Luigi Mangione's Ghost Gun Was Only Partially 3D-Printed (rollingstone.com) 177
"More than a decade after the advent of the 3D-printed gun as an icon of libertarianism and a gun control nightmare, police say one of those homemade plastic weapons has now been found in the hands of perhaps the world's most high-profile alleged killer," Wired wrote this month:
For the community of DIY gunsmiths who have spent years honing those printable firearm models, in fact, the handgun police claim Luigi Mangione used to fatally shoot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson is as recognizable as the now-famous alleged shooter himself — and shows just how practical and lethal those weapons have become. In the 24 hours since police released a photo of what they say is Mangione's gun following the 26-year-old's arrest Monday, the online community devoted to 3D-printed firearms has been quick to identify the suspected murder weapon as a particular model of printable "ghost gun" — a homemade weapon with no serial number, created by assembling a mix of commercial and DIY parts. The gun appears to be a Chairmanwon V1, a tweak of a popular partially 3D-printed Glock-style design known as the FMDA 19.2 — an acronym that stands for the libertarian slogan "Free Men Don't Ask."
The FMDA 19.2, released in 2021, is a relatively old model by 3D-printed-gun standards, says one gunsmith who goes by the first name John and the online handle Mr. Snow Makes... Despite its simple description by law enforcement and others as a "3D-printed pistol," the FMDA 19.2 is only partially 3D printed. That makes it fundamentally different from fully 3D-printed guns like the "Liberator," the original one-shot, 3D-printed pistol Wilson debuted in 2013. Instead, firearms built from designs like the FMDA 19.2 are assembled from a combination of commercially produced parts like barrels, slides, and magazines — sometimes sold in kits — and a homemade frame. Because that frame, often referred to as a "lower receiver" or "lower," is the regulated body of the gun, 3D-printing that piece or otherwise creating it at home allows DIY gunmakers to skirt gun-control laws and build ghost guns with no serial number, obtained with no background check or waiting period.
Chairmanwon "instantly recognized the gun seized from the suspect..." reported USA Today. As a photo circulated online the fake New Jersey driver's license and 3D-printed gun police found on Luigi Mangione, he spotted the tell-tale stippling pattern on the firearm's grip. "It's mine lol," the man, known as "Chairmanwon" quipped on X Dec. 9. Then he quickly deleted the post...
No federal laws ban 3D-printed or privately made firearms. But as police agencies have increasingly recovered untraceable homemade guns at crime scenes, some state legislatures have passed stricter rules... If authorities can prove Mangione downloaded and printed his firearm in Pennsylvania or New York, he could face additional gun charges. Fifteen states now require serial numbers on homemade parts or ban 3D printing them. Some even ban the distribution of 3D printing instructions.
President Biden and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives added regulations in 2022 that say the ghost gun parts kits themselves qualify as "firearms" that should be regulated by the Gun Control Act. ["Commercial manufacturers of the kits will have to be licensed and must add serial numbers on the kits' frame or receiver," USA Today reported earlier. ] Gunmakers challenged those rules at the Supreme Court. In October, the court heard oral arguments, but justices signaled they were leaning toward upholding the rules.
Rolling Stone tries to assess the results: In recent years, crimes involving ghost guns seem to have abated across much of the United States. Ghost gun recoveries by police in New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and other major cities dropped by as much as 25 percent between 2022 and 2023, and the most prolific maker of the kits used to build the untraceable weapons closed its doors this year. The likely cause is a federal rule change requiring the kits to be serialized — a stipulation that forces sellers to conduct background checks on their customers.
Monday Luigi Mangione will appear in court for arraignment on state murder charges, reports USA Today: Mangione had been expected to face arraignment on the state charges Thursday, but the proceedings were postponed after federal authorities announced they were also bringing charges, and he was whisked to a federal courthouse instead in a move that appeared to shock Mangione's defense team... Federal authorities unsealed a criminal complaint against Mangione that included four separate charges: murder using a firearm, two counts of interstate stalking and a firearms count. The death penalty was abolished in New York state, but the federal charges could bring a death sentence if Mangione is convicted. The charge of murder using a firearm carries a maximum possible sentence of death or life in prison. The other federal charges have maximum sentences of life in prison, and the firearms charge has a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years.
