Trump Administration Plans To End the IRS Direct File Program for Free Tax Filing (apnews.com) 260
The Trump administration plans to eliminate the IRS' Direct File program, an electronic system for filing tax returns directly to the agency for free, AP reported Wednesday, citing two people familiar with the decision. From the report: The program developed during Joe Biden's presidency was credited by users with making tax filing easy, fast and economical. But Republican lawmakers and commercial tax preparation companies complained it was a waste of taxpayer money because free filing programs already exist, although they are hard to use.
Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Informative)
about having to pay, in order to pay your taxes.
Technically you can still do it all on paper (and then it only costs you a first class stamp to submit), but only those with very simple returns are likely to get all the various calculations correct.
The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Paper forms are free to the filer, but much more expensive for the IRS to process.
The free-filing IRS system was a win-win for the IRS and the taxpayer. But the Turbotax people probably paid better bribes.
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Paper forms are free to the filer, but much more expensive for the IRS to process.
The free-filing IRS system was a win-win for the IRS and the taxpayer. But the Turbotax people probably paid better bribes.
Considering "the program [was] developed during Joe Biden's presidency", I don't think Turbotax would have wasted any money on something that Trump was already going to tear down.
Re: Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering "the program [was] developed during Joe Biden's presidency", I don't think Turbotax would have wasted any money on something that Trump was already going to tear down.
Trump's M.O. is waffling on a sure thing while sticking his hand out, for power, recognition, or whatever... certainly not giving things away for free.
I wish that was hyperbole, it's not.
If you want the tariffs, what can you do for Trump. If you don't want the tariffs, what can you do for Trump. It's in the public interest because Trump staying in power is in the public interest - a key part of his legal defense at his first impeachment hearing.
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Paper forms are free to the filer, but much more expensive for the IRS to process.
The free-filing IRS system was a win-win for the IRS and the taxpayer. But the Turbotax people probably paid better bribes.
The tax preparation software vendors fought the idea of an IRS free filing solution from the start (it is all about the money, of course). This was the first year that the ability to use it expanded to a larger number of states, and it was not promoted, so many people who might have been eligible did not know the option existed. It was way too early to know if the offering was going to be a success (however you defined success) and pull the plug on the program.
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This is why I pirate TurboTax. Fuck them. lol.
Before you freak about the security implications I do a fresh install on a fresh VM with no data then I disable networking and go to town.
Print out a PDF, sign, mail, done.
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The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
That would be the incorrect solution, but you are close. The government already knows what you owe or if you're stupid, what you get back. Why do you need to file them? Let the government mail you what is going on. Stop wasting your time and letting corporations profit off of this stupid shit.
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That would be the incorrect solution, but you are close. The government already knows what you owe or if you're stupid, what you get back. Why do you need to file them?
Because they *don't* know what you owe.
They know what I owe in some limited cases, for example a job that reports it to the government.
Very little else is automatically reported to the IRS for you.
How are they supposed to know I ordered a soldering iron without giving the government far more spying powers than they have now?
Even if they knew, how are they supposed to know WHY I bought it?
If it's for me personally, well I paid sales tax at the store so it isn't my problem.
If it's for my self owned business h
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
They know what I owe in some limited cases, for example a job that reports it to the government.
For millions of people that is the only information they really need.
Very little else is automatically reported to the IRS for you.
For most people everything is reported. If you have a IRA, that is reported. If you have an HSA, that is reported. If you get social security, that is reported. If you get paid interest, that is reported. If you get dividends, that is reported. If you get health insurance credits, that is reported. I think even capital gains are reported. Some tax credits are reported.
The small minority of people who claim deductions may still need to file and even then they might have to file one form with their claimed deductions either before or after returns are sent. But for most of us, the IRS could just bill us.
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Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
The government already knows what you owe or if you're stupid, what you get back.
Perhaps, if you live alone in a rented apartment, have only W2 income from your job(s), have no dependents, do not have taxable income from investments, don't contribute to charity, and take a standard deduction. Otherwise there are things the government doesn't know that will save you money if you file and tell them.
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Over here in Europe the income from my investments is already filed to the IRS, likewise charities also report to the IRS which means that the vast majority can just say OK to the tax form sent from the IRS while a minority have to fill in additional information for deductions but then they only have to fill in that information so it is still much less hassle and work than it is in the US. The only reason this is done differently in the US is the TurboTax lobbyists.
