75 Years of Lead in Gasoline Caused 150 Million Mental Health Disorders, Study Finds (usatoday.com) 212
The use of lead in gasoline "might have harmed the mental health of a generation," reports USA Today.
Gen X bears an extra burden of conditions such as depression, anxiety, ADHD and neurotic behavior because of the leaded gasoline they were exposed to as children, according to a study published Wednesday in the peer-reviewed Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry. Leaded gas was banned in the United States in 1996, but the study said years of exposure during development made them particularly vulnerable.
Lead gas peaked from the mid-1960s through the mid-1970s, and children born during that era would later develop some of the highest rates of mental health symptoms, the study said. The study also linked leaded gas to "disadvantageous" traits, such as struggling to concentrate, stay on task or organizing thoughts. "I tend to think of Generation X as 'generation lead,'" said Aaron Reuben, a study co-author and assistant professor of clinical neuropsychology at the University of Virginia. "We know they were exposed to it more and we're estimating they have gone on to have higher rates of internalizing conditions like anxiety, depression and symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder...."
Researchers linked the lead exposure to an estimated 151 million "excess mental disorders" in the United States over the 75-year period. The estimates should be "considered a floor" because it relies mainly on gas and not exposure from lead in paint and pipes, Reuben said... Those born between 1966 and 1986 generally had higher mental illness levels linked to lead exposure with the rates peaking for those born between 1966 and 1970, the study said. Those rates coincided with the peak use of lead in gas from the mid-1960s through the mid-1970s... The study said the peak lead use coincided with increased demand for psychiatric care and higher rates of juvenile delinquency.
Today there's routine blood screenings for high levels of lead, study co-author Reuben says. But in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, "folks were walking around with an average blood lead value that today would trigger clinical follow-up."
Lead gas peaked from the mid-1960s through the mid-1970s, and children born during that era would later develop some of the highest rates of mental health symptoms, the study said. The study also linked leaded gas to "disadvantageous" traits, such as struggling to concentrate, stay on task or organizing thoughts. "I tend to think of Generation X as 'generation lead,'" said Aaron Reuben, a study co-author and assistant professor of clinical neuropsychology at the University of Virginia. "We know they were exposed to it more and we're estimating they have gone on to have higher rates of internalizing conditions like anxiety, depression and symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder...."
Researchers linked the lead exposure to an estimated 151 million "excess mental disorders" in the United States over the 75-year period. The estimates should be "considered a floor" because it relies mainly on gas and not exposure from lead in paint and pipes, Reuben said... Those born between 1966 and 1986 generally had higher mental illness levels linked to lead exposure with the rates peaking for those born between 1966 and 1970, the study said. Those rates coincided with the peak use of lead in gas from the mid-1960s through the mid-1970s... The study said the peak lead use coincided with increased demand for psychiatric care and higher rates of juvenile delinquency.
Today there's routine blood screenings for high levels of lead, study co-author Reuben says. But in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, "folks were walking around with an average blood lead value that today would trigger clinical follow-up."
Externalities of driving (Score:5, Interesting)
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What's the link?
Q lot of other stuff is likely to have underestimated physical or mental effects.
Food additives. Most television programming. Social media. The way schools test if students hold on to the taught material. Loud music at festivals. Keeping pets inside your house. Working a 9 to 5. Exercising more than 3 times per week. Alcohol. Poor sleep. Covering your skin in make-up every day. Celebrity worship. Staring into screen all day long. Having half of what you eat being made from corn.
Re:Externalities of driving (Score:5, Insightful)
Will a similar article be published 50 years from now recognizing the toll drive-everywhere culture has had on millennials, zoomers, and gen alpha?
Urban dwelling isn't a bed of roses either. While the results of the experiment do not necessarily translate directly to human behaviors, there was a study done with rats [wikipedia.org] where they were given a high population density "utopia" to live in. Basically, all their needs were provided for and you'd assume that would've just lead to a bunch of really contented rats going about their little ratty lives. Well, nope. The entire rat colony collapsed. Also, before the society collapsed, the rats began acting very weird.
Car culture certainly brought with it its own share of problems, but you have to figure that if people are willing to tolerate all the infrastructure and scalability issues inherent to private vehicle ownership just to avoid living in the city, perhaps there's a grain of truth in that old rat experiment. Besides, just the thought of having to tolerate living in some tiny condo downtown, and attempting to bring all my groceries home in a backpack while riding on a Bird scooter - yeah that'd be enough to drive me crazy.
