Across the US, Heat Keeps Breaking Records (opb.org) 185
The western United States is experiencing an unprecedented heat wave, with multiple states breaking temperature records in recent weeks. Palm Springs, California has been particularly affected, shattering its all-time high temperature record when it reached 124F (51.1C) last Friday. The National Weather Service reported that Palm Springs hit 122F (50C) on July 8, the highest temperature ever recorded for that date.
This extreme heat is not isolated to Palm Springs, as Arizona, Oregon, and Nevada have also seen record-breaking temperatures. Climate scientists attribute this intensifying heat to human-caused climate change. The heat wave comes as global temperatures continue to rise. According to the European Union's Copernicus Climate Change Service, the world has been at or above the 1.5 degree Celsius threshold for 12 straight months as of June, a key marker in climate change discussions.
This extreme heat is not isolated to Palm Springs, as Arizona, Oregon, and Nevada have also seen record-breaking temperatures. Climate scientists attribute this intensifying heat to human-caused climate change. The heat wave comes as global temperatures continue to rise. According to the European Union's Copernicus Climate Change Service, the world has been at or above the 1.5 degree Celsius threshold for 12 straight months as of June, a key marker in climate change discussions.
I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:4, Funny)
Across the US, Heat Keeps Breaking Records.
I have no idea why this is happening but it is my deeply held belief that it is the Democrats' fault and you all have to respect that and accept it as the god blessed irrefutable truth.
What I want to know (Score:3)
Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:2)
Aka: "I've done nothing to help, and I'm all out of ideas!"
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At some point, it'll be so hot that sticking one's head in the sand will be fatal.
Re:I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:5, Insightful)
it is near its peak cold now
It might shock you to discover that during the glacial peak about 20,000 years ago it was much colder.
we should prepare and adapt to a warmer status quo
That's like suggesting that because you are driving at a brick wall you should brace harder rather than taking your foot off the gas too.
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2. The earth, for 90% of its history, had a warmer temperature than we experience now. We are exiting an ice age, and ice ages are geologically speaking; rare. For most of earth's history, a forest grew on Antartica. Civilization happened to develop when the earth was relatively cold. To expect it to stay that way is foolish. We know better.
3. Mankind is likely speeding up a process already underway, but sudden shifts in the earth's climate are not unknown to science.
Circle on this chart the previous "sudden shifts" you claim. https://xkcd.com/1732/ [xkcd.com]
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Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:2)
This argument has to also accept that civilizations rise and fall. It isn't OK with me to allow this civilization to collapse because you had a neat and tidy argument to excuse it. Is it OK with you, or was this just some great devils advocate argument to stroke one's own ego on?
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Yeah, it's going to really "improve" our civilization when the equatorial regions become literally uninhabitable due to summer wet bulb temperatures reaching fatal levels.
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There's other things besides the orbital variations that affect climate. such as continental drift. The closing of the straight of Panama stopping circulation between the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, the opening of the straight at the bottom of S. America isolating Antarctica and allowing the Southern Ocean to have weather circulate non-stop around the world are the two most recent examples that may have had major affect of the climate. Changing ocean currents can affect climate in a big way.
Then there is I
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The claim was that "sudden shifts in the earth's climate are not unknown to science," not that average temperature merely varied from year to year while returning to a steady mean.
Smoothing is entirely appropriate, and "granularity" isn't going to change the obvious conclusion.
Re:I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:5, Informative)
If we decided tomorrow to stop using oil
Nobody is saying stop all the pumps tommorow but a decades long plan.
The earth, for 90% of its history, had a warmer temperature than we experience now.
Human beings have been on the earth for 300k years, out of 4B for the earth, so 0.007% and industrialized society is what, 150 years? This is meaningless without context.
Dansgaard-Oeschger
So let me get this straight, you take a pretty complex and even in the article, debatable theory of a climate phenomenon and use that as a reasonable alternative. That could be true, do you have any climate scientists (like the ones who discovered and documented your defense here) who say the period of warming is in fact that phenomenon? Do we trust climatologists on the climate or don't we? Or just the things we already agree with?
