First-Known TikTok Mob Attack Led By Middle Schoolers Tormenting Teachers (arstechnica.com) 135
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: A bunch of eighth graders in a "wealthy Philadelphia suburb" recently targeted teachers with an extreme online harassment campaign that The New York Times reported was "the first known group TikTok attack of its kind by middle schoolers on their teachers in the United States." According to The Times, the Great Valley Middle School students created at least 22 fake accounts impersonating about 20 teachers in offensive ways. The fake accounts portrayed long-time, dedicated teachers sharing "pedophilia innuendo, racist memes," and homophobic posts, as well as posts fabricating "sexual hookups among teachers."
The Pennsylvania middle school's principal, Edward Souders, told parents in an email that the number of students creating the fake accounts was likely "small," but that hundreds of students piled on, leaving comments and following the fake accounts. Other students responsibly rushed to report the misconduct, though, Souders said. "I applaud the vast number of our students who have had the courage to come forward and report this behavior," Souders said, urging parents to "please take the time to engage your child in a conversation about the responsible use of social media and encourage them to report any instances of online impersonation or cyberbullying." Some students claimed that the group attack was a joke that went too far. Certain accounts impersonating teachers made benign posts, The Times reported, but other accounts risked harming respected teachers' reputations. When creating fake accounts, students sometimes used family photos that teachers had brought into their classrooms or scoured the Internet for photos shared online.
Following The Times' reporting, the superintendent of the Great Valley School District (GVSD), Daniel Goffredo, posted a message to the community describing the impact on teachers as "profound." One teacher told The Times that she felt "kicked in the stomach" by the students' "savage" behavior, while another accused students of slander and character assassination. Both were portrayed in fake posts with pedophilia innuendo. "I implore you also to use the summer to have conversations with your children about the responsible use of technology, especially social media," Goffredo said. "What seemingly feels like a joke has deep and long-lasting impacts, not just for the targeted person but for the students themselves. Our best defense is a collaborative one." Goffredo confirmed that the school district had explored legal responses to the group attack. But ultimately the district found that they were "limited" because "courts generally protect students' rights to off-campus free speech, including parodying or disparaging educators online -- unless the students' posts threaten others or disrupt school," The Times reported. Instead, the middle school "briefly suspended several students," teachers told The Times, and held an eighth-grade assembly raising awareness of harms of cyberbullying, inviting parents to join.
The Pennsylvania middle school's principal, Edward Souders, told parents in an email that the number of students creating the fake accounts was likely "small," but that hundreds of students piled on, leaving comments and following the fake accounts. Other students responsibly rushed to report the misconduct, though, Souders said. "I applaud the vast number of our students who have had the courage to come forward and report this behavior," Souders said, urging parents to "please take the time to engage your child in a conversation about the responsible use of social media and encourage them to report any instances of online impersonation or cyberbullying." Some students claimed that the group attack was a joke that went too far. Certain accounts impersonating teachers made benign posts, The Times reported, but other accounts risked harming respected teachers' reputations. When creating fake accounts, students sometimes used family photos that teachers had brought into their classrooms or scoured the Internet for photos shared online.
Following The Times' reporting, the superintendent of the Great Valley School District (GVSD), Daniel Goffredo, posted a message to the community describing the impact on teachers as "profound." One teacher told The Times that she felt "kicked in the stomach" by the students' "savage" behavior, while another accused students of slander and character assassination. Both were portrayed in fake posts with pedophilia innuendo. "I implore you also to use the summer to have conversations with your children about the responsible use of technology, especially social media," Goffredo said. "What seemingly feels like a joke has deep and long-lasting impacts, not just for the targeted person but for the students themselves. Our best defense is a collaborative one." Goffredo confirmed that the school district had explored legal responses to the group attack. But ultimately the district found that they were "limited" because "courts generally protect students' rights to off-campus free speech, including parodying or disparaging educators online -- unless the students' posts threaten others or disrupt school," The Times reported. Instead, the middle school "briefly suspended several students," teachers told The Times, and held an eighth-grade assembly raising awareness of harms of cyberbullying, inviting parents to join.
Not new nor different (Score:3)
The only difference is that they know now, by watching the evidence splattered in tiktok.
Which I think is actually bad and should be be banned for kids usage.
Re: (Score:3)
There is a difference. Practically nobody tried to frame the teachers back then. Of course, the kids don't get all the blame. Our long running moral panic about pedophilia and willingness to shoot first try later greatly amplifies the potential damage.
Re: (Score:2)
> Give them nicknames, doing offensive jokes about them and laughing behind their backs.
Thanks mild childish stuff, kids these days are much more sophisticated in how they attack teachers. Some have had life changing injuries.