If a person's income is simple, their taxes are simple, no problem. I have many documents to file, and the Govmint doesn't know about them until I tell them.
I have oil well properties, and it gets kinda complicated. It isn't just that I made XXX dollars on them, so my tax is XXX dollars. It's a matter of perspective and use case. There is depreciation some times, and appreciation in others. Sometimes expenses, sometimes not.
Then to cap it off, I'm semi retired, and while collecting Social Security, I'm
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Let's not let you stand in the way of improving tax filing for 99% of the rest of the population. And even then things can benefit greatly from pre-filling what is already known.
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Yup.
This "it's simple" thought ignores a bunch of people. My taxes are so complicated that I have an accountant, though they do more than just my taxes.
And no, no... It's not some super-duper luxury expense. The costs are quite reasonable for them to keep my books, file my taxes, etc... It's a couple hundred dollars a month. Considering how much this reduces my tax burden, it's worth it.
Could I do it myself? Sure, I probably could. I don't want to keep up with the various rule changes that are constantly taking place nor do I want to spend my time doing so. It's a solid investment, from my perspective.
Anyone with any complicated taxes might just want to consider hiring a professional.
Certainly having a knowledgeable person or company do your taxes can save you money when they are complicated.
And as I told thegarbz, if you can do a simple 1040, you can already get free preparation for federal, state, along with free filing. https://turbotax.intuit.com/pe... [intuit.com] .
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Over here in Europe the income from my investments is already filed to the IRS, likewise charities also report to the IRS which means that the vast majority can just say OK to the tax form sent from the IRS while a minority have to fill in additional information for deductions but then they only have to fill in that information so it is still much less hassle and work than it is in the US. The only reason this is done differently in the US is the TurboTax lobbyists.
The main reason the US tax code is so complex is that it provides cover for rich people to lower their effective taxes. A straightforward system like what the Europeans have makes ducking taxes harder. In the US, even the IRS doesn't really know if some complex deduction or tax shelter scheme is legitimate or not. That's the key motivation behind the spaghetti tax code. It all about maximizing the "gray" area of tax shelters.
Only rich people with their tax advisors can take advantage of the gray area, and since most poor people don't have tax liabilities, that effectively increases the tax burden on the middle class.
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a tax lawyer, and my stock in trade is handling the "spaghetti code" and dealing in the grey areas.
There are two primary reasons why the tax code is so complex: 1) Congress uses the tax code to pursue non-tax objectives (promoting some policy or discouraging some other policy), and 2) tax accounting does not follow book accounting in the U.S. The combination of these two things then requires quite a few provisions that are created for the purpose of preventing tax abuse, which are often over or under broad, requiring things like "exceptions to exceptions." Congress tends to engage in non-tax activities through the tax code because of budget reconciliation rules that make tax law much easier to pass than other types of laws (does not require 60 votes in the Senate, just a bare 50+ the VP).
For example, in 2022 Congress passed the so-called "Inflation Reduction Act", which was mostly about creating tax credits for certain activities it wanted to promote. In order to pay for it, they imposed a corporate alternative minimum tax based on book income. That was done for the sound byte "no profitable corporation should pay less than 15% of its income in tax." Sounds simple enough, but to get it across the line they had to mix book and tax concepts because certain senators wanted to preserve certain accelerated tax depreciation incentives. That resulted in an impossibly complex parallel tax system, which sits on top of ANOTHER complex parallel tax system created by the OECD to stop tax abuse abroad (called "Pillar II").
The wealthiest do of course engage in tax planning, but the most egregious of it has nothing to do with complexity but fundamental precepts of how income taxes work: 1) borrowing is not income and therefore not taxed, and 2) you are not taxed on capital gains unless you have a "realization event" (i.e. selling a stock). The wealthiest have most of their wealth in unrealized capital gains (such as shares in a company you founded). It's relatively easy to just borrow off your shares to live and avoid ever having a realization event. You can also combine this with fact that tax basis is stepped up when the owner dies, so your heirs can inherit your shares without tax ever coming due.
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... take a standard deduction. Otherwise there are things the government doesn't know that will save you money if you file and tell them.
I think close to 90% of taxpayers take the standard deduction so charitable contributions are irrelevant. And most taxable income from investments is reported. Dependents are reported for withholding if you have a job.