That phenomenon came from ice core data, is this other ice core data that is purported to show a higher co2 concentration than we have had in 800k years which is many, many of those proposed warming cycles, is this data wrong now?
Ice cores and climate change [bas.ac.uk]
Ice cores provide direct information about how greenhouse gas concentrations have changed in the past, and they also provide direct evidence that the climate can change abruptly under some circumstances. However, they provide no direct analogue for the future because the ice core era contains no periods with concentrations of CO2 comparable to those of the next century.
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Differences in opinion on what to do is an acceptable thing, that means the parties involved do agree that the thing is in fact happening (the Earth is warming beyond what we know of as natural phenonemon) and we have some concesnsus on the cause (industrial society releasing new and large amounts of gasses into the atmosphere).
People arguing about the latter are are not helping us from having any solutions for the former. I am a proponent of nuclear energy but even if i lost that argument to renewable ene
Re:I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:4, Insightful)
It was hiding the problem. Shipping is one of the worst CO2 industries. That it also polluted with particulates that happened to have a short term mitigative effect isn't an answer. The heat we're seeing was coming within just a few years/decade or two anyway.
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It was hiding the problem. Shipping is one of the worst CO2 industries.
Not it's definitely not "one of the worst", in GHG terms at least: https://ourworldindata.org/ghg... [ourworldindata.org]
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Re:I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly, and this is why so many economists support carbon taxes, it lets you do just that.
https://www.econstatement.org/ [econstatement.org]
Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:2)
Shipping is the single most efficient form of transport. You release more CO2 driving down to the store than was spend shipping the goods from China
Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:4, Informative)
"It could be worse" is a hell of an argument against disaster.
Not arguing it's more efficient. It's still a significant source of CO2 and Methane emissions.
35% of current shipping volume is literally just moving fossil fuels around.
source: the shipping industry - https://www.ics-shipping.org/r... [ics-shipping.org]
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What is the cost to adopt to a warmer climate?
Coastal cities will require either abandonment of infrastructure due to rising sea levels, or expensive mitigation. In practice, probably both will happen.
We'll see farming being no able to be profitably done in many areas, and will require new farms to be developed in areas where the climate is now more adaptable. That is going to be costly and disruptive as well.
We'll see massive migrations of people, both internally and internationally, as some areas decli
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The cost to adapt is far far cheaper than not doing so.
It's also ridiculously expensive. Something on the order of 6-10 trillion to fully electrify the worlds power systems. Something like 40 trillion if we continue using fossil fuels. Both are probably wildly low estimates.
No good answers but there are really really bad ones (that we're currently choosing by not doing anything significant)
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The farming side is a problem. Former tundra/permafrost isn't productive soil and won't be for centuries.
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Ohh for fucks sake enough with the political drumbeating. Climate change is here to stay, and no country alone is responsible. Lets start with a few hard facts: 1. There are too many of us on earth to stop using carbon-based fuels. If we decided tomorrow to stop using oil etc, most of us, like greater than 90% would starve in very short order. We just would. There is no amount of fuel we can stop using to avert that to make any real difference in the outcome of man-influenced climate change.
That's one way to slow human influence on climate change. I like it, even though I'm very likely to be one of the 90%! That's two birds with one stone, if you ask me.
2. The earth, for 90% of its history, had a warmer temperature than we experience now. We are exiting an ice age, and ice ages are geologically speaking; rare. For most of earth's history, a forest grew on Antartica. Civilization happened to develop when the earth was relatively cold. To expect it to stay that way is foolish. We know better.
While this is true, expect a righteous swatting from the know it all crowd over saying it. For some reason, factual dissent is considered an attack by the climate screamers.
3. Mankind is likely speeding up a process already underway, but sudden shifts in the earth's climate are not unknown to science. Look up Dansgaard-Oeschger [wikipedia.org] events. They have similar patterns, where the earth warmed up dramatically over a few decades especially in the northern hemisphere, followed by a gradual cooling.