The FMDA 19.2, released in 2021, is a relatively old model by 3D-printed-gun standards, says one gunsmith who goes by the first name John and the online handle Mr. Snow Makes... Despite its simple description by law enforcement and others as a "3D-printed pistol," the FMDA 19.2 is only partially 3D printed. That makes it fundamentally different from fully 3D-printed guns like the "Liberator," the original one-shot, 3D-printed pistol Wilson debuted in 2013. Instead, firearms built from designs like the FMDA 19.2 are assembled from a combination of commercially produced parts like barrels, slides, and magazines — sometimes sold in kits — and a homemade frame. Because that frame, often referred to as a "lower receiver" or "lower," is the regulated body of the gun, 3D-printing that piece or otherwise creating it at home allows DIY gunmakers to skirt gun-control laws and build ghost guns with no serial number, obtained with no background check or waiting period.
Chairmanwon "instantly recognized the gun seized from the suspect..." reported USA Today. As a photo circulated online the fake New Jersey driver's license and 3D-printed gun police found on Luigi Mangione, he spotted the tell-tale stippling pattern on the firearm's grip. "It's mine lol," the man, known as "Chairmanwon" quipped on X Dec. 9. Then he quickly deleted the post...
No federal laws ban 3D-printed or privately made firearms. But as police agencies have increasingly recovered untraceable homemade guns at crime scenes, some state legislatures have passed stricter rules... If authorities can prove Mangione downloaded and printed his firearm in Pennsylvania or New York, he could face additional gun charges. Fifteen states now require serial numbers on homemade parts or ban 3D printing them. Some even ban the distribution of 3D printing instructions.
President Biden and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives added regulations in 2022 that say the ghost gun parts kits themselves qualify as "firearms" that should be regulated by the Gun Control Act. ["Commercial manufacturers of the kits will have to be licensed and must add serial numbers on the kits' frame or receiver," USA Today reported earlier. ] Gunmakers challenged those rules at the Supreme Court. In October, the court heard oral arguments, but justices signaled they were leaning toward upholding the rules.
Rolling Stone tries to assess the results: In recent years, crimes involving ghost guns seem to have abated across much of the United States. Ghost gun recoveries by police in New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and other major cities dropped by as much as 25 percent between 2022 and 2023, and the most prolific maker of the kits used to build the untraceable weapons closed its doors this year. The likely cause is a federal rule change requiring the kits to be serialized — a stipulation that forces sellers to conduct background checks on their customers.
Monday Luigi Mangione will appear in court for arraignment on state murder charges, reports USA Today: Mangione had been expected to face arraignment on the state charges Thursday, but the proceedings were postponed after federal authorities announced they were also bringing charges, and he was whisked to a federal courthouse instead in a move that appeared to shock Mangione's defense team... Federal authorities unsealed a criminal complaint against Mangione that included four separate charges: murder using a firearm, two counts of interstate stalking and a firearms count. The death penalty was abolished in New York state, but the federal charges could bring a death sentence if Mangione is convicted. The charge of murder using a firearm carries a maximum possible sentence of death or life in prison. The other federal charges have maximum sentences of life in prison, and the firearms charge has a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years.
If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:5, Informative)
He had no criminal record, so he could've walked into any gun store in Hawaii and bought a weapon.
The advantage of a ghost gun is that he could've tossed it in the trash or a pond in Central Park, and then, if found, it couldn't be traced to him.
But he kept it with him and was carrying it when he was arrested at McDonald's in Pennsylvania.
Some people think he wanted to get caught, but plain old stupidity is a simpler explanation.
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Some people think he wanted to get caught, but plain old stupidity is a simpler explanation.
Really? The simplest explanation was he wasn't done. Do you need an explanation on that? Luigi was ready to rid the world of our late stage capitalism problem.
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Informative)
Using a ghost gun for multiple assassinations while carrying it in his backpack between killings makes no sense.
He should've bought a legal gun and stashed it somewhere between shootings.
He was stupid.
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I'm not trying to be mean, I'm seriously asking why is it stupid? If he gets a legal gun, he goes through a background check(with a picture?)
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The background check for a mere firearm doesn't involve a picture. It does for the silencer/suppressor, but that doesn't leave ballistic evidence on the bullet or casing. He can actually reuse the serialized frame and suppressor and use only aftermarket slides and barrels that don't require a background check. The slides and barrels are what leave toolmarks on the bullets and cases.
For somebody to have created their own firearm from a kit, I would think he would know these regulations. Maybe he wasn't t
Erasing his tracks (Score:3)
Indeed. I mean, his actions read a lot like somebody reading stuff online and having about as much comprehension of the law as a sovereign citizen. Or watching CSI shows and thinking they're gospel. He might have read that a "ghost gun" can't be tracked - never mind that if you're caught with it on you that they don't need to track it.
Now, as the Castle series goes: "There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people: psychopaths and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays better
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does the legality of a gun matter, when you're already on camera?
His face was not visible during the shooting.
The legality of the gun doesn't matter. That's why there is no point in using an illegal ghost gun.