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You don't need to "drive-everywhere" in order to not be high population density.
Humans are also not rats, and Freedman's work seems to indicate it's a social density not a population density problem. You can have high population density without an equivalent increase in social interactions - modern order food with an app and have it appear at your doorstep without seeing another human being makes that even easier than in the 60s and 70s.
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Hey, you could get some food without dealing with people in the 60's and 70's! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] (yes I know, not delivered to your door)
People weren't willing to tolerate it (Score:2, Informative)
Also I'm assuming you're talking about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/chang... [reddit.com]
As the poster pointed out, it was less utopia and more concentration camp with plenty of food. Rats are exceedingly clever animals and need stimulation and play. Even as adults. The experiment d
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So you're going with a study on rats for you data set here when you have massive metropolises in Asia working just fine? Or the city of New York which despite always having waste disposal issues generally works fine. But rat society collapsed so....?
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recognizing the toll drive-everywhere culture has had on millennials, zoomers, and gen alpha?
You mean the people who don't leave their places in the first place? The people who pay three to four times the amount of a meal to have it delivered so they don't have to go outside? The ones who can't prepare their own meals and instead rely on processed foods? The people who stare at their phones all day rather than going outside and look at the world around them? You mean those people?
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It's all balderdash. I'm a baby boomer and I uh
Re: Externalities of driving (Score:2)
Funny you should mention tolls. What about all the toll collectors in the 70's and 80's , surely they would would have the highest concentrations of anyone, you would think a study would be done.
it's worse than that... (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite credible studies described by George Monbiot https://www.monbiot.com/2013/0... [monbiot.com] suggest that the crime wave in the larger cities were the consequence of developmental damage caused by lead in the air.
The repercussions of the consequential feeling of "breakdown of society" etc are still with us.
From 2016: 'Lead: America’s Real Criminal El (Score:5, Insightful)
Lead: America’s Real Criminal Element [motherjones.com]
Re:it's worse than that... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are strong causal links with poor nutrition, especially in early childhood development, and crime/violence.
Being malnoursihed in a lead-soaked environment sounds like a losing proposition.
Re:it's worse than that... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's surely going to go down in history as one of the greatest mistakes humanity ever made.
We polluted, we accelerated climate change, and we damaged people's development and mental health, all with fossil fuels. Leaded gasoline was just one aspect of a very big but seemingly inevitable mistake.
The guy who put lead is petrol also put CFCs in fridges. Unintentional but he is definitely in the running for most damage done by a single person.
Re:it's worse than that... (Score:5, Informative)
It's surely going to go down in history as one of the greatest mistakes humanity ever made.
We polluted, we accelerated climate change, and we damaged people's development and mental health, all with fossil fuels. Leaded gasoline was just one aspect of a very big but seemingly inevitable mistake.
The guy who put lead is petrol also put CFCs in fridges. Unintentional but he is definitely in the running for most damage done by a single person.
Midgley has been called a one man environmental disaster. Especially since he gave himself lead poisoning from working with tetraethyl lead.
His infamous washing of his hands with leaded gasoline, and inhaling it place under his nose for a full minute, was supposed to prove how safe it was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
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"In 1940, at the age of 51, Midgley contracted polio and was left severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to lift himself out of bed. On November 2, 1944, at the age of 55, he was found dead at his home in Worthington, Ohio. He had been killed by his own device after he became entangled in it and died of strangulation."
A fitting end, I guess. Killed by his own invention like so many others were.
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Unintentional but he is definitely in the running for most damage done by a single person.
There's the first oxygen generating cyanobacteria back in the late Archean, and then there's Midgley...
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Quite credible studies described by George Monbiot https://www.monbiot.com/2013/0... [monbiot.com] suggest that the crime wave in the larger cities were the consequence of developmental damage caused by lead in the air.
The repercussions of the consequential feeling of "breakdown of society" etc are still with us.
It could also have something to do with the fact that these days we take mental illnesses more seriously. We make more treatments available and encourage people to seek treatment earlier rather than waiting until it's almost too late then treating them like a pariah.
