UK Considering Making USB-C the Common Charging Standard, Following the EU (neowin.net) 167
Following moves by both the European Union and India to implement USB-C as the default charging port for all consumer devices, the British government has now begun a consultation on whether it should follow suit and implement a common standard for charging, and if this should be USB-C. From a report: The consultation has been started by the Office for Product Safety and Standards which sits within the Department for Business and Trade, and it calls for manufacturers, importers, distributors, and trade associations to provide their input on the matter. Of course, should the UK decide against adopting USB-C and implement a separate standard, expect that device manufacturers just provide dongles to support this rather than having unique device versions.
The Office for Product Safety and Standards stated the following on this topic: "We consider that it would potentially help businesses and deliver consumer and environmental benefits if we were to introduce standardized requirements for chargers for certain portable electrical/electronic devices across the whole UK. We are seeking views from manufacturers, importers, distributors, and trade associations as to whether it would be helpful to do so and, if so, whether this should be based on USB-C â" as adopted by the EU."
The Office for Product Safety and Standards stated the following on this topic: "We consider that it would potentially help businesses and deliver consumer and environmental benefits if we were to introduce standardized requirements for chargers for certain portable electrical/electronic devices across the whole UK. We are seeking views from manufacturers, importers, distributors, and trade associations as to whether it would be helpful to do so and, if so, whether this should be based on USB-C â" as adopted by the EU."
so much for brexit (Score:5, Funny)
/duck
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It's a wise move to follow the EU on setting the same standard, however this is just another UK bureaucratic group that will spend many thousands of pounds of UK tax payers money on a useless deliberation to make themselves look i9mportant. Then come up we shall implement USB-C after walking away with pockets filled with cash
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What happens when something better than USB-C evolves? Will this hold development back? Understandably, it’s probably 10yrs off, but still.
Re: so much for brexit (Score:2)
What about it? Standardisation even if only for a decade can only be a good thing.
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Would you pass up on a nice car because next year's model might be better?
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That would depend on the changes. Remember in the late 90s telling people to wait before buying a new PC because something new was coming out? Damn that Moores Law. Then there was the whole ISA, EISA, VESA LocalBus, PCI, PCI-X, PCIe tailwind.
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You forgot AGP.
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Who said that? the best advice was to buy a mid range PC top of the line where hideously expensive, and didn't stay that way for long, you upgrade in later if needed, if you needed a PC you should get one.
Not buying one now, because a better one is coming was as silly idea because for the foreseeable you would not be buying a PC.
Re:so much for brexit (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I buy an Osborne when the Osborne 2 is about to come out?
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What happens when something better than USB-C evolves? Will this hold development back? Understandably, it’s probably 10yrs off, but still.
I'm not worried, personally. Consider the lifespan of USB-A.
While there are many USB-C only computers today, USB-A is still actively being built into a sizeable number of computers, 28 years after its introduction, and will likely be readily available for some time.
The USB-C physical spec was ratified in 2014, meaning that even if USB-A was added to the bin with parallel and DVI ports tomorrow, a 28-year lifespan would see it in active use in 2042.
I sincerely doubt we'll be worried about the fact that USB-C
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so that devices won't have their longevity mitigated by a broken charging port.
This is thankfully already happening thanks to USB-C, both my thinkpads have 2x USB-C ports, both of which can charge and that seems to be becoming something of standard for laptops under 100W
Of course I'd prefer the universe where Apple doesn't lock up MagSafe and everybodies laptops charge with that but alas, still better than the mess of figuring out which DC brick fits which machine.
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so that devices won't have their longevity mitigated by a broken charging port.
This is thankfully already happening thanks to USB-C, both my thinkpads have 2x USB-C ports, both of which can charge and that seems to be becoming something of standard for laptops under 100W
Of course I'd prefer the universe where Apple doesn't lock up MagSafe and everybodies laptops charge with that but alas, still better than the mess of figuring out which DC brick fits which machine.
I'd like that better, too, but I like the way this is effectively forcing USB-C ports on everything, which for non-charging purposes, is a huge win. And even for charging, I'm glad that my Mac *can* charge by USB-C, even though I prefer to charge from MagSafe when it is available, because it isn't always available.