If you did this as an adult (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
The science behind risky behavior in teens is well documented. Taking risks (and thus making some bad decisions) is part of growing up, almost as if we are designed to find our limits.
Re: If you did this as an adult (Score:3)
But you never find your limits if society doesn't periodically give you a beating for your behavior.
Re: (Score:2)
> But you never find your limits if society doesn't periodically give you a beating for your behavior.
Thats a brain dead assumption.
It only works if you're one of the troublesome kids who did bad things.
Most kids simply grow up and gain maturity by observing what not to do, from the bad ones as well as emulating role models.
Social media screws with the role model side of things which is why most of the normal kids, i.e the ones who dont think it's ok to mug a pensioner for some cash for a pack of ciggies
Re: If you did this as an adult (Score:2)
The science of risky behavior also suggests that there's a feedback mechanism. When risky behavior meant fucking with a lion, the feedback mechanism was very effective. When the feedback mechanism is a stern talking to by the teacher and parent, not so much.
Your example of kids who act right because they are not pieces of shit is a straw man. We're not talking about them. We're talking about the degenerates.
Re: (Score:2)
If you do this as a child, your parent receives that legal action. Children are like walking liability extensions of their parents.
send them to Bel Air! (Score:5, Funny)
send them to Bel Air!
TikTok (Score:2)
I am confused how they shared such an elaborate plan in just a few seconds. Did they lose attention while watching it?
Middle school (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
> I recall a teacher in middle school who made the toughest kid in the school come back in tears from a paddling.
It took me about 30 seconds to realise you were not talking about a kid being shouted at by a teacher for not playing nice in the paddling pool.
Re: (Score:2)
One of my earliest and most traumatic memories from my young childhood is being punished with a slipper by my teacher. She took me into the empty hall next to the classroom for this.
The teacher was also my mother!
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
My parents signed the waiver allowing the Principal to paddle me. I was quite fearful of the Principal, though she never did use the paddle. The paddle was prominently displayed on the wall in her office, ready to use at any moment. Definitely had a deterrent effect.
Re: Middle school (Score:5, Insightful)
Mine didn't. I never mouthed off even once in elementary school. I did however get in trouble for not putting my head down on my desk and resting quietly when I was done with my work. Not only is that bullshit but I was already tall then and doing that literally hurt.
The principal was very cool though. She could see that I was troubled. Took me to lunch a few times. That teacher was only there for one more year. I was there for two more before we moved.
Today they would decide that I was on some spectrum and either medicate me or put me in some special program, or both. But I still wouldn't get paddled.
In any case it's the PARENTS who should be paddled if anyone. They're the ones who produce little shitlords.
Re: (Score:2)
If, as an adult, I got paddled at my workplace by my boss for being tardy, I could justifiably have him arrested for assault. Why is it appropriate to do the same thing to a child???
The science says children are human (Score:3)
On the whole the evidence is overwhelmingly against. Let's follow the science, people.
Turnabout is fair play (Score:2)
Make fake accounts for kids, with them making derisive comments about their friends and their love for unfashionable clothing brands
Solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds like a shortage of dads to me.
Dad comes home, hears about the problem, yanks the phone out of the kid's hands, throws it over the house and watches it shatter in the driveway.
"If you ever post about your teacher online again the sun will go out."
The memory of the look on dad's face at that moment will solve the problem permanently.
Re:Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like a shortage of dads to me.
Dad comes home, hears about the problem, yanks the phone out of the kid's hands, throws it over the house and watches it shatter in the driveway.
"If you ever post about your teacher online again the sun will go out."
The memory of the look on dad's face at that moment will solve the problem permanently.
That sounds like child abuse.
It's not teaching the kid not to cyberbully, it's teaching the kid that problems can be solved with violence and intimidation (ie. bullying).
Re:Solution (Score:4, Funny)
It's not teaching the kid not to cyberbully, it's teaching the kid that problems can be solved with violence and intimidation (ie. bullying).
This is the speech. Learn it well.
"Hi. I'm your father. I am one of five people on this Earth important enough that God Himself mentioned me by name in humanity's general regulations.
I have orders to keep you alive, and I'm going to carry out those orders whether you like it or not. The next time you run in the street, the last thing you will see before I yank you out of your socks is a fast-moving shadow.
Oh sure, I might go to jail for a long time, but at least I won't be 'the dad who was too much of a pussy to keep their kid from being run over by a paint truck.'
Understand? Good. Dismissed."
Re: (Score:2)
First, the one situation is nothing like the other. It sounds like you're working through some childhood trauma publicly here, which is OK (I am willing to support you going through it) but it doesn't speak to what we're talking about at all.
