Amazon Forest Felled To Build Road For Climate Summit (bbc.com) 68
"A new four-lane highway cutting through tens of thousands of acres of protected Amazon rainforest is being built for the COP30 climate summit," reports the BBC, "in the Brazilian city of Belém."
The highway will ease traffic into the city, which will host over 50,000 people at the conference this November: The state government touts the highway's "sustainable" credentials, but some locals and conservationists are outraged at the environmental impact... Along the partially built road, lush rainforest towers on either side — a reminder of what was once there. Logs are piled high in the cleared land which stretches more than 13km (8 miles) through the rainforest into Belém.
Diggers and machines carve through the forest floor, paving over wetland to surface the road which will cut through a protected area... The road leaves two disconnected areas of protected forest. Scientists are concerned it will fragment the ecosystem and disrupt the movement of wildlife...
The state government of Pará had touted the idea of this highway, known as Avenida Liberdade, as early as 2012, but it had repeatedly been shelved because of environmental concerns. Now a host of infrastructure projects have been resurrected or approved to prepare the city for the COP summit.
But on the bright side, Adler Silveira, the state government's infrastructure secretary, said the highway would have wildlife crossings for animals to pass over, as well as climate-friendly bike lanes and solar-powered lighting...
The highway will ease traffic into the city, which will host over 50,000 people at the conference this November: The state government touts the highway's "sustainable" credentials, but some locals and conservationists are outraged at the environmental impact... Along the partially built road, lush rainforest towers on either side — a reminder of what was once there. Logs are piled high in the cleared land which stretches more than 13km (8 miles) through the rainforest into Belém.
Diggers and machines carve through the forest floor, paving over wetland to surface the road which will cut through a protected area... The road leaves two disconnected areas of protected forest. Scientists are concerned it will fragment the ecosystem and disrupt the movement of wildlife...
The state government of Pará had touted the idea of this highway, known as Avenida Liberdade, as early as 2012, but it had repeatedly been shelved because of environmental concerns. Now a host of infrastructure projects have been resurrected or approved to prepare the city for the COP summit.
But on the bright side, Adler Silveira, the state government's infrastructure secretary, said the highway would have wildlife crossings for animals to pass over, as well as climate-friendly bike lanes and solar-powered lighting...
it's a little bit ironic (Score:2)
WTF
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Just curious, can anyone describe the EV charger infrastructure that. Is planned to accommodate the (obviously) exclusively EV traffic this four lane highway is built to accommodate?
I'm curious about the carbon offsets for the greater traffic in and out of the newly-expanded airport also...
I'm positive they wouldn't pave paradise to put up a parking lot - would they?
I am curious why they felt the need to go all "Olympic city" for a climate conference, wouldn't it have been better to, you know, NOT have to b
Re:it's a little bit ironic (Score:4, Interesting)
Just curious, can anyone describe the EV charger infrastructure that. Is planned to accommodate the (obviously) exclusively EV traffic this four lane highway is built to accommodate?
In fact, Brazil is the leader in biofuel for automotive use. [nhk.or.jp].
In principle, biofuels (primarily ethanol) are low-carbon-emission fuels. In practice, this very much depends on how they're manufactured... and whether you cut down forest to grow the crops for the biofuels.
...
I am curious why they felt the need to go all "Olympic city" for a climate conference, wouldn't it have been better to, you know, NOT have to built a massive infrastructure to accommodate a one-time conference?
They're not building the infrastructure just for the conference. They were building the infrastructure already. Brazil is a third-world country that's working hard to transition itself to first-world.They're just using the COP conference as a way to grab headlines for what they were already doing.
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Zoom call.
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What, did you want them to walk??
So strange. Looking at the map, it's insanely obvious that this new road is not needed and has almost no benefit. The current route takes a car 21 km and 27 minutes to drive. The direct route through the rain forest cuts the 21 km to 13 km. That's right, there's already a well-developed road through the already developed city.
no (Score:3, Informative)
Not only is this old news, it has also already been debunked a few times. This road was already planned a long time ago, way before the summit was even appointed. So yes, the news is that they felled a forest to build a road, but dragging the climate summit into this is just a trumpian naarrative
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
When the people building this highway make statements like this, the debunkings you prefer to believe aren't very credible.