This is the one that's really hard for folks to swallow that haven't spent a ton of time researching on their own. Lots of humans seem to have this weird concept that the Ea
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A great start would be to stop creating heat islands. Nowadays, where I live in Florida, it feels 10-20 degrees hotter than the actual temperature. You can physically feel the heat radiating from the concrete and asphalt. It wasn’t like this 10 years ago. Back then, driving from downtown to my condo was about 5 degrees cooler because it was surrounded by trees. Now, it’s all roads, highways, and commercial buildings like IKEA, with hardly any forest or trees left. This drastic change in landscape has significantly contributed to the increased heat.
I can only agree on this one. And a massive contributor to this sort of thing in my part of the country is the fact that we can't do hardly anything without driving our cars there. Here in flyover land, you have to have a car. And cars apparently melt down if you take them off concrete or asphalt. So anywhere there's a building for gathering there is a MASSIVE slab of concrete or asphalt next to it. And sometimes it seems we go out of our way to do the same to entire towns and cities. Granted, grass is a pa
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Sort of like trying to 'adapt' to the sudden ground impact of a 10 story fall.
This change isn't normal or at all shown in history. Massively faster than anything in history beyond say Chicxulub scale events.
"But it helped mammals!" - you probably.
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From your link:
"D-O events are also believed to cause minor increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations on the order of around 5 ppm"
FIVE ppm.
We're currently over 100 ppm increase in just my lifetime of 5 decades. Clear evidence this is not a D-O event.
The problem is your ilk used to say it wasn't happening at all. Now that it's obviously happening it's "well it's happened before".
Same with whether humans are responsible. There is absolutely clear evidence we are the majority of added effect
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For most of earth's history, a forest grew on Antartica.
Are you aware the continents move?
Apparently not.
Look up this thing called "continental drift". It's interesting.
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A team from the UK and Germany discovered forest soil from the Cretaceous period within 900 km of the South Pole. Their analysis of the preserved roots, pollen and spores shows that the world at that time was a lot warmer than previously thought.
And:
Co-author Professor Tina van de Flierdt, from the Department of Earth Science & Engineering at Imperial, said: The preservation of this 90-million-year-old forest is exceptional, but even more surprising is the world it reveals. Even during months of darkness, swampy temperate rainforests were able to grow close to the South Pole, revealing an even warmer climate than we expected.
Citation: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/new... [imperial.ac.uk].
Now go sit in a corner for being cheeky while stupid.
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Naturally this ignores that the single worst greenhouse gas is methane, and the single worst offender for methane emissions is the oil industry. If they properly capped wells and managed the process of extracting oil a significant reduction would be achieved, this could happen very fast. Since the oil industry owns most governments however, they will not be forced to clean-up this process. In reality they could do it, but it would indeed hurt their profits, we'd still produce and use oil in the all the ways
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"CO2 and methane need to be the priority"
Ok, so go after the significant emitters of those? like shipping fuel...
The fuse of CO2/methane heating has been lit for decades, a minor reduction in cloud cover isn't the cause, it's a symptom. The heat waves are coming regardless.
Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:3, Insightful)
They caused container ships to take the long route south of Africa. Not exactly helping
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Wait you're saying 'fortnite_beast' isn't a trustworthy source of factual analysis?
Re: I have no idea why this is happening .... (Score:2)
Yeah pretty sure carrying everything twice as far is the opposite of helping.
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"was a 'fascist' position throughout the 20th Century"
FTFY
still is. It's just that the Dems kicked them out and the GOP welcomed them in.
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Found the troll!
oh right /.
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Yes but (Score:4, Funny)
One place in the country has been below average, checkmate environmentalists!
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Also, it's just a fluke.
When it's hotter, then "it's just weather, not climate" . On the other hand if it ever manages to snow "see, the climate is getting colder, not warmer!"