Likely to be a combination of many factors, leaded fuels included. Although I do have to wonder if private pilots have higher rates of mental illnesses as AvGas (Aviation Gasoline) for small piston engine planes can still be leaded.
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Lead was a common sweetener in Rome, and leaded glass was used to add flavor to liquors through most of European history [smithsonianmag.com]
As we eliminated these sources of lead, the remaining sources became more noticeable, and the profits of lead suppliers were reduced
We can expect the same from the petroleum industry as we work to eliminate plastics from our environment, it will not be an easy battle since the companies behind plastics will not let those profit margins go easily [cnbc.com]
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Re:it's worse than that... (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite credible studies described by George Monbiot https://www.monbiot.com/2013/0... [monbiot.com] suggest that the crime wave in the larger cities were the consequence of developmental damage caused by lead in the air. The repercussions of the consequential feeling of "breakdown of society" etc are still with us.
It was in 1969 that the effects of tetraethyl lead were shown to be damaging to children, damaging their impulse control and lowering their IQ.
The alarm was sounded after many prisoners were tested and found to have high levels of lead. Then where they spent their youth was mapped out. And a huge number of them were living beside busy highways as children. https://ourworldindata.org/lea... [ourworldindata.org]
Now so often people here like to claim correlation is not causation, but the evidence was strong enough to start the process of eliminating leaded fuel.
Now to the subject at hand - that lead is another part of GenX's litany of woes.
The same should be said for Baby Boomers, and the Greatest Generation. Those WW2 airplanes were using 130 Octane gasoline, courtesy of lead. They used to wash their hands with it.
Don't forget the tasty sweet lead acetate paint chips - long a favorite of little kids.
Lead does indeed harm the hell out of children, but tetraethyl lead poison knows no age restriction. Horrid stuff.
So the concept of naming GenX'ers as generation lead seems a little off, given that we were putting tetraethyl lead in fuel since the 1920's, and neurological effects were well known by 1943. So we're looking at a problem that spans from The Silent Generation, the Greatest Generation, the Baby Boomers, and GenX.
Since biology hasn't changed, the effects should be the same. And they are. Bad stuff, and has been a problem over multiple generations.
Re: it's worse than that... (Score:5, Informative)
So why is crime going back up in blue cities and states and not in others?
An example of cherry picked statistics, I'm afraid.
-- [ref] [manhattan.institute]
A good analysis here: https://www.brennancenter.org/... [brennancenter.org] :
Stop! (Score:3, Funny)
Could we please stop taking cheap shots at Trump voters?
It's getting a little childish now.... if not also a little inappropriate...
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Could we please stop taking cheap shots at Trump voters?
It's getting a little childish now.... if not also a little inappropriate...
I see what you did there. =D Please mod parent up!
Re:The world wonders (Score:5, Informative)
Or that the past four years have seen peak government/corporate collusion.
I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
The world's richest man who owns companies that receive government and even defense contracts is now in charge of cost cutting. There can't possibly be any conflicts of interest...
Re:The world wonders (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't tell if your news brainwashed you or you honestly don't know Trump was President for four years.
Or that the past four years have seen peak government/corporate collusion.
Or if you don't know what fascism is.
Kudos on getting so much wrong in such a short post, though.
People didn't vote for fascism. They voted the way they did because the Democrats went peak strange.
The discards - I noted even before the 2016 election that a whole lot of the Trump signs were in yard of people who were sliding into poverty. It's only been 8 more years of entropy.
Inflation - Inflation was inevitable after the plague years. But the Democrats barely addressed it.
The borders - It might have been a stroke of genius for the states affected by illegals to put them on buses or planes and dropping them off in places where it is easy to be pro illegal immigrant because it doesn't affect you.
Now some elephants in the room.
The Democrat party is utterly terrified of the people who practice identity politics. Identity politics is hella more fascist then anything else. Disagree or have a different opinion? Time to lose your job. Who are they going to vote for otherwise?
They appear to be more worried about pronouns than might be considered prudent.
Sex reassignment surgery for prisoners and illegal immigrants. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com] That guy who lost his job at the mill and having trouble finding a new job might think that isn't a good use of money.
Healthcare for illegal immigrants https://www.nbcnews.com/news/l... [nbcnews.com] https://www.kff.org/racial-equ... [kff.org] Some people who are having a lot of trouble getting adequate healthcare might find that a bit awkward.