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is the USB-C port capped at 45W? my laptop is alienware so it has a 120W power supply and a big barrel connector for charging. Its about 3yrs old so the only usb-C is in the back (technically Thunderbolt 3)
Re: so much for brexit (Score:3)
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USB-PD goes up to 240W now. The limits are 3A, any voltage for any cable without an e-marker chip. Cables with an e-marker chip allow up to 5A.
This means the voltage is what changes - 100W is 20V at 5A, or 60W without e-marker. 240W is 48V at 5A.
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What happens when something better than USB-C evolves? Will this hold development back? Understandably, it’s probably 10yrs off, but still.
They agree and make it the new standard?
Re: so much for brexit (Score:2)
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It is a connector, it is not as if revolutionary ideas come out every year in this field. We are at the point where standardization is more valuable than progress, and that's the reason the EU legislation exists.
Initially, they kindly asked manufacturers to work together on a standard, and it was rather successful, as most smartphone manufacturers settled on micro-USB, which vastly improved the situation from before, and other electronic manufacturers followed. Then USB-C came out, supporting even more use
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It will happen. We moved from MicroUSB to USB-C pretty easily.
Overall, the EU stuff has been a great boon, reducing the number of USB cables to just MicroUSB, USB-C, and good ol' Lightning.
Before the EU suggested companies move to just a few cables, it sucked. Want to find a charger for your model of phone? Good luck. You would have to special order it, or try your luck versus barrel, edge, square, 30 pin (think iPhone 4 and older), and connectors of different sizes, pinouts, polarities and voltages. T
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I have been wondering the same, ever since the EU requirements were being discussed.
Unfortunately the EU directive does not have a sunset clause / check what the industry says every X years clause.
I imagine the UK requirements will be similar :(
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That's actually a good question. The EU rules have regular reviews and if something better does come along it can be adopted. But then what will the UK do?
If we don't draft the law to basiclly say "do whatever the EU says", we could end up in a situation where the EU allows a new connector and the UK is stuck with the old one, unable to get the latest devices because they were built for the much larger EU market. Or paying extra for a UK version, or having to deal with dongles.
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It's lasted a few USB revisions already, being used for USB 4 and USB 5/Thunderbolt as well. All of which have increased speeds without doing what USB3 did and hacked in a bunch of new pins.
Plus, it's fixed a few USB flaws such as being able to go in either way as well as the general nastiness of multiple connectors on both ends.
LIghtning was created in the era
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Which computers? You can replace them even on MacBooks. Yes, you have soldered RAM, SSDs and everything (if even discrete components at all) but the USB-C ports are on a small separated PCB.
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Which machines have you seen USB-C charging daughterboards on?
I've had to scrap a good 10+ Lenovo Thinkpads because the on-motherboard sole USB-C port has failed - and I sent back a good 20+ for warranty repairs in the 3 year warranty period (out of about 100 units in total - a 30% failure rate!). As the sole USB-C power port is connected directly to the motherboard, when it wears out - the board needs replacing. Good luck trying to solder on a new USB-C connector - the traces are so tiny you'd need speci
Re: so much for brexit (Score:3)
The USB-C connectors wears out too fast. People at work suffers this problem and have to replace their computers prematurely since it's on the motherboard.
My solution is magnetic dongles. They work on most things, and where they don't I just use a straight cable carefully. https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuKA... [aliexpress.com]
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The USB-C connectors wears out too fast.
People at work suffers this problem and have to replace their computers prematurely since it's on the motherboard.
My solution is magnetic dongles. They work on most things, and where they don't I just use a straight cable carefully.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuKA... [aliexpress.com]
Your solution looks lustfully ideal! Thank you! I've always been jealous of MacBooks with magnetic power adapters that can break away without any damage, (but not jealous enough to pay an Apple tax, especially since I use Linux).
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Nope, the docking station connects with USB-C to the computer, so that's not a solution.
Unfortunately I can't decide on the computers to select.
Re: so much for brexit (Score:2)
Indeed. Completely pointless me-too gesture politics that will just waste more taxpayer money.
