Britain To Axe Up To 1.5 Million Lampposts (thetimes.com) 55
An anonymous reader shares a report:Around 1.5 million of Britain's 7.2 million lampposts could be removed to save money and reduce carbon emissions and replaced with lighting that will make it safer for pedestrians.
Under existing rules, there is no requirement to light pavements for pedestrians. They are only lit because light spills over from lampposts, which were principally installed to make it safer for motorists. But today's cars have such effective headlights that lampposts, which are generally 10m tall on A-roads and 6m tall on residential roads, are not necessary in many parts of Britain. Lampposts will remain in place in many locations where they are necessary, such as in cities where CCTV cameras rely on good lighting.
Under existing rules, there is no requirement to light pavements for pedestrians. They are only lit because light spills over from lampposts, which were principally installed to make it safer for motorists. But today's cars have such effective headlights that lampposts, which are generally 10m tall on A-roads and 6m tall on residential roads, are not necessary in many parts of Britain. Lampposts will remain in place in many locations where they are necessary, such as in cities where CCTV cameras rely on good lighting.
Re: Just another week in America (Score:4, Informative)
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Bullshit. The so-called inflation was primarily caused by supply chain disruption, volatile energy prices, and price gouging. Stimulus spending was an insignificant factor.
Re: Just another week in America (Score:2)
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Since you're already imagining, also imagine if there were actual decent jobs that pay a living wage that they could put their energy into.
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WTF has America got to do with a story about Britain? Do you have make everything about yourself?
America is technically a part of Britain although temporarily in a state of rebellion.
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America is technically a part of Britain although temporarily in a state of rebellion.
I like to think of America as where everyone who gave up on fixing the problems with their old country went for a fresh start at creating all new problems.
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I'm actually in favor of UBI but I doubt it would have any positive effect on reducing these thefts. UBI will make it easier for somebody to live off a low-paying job, and stealing copper is a low-paying job.
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I'm assuming this story is about what we in America refer to as "streetlights". Where I live in Florida, the only obvious maintenance issue seems to be that awhile back most of the high pressure sodium lamps were retrofit with LEDs, and due to defective bulbs they've been turning purple. [palmbeachpost.com]
I've never heard of crackheads stealing streetlights for scrap. Air conditioners, wiring from abandoned homes, rental scooters, and the cords from EV chargers, yes, but not streetlights.
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I've never heard of crackheads stealing streetlights for scrap.
Not crackheads, weed farmers. The old HPS lights made for passable grow lamps, and all the driver circuitry was in an easy to reach spot at the bottom behind an easy to open "lock". Not really a lock at all, just enough to keep kids (or anyone without a pair of pliers) out. These days you can order big LED panels in whatever wavelength(s) suit your fancy cheaply from China.
AC theft isn't a thing here. Not only is aircon exceedingly rare in homes, the homes that do have it don't use those window sill mounted
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It's probably just drunk lumberjacks.
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Mother fuck Big Brother and Adam Sutler (Score:1)
Careful With That Axe, Eugene (Score:4, Funny)
Axes won't work:
a) Electrocution risk for the chopper
b) Passers-by may get Brained By Falling Masonry
Very bad idea.
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Yes, concrete lampposts were real. Oh, and... I forgot the link [discogs.com]... (side B is better)
You got me on the handles :-)
Either way: dangerous future for bystanders amidst all those swingers!
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Even if the handle provides adequate insulation, the head shorting between live and neutral could produce a pretty nasty kick.
And suffering will ensue (Score:2)
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Uniformity is more important than brightness. As long as they approach it logically it can improve things from a safety perspective. I would assume high pedestrian areas would be less likely to have role lights eliminated.
In the 90's there was a big push to light up many places in the name of safety. In many places it was grossly excessive. Hopefully they are setting good standards for where and when supplemental lighting is recommended.
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What could possibly go wrong? Crime likes a dark area, being the obvious outcome.
Even if the assumed premise were true this would not affect it as they are removing lamposts that illuminate the roadway. Generally the crime you are imagining being prevented would be on the side walks.
But the premise, is just one of those "obvious" bits of "common sense" that is actually not well supported by evidence [darksky.org]. In particular bad lighting,(which is very, very common - and the lamp posts in question are a good example of bad lighting - reduces you ability to observe your surroundings by obscuring it
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Oh I hope so. If criminals decide to stand in the middle of the roadway where these lampposts are being removed we'll have less criminals!
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Maybe he's thinking they'll lose a leg or something?
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Local councils have been turning off lighting from lamp posts in residential areas for over a decade now - I used to live on a street in 2014 which was directly opposite a rather notorious park, one which you did not ever walk through at night because of its poor lighting and opportunistic thugs wanting their drug money...
Rather than fixing the mugging issue, council decided to just turn off all lights after 10pm in winter in the surrounding residential estates - so now you couldnt walk anywhere and even wa
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Bright lights are perfect for muggers. They can hide in a deep shadow where a pedestrian can't see because the lights spoiled their night vision.
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The vast majority of violent crime in the UK is domestic, where changes in street lighting patterns are unlikely to have much of an effect.
According to the UK's Office of National Statistics:
- "4.8% had experienced domestic abuse in the last year (approximately 2.3 million people)
- 3.2% (approximately 1.5 million people) had experienced stalking in the last
Aha (Score:1)
Lampposts will remain in place in many locations where they are necessary, such as in cities where CCTV cameras rely on good lighting.