Second, instead of yanking your kid by the arm to get them out of the street, how about walking with your child and holding their hand and helping them understand through that process that you stay out of the street?
Third, society can and should help. Anyone else rememb
Re: (Score:2)
t sounds like you're working through some childhood trauma publicly here
Your passive-aggressive communist bullshit isn't going to work with me, so save it.
instead of yanking your kid by the arm to get them out of the street, how about walking with your child and holding their hand and helping them understand through that process that you stay out of the street?
Children do not understand abstract danger. But they do understand when dad is upset. Keeping a child safe requires fathers to substitute the latter for the former.
When a child does something dangerous, it is the father's duty to make that child so afraid of what their father might do that they never seriously consider doing it again.
We have many examples of the alternative in society: Children who have no fathers. Those resu
Re: Solution (Score:2)
Not at all, it teaches the kid that violence generates violence in the opposite direction, and that when you bully, there will always be a bigger bully who will bully you in return. Even as an adult. A visit to the state prison also can help.
Every state depends on violence (Score:2)
It is, ultimately, the only way that order is maintained. Used appropriately and legitimately it enables society to work. The only question is when a child discovers this truth and how they respond. Pretending that there is always an alternative merely shows a lack of thought; there was no alternative to the destruction of Berlin in 1945 to exterminate the Nazi regime.
Re: (Score:2)
There was no alternative to make the former-colonists submit than to put the White House on fire - The english circa 1812.
See how stupid your line of reasoning is?
Er... what? (Score:2)
Good to see there's someone else out there like me who jumps to a conclusion that isn't obvious to the average reader. Want to show your working for that comment please?
Re: (Score:2)
It is, ultimately, the only way that order is maintained. Used appropriately and legitimately it enables society to work. The only question is when a child discovers this truth and how they respond. Pretending that there is always an alternative merely shows a lack of thought; there was no alternative to the destruction of Berlin in 1945 to exterminate the Nazi regime.
Used appropriately, I don't think that use was appropriate.
The state monopoly on violence needs to be based on well defined rules justly executed, that's how it maintains order. Fits of rage and unpredictable violence are precisely the kinds of violence that destroy order instead of creating it.
Re: (Score:2)
You can't bomb an ideology out of people.
Re: (Score:2)
Not at all, it teaches the kid that violence generates violence in the opposite direction, and that when you bully, there will always be a bigger bully who will bully you in return. Even as an adult. A visit to the state prison also can help.
Well now I understand where all those abusive cops and bosses came from.
In fact...
Well there ya go [wikipedia.org]. I just looked that up on a hunch and a bunch of abuse in the childhood (including potentially from the father).
Re: (Score:2)
problems can be solved with violence and intimidation
Is this not how the law is enforced?
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like a shortage of dads to me.
Dad comes home, hears about the problem, yanks the phone out of the kid's hands, throws it over the house and watches it shatter in the driveway.
"If you ever post about your teacher online again the sun will go out."
The memory of the look on dad's face at that moment will solve the problem permanently.
That sounds like child abuse.
It's not teaching the kid not to cyberbully, it's teaching the kid that problems can be solved with violence and intimidation (ie. bullying).
Wrong. It’s teaching a phone junkie that actions have consequences.. And I agree 110% with destroying a phone to make that point. I’d even do it slowly and make the child do it.
Child “abuse”?? I have no fucking idea how you were labeled insightful here. Seriously.
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like a shortage of dads to me.
Dad comes home, hears about the problem, yanks the phone out of the kid's hands, throws it over the house and watches it shatter in the driveway.
"If you ever post about your teacher online again the sun will go out."
The memory of the look on dad's face at that moment will solve the problem permanently.
That sounds like child abuse.
It's not teaching the kid not to cyberbully, it's teaching the kid that problems can be solved with violence and intimidation (ie. bullying).
Wrong. It’s teaching a phone junkie that actions have consequences.. And I agree 110% with destroying a phone to make that point. I’d even do it slowly and make the child do it.
Child “abuse”?? I have no fucking idea how you were labeled insightful here. Seriously.
Taking the phone away and selling it is consequences. That's not what the described punishment was about.
Read it again "yank", "throw", and "shatter", followed by a vague existential threat. Imagine being the child in that scenario with the father acting with rage and unpredictable violence, it would be terrifying.
The goal there is not taking away the phone, it's a show of power and violence which the explicit goal of traumatizing the child. In other words, abuse.
Re: (Score:2)
Taking the parentâ(TM)s property and removing it from a child is not child abuse.
As children I suppose that neither of us owned anything (there are exceptions, but in general true). But the proper understanding is that kids do own their stuff, but it's subject to confiscation by the authorities (parents).