Adler Silveira, the state government's infrastructure secretary, listed this highway as one of 30 projects happening in the city to "prepare" and "modernise" it, so "we can have a legacy for the population and, more importantly, serve people for COP30 in the best possible way".
Also, love how he states the quiet part out loud and prioritizes the COP30 grandees over Brazil's citizens.
I'm sure the logging companies will greatly appreciate their new highway after all the COP30 folk jet off to their next newly built city. Should speed up the removal of the rest that vegetation by years.
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Re: no (Score:5, Insightful)
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Like when California suddenly figured out how to clean up their homeless problem in SF briefly when the Chinese leaders came to town?
https://sfstandard.com/2023/11... [sfstandard.com]
Irving they COULD clean up their homeless problem streets of SF, they simply choose not to...
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I'm sure the logging companies will greatly appreciate their new highway after all the COP30 folk jet off to their next newly built city. Should speed up the removal of the rest that vegetation by years.
What is hilarious is the entire premise of this is like some sort of GOTCHYA, you hypocrites! .
When in fact, it's a ridiculous idea when some people frame that environmentalists have no choice other than going back to hunter gatherer times, or they are hypocrites. It's like how AlGore had people yapping because he flew in a plane at some point.
The other funny thing is I'm pretty certain that most of the people hand wringing about this don't give a fsck about the rain forest. They just think it is a w
Re: no (Score:2)
Re: no (Score:4, Insightful)
"In my area, where there is strip mining, the law is that when finished, you have to grade and replant". I'm guessing you don't live in a pristine rainforest? Replanting NEVER looks like the original and as another poster mentions, once you build a bloody great road through, it will be used to plunder further and further into the jungle
Non sequitur. If you believe that no trees ever be removed, it is a different issue.
Yet there is no reason whatsoever that that the Amazon must be "pristine". It makes perfection be the mortal enemy of good. And it is way too late for that. Some 18 percent of it is logged already. And what prevents replanting trees and vegetation that has been removed?
https://www.arborday.org/persp... [arborday.org].
What is needed is forest management not a "don't you dare touch the forest!" outlook. https://news.mongabay.com/2025... [mongabay.com]
An ideal situation is of course leaving it alone. The Amazon rainforest is considered the planet's "lungs". But it is obvious by now that Brazil cannot stop deforestation by simple edict. Otherwise, you'll be wringing your hands when there isn't much rain forest left. And the savannah that takes over surely doesn't look like the rainforest it replaced. We don't control Brazil, so we have to work with them. And reforestation works, even if it is not exactly like what went before.
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The other funny thing is I'm pretty certain that most of the people hand wringing about this don't give a fsck about the rain forest. They just think it is a way to jab at their enemy.
Who, exactly, is "wringing about this"?
Environmentalists (apparently) think this is a good thing (we have to pave the rainforest in order to save the rainforest!).
Critics of environmentalists are mocking this.
The only people "upset" about this seems to be the locals, and they seem rightly upset, since it directly affects them, since, you know, they live there and these changes directly affects them.
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Who, exactly, is "wringing about this"? Environmentalists (apparently) think this is a good thing (we have to pave the rainforest in order to save the rainforest!).
Actual environmentalists are pretty much uniformly opposed to this. I don't believe any of them think it's a good thing.
Most of them think the COP is pretty useless; that it's all about talking as a substitute for actually doing anything.
Re: no (Score:1)
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Also, love how he states the quiet part out loud and prioritizes the COP30 grandees over Brazil's citizens.
Hardly. Even TFS notes that this highway has been proposed since 2012. You don't think they had a crystal ball that predicted they will be hosting the COP some 13 years later did you? The reality is far more mundane than the "quiet part" conspiracy. People use upcoming events to push out infrastructure projects. But in this case it isn't even that. COP30 may be driving the completion deadline, but it wasn't driving the underlying cause. Precisely no one builds a 4 lane highway for such a small event. This i
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*well yes 10s of thousands of people. But the point remains the same.
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Even TFS notes that this highway has been proposed since 2012.