I'm seriously asking why is it stupid?
The ghost gun was in his backpack, along with a manifesto that was tantamount to a confession.
If you can't see how that was stupid, then I don't know what to say.
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Why does the legality of a gun matter, when you're already on camera?
His face was not visible during the shooting.
The legality of the gun doesn't matter. That's why there is no point in using an illegal ghost gun.
If I need to explain why people use a ghost gun... Before he got caught, you somehow were able to see an ok picture of him. The people in PA recognized him, how did they do that without a public picture?
I'm seriously asking why is it stupid?
The ghost gun was in his backpack, along with a manifesto that was tantamount to a confession.
If you can't see how that was stupid, then I don't know what to say.
I'm not arguing that keeping the gun was an odd choice, but I have read about Luigi. The things I read do not point to a stupid person. He didn'
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Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Interesting)
He wasn't without financial means. He could have dumped the slide and barrel in order to keep it from being matched to the scene.
Heck, that's how I might do it - completely legal gun. Swap in an aftermarket barrel and slide for the murder. Swap back afterwards and dispose of the barrel and slide, preferably in a way such that they'll never be able to be matched to the shooting.
Plus, once he found out that they were looking for him, that they had a picture of his face, he should have dumped everything.
And the manifesto was apparently enough to upgrade his charges from 2nd degree murder to terrorism and 1st degree murder state wise and attract federal charges.
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Interesting)
Right after the shooting there were numerous reports stating his gun jammed and had other issues based on the video. Even though he only fired a few shots he still had a jam he had to clear. He would have been better off with a normally purchased gun.
I really believe this guy was arrogant enough to think he could get away with this murder, and the homemade gun somehow made him feel more impowered or invulnerable in some way. I think he figured he was a lot smarter than the usual criminal, and having no previous record and choosing a target he had no personal ties to would make it impossible to catch him.
Why he still had the gun is a question to be answered. Perhaps he had more targets in mind, or figured he would dispose of it further away from the crime scene? Or maybe he wanted it around for bragging rights later.
Heavy suppressors, incorrectly installed cause iss (Score:2, Informative)
Putting the same barrel/suppressor on a store-bought glock would have had the same issue, needing to manually cycle. Almost certainly had nothing to do with how the plastic lower reciever was made.
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and from video, it sure looks like they were expected
hitmen use underloaded ammo, because its both quieter and because shots to the head in which the bullet bounces around inside, are fatal with extreme reliability.. even in the best case, still inoperable
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Interesting)
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He graduated from Ivy League and got a decent job afterwards, so he's not outright stupid. After killing someone, he was almost certainly feeling a lot of intense emotions; the kinds of emotions that interfere with rational thought.
He appears to have stalked and shot a stranger multiple times in the back - I question whether there was much "rational thought" going on to start with.
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There are over 800 billionaires in the US, and presumably most of them have some kind of protection detail. The survivors certainly would after the first few dropped.
You'd need simultaneous hits on all of them to succeed. That's well beyond the coordinate threshold for requiring state-level resources.
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There are over 800 billionaires in the US
Brian Thompson was not a billionaire. He was rich, but not that rich. His net worth was about $80M.
presumably most of them have some kind of protection detail.
I don't think so. I live and work in Silicon Valley and have met or seen billionaires several times. I only recall once noticing a security detail when I saw Larry Page at the Exploratorium with his kids (I assume the very physically fit couple with loose-fitting athletic attire and jackets draped over their arms were security).
The survivors certainly would after the first few dropped.
Thompson was killed because of what he did, not because of how much money he had.
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Context matters; I was replying to a post talking about fixing end stage capitalism. Brian was small fry and no longer part of the discussion.
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Insightful)
Context matters; I was replying to a post talking about fixing end stage capitalism.
We're already living in the most prosperous age in history, and you're wanting to tear it down because...?
You guys have been saying "late stage capitalism" since the great depression. But we've only done better since then while all actual socialist states had gradually declining GDP until they either collapsed (USSR) or rediscovered capitalism (China.) The few stragglers (North Korea, Cuba) make up the few remaining countries that still have famine. The countries that have since took up the socialism mantle since (Venezuela) went from wealthy to poor very rapidly, as has occurred countless times prior. This has long since exceeded being a pattern at this point, but you still want to do it anyways. Those who don't learn from history and all that. There's a reason socialism and free speech have never coexisted.
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I love phrases like "late-stage capitalism" because once someone says it, you can safely ignore everything else they say.
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Those numbers look less good; both in terms of their present state and what direction all the trendlines point in.
It's extra tricky to tell a satisfying story in the American context; both because the period of heavy industrial employme
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Lots of capitalist countries have similar or decreased inequality today than they did in the past, and vastly higher income and quality of life.