Punishment of any kind is not child abuse, that notion that kids need a phone and TikTok is the cause of these issues.
You are part of this problem. My kids donâ(TM)t get TikTok or Roblox or any such platform that lets kids talk to strangers and is designed to work around parents and their mores.
Taking the phone away isn't child abuse.
Forcibly taking the phone, violently smashing it, and following up with vague existential threats that "the sun will go out" is child abuse. Maybe not legally, but that kind of display of violence and intimidation is the kind of thing that traumat
Re: (Score:2)
Forcibly taking the phone, violently smashing it, and following up with vague existential threats that "the sun will go out" is child abuse.
The alternative is communism, where the child quickly learns they can manipulate any situation to avoid taking responsibility for hurting others. See all historical attempts to implement communism for the results.
but that kind of display of violence and intimidation is the kind of thing that traumatizes a child
We now have conclusive proof the communist education these children have received encouraged students to organize against their teachers.
The communists then go on to absolve the children from responsibility by accusing everyone else of vague things like "child abuse" which is an adaptable term that
Re: (Score:2)
Forcibly taking the phone, violently smashing it, and following up with vague existential threats that "the sun will go out" is child abuse.
The alternative is communism, where the child quickly learns they can manipulate any situation to avoid taking responsibility for hurting others. See all historical attempts to implement communism for the results.
I need to abuse my child or it will be communism!! COMMUNISM!!!
Ok, maybe that's a bit much.
but that kind of display of violence and intimidation is the kind of thing that traumatizes a child
We now have conclusive proof the communist education these children have received encouraged students to organize against their teachers.
The communists then go on to absolve the children from responsibility by accusing everyone else of vague things like "child abuse" which is an adaptable term that means whatever communists need it to mean in order to harm American families and schools.
The purpose here is to twist every event and incident towards the goal of destroying American culture and society. You'll find the same pattern at work in "climate change," feminism and our mental hospital job market.
Standard Stalinist playbook. And I'm going to shine a ten thousand watt spotlight on it every time so people who see it have the facts.
Nope, nope, I think my mocking of your hysterics was fully justified.
Re: (Score:2)
I need to abuse my child or it will be communism!! COMMUNISM!!!
This is the next step. If someone articulates anything that hinders the America-last agenda, you accuse and name-call. Generally you accuse reasonable people of whatever you happen to be doing to oppose them.
In this instance, anything but allowing children to run wild is the adaptable term "child abuse" which we've already covered.
Nope, nope, I think my mocking of your hysterics was fully justified.
The third step in three-step communism is to avoid the merits. The only way communism can survive in a reasonable debate is by distractions, name calling and accusations. Anythin
Re: (Score:2)
I need to abuse my child or it will be communism!! COMMUNISM!!!
This is the next step. If someone articulates anything that hinders the America-last agenda, you accuse and name-call. Generally you accuse reasonable people of whatever you happen to be doing to oppose them.
In this instance, anything but allowing children to run wild is the adaptable term "child abuse" which we've already covered.
Ok, so your claim is that if someone disagrees with me I just resort to accusations and name-calling, gotcha.
Nope, nope, I think my mocking of your hysterics was fully justified.
The third step in three-step communism is to avoid the merits. The only way communism can survive in a reasonable debate is by distractions, name calling and accusations. Anything good for students or a family is child abuse, patriarchy, oppression, toxic masculinity and so on.
Now that you have the facts, you can see it for what it is and you will recognize it everywhere it is attempted.
And that tactic makes me a communist! A COMMUNIST!!!! One that resorts to distraction, name calling, and accusations! ACCUSATIONS!!!
I humbly suggest you need to improve your capacity for self-awareness.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it is not. It is my property, I can destroy it. I guess you've never had or disciplined kids or been disciplined for that matter, kids need consequences.
Consequences yes, predictable orderly consequences. Not fear and violence.
Abuse is a far cry from threatening them with or giving a spanking, unless you consider what literally all people do around the world except some coddled westerners to be child abuse.
Corporal punishment is going out of style world-wide.
Historically it was far more common because kids needed to be trained to be comfortable with violence because they lives in tribal societies where war was very common, or early organized society with little law and order.
But adults no longer need to be violent to survive and thrive, if anything it's a disadvantage. So corporal punishment has lost its purpose.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow, adults no longer need to be violent to survive and thrive, unless you live in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, South America or European inner cities.
Wow, you've got some weird impressions of the rest of the world.
I was just recently in Vietnam for a couple weeks, didn't witness any violence and a Vietnamese couple fired a nanny for spanking their child.
Re: (Score:2)
Why should low-IQ teachers that supports/forces you to study bad curriculums and are members of unions who think the purpose of schools is to give teachers work, not to provide children with an education be protected against satire?