Okay, now Ima touch the third rail...
The Democrats ran a gynocentric campaign. They were going to win because women were going to rise in righteous fury, and never go back. Men were not relevant, this was the ultimate takeover.
Except it wasn't. They didn't get the dark skinned males they expected. They didn't get the Hispanic males they expected, and they didn't get the young males they assumed were liberals.
It turns out that black men were not only more conservative than they thought, but are largely red-pilled. Turns out that Hispanic men are really concerned about illegal immigration, and also more conservative than they thought.
And then there are the young males. Having been taught since a young age that men are responsible for every ill the world has ever known, and they as males are intrinsically evil, avoiding college because of the toxicity of the educational system towards people with penises Being told they are not needed. They came to an interesting conclusion. I can't get a decent job, I'm living with my parents, and women are now better educated, a big majority at university, and preferentially hired over people with penises, yet I am as a male, the source of all these well educated women who are gainfully employed?
The system pushed young men to the right. They don't know what Trump and his merry band of people will do, but they do know that they are increasingly marginalized, dehumanized, and the Democratic party does not like them at all.
So while I expect to be modded to hell with this post, if the Democrats want to continue their success in losing the presidency, the House of Representatives, the senate, and continue with a Republican Supreme court, just stay the course, and double down on everything that got you to a defeat that ranks worse than the Mondale debacle.
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Or if you don't know what fascism is.
So do you put up as much of a fuss when right wing types label anything even remotely left of center as "communist" then too?
Re:The world wonders (Score:4, Insightful)
And do not for a moment forget that the Democrats are responsible for Trump version 2.
Republican voters picked Trump in their primary over a field of numerous other candidates. I don't know how you blame Democrats for that?
The vote was a repudiation of what the Democrats stood for
What would you say the "Democrats stood for"? I felt they were really on the defensive throughout the (short) campaign, and never really made a compelling case for what they stood for, and really did not do a good enough job of making it clear how Harris would be different than Biden (who was very unpopular). Just take a look this week at the anger coming out around the health insurance industry. Democrats did not address health care at all (other than abortion rights), and let Republicans control the issues and frame them in terms favorable to them.
And there's no doubt the Democrats have a corporate interest problem, but the Republicans are way, way worse on this issue.
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The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:5, Informative)
Thomas Midgley Jr. [wikipedia.org] was the man responsible for leaded gas in the first place. If that wasn't bad enough, he's also responsible for creating the refrigerants which lead (pun intended) to ozone depletion. The Wikipedia article mentions that he's referred to as "one-man environmental disaster". Considering that he gave low-level lead poisoning to entire generations, that's a bit of an understatement.
The worst part about all this is that the dangers of lead have been known since the time of ancient Greece. It's also why I strongly doubt that we're ever going to make things right in regards to climate change, because humanity has a terrible track record of getting off the wrong path even when we know it's the wrong path.
Re:The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:5, Insightful)
If it wasn't him, it would have been somebody else. When all of the pieces line up, somebody sees the next step first, but they usually aren't alone for long. Sometimes they are only "first" because the history books say so.
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Re:The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:4, Informative)
If it wasn't him, it would have been somebody else. When all of the pieces line up, somebody sees the next step first, but they usually aren't alone for long. Sometimes they are only "first" because the history books say so.
The irony is, leaded gasoline solved an even earlier major health issue in cities... Diseases from animal waste, notably TB.
By the end of the 19th century, London had to deal with 20 tons of horse shit a month. So did all major cities of the age.
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If it wasn't him, it would have been somebody else. When all of the pieces line up, somebody sees the next step first, but they usually aren't alone for long. Sometimes they are only "first" because the history books say so.
There are other octane boosters that do not contain lead - so it was definitely not inevitable.
Re:The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:5, Insightful)
The worst part about all this is that the dangers of lead have been known since the time of ancient Greece.
Don't confuse molecules and compounds. The dangers of ingesting chlorine are very real, yet we have no problem putting Sodium Chloride on our food. Likewise no one put "lead" in their engine. They put tetraethyllead Pb(C2H5)4 in their engines. Much the same way you can hold mercury in your hand with little impact to your health, but get even 0.1mL of dimethylmercury (CH3)2Hg on your hand and your life will be over in a matter of months.