Determining marriage filing status might not currently be available. But that could be handled by simply notifying the IRS and asking them to recompute taxes with the new status.
Some people might have to file or want to file. But even that could be simply filing a form for specific informati
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Even so, the IRS could pre-fill those items it does know about in the forms. And the IRS already knows about my capital gains, dividends, interest, wages (before I retired, anyway), tax withholdings, SS income, my wife's 1099 income, etc. The only thing they don't know about are my wife's business expenses. It'd be a lot easier to just attach those numbers and documentation to an electronic fo
Re: Something fundamentally wrong (Score:3)
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Why do you need to file them?
To demonstrate your obedience.
Republicans want FairTax (Score:2)
The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
I'm under the impression that Republicans in Congress benefit from a perception that compliance with the tax code is expensive. This helps them drum up support for FairTax, their proposal to replace the federal income tax with a value-added tax (VAT) plus a universal basic income (UBI) equal to the VAT on spending at the federal poverty level.
Re:Republicans want FairTax (Score:5, Informative)
Technically correct point of order, FairTax is not a VAT, they are both consumption taxes but they operate pretty differently, one that FairTax is collected at the point of sale and VAT is collected through the business process steps as items change hands, thus whats taxed is the "Value added at each stage" .
I wish I lived in the universe where the Republican Congressional platform was a UBI funded with a change to VAT system but it ain't this one.
(not that VAT is perfect, it has issues but it has advantages over an income tax also)
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I'm under the impression that Republicans in Congress benefit from a perception that compliance with the tax code is expensive. This helps them drum up support for FairTax, their proposal to replace the federal income tax with a value-added tax (VAT) plus a universal basic income (UBI) equal to the VAT on spending at the federal poverty level.
FairTax is not a VAT, it's a fixed-rate sales tax.
The estimated tax rate for it to be revenue-neutral was calculated to be around 20-30% IIRC, meaning that it would not work well as sales tax. Sales tax rates that high would cause significant tax evasion.
It would work if implemented as VAT though since VAT by its nature has a mechanism of cross-reporting that naturally creates an audit trail for transactions which deters evasion. VATs in practice have often rates over 20% which would be unrealistic as sales
Re:Something fundamentally wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
about having to pay, in order to pay your taxes.
Technically you can still do it all on paper (and then it only costs you a first class stamp to submit), but only those with very simple returns are likely to get all the various calculations correct.
The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
I would argue that the correct solution is to compel the government to release the source code for its free filing system using a FOIA request, put the whole thing on GitHub under an "all contributions are explicitly in the public domain" license, and then start working on making it solve the tax preparation problems for everyone, not just the relatively small percentage of people that it currently supports.
Because that would solve very nearly all of the problems very rapidly:
Anything I'm missing?
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It would mean that every company that produces W-2s and 1099-* forms could add support for their versions of the forms
What? You think corporations/individuals have their own 'versions' of the form?
I don't think you understand how federal tax forms work, everyone uses the same forms, the same 'version' if you will...
I'm not talking about the forms that companies file with the IRS. I'm talking about the forms that the companies send you. And no, those aren't standardized. Not by a long shot. They theoretically have the same information, give or take. But that's not the same thing as actually being standardized in terms of the format, the layout, how the data is represented, etc.
My W-2s have all been pretty much standardized except for perhaps what the letter codes mean (not sure about that). But those are also a d
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The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
That's because tax prep is a cottage industry. Intuit, H&R Block, and lots of others want us to have ultra-complex tax codes so they can continue to sell their solutions... which means they're making contributions to the Appropriations Committees and Subcommittees, and anyone else who could influence what's in that tax code.
Of course, if you really want to cause a taxpayer revolt, end the process of income tax withholding. Let everyone get their full paychecks without any money held back for taxes and
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Of course, if you really want to cause a taxpayer revolt, end the process of income tax withholding. Let everyone get their full paychecks without any money held back for taxes and force them to write a check every month. It won't take long before people demand better budget accountability.
Lots of people need to do that already, at least quarterly. They're all self-employed.
I prefer withholding, thankyouverymuch. Less hassle or chance of penalty for underpaying or paying late.
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If you're self employed you're supposed to send quarterly estimated tax. If this doesn't cover your tax liability you can be fined and required to pay interest.