You really need to see The people vs Larry Flynt again, especially the scene in the court about satire. I am surprised to meet snowflaky attitude on Slashdot of all places.
Still plenty to sue over, civil and criminal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, this is a failure of the lawyers. LOTS of laws were being broken.
While the speech is covered under the first amendment generally, the behavior is covered under the state's hazing law, the state cyber-bullying law, the state's harassment law, the state's stalking laws, and the state's harassment laws.
There is also civil law. The teachers and district don't need criminal charges in place to go for civil charges, and since it has a much lower legal standard of "more likely than not" they've got a higher chance of success. It's true the kids wouldn't go to jail, but they could face enormous fines for the damages they inflicted. The school district and the teachers all should be filing civil lawsuits against the students and the parents/guardians.
The first amendment isn't a defense against harassment or stalking, and it sounds like they did both and plenty more.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, this is a failure of the lawyers. LOTS of laws were being broken.
While the speech is covered under the first amendment generally, the behavior is covered under the state's hazing law, the state cyber-bullying law, the state's harassment law, the state's stalking laws, and the state's harassment laws.
There is also civil law. The teachers and district don't need criminal charges in place to go for civil charges, and since it has a much lower legal standard of "more likely than not" they've got a higher chance of success. It's true the kids wouldn't go to jail, but they could face enormous fines for the damages they inflicted. The school district and the teachers all should be filing civil lawsuits against the students and the parents/guardians.
The first amendment isn't a defense against harassment or stalking, and it sounds like they did both and plenty more.
That sounds like a failure of common sense.
You think middle school students have sufficient understanding of the harm they were committing to be subject to criminal penalties or even "enormous fines"?
They're kids, they thought it was a joke, a mean joke that could get them in trouble, but not a joke that could cause significant emotional trauma and career ruining reputational damage to the victims.
In this case I think the punishment was appropriate for the perpetrators, suspension and lessons to ensure the
Serious deterrence required (Score:2)
One of the roles of punishment is to deter the wider population from repeating the behaviour. The tap on the wrist - not even a slap - of the punishment you are proposing is not sufficient to achieve meaningful deterrence.
Of course ultimately the responsibility here is with the parents who have bought up evil little creatures without any moral sense. Whilst the parents may be able to claim that they didn't know what little Johnny was doing online / bullying in the playground / sexually harassing other stude
Re: (Score:2)
You think middle school students have sufficient understanding of the harm they were committing to be subject to criminal penalties or even "enormous fines"?
No, and I don't think their parents do either, but paying those enormous fines and being subjected to criminal penalties for the actions of their children might teach them, and it's their job to teach their kids so making them aware is the first step.
It's not the school's responsibility to teach your kids not to be little assholes. It's yours.
In this case I think the punishment was appropriate for the perpetrators, suspension and lessons to ensure the student population understood the harms of what they were doing.
Agreed, but the parents are the actual cause and I hate to see them get off without consequences.
Re: (Score:2)
Not little assholes, but future US presidents. Parents look up to and praise people like their children mimic... Democracy at work-- they've found somebody who actually represents them who is just like them.
Re: (Score:2)
The "they are just kids being kids" argument is alright when they are 5 or 6 years old, middle schoolers should know better.
Also, the punishment should mostly be targeted at making the parents of the little blighters feel the wrath, so that they will be encouraged to give Junior the treatment his behavior has earned.
Who Ultimately Pays. (Score:2)
true the kids wouldn't go to jail, but they could face enormous fines for the damages they inflicted. The school district and the teachers all should be filing civil lawsuits against the students and the parents/guardians.
And if you REALLY want to know what the cost is for those who utterly fail to discipline their children properly is, just ask the tax-paying parent 6 months after the civil lawsuits are settled why they’re pissed about an increase in local taxes to pay for “unbudgeted litigation.”
No. Our world is in fact not benefitting from throwing more greedy lawyers at it.
Expel them (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
And Johnny will look up at you can calmly say he does not need to go to school. Your only recourse is then to throw him out of the house at which point you have promised him a youth of delinquency, and he'll certainly grow up into a fine outstanding adult after that, yes?
There is no silver bullet, every one of the kids is different and lives in different circumstances. You have to find a way to get under his/her skin and change his/her behavior. If you cannot find a way to do this, then you cannot find a wa
Parents need a license (Score:2)
No training for parents who are usually the real problem!
We REQUIRE minimal training to drive a car or do much of anything that causes harm to society but the most damage we can do is to pop out disturbed children!
At least force the parents into training when their children misbehave. Failure to learn results in society protecting itself by relocating the child. Love your child? prove it. Love your lousy parent? prove it.