Yes it turned out to be dangerous, but literally anyone who has taken grade school chemistry should be slapped silly for thinking the toxicity of a molecule is in any way related to the toxicity of the compound. What we knew in ancient Greece has zero to do with what we knew about tetraethyllead .
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But we're not talking about the toxicity of tetraethyl lead. People didn't go around pouring petrol (gasoline) all over the streets and or eating/drinking it.
They burned it in combustion engines and pumped the exha
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The lead content of exhaust wasn't analysed until long after TEL started being added to engines. You're criticising the inventor for inventing something claiming he should have known about it, while literally talking about something he didn't invent (exhaust fumes).
There was no reason to think adding TEL would be dangerous at the time. None what so ever.
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The worst part about all this is that the dangers of lead have been known since the time of ancient Greece.
Don't confuse molecules and compounds. The dangers of ingesting chlorine are very real, yet we have no problem putting Sodium Chloride on our food. Likewise no one put "lead" in their engine. They put tetraethyllead Pb(C2H5)4 in their engines. Much the same way you can hold mercury in your hand with little impact to your health, but get even 0.1mL of dimethylmercury (CH3)2Hg on your hand and your life will be over in a matter of months.
Yes it turned out to be dangerous, but literally anyone who has taken grade school chemistry should be slapped silly for thinking the toxicity of a molecule is in any way related to the toxicity of the compound. What we knew in ancient Greece has zero to do with what we knew about tetraethyllead .
Do you really think that your contradiction makes sense? No, Tetrathyl lead wasn't known back then but romans enjoyed lead acetate as a preservative and sweetner in wine. as early as 200 b.c.e., it was suspected, and over the years proven to create problems for those who imbibed wine sweetened with lead. And given that pewter released lead compounds when used with acidic drinks, people were getting dosed. https://www.wineenthusiast.com... [wineenthusiast.com] and https://www.smithsonianmag.com... [smithsonianmag.com]
Colic was the general pres
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And the technical term for lead poisoning is lead poisoning ...
You can expand that to heavy metal poisoning, which is a whole class of bad juju.
Re:The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:5, Interesting)
Just FYI, Freon is non-toxic, non-combustible and non-explosive.
None of the replacements have all three of those properties. Many of them don't have any. Your next furnace is going to cost about $1000 more because it needs sensors to detect leaking propane (used as a refrigerant by the next generation of air conditioners) before it blows your house up.
Re:The inventor was a real piece of work, too (Score:5, Interesting)
The only place you're going to find propane (or more likely, isobutane) used as a refrigerant in the USA is in small office/dorm room mini-fridges. The EPA places limits on how much flammable refrigerant is legally allowed to be charged in an appliance. The latest refrigerant that the US HVAC industry has largely been coalescing around for comfort cooling/heating is R-32. It's slightly flammable, but isn't anything particularly new or scary, because it already makes up 50% of the commonly used R-410a refrigerant. It's also worth a mention that R-410a is a zero ozone depletion refrigerant - it's only being phased out for its high global warming potential. Older refrigerants such as R-12 and R-22 were phased out because their chlorocarbon formula was damaging to the ozone.
There is a bit of a push to replace furnaces with heat pumps anyway, for reasons of increased efficiency and reduction of fossil fuel use. Heat pumps don't have the issue of a source of ignition being near any potential refrigerant leaks. The part you are correct about is that any way you slice it, a replacement HVAC system is going to require that you open your wallet a bit wider than in the past. Mostly it's because of the increased costs of manufacturing HVAC equipment (and that's been going on with everything since Covid), and the rest is just increased labor costs.
Finally, yeah, freon was a "miracle chemical" when it was initially discovered. Ammonia was nasty stuff, but ironically, you can still buy small absorption refrigerators on Amazon even today. They're still in use by the Amish and in RVs. Large commercial refrigeration facilities also commonly still use ammonia.
exploding refrigerators? [Re:The inventor was...] (Score:2)
Just FYI, Freon is non-toxic, non-combustible and non-explosive. None of the replacements have all three of those properties.
When was the last time you heard of a refrigerator exploding? Oh, right: never.
The chlorine-containing HFCs ("Freons") that deplete ozone were phased out, but other compounds have taken their place. R134A is the most commonly used right now, but pretty much all of the currently used replacements for the old freon refrigerants are non-toxic, not-combustable, and non-explosive.
