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To Avoid Sea Level Rise, Some Researchers Propose Barriers Around the World's Vulnerable Glaciers (science.org) 57

Posted by EditorDavid from the song-of-ice-and-fire dept.
"Researchers are proposing a new way to battle the effects of climate change..." writes Science magazine: slowing the rising of sea levels with "glacial geoengineering". (That is, "building flexible barriers around them or drilling deep into them to slow their slippage into the sea.") Geoengineering proponents say it would be better to begin research now on how to staunch sea level rise at its source, rather than spending billions and billions of dollars to wall off coastal cities. "At some point you have to think, 'Well, is there anything else we can do?'" asks glaciologist John Moore of the University of Lapland, an author on the white paper, which was sponsored by the University of Chicago. One idea researched by Moore and covered in the report is to build buoyant "curtains," moored to the sea floor beyond the edge of ice shelves and glaciers, to block natural currents of warm water that erode ice sheets from below. (Especially in Antarctica, warming ocean water is a bigger threat to glaciers than warming air.)

Early designs called for plastic, but natural fibers such as canvas and sisal are now being considered to avoid pollution concerns. According to the white paper, initial modeling studies show that curtain heights stretching only partway up from the sea floor off the coast of western Antarctica could reduce glacial melting by a factor of 10 in some locations. Another intervention some scientists are contemplating would slow the slippage of ice sheets by drilling holes to their bases and pumping out water or heat.

Such massive engineering efforts would surely be some of the most expensive ever undertaken by humanity. At a workshop at the University of Chicago in October 2023, researchers suggested it might cost $88 billion to build 80 kilometers of curtains around Antarctic glaciers. Interventions would also require international political support, which some glaciologists view as an even bigger hurdle than the price tag. Twila Moon, a glaciologist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center, says such projects would require fleets of icebreakers, extensive shipping and supply chain needs, and significant personnel to construct, maintain, and guard the final structures — in ocean conditions she calls "eye-poppingly difficult." The projects could also incur unintended consequences, potentially disrupting ocean circulation patterns or endangering wildlife. Furthermore, it would take decades to find out whether the interventions were working.

Even if the engineering and logistics were possible, that "does not answer the question of whether it should be pursued," says Moon, who opposes even preliminary studies on the concepts.
"The report, which also stresses the importance of emissions reductions, takes pains to say it 'does not advocate for intervention; rather, it advocates for research into whether any interventions may be viable'..."
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To Avoid Sea Level Rise, Some Researchers Propose Barriers Around the World's Vulnerable Glaciers More

To Avoid Sea Level Rise, Some Researchers Propose Barriers Around the World's Vulnerable Glaciers

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  • Thank you Slashdot (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mspangler ( 770054 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:23PM (#64625181)

    For the funny of the day.

    "such projects would require fleets of icebreakers, extensive shipping and supply chain needs, and significant personnel to construct, maintain, and guard the final structures — in ocean conditions she calls "eye-poppingly difficult.""

    All of which require the emission of more CO2, not to mention the vast amount of fiber to be produced, (more CO2) turned into nets (more CO2) and that will soon rot (CO2 neutral) and require replacement.

    Then of course someone will be offended by cubic miles of rotting sisal in pristine ocean waters.

    • You could fund it easily by selling advertising space. Think of what your average sports stadium looks like.

    • What's even more facepalmy is the notion that you could make flexible barriers or spikes strong enough to slow them down. Clearly, the authors have never been to Yosemite.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Thing is, we are going to have to deal with climate change, and it has already cost way more than the $88 billion that they think this will set us back. Maybe it needs some clever engineering, maybe it's not feasible, but ultimately we are going to have do some major geo-engineering projects this century to mitigate the effects we created, one way or another.

      This is an area of technology that would benefit from investment, even if it doesn't turn out to be viable for this specific use. Deep water wind turbi

  • Idiots (Score:5, Funny)

    by betsuin ( 5812894 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:27PM (#64625191)
    "Hey, let's put a big bandaid on it!"
    What a fucking stupid idea.

    • "Hey, let's put a big bandaid on it!"

      What a fucking stupid idea.

      The Netherlands disagrees. To be clear not that this idea isn't stupid. It's unworkable in its scale, but the reality is geo-engineering is not a bandaid, it is something that can be actively done and sustained for a population. 2.6 million people in there live below sea level in a country that borders the sea. Food for thought.

  • Gorath (Score:3)

    by at10u8 ( 179705 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:41PM (#64625211)
    I have seen a variation of this movie [wikizilla.org]

  • Then we can spend money on building new cities, it'll be a great economic boost all around.

    Might even use less CO2 then this will.

  • The idea is to, every so often, drop a giant ice cube into the ocean [imdb.com] - thus solving global warming forever!

    The only part of the problem yet to solve is how to mine ice from Halley's Comet and return it to earth.

    • The idea is to, every so often, drop a giant ice cube into the ocean [imdb.com] - thus solving global warming forever!

      The only part of the problem yet to solve is how to mine ice from Halley's Comet and return it to earth.

      We don't need to mine Halley's comet, we could simply throw the glaciers in the ocean... I'm waiting for my Nobel prize.