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Brexit. - You again. Just leave it you loser.
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Did you think that response up all on your own or did mummy help?
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Re:so much for brexit (Score:4, Informative)
No ducking! It's a genuinely reasonable (if sarcastic) comment.
The UK is ultimately going to end up following the EU's lead because as big an economy as the UK has... it's about 1/6th that of the EU. (And god knows how much of it is based on Russian oligarch money)
Whenever the UK deviates from EU standards, they're hurting themselves a lot more than the EU for anything that crosses borders.
Re:so much for brexit (Score:4, Informative)
Frankly, I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is other than keeping some civil servants in steady employ. Do nothing, and we'll almost certainly just get the same tech products as the EU complete with USB-C anyway, or do we have enough homegrown electronics stuff that doesn't get exported to the EU to make this worthwhile? Raspberry Pis, perhaps, but the 4 is already USB-C powered, is it not?
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EU already picked USB-C. After Brexiting, it should be mandated that UK should pick a different one now. I recommend Lightning, just to make things interesting
Re: so much for brexit (Score:2)
The lightning connector on my iPhone is flaking out now. I wiggle the phone and it loses connection momentarily. I plug it into my PC with a USB-C to lightning cable. The type C end still works great, both the plug and the port. So much for the supposed superiority of lightning...
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That's usually dirt caked up in the top of the port in the device. It happens to me every six months or so. I have to get a thin pin and carefully break up the dirt, and then the connector works fine.
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Have you tried fishing out the lint using a toothpick? You'll be surprised how much lint and muck can get in there.
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I haven't, but it's possibly worth noting that I don't actually carry this phone, so it never lives in my pocket. I work remote four days, once a week the phone goes into my laptop bag on the way to work, and on the way back. I just tried a toothpick and got nothing at all.
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/duck
Nothing to do with the EU or Brexit. The USB standard originated in the USA.
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The USB-C standard may have originated in the USA, but what originated in the EU is this notion that the government of a major world economy should force everyone within their reach to use a particular charging port on their personal electronic devices. Sounds like the UK is on track to affirm both the US charging standard and the EU proclivity for sweeping regulation. I can see how Brexiteers might take offense.
Not that I have much sympathy for the Brexiteers. The economic reality is that the UK is freq
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so much for brexit
But the UK USB C connector will be better than the weak European one! It will still have the standard USB C port, but will also add a big rectangular earth pin [wikipedia.org] above to guarantee strong grounding.
the essence of brexit (Score:2)
The UK still wants to interoperate and trade with the EU. But they don't want member voting rights anymore, plus they want to pay additional duties and add shipping delays in customs.
I think the well-informed British citizens all understood this when they voted on it. Democracy works and the people got what they asked for.
Doesn't mean that it can't have other ports... (Score:5, Informative)
All it means is that the device must have a USB-C port that works for charging. If they also want to put other proprietary ports on it (or mag-safe wireless), or future USB-D/E/F they can do so in addition.
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All it means is that the device must have a USB-C port that works for charging. If they also want to put other proprietary ports on it (or mag-safe wireless), or future USB-D/E/F they can do so in addition.
When USB-D comes out, and it's better in every way than USB-C, at what point can manufacturers drop USB-C? Do they have to lobby the regulators to establish a deprecation schedule? Do they have to include both ports? Is a C->D dongle (so I can plug a C cable into a D port) good enough?
What a pain. I despair any manufacturer will ever bother going through the effort. We'll be stuck with USB-C for far longer than we need to be.
Re:Doesn't mean that it can't have other ports... (Score:4, Funny)
Wouldn't the replacement for USB-C be USB-C++
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Given how messed up USB is, it's likely to be something like USB-C-2.0b1r47.
USB-Objective-C, with extra brackets to hold the connector in.
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Y'all be forgetting USB-Rust, a.k.a. rusty USB connector.
In the UK we must follow global standards (Score:5, Insightful)
In spite of what the bird bained brexiiteers think we are not a valuable enough a market for manufacturers to make stuff just for us. It is OK to buy beer in pints as they are all pulled in bars individually but mobile phones, etc, are a mass market product - they would cost more if there was a UK only standard.