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Your next furnace is going to cost about $1000 more because it needs sensors to detect leaking propane (used as a refrigerant by the next generation of air conditioners) before it blows your house up.
Why would that apply to propane refrigerant and not a furnace with an already unlimited natural gas supply?
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It's the same process by which hydrogenated cottonseed oi
Should we really blame him? (Score:2)
150 million mental disorders in the US ? (Score:3)
Data collection began in 1999 by survey.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Mass secondary trauma (Score:3)
Most X generation children's parents were either bought up by the Silent generation, who grew up during WW2, or the oldest boomers whose parents also fought in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Those soldiers bought a lot of mental health issues back from war before becoming parents. Traumatized parent == traumatized children and back then, less was known about those affects on the mind than the effect of leaded fuel on the brain.
One song describes it perfectly. [youtube.com] and I still think we have a fair way to go before we unwrap all of the mental health issues that the X generation has had to deal with.
The Biggest Environmental Crime (so far) (Score:2)
Leaded petrol or TEL must be the single biggest environmental crime so far.
Climate change might eclipse it at some point, we shall see.
Funny how both are linked to the oil lobby...
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Leaded petrol or TEL must be the single biggest environmental crime so far.
Lead made people stupid and criminal, but the petrol itself is destroying the biosphere.
Well it is replaced (Score:3)
by covid which also causes mental disorders, and society gives a f*** about cleaning up the air which would prevent a ton of such cases!
https://medicine.washu.edu/new... [washu.edu].
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Gen X is the wrong generation here (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the time frames, why the constant mention of Gen X? They were the latter half of that, yet there is no mention of the other half?
Gen X is classically the period between 1965 and 1980. Gen X didn't even start until the peak, according to this. How about the first half?
Also, from here: https://www.epa.gov/americasch... [epa.gov].
"The largest declines in blood lead levels occurred from the 1970s to the 1990s, following the elimination of lead in gasoline. "
So the bulk of Gen X was situated during the LARGEST DECLINE in blood lead levels, how about talking about the biggest victims of lead poisoning then? Not Gen Xers, they were the first to benefit from unleaded gas.
And Gen X/Boomer has never even been a good division anyway. Boomer and Gen X are largely the same, but there's a group between them that are significantly different. Technically, Generation Jones is the right group here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Researchers linked the lead exposure to an estimated 151 million "excess mental disorders" in the United States over the 75-year period."
75 years! Generations are more like 15 years.
"Those born between 1966 and 1986 generally had higher mental illness levels linked to lead exposure with the rates peaking for those born between 1966 and 1970, the study said."
Oh and now it's a 20 year period, and it's compared to a period entirely within it!
"Those rates coincided with the peak use of lead in gas from the mid-1960s through the mid-1970s... The study said the peak lead use coincided with increased demand for psychiatric care and higher rates of juvenile delinquency."
It also coincided with some other important issues. A big recession, Vietnam, Watergate, corruption of the Republican Party, Iranian revolution, the first time in the country's history when the outlook for children was worse than for their parents. ALL the things that defined the difference between Gen Jones and the Boomers. Gen X, once you separate out Jones, is a period defined by Reagan, where the outlook, for a time, improved considerably and restored attitudes similar to those of older boomers. And all these groups had significant exposure to lead, and all are vilified today as having it good compared to younger generations.
This article has an agenda and is not aligned with, or particularly aware of, actual history. Why it feels the need to play identity politics is very interesting. The world is very aware of the danger of lead, how about an article about the interesting dissonance of these peak mental issues with Reagan's dismantling of mental care? What we have here is cherry picking and crappy history. Not sure what the point is.
Also, are "depression, anxiety, ADHD and neurotic behavior" higher in Gen X than today? Seems unlikely, although that's probably cultural.
Almost (Score:2)
150 million? (Score:2)
Inhaling lead is obviously bad, and one wonders that such an additive was ever approved. People have known about lead poisoning for a long time. One knew about neurological risks to children already in the 19th century! How did anyone think that putting lead into the air was an acceptable idea?
However, I do question the "150 million" cases in the US. They say this is centered on people born from 1966 to 1986. However, even if you count all births from 1960 through 1996 (when leaded gasoline was outlawed),
Difficult to determine cause from statistics (Score:2)
There is lots of evidence that lead in the air is bad, and eliminating lead from gasoline was a very positive move, but I don't think there is a straightforward way to demonstrate the level of harm caused by lead because so many other things correlate with lead exposure.
