that's your problem, the statement was
(yes, I know, ancient but does the job and find me a newer GPU that's passively cooled / no fan noise)
and I did that within a few seconds of searching on newegg