Eg. GINIs from the World Bank
France: 1967 - 0.37, 2022 - 0.32
Germany: 1986 - 0.29, 2022 - 0.32
Norway - 1974 - 0.27, 2022 - 0.28
Brazil - 1977 - 0.58, 2022 - 0.52
Australia - 1976 - 0.31, 2022 - 0.34
Canada - 1966 - 0.37, 2022 - 0.32
Even the US isn't getting getting worse at breakneck speed:
1966 - 0.38
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One could find families of those protection detail, so which would they rather, watch their kids being tossed into a woodchipper or bring in the CEOs they're protecting to person who holding their kids and watch their CEOs being eaten cuz there's so much urgency to shit CEOs out.
The problem is that killing billionaires is ethical, but killing their protection detail - or their families - isn't.
Cheese the guy wasn't even a billionaire. Fret not, I'm sure you'll figure out a way to lump him and his security detail into the same class. You guys are all about defining people into classes that fit your arbitrary definition. Always have been since Karl Marx popularized the concept that even many of his detractors have since adopted.
And progressives wonder why I lump all of the ones who label themselves as such into the exact same boat, or "class", given you prefer that term. That list includes prohibit
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>"The problem is that killing billionaires is ethical, but killing their protection detail - or their families - isn't.
The problem is that you, or anyone else, would make a statement that "killing billionaires is ethical." That is insanity.
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No, the insanity is that we worship an economic system that allows billionaires to exist, and we tolerate them using that disproportionate control of wealth to manipulate our society at their whims even as it is obviously making things worse for us.
Killing billionaires under those circumstances is absolutely ethical.
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Vázquez said that he did not witness Neely assaulting anybody.
That's not violent.
which included his (Neely) throwing trash at other passengers
That's not violent.
Neely was not violent at all and you have no proof of it, in fact, those two quotes prove the opposite.
Rittenhouse was tried in a small town kangaroo court, outcome was not surprising that he got to execute two unarmed civilians.
Luigi Mangione stopped a mass murderer from killing more people for profit, by your logic, Luigi was not only justified, but a hero who should be exonerated.
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>>"which included his (Neely) throwing trash at other passengers"
>That's not violent.
Even if it doesn't cause physical harm, throwing things at people is still a physical act, just like spitting at someone, and most would consider it violent. act. And saying you are going to kill people (which he did) is also crossing a line- it is a threat of violence. The totality of Neely's behavior was erratic, scary, violent and threatening and his detainment was certainly warranted. It is unfortunate his a
Re: If he had bought a serialized gun from a deal (Score:2)
Luigi Mangione stopped a mass murderer from killing more people for profit,
No, he didn't. Thompson doesn't review and deny insurance cases. He makes high level policy decisions. Like; it's not worth the risk to insure people with borderline mental problems.
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He was sitting in a public place, wearing the same mask and outfit, and had the same fake id shown to the hostel.
He planned everything that carefully and then made glaring mistakes?
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He planned everything that carefully and then made glaring mistakes?
He hasn't denied anything and what he has said goes to his motive. This includes his postings and writings. He may have made these glaring mistakes, but all the evidence points to him being the killer.
But consider this, he immediately left the scene and headed north on a bike. He then, presumably, hopped on a bus to leave town which means he most likely went through the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Hey look, this is exactly what the poli [go.com]
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:4, Insightful)
He shot Thompson on December 4th.
He was arrested on December 9th, five days later.
That's more than enough time to change clothes.
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Yet when somebody claims evidence is too obvious so being caught must be a sign of willing sacrifice by the holy martyr Luigi, nobody questions he's the killer.
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Re: If he had bought a serialized gun from a deale (Score:2)
Pretty sure he could have bought a gun in NYC, he's college-educated and has ample means to buy a gun on the street...
Re: If he had bought a serialized gun from a deal (Score:2)
I doubt it. Illicit street dealers are not likely going to sell to an unknown person without some sort of reference or introduction. There's too much chance of him being an undercover cop.
Now if he was associated with a cartel, getting hold of a nice AK-47 imported from Albania would have been no problem.
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Building your own glock from an 80% frame still requires a metal barrel, slide, firing pin, extractor, etc etc. in fact the actual cost of building your own pistol from an 80% frame is significantly more expensive than just buying a $580 glock. Or buy one on the streets, pry off the serial plate, and grind the serial number off the barrel if you really want it unserialized. Its just more propaganda that ‘ghost guns’ are somehow more dangerous than any other gun. Apparently having no serial numbe
Re: I wouldn't put it past the cops (Score:2)
The Unibrower. Kek.