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Okay cool.
What should we call 'diesel,' then? 'cause that's also petroleum.
And kerosene. And naphtha. And paraffin. And mineral oil. And... well you're clearly a very clever AC, you get the point.
=Smidge=
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Diesel... and kerosene, ... Sorry I don't understand what your point is. The fact that gasoline, petrol, petroleum and crude oil are different have literally nothing to do with the words kerosene, naphtha and paraffin which are all the same in the language.
The OP may be failing at looking clever, but you're succeeding in looking very dumb.
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We in the UK call Kerosene "Paraffin". It will also make your car go (possibly with minor damage to the engine).
I do not think the UK has used the word gasoline for petrol at all - certainly not since 1930. Petrol and petroleum are not, an
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> Petrol and petroleum are not, and never have been, interchangeable in meaning.
Glad someone understands my point. Now if only you had read the rest of the thread...
=Smidge=
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Petrol and petroleum are not, and never have been, interchangeable in meaning.
That is the basis of the complaint. If you make the complaint that referring to "gasoline" as "gas" is confusing, then it's hypocritical to argue with the point that calling gasoline "petrol" is also confusing, because both gasoline and diesel fuel oil are petroleum distillates so the word "petrol" obviously applies equally to both of them, and every other petroleum distillate as well like naptha.
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"I think you will,find Oxygen, Hydrogen and Carbon Monoxide are also called gas. They won't make your car go "
You can convert a piston engine to run on Hydrogen, in fact some Japanese auto manufacturers are doing that.
As for Carbon Monoxide, well they did that during World War II.
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Apparently the etymology of "gasoline" is actually UK origin, stemming from a brand name of lamp oil. I guess at some point Brits huffed too much of it and collectively decided to change the name to the more ambiguous "petrol." =Smidge=
You will find this pattern with a lot of words that Brits like to poke fun at Americans. Soccer and Aluminum are other examples of Brits coining a term, the US adopting it, then Brits change their minds.
british petroleum (Score:2)
Re:Gasoline is obsolete (Score:5, Insightful)
,...and the byproducts?
You may be shocked to discover there's an entire secondary market of essential goods that rely on the refining of petroleum.
Re:Gasoline is obsolete (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Gasoline is obsolete (Score:4, Informative)
...not forgetting fertilizer
Almost all of the issues you raise being directly linked to the sheer volume of human biomass on the planet, I'm wondering now about whether or not you have children.
Re: Gasoline is obsolete (Score:2)
Re: Gasoline is obsolete (Score:2)
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I'd you're intelligent enough [snip]
Clear evidence of damage to the Broca's area. ;p
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Whatever you call it, it's going obsolete very fast now.
Slashdot needs some extra Mod tags Some suggestions "Showing Stupidity", "Wishful Thinking", "Poster has head up their Butt", "Poster Lives under a rock" "Poster Doesn't live in the real world"
My fav "Poster Can't Google"
for context https://ourworldindata.org/fos... [ourworldindata.org] we are using more than ever
Anon while Moderating
Re: Gasoline is obsolete (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks for saying that. Some people truly live in their dream worlds. Reality check is what they need.
more mod choices [Re:Gasoline is obsolete] (Score:5, Insightful)
I just wish there were a slashdot mod "-1 incoherent."
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,...and the byproducts?
You may be shocked to discover there's an entire secondary market of essential goods that rely on the refining of petroleum.
This! We must shift away from ICE vehicles, and use the remaining petrochemistry as feedstock and for things like air travel. Otherwise, the world is going to be in for a real shock some day.
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Whatever you call it, it's going obsolete very fast now.
Yeah, only EVs beat it regarding how fast it's going obsolete right now! Dealers and makers parking lots are full of obsolete EVs nobody wants to buy.
They are full of 150K pickup trucks as well - So is the Pickup truck obsolete as well?
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The pickup truck is a STUPID vehicle for 80% of the people who drive them. They want to pretend to be cowboys, with jacked up to here wheels... but have a lid on the back that's never been opened, and most of them are spotless, meaning they're not work vehicles. And anything you actually put in the back can be rained on, or snowed on, or stolen... but you don't put anything there, because that's not "cool".