Monsters are raised not born.
Re: Expel them (Score:2)
"threaten others or disrupt school"
Ummm ...
Who would have guessed⦠(Score:3)
Bring back beating childreb (Score:2)
Need to bring back beating children when they act up. Not for stupid shit like not cleaning your room, but if you put someone else in danger, you should expect corporal punishment.
They are everywhere (Score:4, Interesting)
> the first known group TikTok attack of its kind by middle schoolers on their teachers in the United States
Late to the party? We've been dealing with unruly cyberbullying and teacher assaulting gangs of little yobs in the UK for years.
Many schools are finding that the cause is the mental health issues having access to social media via smartphones in school are to blame. So now schools are banning such devices. Kids either have no phone, or a dumbphone. Smartphones are for "outside of school" hours and school provided tech such as laptops/tablets are used instead during lessons when needed.
Every school that has done this in some form (limiting smartphone usage in school to essentially nothing) confirmed massive improvements.
Who'd have thunk eh?
Still, any kids wanting to have a go at the teacher will arrange it using a sneakernet and get 'em at the school gates.
When I was a kid, you knew who such kids were as when I was in school in the 90's we had much better and stricter teachers who would easily make your life difficult with detentions, getting the parents involved, exclusions etc. The kids who pushed the buttons were the kids who you typically wanted to stay away from, the type who would push you up against the fence should you even look at them when walking past them. I learned to walk looking down at the ground in those days, still largely do even now when I'm 43. I avoid making eye contact passing anyone in the street, you learnt that as a kid. Eye contact was a direct challenge to others, if they don’t know you and you looked, glanced into their eyes for a brief moment they would see that as a chance to have a duel.
But since then, over only the last 20 years, it's gotten worse. The teachers are more and more either wet blankets who think they need to "nurture" the kids that are bad, totally ignoring the fact that such kids simply pretend to be "on the mend" or just get even worse as they see the teacher as a viable target. Or they are simply unable to dish out any discipline at all. I used to have the wet blanket type of teacher as my year 11 form tutor and trust me, although he was able to shout very well when he really needed to, he was usually so timid and quiet that watching him try and direct the class was a joke. When he did eventually shout he would finally shut most up, the good kids who were just taking advantage. Things changed when I moved into 6th form, keeping him as our form tutor he was much better as we, being 6th form students, were the clever and more educated kids who were much more cerebral and way easier to deal with. Our numbers were also much lower, all the rest of the kids leaving school after year 11, only us few continuing to 12 and 13 before going to college or university. The difference to my classroom experience between year 11 and earlier and 6th form was staggering.
But then there were some teachers you knew you should NEVER cross, they would deal with you like a P.E teacher would simply because you were chatting when working silently. The bad kids would frequently try them on too and frequently they ended up outside the room, whether they actually went to the headmasters office or no I can’t say, I doubt they had the self-discipline to do that.
But yep, the kids these days, thanks to smartphones giving 24/7 access to all sorts of dynamic and immediate influence, well I'm glad I never had an interest in teaching from what I’ve been hearing. There is nothing worse than letting a bunch of immature human brains throw immature and primitive ideas, thoughts and emotions at each other IRL, now they can do it with other immature brains in realtime with any kids from any culture across the world. That would make an unholy mix of incompatible cultures and influences, now with deep fakes and A>I, all without any context sent to brains that are actually developing to ingore context or to make it up to fill in the blanks.
Yeah, what a great idea that all was.
This is why... (Score:2)
More Detail Needed (Score:2)
I'm definitely in two minds on this. Did the schoolkids create fake accounts parodying their teachers and make jokes about them? (yes, calling Mr Oggins a paedophile is a joke, not an accusation). So far, no problem. Were the profiles they made public or private? If public, were they clearly parody accounts or did they attempt to masquerade as actually real accounts of the actual real people? Did they do anything with the accounts, such as send them to the newspapers and try to pass them off as real? Or wer
back in the 90's (Score:2)
Must be Consequences (Score:2)
Nothing will change and no amount of "talk with your kids over the summer" is going to do anything without material consequences. The worst kids should be considered for expulsion and others should have graduated discipline applied. Eject the kids from whatever extra-curricular stuff they've signed up for, that sort of thing.
The pain mostly needs to be felt by the parents though, so suspensions and stuff that force the parents to make arrangements for their kids can be pretty effective.