Proposed and actually building it are two different things. But clearly the road is being built to do more than serve one environmental conference of 50,000 people.
What it demonstrates is how unlikely it is that we will actually ever control climate change. Its just an example of the assumption, even by the supposed leaders of the effort, that it can be accomplished without inconveniencing people. In particular, wealthy and powerful people like them. The road is small potatoes. Most of those 50,000 are goi
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only is this old news, it has also already been debunked a few times. This road was already planned a long time ago, way before the summit was even appointed. So yes, the news is that they felled a forest to build a road, but dragging the climate summit into this is just a trumpian naarrative
Is it possible you got that idea from the summary itself?
"The state government of Pará had touted the idea of this highway, known as Avenida Liberdade, as early as 2012, but it had repeatedly been shelved because of environmental concerns. Now a host of infrastructure projects have been resurrected or approved to prepare the city for the COP summit."
Turns out there's a second sentence you might want to read.
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So the fact that they've planned this road 30 years ago but only went forward for the climate conference somehow negates the environmental impact? Really? You may want to step back and reconsider your position.
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Are you accusing the BBC of advancing american-right-wing narratives?
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So yes, the news is that they felled a forest to build a road, but dragging the climate summit into this is just a trumpian naarrative
Right. Forests and climate are totally unrelated. Nobody would have ever made this connection if not for Trump LOL.
Err no (Score:4, Informative)
The highway was approved in 2020 and started construction before Brazil was announced as the COP30 leader. Look there's so much shit going on in the world already without spreading environmental fake news. Resorting to the claim that Brazil can plan, approve, prep, and build a highway in under 2 years is not just hysterical, it's giving them credit where they deserve none.
No one builds a 4 lane highway just for an event that attracts 200 people. Spreading claims like this diminishes the impact the climate movement has.
But sure, let's get outrated over 0.52 square km loss of rainforest to build a road (13km x 40m wide), in a country where 6,288 square km of rainforest was actually felled last year. You're playing right into the government's hand ignoring the massive actual problems while raging over a road.
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Tell that to Adler Silveira.
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Are you claiming that the BBC is spreading fake news?
No, it's just spreading the story of the day, without a deeper analysis. That's the problem with the modern news cycle. Even when it's not fake it rarely is a complete story.
Re: Err no (Score:2)
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Sure, but the thing being presented doesn't actually even exist. There is no road being built specifically for any climate summit.
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Is it not possible to rage at everything that destroys the forest? This being one of them
Yep, then lets post a story about the dramatic deforestation that is occurring in Brazil, rather than a pointless story about some highway that doesn't even qualify as a rounding error of the damage. I want to talk about the deforestation story. That's an environmental catastrophe of epic proportions and is largely not done so people can drive somewhere. That discussion would be relevant, unlike this hysteria.
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Yep, then lets post a story about the dramatic deforestation that is occurring in Brazil
But lets completely ignore the fact they are having a climate conference there. Clearly not germane to the issue at hand.
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I think they ran with it because its funny and ironic.
Letting gangs of literal criminals deforest and sell everything is not as funny.
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I think they ran with it because its funny and ironic.
I'd rather they run with something because it's true, but that's expecting too much these days.
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Spreading claims like this diminishes the impact the climate movement has.
The climate movement does not need help with that, they are doing fine on their own. Somewhere there is a priceless artwork missing its soup.
But sure, let's get outrated over 0.52 square km loss of rainforest to build a road (13km x 40m wide), in a country where 6,288 square km of rainforest was actually felled last year.
Optics are a thing. Ignore that at your peril.
Fake News (Score:4, Interesting)
#BBC is the nations least trusted broadcaster and propagandist.
This is a lie , it was not built for COP it was built for mining vehicles.
Not great either but once again the BBC shows its true racism and untrustworthiness.
Re: Fake News (Score:2)
Isn’t it ironic .. (Score:1)
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Re: How is the fallacy called? (Score:2)
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Let he who has not sinned throw the first stone.
The audacity! (Score:2)
How dare those trees grow in the way of a mining road?! And in the middle of a climate summit, too! Don't they. Know they're bad for the environment???