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All the people I know with pickups and SUVs seem happy with them. Indeed most of the vehicles on the road around here are pickups or SUVs. I'm pretty sure that is not because they really hate them but were brainwashed.
I have a Jeep SUV, one of the Trailhawks. I love it. But I also use it for it's purpose, fun in mud and rocks.
I have no doubt that the Truck Bro's love their pickup trucks. It would be pretty sad after spending that much money and pumping all that gasoline into them.
As well, it is a badge of patriotism for so many, the brainwashing you spoke of.
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Errr no it's not (at least the part in response to the OP). There's literally no place on earth that calls petrol petroleum. Do try and follow the conversation.
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That is true. But still has nothing to do with what the OP said. And while the word petrol comes from petroleum and while petrol is a form of petroleum spirit, petrol is NOT petroleum and the two words are not used interchangeably anywhere on the planet.
Petrol is petroleum spirit (the easily evaporating parts of petroleum) with additives to increase the knock resistance.
Also not correct. Petrol is far far more complex than you think and since we stopped adding tetraethyllead to petrol the knock resistance actually doesn't come from any additives at all, instead through a refining processes such as reforming - the product of
Re: thats good - its called petrol (Score:2)
Lead was the original anti-knocking agent, now it's ethanol.
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Petroleum is the source and a mixture of hydrocarbons extracted from the ground, so the parent post is correct if somewhat arrogant.
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At least we're not wasting ethanol on this nonsense!
Oh.Wait.
Re: Holy shit! (Score:2)
Or we would have, if the shift right off the Overton window didnâ(TM)t coincide almost exactly with lead pollution.
Re:Now we get PFAS (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks so much, you *********** Boomers and "Greatest" Generation.
Clear signs of toxin damage to the prefrontal cortex here.
how do you know you werenot affected ? (Score:5, Insightful)
https://ourworldindata.org/dat... [ourworldindata.org]
it does not matter what the crime was in 19th or 16th century - I don't think anybody can pretend you can compare 19th century society to post WW2 society that easily. What matters is what can be compared : crime rate - especially homicide -in 1940 and crime rate in 1970 and crime rate in 2000.
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Did you even look at the graph you posted? The crime rates are barely correlated between countries. Why did france have a peak in the 60s but italy in the 90s and the netherlands in the 2000s? Proves absolutely nothing about leaded fuel. Maybe have a lot to do with civil unrest, mafia and drug gangs respectively however.
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I don't buy the whole inner city crimewave thing which is also sited - correlation is not causation.
Maybe you would have done better if you were not sited in such a location.
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I'm a Gen-X born and grew up in that era in a big city and I got a degree and...
...and despite the degree never learned the difference between anecdote and statistics.
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I'm a Gen-X born and grew up in that era in a big city and I got a degree and did ok for myself despite the lead.
Good to know your completely unbiased sample size of one had acceptable results.
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How do you explain Gen Y and their incessant, hyena-like screeching on all fronts?
Hm. Microplastics, PFAS, etc.
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How do you explain Gen Y and their incessant, hyena-like screeching on all fronts? The hysteria, the general un-hingedness, the propensity to buy into manipulative bullshit, the need for constant coddling, safe spaces and all that? The inability to even tolerate points of view other than their own?
Reading your post I don't think a Gen Y is the problem here. Please seek a therapist.
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Nah. Teaching people to have empathy and extend that to those outside their immediate group is a good thing. We're no longer family groups of primates wandering the savannahs.
However, we are so risk-averse that I think we are seeing the results of raising a generation in a bubble. Never risking hurt feelings, never risking a broken bone, and letting anyone who is uncomfortable cocoon in their room with an Internet connection for company. That's an environment where kids who are already timid by nature
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Have you really found evidence this, of all things, is generational? I haven't ever met any age group, where less than about 2/3 of the people aren't like that.
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I think that might be your leaded brain making stuff up.
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How do you explain Gen Y and their incessant, hyena-like screeching on all fronts? The hysteria, the general un-hingedness, the propensity to buy into manipulative bullshit, the need for constant coddling, safe spaces and all that?
Your generation didn't feel comfortable sharing a water fountain or public bathroom with black people. White people had their safe spaces.
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The oil companies knew leaded gasoline was deadly a century ago. https://www.wired.com/2013/01/... [wired.com]