Also, when was it dec
Well, this is likely to accelerate things (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Kids Trolling Teachers causes alarm! (Score:3)
Re:Kids Trolling Teachers causes alarm! (Score:4, Interesting)
Friend of mine is an elementary school principal and some of the horror stories he's told about what kids learn from adults, and the appalling parenting he's witnessed, would make your toes curl. For example he confiscated vapes from nine-year old kids and threw them in the nearest bin, then called the parents. Parents came in, made a beeline for the bin, dug around to retrieve the vapes, then grabbed their kid on the way out and left. Other kids with confiscated vapes said they "don't feel safe around him", they know exactly what magic words to use to trigger a response and then the teachers end up in the crap rather than the misbehaving kids. .There are endless other stories like that, in a scary number of cases the parents either don't care about their kids at all or their little angels can do no wrong and the school will be hearing from their lawyers shortly.
In terms of what the school can do, they're no longer allow to give them a sharp clip around the ears every time they're complete bastards, they have to sit down and talk to them and give them counselling and sing kumbaya with them, which the kids openly ignore ("Are we done yet? Can I go now?"). So they know that no matter what they do, pretty much nothing will happen to them apart from having to sit through a boring lecture at some point.
Re:Kids Trolling Teachers causes alarm! (Score:4)
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Ass whoopin's sure as fuck improved MY behavior as a youngster.
It got my attention quickly and I learned rapidly to alter my behavior.
About the time we started completely "sparing the rod" we started down the path leading to where we are now with generations of undisciplined kids growing up to raise even more undisciplined kids.
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That's because nobody in your generation would hit back (and yes, when I was in middle school I saw the dean of discipline get his ass handed to him by a rather large student), or bring a gun to school in retaliation.
There was never a good reason to use physical violence against children. That being said, schools absolutely should be able to expel the bad apples.
Hitting where it hurts. (Score:2)
That's because nobody in your generation would hit back (and yes, when I was in middle school I saw the dean of discipline get his ass handed to him by a rather large student), or bring a gun to school in retaliation.
There was never a good reason to use physical violence against children. That being said, schools absolutely should be able to expel the bad apples.
Fifty years ago, teenage children would hang a shotgun in the rear window of a pickup truck that they drove onto a school campus after going bird hunting that morning before school. No SWAT team was called. No clickbait headlines. No American leaders threatening to eradicate the 2nd Amendment. Just a lone teacher stopping and asking the young shooter if he had any luck with hunting that morning.
Now, you tell me what has really changed in 50 years. Because it sure as hell isn’t shotguns or duck hu
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Now, you tell me what has really changed in 50 years
The primary purpose of 99% of guns in the U.S. no longer has anything to do with hunting ducks. Also, see: Columbine.
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"got my attention", exactly. It isn't about causing harm or pain for its own sake, it is about establishing dominance. And physical dominance is the only universally respected method. kids are quick enough to learn who they have to respect and who they don't.
Uh huh. Tell us another tall tale of how no physical discipline has lead us to a society of well-adjusted perfectly respectful children, as we sit as discuss teachers being framed as pedophiles by their child students who thought it was a funny “prank”. Whats next, bragging about how fatherlessness has benefitted daughters? Give me a fucking break.
No, kids are not quick enough to learn. Society is forced to wait until 18 to label them “adults” for a reason, and college campuses h
Re:Kids Trolling Teachers causes alarm! (Score:4, Interesting)
About the time we started completely "sparing the rod" we started down the path leading to where we are now with generations of undisciplined kids growing up to raise even more undisciplined kids.
I agree with that point, but I'd add that it was around the same time both parents started working. Things went to hell for my older siblings when my mom got a job. I was lucky enough to learn from their failures and court cases, but things would have been different for them if we'd had a parent in the house between 3pm and 6pm.
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Hmm...you have a point.
I'm generally loathe to have the govt. come in and throw money around to try to bend behavior of citizens....but maybe an exception here.
Maybe tax credits,
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Despite your own personal anecdote, there is clear evidence that corporal punishment should never be used and only makes things worse (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/15248380221124243).
RTFA (Score:3)
I guess I'm too old. I remember the Satanic Panic. Then again some folks love a good moral panic.
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I guess I'm too old. I remember the Satanic Panic. Then again some folks love a good moral panic.
What's old is new. Moral panics are basically every generation. Going after a (male) teacher for pedophilia is a very easy yet devastating attack.
The only new thing is the form it takes.
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And yet... Social Media companies make it bizarrely easy to impersonate somebody online and spread false information about them that never disappears. Oh, well if you're lucky the companies will take down the fake account after the damage has been done and, thanks to the fast one they pulled on Congress (section whatever of the communications whatever law that shields them from any responsibility for info posted - and spread via their algorithmic choices of what their users see).
So, is there a solution?
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Sadly, the satanic panic became more a model than cautionary tale. A lot of people built careers off of it, and almost no one who benefited from it saw any repercussions. So win-win, with the only losers being people that the 'winners' do not value anyway.