Re: In the UK we must follow global standards (Score:2)
I dont think you can accuse the current labour government of being brexiteers so maybe put away the 2016 rhetoric. This is nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with a new government trying to prove it's got its finger on the pulse via pointless paper shuffling.
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Without this Brexit thing USB-C would already been mandated.
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They could have rubber stamped it through, they chose not to. Its not a legal requirement to review these sorts of things.
Re:In the UK we must follow global standards (Score:5, Informative)
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The desire to ditch EU standards was mostly driven by lies in newspapers about how stupid the were. The EU even made a website debunking them all.
The classic one is "bendy bananas", where the EU adopted rules on how much curvature a banana can have. In reality it was actually British law long before then, and the EU adopted it from us as it had become a de-facto standard anyway.
As predicted, we are now just following the EU in most matters, or suffering because we didn't.
Re:In the UK we must follow global standards (Score:4, Informative)
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Which was a waste of money since the UK will continue to recognise CE indefinitely:
https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]
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And when your customers don't understand that and demand UK certification anyway, you still need to provide it. That's the 'if everything worked perfectly Brexit would have been a success' fallacy.
It was only ever going to add to bureaucracy and red-tape, but it did allow some people to do some disaster capitalism, so the main aim of the Brexit project was achieved.
Mandate that they can actually charge from USB C (Score:3)
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can only charge if plugged into a USB 2.0 charger using a USB A to USB C cable.
Then throw out your shitty USB-C charger which isn't conforming to the USB Spec, the same spec which says your charger needs to be able to provide dumb 5V to any dumb device plugged into it to ensure perfect backwards compatibility.
We don't need another mandate if you are buying devices that don't follow the existing ones.
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"the same spec which says your charger needs to be able to provide dumb 5V to any dumb device plugged into it to ensure perfect backwards compatibility"
Wrong. To turn on basic +5V VBus for USB-C to USB-C, the device receiving power has to pull down the CC lines.
USB-A/-B has different connectors for the host and device ends, so it was unambiguous which end supplied power so you leave VBus on.
Since UBS-C is the same connector on both ends, you need some other way to identify device from host.
A USB-A to USB-C
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Dumbass.
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How about the USB-C wearing out? That's what I have experienced.
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Users moving their laptop between workplace and conference rooms day out, day in several times per day.
Within 3 years the problems starts to show up.
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Thing is, those aren't USB Type-C ports. They may use the same connector, but if they don't follow the USB specs, they're not USB ports.
Re: Mandate that they can actually charge from USB (Score:2)
Type C is one spec, USB is several. There are what, four different kinds of USB 3 alone?
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You could check if the products actually exhibit a USB logo on the box or documentation. It could be they use a 24-pin connector that happens to be same as USB-C, but never claimed to be a USB device (since they'd need to pay more for certified components, plus the royalties to the USB Implementer's forum).
Also, if you're buying from sites like Amazon or Aliexpress, you're on your own. Individual sellers on these sites don't follow local (e.g. EU) regulations if they ship from their countries. To the contr
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I am not sure if anything is really illegal. Amazon probably made the terms of service in a way they don't get splash-responsibility. Sellers are located far away and the products they sell are legal in their countries. As long as they do not contain prohibited drugs or counterfeit brands, the products are legal for you to import and use and they don't get intercepted by Customs. You just are not allowed to resell them locally. Amazon has demonstrated they are not interested in policing their listings. Use
Re:Mandate that they can actually charge from USB (Score:5, Informative)
THIS! This is the braindead part of the EU mandate.
There's nothing braindead about it. The EU mandate requires backwards compatibility with USB2.0 standard power requirements if the device consumes less than 15W @ 5V, and requires USB-PD for anything higher than that. The USB Specification already requires backwards compatibility from a USB-C port to charge devices at 5V 3A. All your use cases are covered in the regulations.
The fact that you are buying devices not compliant with the regulations isn't the fault of the regulations.
Should be UKB-C - Brexit means Brexit! (Score:5, Funny)
UK should be independent and govern on its own.
There should be separate standard UKB-C different from USB-C
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UK should be independent and govern on its own.