Re:If he had bought a serialized gun from a dealer (Score:5, Interesting)
It wouldn't have changed a thing. Everybody knows you "leave the gun, take the cannoli". The reason he kept his supposedly untraceable gun with him was he intended to be caught and wanted there to be no doubt that he was the guy. He even had his manifesto printed out and ready for the cops to find.
This appears to me to be a calculated attempt at propaganda of the deed [theanarchistlibrary.org]. Propaganda of the deed is supposed to incite "the spirit of revolt". This is not supposed to end with him being caught; he knows perfectly well killing one CEO won't change things. Other people are supposed to copy him.
Deliberately getting caught is an interesting twist. If there had been an extended manhunt, the public focus would have been even more on the perpetrator, and when he was eventually caught after a long and satisfying search it would be over. The fact that it wasn't that hard to catch him means that the frenzy wasn't done building yet, and puts more focus on his motives than his identity.
I think the 3D printed gun was intended to underscore the fact that there's nothing the establishment can do to stop anyone who has got the idea of direct action into his head.
Read this guy's biography on Wikipedia. He's no dummy; I think he thought through every aspect of this to maximize its impact.
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Or was planning to hit more targets.
Re: If he had bought a serialized gun from a deale (Score:2)
He likely let it because he was afraid of fingerprints tying him to the killing, but when he left DNA and fingerprints in the trash in/on his Starbucks water bottle and his face was captured on security cameras, his window of opportunity closed down.
Do you imagine he was in small-town PA casing his next CEO?
Hell, he'd be a free man today if he'd simply shaved, cut his hair.
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What do you think the chances his fingerprints or DNA were already on file somewhere AND associated with his identity? I'm guessing pretty low, so those only become a risk if he ever gets suspected and they find ways to take them (or force them).
Those whose fingerprints are permanently on file in different states/feds, either because of run-ins w
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You sound like the Trump supporters who insist that he meant to write "covfefe".
The plan was obviously to get away, otherwise he wouldn't have taken such pains to remain anonymous. But they figured out who he was so that was out the window.
And he always knew capture was possible, hence the manifesto, but it wasn't the plan.
As for the gun, there wasn't much point dumping it since the only reason he'd get arrested is if they figured out who he was, in which case he was screwed regardless. Plus he was scared a
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Re: If he had bought a serialized gun from a deale (Score:2)
Exactly.
Countless "gangbangers" are killed every year by guns with serial numbers.
"Ghost Gun" originally referred to a gun that could pass thru a metal detector undetected, that made more sense to me.
The lack of a serial number simply means you can't trace ownership of the gun, nothing more.
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I don' t think the outcome would have been any different.
The guy wanted to kill the CEO of A Health Insurance Company. Any would do, but perhaps there was something careless about this CEO that made him an especially targetable one. Luigi likely bough "A gun" illegally (why would anyone buy a legal gun to intentionally commit a crime?) That could have been a ghost gun that was 3D printed, or that could have been a retail weapon that was stolen and the serial numbers filed off. It doesn't matter what the gun
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Red herring. There is always a narrative. I'm surprised this murder wasn't caused by climate change. Yet.
"Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:5, Informative)
It should really be "homebuilt firearm" which is indeed legal in most US states.
Re:"Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:5, Funny)
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False. If he had no record the registration would have been irrelevant.
Since he still had it on him when caught the ability to see who had purchased it was also irrelevant.
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if it was registered the shooting could have been prevented
That's some kind of joke, sarcasm, or parody, right? I can't tell on Slashdot given the widely varying political beliefs among its membership.
To make my beliefs clear I'll point out that historically all gun registrations have been shown to be a stepping stone to confiscation. Every single time. They rarely take all the guns on the registry at the same time, rather they "boil the frog" and take them little by little. The gun registries end with every gun in the registry having been confiscated. That le
Re:"Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:4, Insightful)
>"all gun registrations have been shown to be a stepping stone to confiscation. Every single time."
Yep.
>"I'm seeing a growing distrust in government"
And that is the main reason we have our Constitution and Bill of Rights. To limit the government and keep it in check. The other reason is to prevent the tyranny of the majority. Hasn't worked as well as it should, but without it, the game would have been over a long time ago.
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And groups trying to impose their religion, and a Supreme Court happy to help them.
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We shouldn't have to register cars either....
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Homer: But I have to have a gun. It's in the Constitution.
Lisa: Dad, the 2nd Amendment is just a remnant from revolutionary days. It has no meaning today.
Homer: You couldn't be more wrong Lisa. If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here any time he wants and start shoving you around. Do you want that? (Pokes Lisa) Huh? (Shoves her) Do ya!?