This is the way the system is supposed to work is that *everyone* pays more than their tax will be and has to file to get the overpayment back at the end of the year. If you're rich enough there are accounting tricks you can use to hold onto your money, but that doesn't apply to 99% of taxpayers.
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Developed countries do it online on a pre-filled form on their IRS-equivalent website, for free, since a decade.
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The correct solution would be to simplify/rationalize the tax code, but we all know that is not going to happen.
The correct solution is automated reporting like in many other countries. I just receive my tax estimate every year and get asked if I want to accept it, amend something, or apply for some unaccounted for deductions. Our tax code is quite insane here, but it only takes me a few minutes to do my tax return, and that's despite having multiple investment properties, shares, fringe benefits, company cars, and private deductions.
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How does the IRS verify our taxes that we submit? Ok, then just give us that software. Done. You're welcome.
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Liars lie (Score:5, Insightful)
More or less every taxable transaction for the vast majority of people is already in a government database. Having you do your own taxes unless you're advising the government of taxable activity outside their knowledge is a waste of time.
You know whose time it isn't wasting? Tax-prep companies that make a mint off of charging you to have some minimum-wage clerk run your forms through tax-prep software that you could use just as effectively yourself if you're not a drooling moron. Those companies have more influence than you do on government.
If you have a tax situation that is complex enough to worry about - you should be hiring a proper tax accountant and not going to the tax prep pop-up at the mall.
Re:Liars lie (Score:5, Interesting)
More or less every taxable transaction for the vast majority of people is already in a government database.
Indeed. I've had typos on my return and they get rejected shortly after being submitted. I still don't get - if they immediately know what I submitted is wrong, then why do I have to submit at all?
Re:Liars lie (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Liars lie (Score:4, Interesting)
Same in the UK. No need to file a tax return unless earning above a threshold, and vast majority of the workforce is below the threshold,
Actually, this isn't entirely true. Whilst it is the case in the UK that you have to submit a tax return if you earn over a certain threshold (currently about $66,000 equivalent) there are other reasons why you might need to. The most common ones are: none-salary income such as rent from a lodger and being self-employed. I believe that about 30% of UK adults fall into one or more of these categories whilst the rest of us simply have it all worked out by our employers and the government and get the tax deducted directly from our pay. All of the figures are available for us to check if we think that there might have been an error.
I am nearing retirement age and I have never had to submit tax return but my wife has to submit one each year as she is self employed. She can do this entirely online via a gov.uk website and it typically takes her about half an hour once a year - although her submission is very simple and she is able to leave most of the boxes blank. I suspect that for someone with a more complex business it might take a couple of hours once they have gathered the required information from their accounts.
I will admit that I find all of this American fretting about the costs and complexity of filing your tax returns very funny!
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Or even better, push the brackets back up to about the place they started.
In the beginning, the lowest bracket that even had to file at all was high enough that you probably already had an accountant, so the burden of filing was small.
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I'm not stinking rich (no diamond-collared purse dogs in my house, no private jet sitting out back, etc.) I'm OK with paying taxes, because I get my healthcare and other government services that make living here fairly nice.
I think maybe the floor should come up a bit, because right now it's set to about half the poverty level. And I think we need a wealth tax to bring billionaires back down to Earth with the rest of us, but definitely there's a point in collecting tax from people who shouldn't need an ac
Well Trump supporters (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell me why this is a good thing?
Re: Well Trump supporters (Score:2)
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Because we are not billionaires with permanent teams of accountants handling the details of our money for us.
/MAGA
Peasants deserve punishment for their failure to achieve proper wealth. Leaching off of our betters is not acceptable.
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"This isn't a socialist hellhole."
It sure isn't, and only Republicans would suggest otherwise. Trump, doing his best to make socialism a relative utopia.
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"This isn't a socialist hellhole."
It sure isn't, and only Republicans would suggest otherwise. Trump, doing his best to make socialism a relative utopia.
Which is essentially what they are doing with this. Because it's free, to them it's socialism.
I realize I forgot to add the /s tag at the end of my comments because they were supposed to be sarcastic. Voice inflections don't translate well to mere words.
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It's not... free... we all....
Sometimes I forget that you stupid fucks spend so much time hating taxes that you don't actually know what they are used for.
Re:Well Trump supporters (Score:5, Informative)
Because if you can do it for free on TurboTax.