There should be separate standard UKB-C different from USB-C
Not sure if you are serious. It makes sense to use international industry standards, for which is is not essential to be joined at the hip to any other particular countries. Despite other comments mocking about Brexit, this has nothing to do with the EU, the USB standard originated in the USA as it happens.
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I suggest making the connector similar to a British plug by including a replaceable fuse.
Re:Should be UKB-C - Brexit means Brexit! (Score:5, Funny)
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Completely meaningless (Score:3)
As the EU is going to enforce this, the world will follow. There is enough precedent by now. This is just the UK pretending that they are still relevant to tech standards. They are not.
I cant wait. (Score:2)
How long will it take to charge a Tesla Model 3 via USB-C? 300 to 400 hours?
It's not really British ... (Score:2)
USB-C is a dumpster fire (Score:2, Insightful)
POS connector, that is weak as shit, has loose connections after a few years, has an absolute mess of cable & port types none of which are clearly marked, too much reliance on firmware and controller chips, costly as cables have to be active & need a chip, over-complicated and over-engineered to the point that all the stars & planets need to align for it to work right
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Don't mod this troll until you've lived with enough of the lower quality USB-C connectors that seem to be cropping up all over. It's basic physics though -- small, complicated connector with too much leverage from the the cord. I had to switch to wireless charging to preserve that delicate port after losing my last phone to it.
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It was no different with the MicroUSB, though.
After an exhaustive study... (Score:2)
Masters of the bleeding obvious.
The UK... (Score:2)
....late to the party as usual.
Can't charge for compatibility (Score:2)
They don't need a standard, they (and other countries) need to prevent a hardware monopoly that can be labelled out-of-date at any moment: A law demanding any implemented standard be supported for 15 years and does not cost more than their 'new and improved' alternative, is needed. That is, Apple can't charge #30 for Thunderbolt 10 but #50 for Thunderbolt 9, or #70 for the current open-standard.
The reality of 'too big to jail' means corporations (mostly US-based) can do anything because governments can'
Re:EU hypocrisy (Score:4, Insightful)
Far more people use smartphones than electric shavers. Hence it is not hypocrisy, but merely an excuse you use to whine about the EU.
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i demand that all BOV's charge via usb-c :) /.)
(i will take my gratuity in $s from any oil exec's accidentally wandering
Re:EU hypocrisy (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.graniteriverlabs.c... [graniteriverlabs.com]
Criticizing new EU legislation for not being oppressive and expansive enough is a fresh take, although the concept of hypocrisy doesn't quite apply.
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So when the EU actually uniformly applies these rules across devices produced in the EU,
The "brand-new European electronic shaver" are not made in the EU, except if the website displays in big flashy letters that it is made in EU (usually only the most expensive model of an appliance manufacturer). You mentioned Norelco, which is a range from Philips. I own an electric shaver from Philips purchased last year and it says "Made in Indonesia"
The question never were the place of manufacture (I don't know why you would think locally-made products would get an exception). As it happens, the USB-C ch
Re:EU hypocrisy (Score:5, Informative)
So when the EU actually uniformly applies these rules across devices produced in the EU
What do you mean "all devices produced in the EU"? Firstly it's not about being produced in the EU, but rather sold in the EU. Secondly it was never all devices. There was a very specific list: (The numbering is directly from the clause in Directive (EU) 2022/2380
1.1. handheld mobile phones;
1.2. tablets;
1.3. digital cameras;
1.4. headphones;
1.5. headsets;
1.6. handheld videogame consoles;
1.7. portable speakers;
1.8. e-readers;
1.9. keyboards;
1.10. mice;
1.11. portable navigation systems;
1.12. earbuds;
1.13. laptops.
These were chosen as they were creating the largest amount of e-waste in the union. Your beard trimmer is irrelevant. Not only is it not likely to be replaced every couple of years, but it also won't be used by the majority of the population.
Your ignorance is not someone else's hypocrisy.
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Out of curiosity, how many of each of these categories are actually either (a) made in the EU or (b) designed by EU companies?
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In the USofA it's more about regulating (protecting) companies.
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