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Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Cliche
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But true nevertheless.
Unless, of course, you're driving your carriage around your own manor checking up on the serfs, my lord.
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>"I believe that freedom of travel is a right"
Freedom to travel is. The method and manner is not.
Child rearing is unregulated, why? (Score:3)
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How would that have prevented it? Would registration have cast a magical force-field of protection around his victim?
I've never understood the obsession with serial numbers on firearms. I mean...Oh wow, you traced a stolen gun back to the dealer that legitimately sold it to the theft victim years ago...what does that accomplish? The "benefits" of traceability rely on the criminal purchasing from a dealer....and then leaving the weapon at the scene.
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I’m wondering why the 2A crowd is so silent on Hunter Biden. The constitution makes no mention of drug use in regards to firearm possession. They all say that federal form is bullshit and everyone lies on it.
Re:"Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:5, Insightful)
Iâ(TM)m wondering why the 2A crowd is so silent on Hunter Biden.
I've seen plenty out of the 2A crowd on Hunter Biden. Perhaps you've just been getting your news from sources that have been silent on Hunter Biden, a common problem among the larger and older news outlets as they've had a certain political slant for decades.
The constitution makes no mention of drug use in regards to firearm possession.
The US constitution make no mention of drug use without regard of firearm possession. There's been a big shift in attitudes on government drug controls in the past few years. The opposition to bans on marijuana has been building for a very long time, its only recently that its built to a point that the federal government can no longer pretend that the ban is still in force. Also there's been some reevaluation on vaccine mandates, enough time has passed now that we have some useful data on COVID-19 vaccines which has caused some to question other vaccines. The "opioid epidemic" has turned into a "pain epidemic" as people in need of legitimate pain management can't find physicians willing to prescribe anything more potent than Tylenol. Also the ban on drugs has only led to funding of bootleg drugs, a near repeat of the crime created by alcohol prohibitions. People that don't recall history will be doomed to repeat it.
The shifting attitudes on drugs hasn't resulted in changes to legislation as quickly as I expected. I thought marijuana would be sold like alcohol and tobacco in 5 years after reading about Girl Scouts selling cookies outside of a marijuana dispensary in California. If people believed marijuana users were any kind of threat to their daughters then we'd not be seeing Girl Scouts near where marijuana is sold. I believe I saw that something like 10 years ago now. I believe the marijuana rescheduling issue has been delayed so long because of people distracted by COVID-19, Russia invading Ukraine, and a few other big events in the news in between to distract the public.
I've been seeing court cases in the news that concern drug use and firearms. In many cases the courts are reading into the laws that firearm possession is protected and any laws prohibiting possession in connection to drug use must have a basis in laws in effect at the time the constitution was written. There's been laws against being drunk in public that could hold up under this interpretation, but not with mere possession or perhaps even use of drugs that would not result in disorderly behavior. Given that kind of standard applied outside of firearm possession, and changing views on drug laws, we could see this kind of standard used to make mere possession of drugs no longer a criminal offense. Possession of drugs would not be a crime. Use of any drug that doesn't result in some kind of public intoxication would not be a crime. Only being a stumbling fool, screaming drunkard, passed out in the street, or similar would be criminal. But then being a dangerous fool in public is often considered a crime even when there's no drugs involved. And when no firearms are involved.
It's almost like we don't need laws that mention drugs or firearms to put dangerous people into prisons.
Hunter Biden should not face criminal charges for possession of a firearm while under the influence of cocaine because nobody should face charges for that. Everyone should be held to the same standards under the law. I'm not a fan of people using cocaine but I'm also not a fan of the government getting in our faces over activities that harm nobody else.
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The US constitution make no mention of drug use without regard of firearm possession.
Well Hunter Biden wasn't in a militia either so 2A doesn't help him much.
I think the real problem with that charge was that it was poorly thought out. What are drug users known for? Denial and poor judgment. Do you really expect an addict to look at that check box and think "oh no, I guess I'm not supposed to have a gun then".
Of course they'll still go through with the purchase! The purpose of the law (and similar ones) should be to get guns out of the hands of drug addicts or the dangerously mentally ill.
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Well Hunter Biden wasn't in a militia either so 2A doesn't help him much.
In DC v. Heller SCOTUS ruled that the right to keep and bear arms has nothing to do with membership in any militia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
That argument on 2A protecting the right of states to arm members of police forces and the National Guard died when that court opinion came out. It seems that most anti-2A people aren't going to even try to fight for a new court challenge on that. I'm seeing the anti-2A crowd also give up on trying to argue that the 2A is about protecting firearms for hunting,
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Well Hunter Biden wasn't in a militia either so 2A doesn't help him much.