  • Flat Earth (Score:4, Funny)

    by Arzaboa ( 2804779 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:01PM (#64625243)

    This is really impressive.

    These guys took an idea from the Flat Earth brainiacs, "Antarctica is surrounded by a giant wall", and have turned it into a paper.

    --
    Science has not yet taught us if madness is or is not the sublimity of the intelligence. - Edgar Allan Poe

  • Install thermosyphons [conocophillips.com].

  • If the end goal is to reduce the sea level, we should contact the Visitors and have them siphon off a few billion gallons of sea water. Problem solved!

  • 3 step plan for obtaining gold (Score:4, Funny)

    by david.emery ( 127135 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:19PM (#64625321)

    1. Purchase a lead mine
    2. Mine lots of lead
    3. Convert lead to gold.

    Management reports that the initial capital investment was able to purchase the mine, step 1 is complete. Step 2 is ongoing and we are meeting our quarterly targets for lead. We're still working on Step 3, so more capital is needed.

    • you forgot step 2a. Sell futures in the project and get the hell out of town

    • 1. Purchase a lead mine 2. Mine lots of lead 3. Convert lead to gold.

      Management reports that the initial capital investment was able to purchase the mine, step 1 is complete. Step 2 is ongoing and we are meeting our quarterly targets for lead. We're still working on Step 3, so more capital is needed.

      It's been possible to convert lead to gold for a few decades now. The problem is that it's ruinously expensive to obtain a pitiful amount of gold. Source: https://www.scientificamerican... [scientificamerican.com]

  • Don't try and mess with the ocean currents, that's just craziness. The curtains might block warm currents to the glacier, but where will those currents go instead? What happens if the curtain breaks or is damaged. Increasing friction at the bottom of the glacier seems more likely to have a chance.

  • The same people have been predicting the same " the sea levels will rise " bullshit for at LEAST my entire lifetime which goes back five plus decades.

    I literally live on the coast and, I can assure you, despite the " The end is nigh " rhetoric, those sea levels haven't moved one inch during the aforementioned time period. Given the doomsayers track record of predicting the End of the World over the past few thousand years, I don't really lose a lot of sleep at night when they continue to peddle this stuff.

    • Re:Okay, I'm gonna be that guy (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pixelpusher220 ( 529617 ) on Sunday July 14, 2024 @11:02PM (#64625579)

      Uh, we have these things called satellites that measure rise. It's happening. It's *increasing* in the rate at which it's happening.

      Which coast? we can give you to the millimeter rise per year...

    • Here's your sign.

    • The same people have been predicting the same " the sea levels will rise " bullshit for at LEAST my entire lifetime which goes back five plus decades.

      I literally live on the coast and, I can assure you, despite the " The end is nigh " rhetoric, those sea levels haven't moved one inch during the aforementioned time period. Given the doomsayers track record of predicting the End of the World over the past few thousand years, I don't really lose a lot of sleep at night when they continue to peddle this stuff.

      Go "peddle" your denialist, unscientific, anecdotal bullshit to island dwellers in the Pacific: https://theconversation.com/se... [theconversation.com]

      The disappearance of some islands has been well documented, as has the loss of surface area of many others. I don't care that you don't "lose a lot of sleep at night"; but kindly stop selling casual anecdote from an untrained observer - aka 'nehumanuscrede' - as fact.

  • It really has fallen a long way, hasn't it, if this obvious nonsense VC bait is considered "science"?

    Let's see now. Just one of these inane enterprises has been estimated to cost $88 billion - and if will in practice, of course, be at least ten times that expensive because Capitalism - for just 80km of "curtains" to merely slow things down, but in so doing release vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere from all the resource mining, manufacturing, ships and other construction equipment.

    Or - and, hey, h

  • $80B for 80 km, that a million bucks per metre. Also I wonder what the unintended consequences will be?

  • Sounds like someone wants to get rich on trillions in R&D trying to build a wall before the project fails spectacularly.

    Wouldn't it be easier to just refreeze the glaciers?

    I know....

    Quick! Everyone buy a couple bags of ice and meet up at the nearest glacier. BYOB!

  • Cool! The glaciers will make their own moats! Which will surely inspire some new fast food trends.

  • Just use massive Air Conditioner units! just build a few massive units, and cool the air directly... boom, your problem is solved.. if we use the water flow from the glaciers for power, we can build closer to the glaciers.

    Can i get interviewed for Science magazine now?

  • If that melts, it increases sea level by 7 meters alone.

  • The lengths our species will go to in order to avoid discussing the only practical solution to envirnental destruction - fewer dumb humans.

    We belong dead.

  • It's slightly more feasible. We could train seals to remove the snow from the foil.
  • Engineering go us into this so it can get us out, right?
  • So instead of a gradual rise that coastal dwellers can manage and adapt to over years, they are going to risk a catastrophic instant failure with massive sudden flooding?

  • Relative to the problem, $88 billion seems like a perfectly reasonable investment. And as geoengineering solutions goes, it seems like a pretty mundane project with less risk than oh, say, seeding the oceans with iron... Let's do that.

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