There were some great references to the Satanic Panic and the "Multiple Personality Disorder" brouhaha that came about during the same era in the book "Fantasyland: How America Lost It's Way" by Kurt Anderson. Psychiatry and psychology leaders bought in because it was MASSIVELY profitable, and often used all sorts of weird tricks to convince people they had been kidnapped by satanists, or that they had "hidden" personalities that dealt with all the abuse and sexual damage caused by parents/uncles/aunts/etc.
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Not like there are any pedos in the school administration : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
~150,000 photos taken, via school-issued laptops, of the kids in their own homes - most often bedrooms. Half of those mysteriously deleted just before the FBI served warrants. And all mysteriously excluded from the backup system.
The school district settled for over a million USD ($610K to the defendants, $425K to the lawyers) ... and no criminal charges were ever filed.
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So because there inevitable are some pedos among the world's teachers we should just burn all of the world's teachers at the stake to be sure we get all the pedos?
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it was a hell of a lot more than kids trolling teachers
It seems to me a civil suit brought by the harmed teachers against the children (and their families) would go a long way toward recovering some of the damage to the teachers' reputation and would decrease the likelihood of a repeat of similar behavior again in the future.
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New Headline incoming.
Kids being kids. Adults, we need to do better.
Who didn't write fan-fic about their teachers? Difference between my day and theirs? These kids don't pack around a notebook that nobody but their best friend will ever see. They post ever thought online, always. This is a teachable moment for the kids, but due to our society will likely lead to some ruined lives on both sides of the divide between teachers and students. Because there ain't nothing we can't turn into a righteous cause for punishment.
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Did you try to frame teachers for pedophilia?
No, but mom knows of some students in her grade who tried. That puts it back in the '50s, mind you.
Also had an incident where a (corrupt) cop was beaten to within an inch of his life by a bunch of teenagers. When all the bad sorts/usual suspects were all conspicuously in public places with lots of witnesses. What can I say, it was a small town.
I never had to watch soap operas, by the way, the hijinks of our family are far more interesting.
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I wonder who's going around trying to throw opponents in jail, who's running around pretending nothing's wrong with the potato in the white house
As someone from way across the pond, having a bland, non-controversial person running your country is good news. Having a potato relying on associates for policy is better than an orange that makes policy by the tweet!
Re:How were they selected? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How were they selected? (Score:4, Insightful)
All the good teachers are leaving the system in droves.
This is what Republicans [marketwatch.com] want [imgur.com] to [cnn.com] happen [imgur.com]. After all, as the convicted felon has said, he loves the poorly educated [snopes.com].
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your bunch wants their people stupid and uneducated
Schools are under attack right now by which party? Every accusation is a confession with you crackpots.
so they may suck at the government teat some more
You're deeply confused. [moneygeek.com] Really [wallethub.com]
And snopes? Really? My water bill has more credibility than that.
You're a very special kind of stupid, aren't you?
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No, he got the right bunch. The Republicans would like to destroy the education system and have children home-taught, by those Christian parents who get their science education from the Bible.
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Re: How were they selected? (Score:3)
Hey, Teacher! Leave them kids alone. (Score:5, Insightful)
Part of the social bonding of being a student is making crude, in-private remarks about teachers.
Students need to learn that social media is not in any shape or form private communication. Welcome to the adult world!
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Some of my friends got in trouble back in the early 90s when they TP'd a teacher's house but took it farther by using paint on her garage door and doing a few other minor, destructive things. Funny enough, she was a very popular teacher and wasn't targeted because the kids hated her.
A group of about 10 boys got some community service and a few detentions. I think they had to mow her grass all summ
Sentenced to mowing the grass? (Score:2)
Given the damage to equipment, buildings, lawn or landscaping that can be done with careless use of lawnmowers, was sentencing this students to mowing the teacher's lawn such a great idea?
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They had to mow the grass with tweezers.
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Well, this is far from a "prank". And I dont knwo much about US schoolkids by UK ones dont pull "pranks" on teachers that are "jerks", they openly abuse (physically in many cases these days) teachers who are: weak.
And most teachers are very weak as you cant even expell kids these days.
Once they are finished slapping and beating the teacher in school, those kids them go and terrorise the neighborhoods and housing estates and if they are really up on it, they form a gang and knick your catalytic converter ri
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Spreading lies via social media is not just writing on bathroom walls. And many parents are as stupid as their kids and will believe it.
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Kids are not supposed to be using Facebook or playing COD yet they still do. Banning them on TikTok wont work.
The solution is to ban them owning and using smartphones. Anything then heed to do online can be done at home or school with a PC/laptop or tablet. Kids have no business having a phone that can do anything more than send SMS and make calls.