In DC v. Heller SCOTUS ruled that the right to keep and bear arms has nothing to do with membership in any militia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The court hadn't ruled Hunter Biden's prosecution unconstitutional either. I just figured you were talking about the US Constitution as written, not as read by SCOTUS.
Let people smoke some opium in a kind of bar, dispensary, cafe, or whatever people want to call them. Check ID at the door, If people had too much then cut them off and call a cab. If they had far too much then call for police and an ambulance. Keep narcan on hand in case of an overdose, and train the employees on its use and some other basic first aid. Certainly stop getting in the business of physicians trying to get people some relief of pain, congestion, insomnia, and whatever else these drugs are known useful to treat.
To end this back to the concern on illicit firearms there's many parallels between guns and drugs.
There's parallels, but you're missing a lot of nuance.
Now, I do think safe injection sites are important, and a nudge towards less dangerous drugs would be super helpful. But remember a key feature of drugs is they affect your cognition so you stop making rational decisions. Keeping them illegal is an important signal that suppresses u
Re:"Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:4, Informative)
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>"The constitution makes no mention of drug use in regards to firearm possession."
The Constitution makes no mention of drug use *at all*, except in the silly prohibition and then repeal amendments. A great example of why amending the Constitution should be rare, and very carefully considered.
And yes, people did use drugs/alcohol back in the founding, so it was not an unforeseen thing.
Re: "Ghost gun" is a propaganda term... (Score:2)
if it was registered the shooting could have been prevented
LOL, nice one!
The problem was the CEO stepped into a gun-free zone when he arrived in NYC. Existing gun laws should have made it impossible for the shooter to navigate NYC with a gun...
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>"The problem was the CEO stepped into a gun-free zone when he arrived in NYC. Existing gun laws should have made it impossible for the shooter to navigate NYC with a gun..."
Exactly. "Gun Free Zones" are the most absolutely ridiculous "gun control" measures ever created. In most cases, it does the exact OPPOSITE of the desired outcome. Magically declare an area that is not secure as "gun free" and the law-abiding, who would normally not do anything wrong are now prey to criminals who absolutely couldn
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Clearly this is a Specter Gun, much more ominous than a Ghost Gun.
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I thought the problem was that they're not homemade, not entirely. Are ghost guns not made from unregulated parts kits combined with homemade parts that normally would be regulated? As I understand it, most of the regulated parts of a gun (in the US) aren't actually the parts that you really need to make a firearm, e.g. lowers are regulated but barrels aren't. It used to be the case that if you wanted to make your own semi-automatic then the receiver would be the hardest part to make, with tricky milling op
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The reason the receivers are traditionally part which makes it legally a 'gun' on it's own is because more of tradition (it's how it's been for a long time) and the fact they usually have a flat surface where a serial number can be added. Yes, plenty of rifles & shotguns have stamped information on the barrel, even sometimes including a serial number, it's more work to do it ther
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>"The reason the receivers are traditionally part which makes it legally a 'gun' on it's own is because more of tradition (it's how it's been for a long time) and the fact they usually have a flat surface where a serial number can be added"
It is also because you can easily see the serial number and without disassembling the gun. And because people often will switch out barrels for different uses (different caliber, if a silencer is desired). The problem is like anything else, at what point if you keep
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It seems like some of the media organizations linked in the post are advocating for bans on home-built firearms without a serial number. Some states like California, New York, and Connecticut already have rules on the books for this. I think that it's pretty safe that we won't be seeing any legislation like this at the federal level in the US for at least the next four years.
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>"Ghost gun originally applied to plastic guns that would not show up on a metal detector."
100% correct. But it is so much more effective to cause a panic and label any unserialized weapon as "ghost." "OMG, anyone can just 'print' a gun at home"... um, no, not really. If they want to serialize something, perhaps it should be the metal barrel, which is far, far more difficult to make. But that really won't matter.
The reality is that all-plastic guns are pretty much trash/novelty. They are unreliable,
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>"But they only need to work once to kill someone, and then you just throw it away."
No, not only do they need to work once, of which there is no guarantee, they also need to be effective (penetration/expansion/damage), and they also need to hit the target (accuracy/range). This is why nobody serious about self-protection is going to carry around a single-round, unreliable, inaccurate, wimpy, piece of all-plastic junk. Could it be useful? Maybe. I suppose it is better than nothing at all in some circ
I've played Luigi's Mansion (Score:5, Funny)
I remember lots of ghosts, but no gun.
What happened to gun thefts? (Score:2)
It's interesting the at the number of ghost gun recoveries dropped. I wonder what the affect on gun thefts is?