Not records here but... (Score:5, Insightful)
And yes, the use of Bunker fuel temporarily held off the increases, and no, resorting to purposely harming the earth by returning to its use is not a fix. It will make things worse in the end.
We shoulda listened to the people who said this was going to happen a long, long time ago. But we didn't and now we have to put up with what we all caused.
Best bet now is to go as green as possible, and encourage people and companies to stop de-sequestering carbon. But this is still going to be painful.
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"and now we have to put up with what we all caused"
I hereby decline this description for myself, and for most other Gen Xers and anyone born afterward. Have we technically contributed? Sure. But we were born into a solidly established system that made *anything* we did a Sophie's choice. And a lot of us have tried to tilt at these windmills only to be given a dozen excuses why it's unnecessary or not helpful, or outright denial of the problem, by the stupid old farts that chose convenience and profit over w
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"and now we have to put up with what we all caused"
I hereby decline this description for myself, and for most other Gen Xers and anyone born afterward.
You have the advantage that you are not responsible for anything. Which is damn nice. That sounds sarcastic, but I find that there are some generations who are blameless in all matters
Those olde fartes you demean. The boomers who are responsible for all problems? There is a problem with that. We didn't start it.
The silent generation and greatest generation did. We boomers came up with the EPA, Created the pollution standards, and marched for a whole of things that GenXers and millennials think were so
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Here in PA, We've had 2 heat waves already, and night temperatures often don't go below 77F (25C) this spring and summer.
Subtropical climates aren't so bad. Look at Florida: grow corn and strawberries in the winter and mangoes in the summer.
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Here in PA, We've had 2 heat waves already, and night temperatures often don't go below 77F (25C) this spring and summer.
Subtropical climates aren't so bad. Look at Florida: grow corn and strawberries in the winter and mangoes in the summer.
And it grows Florida man and Florida woman. I can handle Florida in the Winter - before they decided to model themselves on mid 1920's Italy. Spent about 20 K there. That money goes elsewhere now.
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Best bet now is to go as green as possible, and encourage people and companies to stop de-sequestering carbon. But this is still going to be painful.
Indeed. But far too many people are still not listening and are deep in denial. Hence things will continue be made worse. Especially as there is no quick payoff. We are currently basically deciding whether human civilization will survive and we may be deciding in the next couple of decades whether the human race will survive. That will actually be something that takes 100-200 years to happen, but it does not look good.
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Best bet now is to go as green as possible, and encourage people and companies to stop de-sequestering carbon. But this is still going to be painful.
Indeed. But far too many people are still not listening and are deep in denial. Hence things will continue be made worse. Especially as there is no quick payoff. We are currently basically deciding whether human civilization will survive and we may be deciding in the next couple of decades whether the human race will survive. That will actually be something that takes 100-200 years to happen, but it does not look good.
One big problem is that third world countries want to be exempt, or demand tribute to reduce their emissions. India demands 2.5 trillion USD, to start reducing emissions. China doesn't plan to start until 2030. https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_c... [ballotpedia.org]
Are we going to go extinct? Probably not, unless we star nuking each other over climate refugees. While the hotter temps will cause more rain, it will not be distributed like it is today. So there will be people without enough water. As well, the breadbasket countr
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One big problem is that third world countries want to be exempt,
Basically almost everybody tries to get around doing anything effective. And that is why the human race, as a whole, is to immature to deal with this crisis. Hopefully a large enough fragment of civilization will survive and learn from this, but it will be on a much less nice planet if it happens. But remember 3 of 4 "homo something" are already extinct and climate played a major role in that. Hence losing the last one is really not that unthinkable.
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We sent USD $175B to fund a proxy war. $175 billion towards tree planting could result in planting around 58.3 billion trees, which could absorb approximately 1.3 billion metric tons of CO2 in 5 years and around 5.3 billion metric tons in 10 years. 1.3 billion metric tons is approximately 3.6% of one year's global emissions, and 5.3 billion metric tons is about 14.6% of one year's emissions. I'm not too worried about climate change, personally, but I do think that would have been a better use of the money because I'm definitely anti-war.