The problem is the qualifier "if you can do it free" part. You mean the same TurboTax that was sued by the government [ftc.gov] for deceptive practices that promised customers a "free" filing but charged them anyway.
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Re: Well Trump supporters (Score:2)
You can't do it free on Turbo Tax though, not really. Not only is the product filled with dark patterns to get you to waste all your time in the app only to come to the end to find out you don't qualify for the free product, but they also have an upsell for something like "audit review". I've heard from about half a dozen cases where someone skipped that upsell and got audited.
I think what's going on is because Turbo Tax doesn't follow the format of the government forms, their wizards lead you astray and sh
Re: Well Trump supporters (Score:5, Informative)
But to have something that only half the states could use is really unfair to the rest, and just weird.
To be fair, all 50 states were invited. And 2024 was a pilot program. I'm pretty confident that all the States would have gotten onboard had the program lived.
Re: Well Trump supporters (Score:2)
The federal system works with pretty much any tax situation you might find yourself in, and it's completely free for everyone.
Shouldn't Need to File (Score:5, Insightful)
In many countries, most individuals don't actually have to file tax returns and the U.S. should follow suit. It's an entirely unnecessary exercise for more than half of individual filers.
The government already knows how much you made unless you have some unreported income (such as a side hustle) and most individuals no longer itemize deductions. For W-2 employees with wages below a certain point (~$200kish), the government should just send a simple tax statement for you to review in March. If you have nothing additional to declare, you should just be able accept it and receive your refund (or pay additional tax as applicable).
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Re: Shouldn't Need to File (Score:2)
Yeah, cutting taxes won't do shit. It exacerbates the problem by creating new rules, exemptions, and schedules.
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The government already knows how much you made unless you have some unreported income (such as a side hustle).
And I bet the fraction of people that actually report that side hustle is pretty low.
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Re: Shouldn't Need to File (Score:2)
Most side hustles have been moving to the gig/app economy, where the service providers are required to gather tax info for their contractors if they make more than like $600 in the year.
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There are credits and deductions that apply even if you don't itemize as well as a number of situations surrounding tax deferred funds like HSA's and retirement accounts. Not to mention even rudimentary tax planning utilizing llc's/sole props/partnerships. The government always assumes everything was taxable unless you tell them otherwise. One year turbotax left a box listing my qualified deductions empty and just filled the summary that no tax was due... sure enough, 6 months later the IRS has recalculate
It's so the companies.. (Score:5, Insightful)
In other news (Score:2, Troll)
I like how quiet trumpers have gotten. Outside of their safe spaces they just keep their damn mouth shut. Once in a while one of them will post AC some nonsense troll garbage or try to use a thought terminating cliche without knowing what that is but for the most part they just keep their heads down while waiting for the shit to hit the fan like they know it will but they just can't quit Trump.
A lot of these people have lost friends and family to their wors
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"Trump supporters aren't allowed to talk here."
LOL you're so persecuted.
"Even if someone is only suspected of supporting Trump they get brigaded and systematically downvoted until they can't post or their posts are simply invisible."
And yet that's even remotely how /. works.
"Then you jackasses claim nobody supports Trump."
Absolutely no one claims that other than embarrassed Trumpers.
"In any debate, if you want to know who is lying, it's the guy trying to silence the other side."
Right, Trumpers. They love p
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You know that's honestly not impossible anymore (Score:3, Informative)
Now I'm not so fucking naived as to think that it's going to hit the average trumper directly. I mean even in Nazi Germany 90% of people managed to survive world war II.
I just don't think there's any point in having any sort of discussion with the Trump supporter anymore. If you watch that
Re: You know that's honestly not impossible anymor (Score:2)
It might be time for patriotic Americans to send their surplus guns to MS-13 in El Salvador.
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Right along with the Hitler supporters, Papa Doc supporters and the Kim Jong Un supporters. I'll throw in Imelda Marcos for good measure.
Perhaps you might recognize a distinct pattern there.
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you jackasses
wHy dO My pOstS kEEp geTtInG dOWnVoTeD!?!?!?
Re: In other news (Score:3)
If your posts are being hidden, then why am I reading this drivel?
The free ones aren't free (Score:3, Informative)
just here for the lulz at this point (Score:3, Informative)
it's certainly a move that looks like it may pave the way to eliminating income tax, which plays well with the dumbasses, but really it's just another move to fuck up the government worse.