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So it is a government action, clearly no business itself would waste money like this
Really? Clearly you haven't seen what goes on [youtube.com] in the upper echelons of mahogany row? The difference is: That's private investors money. Don't like it? Sell your stock. You can't do that as easily with a bunch of unelected delegates that governments send to these things. On the other hand; "Go Doge!".
Pity it wasn't to be built in Africa... (Score:3)
Three bureaucrats from Africa, China and India meet at an international conference. They all happen to be concerned with building a road to connect the new airport in their country and the town it is to serve. They agree to visit each other projects when they are complete.
The African and Indian land in China and are met by their friend in a very comfortable BMW. They notice that the dual carriageway has a few cracks but barely notable, and they enjoy his hospitality in a well appointed large house.
Moving on to India, they are met by their friend in a top of the range Rolls Royce. The single lane road is potholed but is entirely satisfactory in their car. Their hospitality is in a very large town house.
Arriving in Africa they are taken in a helicopter to their friend's country estate over virgin forest around the airport. Looking hard they can see the old, rutted gravel road...
COP Delegates: World Police (Score:2)
They couldn't just ... (Score:3)
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Why not a zoom call? Consider the thousands of tons of CO2 spewed by all those private jets.
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If they accomplish anything, even something relatively small it more than pays for the private jets - on a global scale the cost of the whole lifetime of all the jets involved amounts to a rounding error of tiny gains. If they accomplish anything; otherwise, it's a waste. Not a complete waste because it is at least an attempt and draws attention to the topic. A complete waste would be an OPEC meeting.
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on a global scale the cost of the whole lifetime of all the jets involved amounts to a rounding error of tiny gains.
Much like my vacation then.
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If they accomplish anything, even something relatively small it more than pays for the private jets
Any evidence for that? We are talking about what is accomplished by each individual that wouldn't be accomplished if they had not flown to the conference. During the time COPS has been meeting the world's emissions have increased every year. Those emissions have all come as a result of accumulated "rounding errors."
We need to be clear, the problem is not hypocrisy. The problem is that there is no realistic solution given the assumption that we can end global warming while people go on with their lives unch
Air travel invented (Score:2)
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but "fucking hypocrite climate leaders tooling around in private jets to climate summits from their homes with carbon footprint of a dozen or more families" is absolutely accurate
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Greenies prefer Talking Heads (Score:2)
Brazil has a long history of implementing the lyrics of Big Yellow Taxi: "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot". So, nothing new to see here.
This used to be real estate
Now, it's only fields and trees
Where, where is the town?
Now, it's nothing but flowers
BBC = Babylon Bee Company? (Score:2)
You can't make this stuff up.
Soo... (Score:2)
Adler Silveira is retarded. Got it.
Always watchs what the loudest people DO... (Score:3)
rather than being dazzled by what they SAY.
The climate people, who swear the planet is being doomed by greenhouse gas emissions, are constantly boarding jets (often expensive, more-polluting, private chartered ones) and flying to meetings in exotic locations, often places known as great vacation/cultural/tourism spots. It's as though nobody ever created a big building [ UN building in NYC [cough] ] where representatives from all over the world can find a way to meet and discuss things, and which is well-served by the less-polluting-per-pasenger and cheaper commercial airlines, and even accessible by wind-powered globe-spanning vehicles called "sail boats"
Rather than meeting in a place that was built ONCE and is available for such meetings, they constantly jet-off to places where new stuff gets built at great cost and with unnecessary new emissions to accommodate them. One might start to suspect that it's more about THEM than this global climate cause they wrap themselves in. Just how many take family members on these trips? How many arrive early or stay late and take part in activities NOT involving policy discussion meetings? Are boxed lunches served, or is gourmet dining involved? Just what sort of personal lifestyles are these VIPs living? Do they each live in an energy-efficient apartment that's the minimum they NEED and conserve energy by only using appliances in certain hours and walking or using mass transit most of the time? In other words: do they inconvenience themselves and limit their own lifestyles to at least the levels they insist upon for others? Remember: THEY insist the planet is on the line here.
If these people were honestly serious about their global climate concerns, they'd stay home and fire-up a teleconference app.