Trees are carbon neutral. As soon as a tree dies, it starts releasing it's carbon to the atmosphere. Now planting trees is always a good thing, but they do not sequester CO2. They just make an extra step in re-releasing it.
Otherwise claiming that we'd rather fight a proxy war is a non-sequitur.
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Otherwise claiming that we'd rather fight a proxy war is a non-sequitur.
Oh, I'm not saying it's either/or. I'm just saying we spend eye watering sums on money on things that might not give us the best return. I'm not actually all that fired up about solving climate change. I'd rather tackle land/sea/air pollution with toxic chemicals as a hig
Las Vegas is nice and toasty (Score:2)
I was in Vegas one time (in July no less) and the one thing I quickly learned is never touch exposed metal on days like this.
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I haven't been too ensued watching what's been taking place. As I've said to a few people I work with, to me it seems Vegas is trying too hard. If they would just stick with gambling and shows, it would be something to visit more often.
Not to mention they charge for parking. The last thing which was free and they had to take it away.
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If they would just stick with gambling and shows, it would be something to visit more often.
Since when has Vegas been big on anything else (unless you're referring to drinking but that's always been a thing there as well)?
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I'd still take Vegas as-is over the John Denver Experience.
I regret that I now know there is something called "The John Denver Experience."
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I was just reading about his experimental plane the other day. Whoever built it installed the fuel gauge and tank change over valve BEHIND the pilots seat. The valve itself was so difficult to turn it needed vise grips and he used a mirror to look behind at the fuel gauge. Holy shit. Plus he was flying illegally because the FAA pulled his license over some previous DUIs. Still a good musician though.
Runaway started? Or El Nino's end? (Score:5, Informative)
Here is some anecdotal data from my backyard weather station (Southern Ontario, Canada). ...
Absolute values are irrelevant, but it is the comparative values that matter. Same sensor, same placement
2022: highest was 33.9C in June, with 17 days above 30C (2 in May, 6 in June, 6 in July, 2 in August, and 1 in September.
2023: highest was 33.4C in September, and 11 days above 30C (2 in May, 2 in June, 4 in July, none in August, and 3 in September.
2024: already got 35.2C in June, and 13 days already above 30C (1 in May, 8 in June, and 4 so far in July), with 2.5 months to go for the A/C season.
El Nino did end a month or so ago, and an El Nina pattern has been detected.
We will know later in the year if that translates into some cooling compared to the past 12 to 18 months.
If records continue to be broken, then my guess is that we started on the runaway warming phase ...
I hope I am wrong above this ...
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One day of extreme heat (or cold) in one place means nothing.
But when you have planet-wide averages for each month in the past 12 to 18 months breaking previous temperature records, you have a global trend.
And neither solar activity, nor sunspots [skepticalscience.com] contribute to global warming (short version here [skepticalscience.com]).
Not just the US (Score:2)
It's warm (Score:2)
On the central coast of California. Homes and businesses here do not have heating or cooling (literally -neither my house or my business has anything). We open or close the window to regulate temperature. Warm in the sun with a cool ocean breeze, overnight fog. Typically 50s to 60s(12-21c) in the summer, 40s to 50s (6-13c) with rain in the winter, maybe it hits 80s (28c) in August.
This morning the water from the cold tap was above body temp. I had a nice warm all cold shower.
It’s hot. (Score:2)
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Well, sig checks out.
Re: Heat now exceeds cold for deaths. (Score:2)
Are you saying that humans can be harvested like batteries in The Matrix?
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No, I'm saying that the planet capturing more heat from the sun, means that there's more energy we can mine to run our AC, to deal with the fact we're capturing more heat from the sun.
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Or the bigger the difference between the air and the 50' ground loop hose.