Looks like someone's got their priorities straight. Fuck dark streets and let's go back to the dark ages. I can understand possible on roads. Where I live, most roads don't have lights, except at intersections, but for residential? Don't pedestrians also walk the sidewalks?
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Don't pedestrians also walk the sidewalks?
Haven't these pedestrians heard of flashlights/torches?
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I'm a big fan of flashlights and own probably over 50 of about 40 different models, including head-mounted ones. While I do have a tiny one in my pocket and also one on my phone, I really don't expect that I should have to walk around with them when walking around in residential neighborhoods. You can't expect people to walk to their grocery store and then have to juggle their grocery bags as well as a flashlight in order to make it back home.
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> juggle their grocery bags as well as a flashlight
Headlamps are great.
Especially the newish LED band ones. Excellent for working in crawlspaces too.
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Don't pedestrians also walk the sidewalks?
They walk on footpaths, which is not where the lamps are being removed from.
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In fact, based on the summary, it seems like they'll be adding them to footpaths.
Mo more leaning on a lamp post (Score:2)
Herman's Hermits "Leaning on a Lamp Post"
Originally written by George Formby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FzGy2RJs6Q
Narnia will finally get some more lighting (Score:2)
For all these years, they've had only ONE lamp post.
Mostly agree... (Score:3)
Light posts are still a good idea, but I suggest that they are turned off most of the time. They can remain off unless pedestrians are detected nearby and it is determined they should turn on. The big difference here is lights should be for pedestrians and not for drivers.
I find nighttime driving with street lights to be far more difficult then without. Especially if there is a light layer of water on the road - the resulting glare from street lights makes everything more difficult to see. Most notably, pedestrians or cyclists with inadequate lighting. Other motorists are not a problem as they are always well illuminated.
Having street lights illuminate only when pedestrians / cyclists are close by would give drivers advanced warning that such hazards are present. So turning the lights off will not only save power but also increase safety by emphasizing the presence of pedestrians and cyclists.
Such behaviour would require that we identify when lights are not able to correctly detect cyclists / pedestrians. Lights that do not behave correctly actually become a liability. But if all the lights are connected via a wireless sensor network and detected events are communicated to a central source, it should be reasonable to identify those lights that never detect events despite being adjacent to lights which always detect multiple events. Keeping the system accurate and reliable should not be a problem. I say this but they still haven't solved the problem of automatically identifying intersections which do not correctly identify vehicles.
Re:Mostly agree... (Score:4, Interesting)
I find nighttime driving with street lights to be far more difficult then without.
At least here in the USA, I prefer the streetlights because:
Low beams don't illuminate shit. I'm thoroughly convinced their only purpose is to make your vehicle more visible at night to other motorists.
High beams annoy motorists on the oncoming side, and at least in every car I've ever owned they don't actually represent an increase in brightness, just a change in beam pattern where the light is aimed further down the road.
I do remember reading at some point that cars over in Europe have better headlights than our regulations allow here in America, so perhaps that's part of the difference. Those of us who do have to frequently drive in areas without streetlights usually just install some non-street-legal aftermarket lighting on our vehicles, which the police usually ignores if you only turn them on in rural areas and don't annoy other drivers with them.
Re: Mostly agree... (Score:2)
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I really don't want a light that turns on and off in front of my house.
I do like the new pedestrian lights the city put in though, they're warmer light, not as oppressively bright, and closer to the ground.
Then? (Score:2)
It's trading one problem for another higher $ one. (Score:3)
In keeping with Dark Sky principles, our area has fewer streetlights, and they're designed with shields to minimize skyward glare. Homeowners are also restricted to using exterior lights of 800 lumens or less (equivalent to 60-watt incandescent bulbs) in warm white only.
What Does This Setup Get Us?
- Increased use of home outdoor lighting: People tend to leave their outdoor lights on longer to compensate for the dark streets.
- Darker streets: Reduced street lighting makes it challenging to see pedestrians and critters at night, even with modern headlights.
- Other hazards: The lack of sufficient lighting is a challenge for bikers and pedestrians.
Does It Save Money?
Let's break it down:
A typical LED streetlight uses about 120 watts, lighting the area in front of around 8 homes. If each of these 8 houses uses three 8-watt LEDs (60-watt incandescent equivalent), that's 24 watts per house or 192 watt-hours each for an extra 4 hours of use each night. Multiplied by 8 houses, this is 1,536 watt-hours, compared to 960 watt-hours for a single streetlight over 8 hours, and with the street light you get coverage all night.
Cost Comparison of Streetlight vs. Household Lighting
Streetlight Costs:
Total installation: $2,000 - $5,000, including the pole.
Lamp replacement: The lamp itself costs around $200 and lasts 20-25 years, while the pole (the most expensive part) lasts significantly longer.
Household Lighting Costs:
Bulbs: An 8-watt LED costs around $2.50, lasting about 5 years outdoors. Each house here uses 3 bulbs, which for 8 houses, costs around $60 every 5 years, or $120 over 10 years.
So, we’re looking at $100 for streetlight hardware over 10 years versus $120 for residential bulbs.
So, all else being equal and in short, it seems that streetlights are more cost effective over time due to their efficiency and durability, not to mention the broader, safer coverage they provide.
Go figure.
only so we cant use them for the second (Score:2)