Thinking like a criminal, this makes sense. I want a gun and I know I won't pass a background check (and I don't want any record of the purchase). If I can buy an unrecorded ghost gun, great, I'll do that. If not, I'll fall back to buying a stolen gun from a guy in an alley. From what I understand, that's pretty easy to do and fairly common.
Anyone have any stats on that? Specifically, any stats on h
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If not, I'll fall back to buying a stolen gun from a guy in an alley. From what I understand, that's pretty easy to do and fairly common.
The problem with that is you need to build up your connections with the criminal community, and that comes with its own set of problems. It's not like buying a thing on ebay, the people stay with you, and maybe start asking favors.
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https://www.gunfacts.info/blog... [gunfacts.info]
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The less information you share with the person you're buying from, the harder it is for them to communicate with you. Parti
Irrelevant (Score:5, Interesting)
The fact that the lower is 3D printed is completely irrelevant.
He has no criminal record, thus he would not have been prohibited from legally purchasing
any firearm from any dealer anywhere.
So the lower doesn't have a serial number on it. Again, who cares. They recovered the
weapon they claim was used to commit the crime.
The fact that the weapon does / does not have a serial number on it and / or the fact that
the weapon wasn't legally purchased from a valid dealer is completely irrelevant considering
the two former issues are completely moot considering we're looking at a pre-meditate murder
charge.
To put it another way: A man who commits murder doesn't give two shits about the gun laws
he is breaking during the commision of said crime. So, why make a big deal of it ?
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The relevance to Slashdot is that someone used a relatively new type of technology. The newsworthiness of the situation is obvious because it's been in all the news sites.
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Because it's the highest profile murder in the United States with a 3d printed firearm.
Also because it gives an opportunity for the politicians to say "We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph!"
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Unless the something they decide to do is ban all guns, they won't do anything even remotely useful. Nothing they will do will make CEOs, or the politicians themselves, any safer.
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So, why make a big deal of it ?
Because idiots need something to rail against (guns exist!) instead of the actual problems (unrealistic societal expectations, poor mental health, loss of the means to sustain oneself, blind eyed law enforcement, etc.) that lead to such crimes.
Frame != Lower (Score:4, Insightful)
A frame includes the grip or at least the inside part of the grip. An AR-15 has a two part receiver with the serial number on the lower part. A Glock-style pistol has a frame. Different designs.
Slashdot (Score:3)
An old Chinese proverb... (Score:2)
An old Chinese proverb is "I don't care if the cat is black or white so long as it catches the mouse." Printed plastic gun, store-bought gun, either way same effect...murder of another person. I sure the victim's family will be happy to know it was only a partially printed gun.
For a smart guy with money, Mangione did not read the infamous "Hitman" book...
https://archive.org/details/Hi... [archive.org]
Stupid is, as stupid does.
To Those Who Think,
To Those Who Dare,
To Those Who Do,
To Those Who Get a Needle in the Arm.
To Tho
You can't ban ... (Score:2)
... tubes and things that go boom.
But then, the people who want to ban tubes and things that go boom are also celebrating this murder, so ... thinking isn't their strong point.
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Not all 3D printing uses plastic. There's been examples produced of 3D printed firearms. One example I recall was based of a Colt Model 1911, the material was some kind of nickel alloy. I don't know how much it would cost to produce a working semi-auto pistol in a nickel alloy but I can imagine it would cost far more than is practical.
The people that 3D printed that M1911 did so as a proof of concept. A pistol is a highly precise machine that operates under considerable forces, which would prove the tec
Re: Only partially? (Score:2)
A metal 3D printer is unobtanium for most people.
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A metal 3D printer is unobtanium for most people.
Agreed. My point is that we can't assume that 3D printed always means plastic. I don't know just how difficult it may be to get a metal gun barrel 3D printed, just that it's possible.
I believe that mention of a 3D printed gun implies it is plastic is as much of a failure that mention of a 3D printed gun implies every part was 3D printed. Every 3D printed gun I've seen, with that one notable exception, used common screws, springs, or some other kind of off the shelf parts to assemble it. Do people assume
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If I knew the terms, and were designing such a serial numbering system, I'd try to make at least part of the serial number in metal that needs to be hardened after machining, so that if you file that serial number off, you have a non-working gun.
That's actually already the case, if not in the way you're thinking of.
Serial numbers on firearms are already stamped in. Hardening can always be undone and redone.
The trick is, the stresses from the stamping process penetrate much deeper than the visible lettering. So criminal routinely "file off" the serial numbers, the police arrest them for having an illegal gun because filing the serial numbers off is illegal, then send the gun off to a lab where they retrieve the serial numbers by examining the meta