Thermodynamics [Re: Heat now exceeds cold for...] (Score:2)
No, I'm saying that the planet capturing more heat from the sun,
The planet is not capturing more heat from the sun. The greenhouse effect is that the heat captured from the sun is being radiated away more slowly, resulting in the planet heating up.
means that there's more energy we can mine to run our AC,
That's not the way the laws of thermodynamics work, sorry. The laws of thermodynamics say that to generate usable energy from heat, you need a hot side and a cold side of the thermodynamic cycle. We are now heating up the "cold" side.
to deal with the fact we're capturing more heat from the sun.
We're not capturing more heat from the sun.
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The planet is not capturing more heat from the sun. The greenhouse effect is that the heat captured from the sun is being radiated away more slowly, resulting in the planet heating up.
This sentence makes me wonder if you understand the word capture. As in more heat staying than going, due to it being radiated away more slowly.
That's not the way the laws of thermodynamics work, sorry. The laws of thermodynamics say that to generate usable energy from heat, you need a hot side and a cold side of the thermod
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There's plenty of temperature differential if you drill down 100 meters.
Re: Heat now exceeds cold for deaths. (Score:2)
Industrial sized heat pump connected to solar, dump the heat underground?
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Or even better yet, industrial sized heat pump running a sterling engine connected to a deep well, dumping the heat underground and outputting more energy than it is using.
Re: Heat now exceeds cold for deaths. (Score:2)
No, heat cannot be used to produce energy in itself. Heat DIFFERENTIALS can, but AGW and the sun are both heating both sides of whatever we would have a differential across, so it's not actually providing any opportunities. Also, you wind up heating the cold thing, and the only convenient big cold thing we have is the ocean, which is already getting inconveniently hot. You could sink heat into the ground, but it will tend to come back out again. It is actually a thing that we do, but it only works over rela
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Re: K got it (Score:3)
Buy a motorcycle and get free snacks on the go!
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No one knows more about gays than a conspicuously-overtly straight white Christian male.
Fixed for accuracy.
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If you want to eat crickets it's cool with me, If you don't want to eat crickets that's cool too. I honestly don't care what other people choose to eat.
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^ Scientific data downvoted "troll."
Speaks for itself. Slashdot is a marxist sewer filled with America-last science-hating liars. Probably why nobody visits this site any more.
Downvote this one too. I've got karma forever.
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First, you are using an outlier that happened during the dust bowl I believe as the base for comparison rather than using the mean temperature for that period.
Second, the data simply shows the average high value for each month, not the overall average temperature for each month. Again, you're trying to compare just the outliers.
Third - you made no attempt to explain anything, just threw out some data (well, a link
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Second, the data simply shows the average high value for each month, not the overall average temperature for each month. Again, you're trying to compare just the outliers.
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/acce... [noaa.gov]
In only two years out of the last 91 did the average temperature exceed the same reading in 1933. Further, in only five (excluding 1933) did it exceed 1918.
you made no attempt to explain anything, just threw out some data (well, a link) and pretend that ends the debate.
I wrote a factual conclusion and provided the scientific data to back it up.
change it from Maximum temperature to Average temperature
See above.
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https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/acce... [noaa.gov]
and one.
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This isn't reddit
Citation needed.
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No, you said "Source: National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration" with nothing to back it up.
I look up the NWS average temperature data
https://www.weather.gov/media/... [weather.gov]
1933: 50.5
1934: 55.3
2020: 55.7
2021: 56.3
2022: 55.9
2022: 55.6
Where is the NOAA data that shows what you say?
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https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/acce... [noaa.gov]
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You know what, you got me, I didn't read because I should have noticed it was the *maximum* temp for the *contiguous united states* which is one stat in one region of the world, so apologies for not reading clearlt.
However the NOAA also states the average temp is rising worldwide and that 2023 was the warmest on record, is this also to be believed from the same people and the same data?
https://www.climate.gov/news-f... [climate.gov].
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Yeah and operate the vehicles like they are race cars. Then complain that fuel prices are too high...