I don't suppose the Americans among you actually realise this yet, but you actually don't have a government any more. The real part of government, the part that actually does the work of governance, the civil service? It's destroyed. You were supposed to be out on the streets to protect it, but you couldn't be arsed, and now you don't have a government. You blinked and missed it, and now Trump got the hard part done with no resistance. You won't resist what's next either.
The ignorant, who have never had a job in government or even a job, will argue. Those who have been to the top will know. There's maybe three people in any given ministry that actually understand how the whole thing works, and they're all gone. You are COMPLETELY fucked.
Hear it or don't. It's too late, it doesn't matter now, and what's coming is inevitable (the collapse of America). If you're stupid enough to think otherwise, remember this moment. There were others telling you, and you did not listen. It's on you.
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Tax reform is not incompatible with good government, but saying it is "plays well with the dumbasses".
"Hear it or don't. It's too late, "
Says the non-American. Hope those rubles spend well for you. The first time I heard this message it was from Putin himself.
this is what oligarchs do (Score:5, Insightful)
So, all that briXXXlobbying has paid off (Score:5, Informative)
Now all these companies can get right back to misleading and gouging taxpayers and then selling their personal details to data brokers.
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Filing taxes is only free and simple if you are broke, single, and bad at finances. The government only knows when you've been paid by certain parties and what was withheld. But they don't really know why, they don't know what you've spent and voluntary disclosures and they don't know where you've lost money.
The tax code is complicated, much of it is ambiguous and none of it is designed to be accurately parsed by the layman. Did you know you can withdraw up to $5k from your retirement account if YOU FEEL yo
Manually filing taxes is silly (Score:3)
We shouldn't even have to manually file tax returns - the government should be calculating it for us and sending us a tax bill. The couple times I've messed up my taxes the government has corrected it for me and sent me a bigger return than I asked for - why did I have to waste an hour or two filling in the form wrong when they already knew what the correct amount was going to be?
There are some edge cases like self employed or people who have special situations, but those people can file amendments when the government provides them with the incorrect numbers. Better those few do it manually than making 300 million people do it manually when only a couple percent are actually unknown to the government.
Re: Manually filing taxes is silly (Score:2)
If you just skip filing taxes, the government will eventually do your taxes for you and send a bill. Given the limits to late payment interest, your better off investing that money and waiting for a bill.
The whole country is a joke now (Score:3)
Beg the question much? (Score:2)
The other existing free programs are not hard to use and the direct file program is not widely credited as easy. It's a closed and proprietary violation of privacy. The government has no business knowing anything but the information on your final version of the tax form.
They shouldn't be able to use [possibly erroneous] data entered on drafts and when comparing different options for if and how to claim deductions and the inferences they can derive from such against taxpayers.
I just used it (Score:3)
It's pretty solid. When I used Turbo Tax, I had difficulty finding the appropriate places to report things since Turbo Tax forms have no relation to actual tax forms. I would know I qualified for deductions or credits that the wizard never led me to.
The federal tool uses actual government forms. It doesn't try to do much for you, but I honestly prefer that. It does basic calculations, copies some info from form to form for you, and generally was a pleasant experience.
A couple notable missteps:
I couldn't figure out why I couldn't finish the final form (1040) without searching Google. Turns out you have to tab over the next step before you can say "done" with the 1040.
Some of the visual indicators for fields that are calculated or locked took a bit of fiddling to recognize what they were trying to tell me.
Coupled with DOGE cuts ... (Score:5, Informative)
Making it harder / more expensive for regular people to file their taxes electronically, while cutting the staff processing returns, especially paper returns, and cutting knowledgeable staff who audit returns, especially the more complex returns of wealthy people is really going to save the government money. /s
I guess it will save some people money, just not regular people ...
DOGE’s IRS cuts will cost the average American a fortune [thehill.com]
Roughly 70 percent of the personnel cuts thus far have been in enforcement, which will make it easier to avoid detection for the millionaire and billionaire tax cheats who evade an estimated $150 billion in taxes every year. It is estimated that every dollar cut from enforcement costs five to nine dollars in revenue. So if Musk tries to cut $10 billion from IRS enforcement spending, he will be risking $50-90 billion in lost revenue each year. That’s a strange strategy for someone who claims he wants to make the government more cost-efficient.
The Inflation Reduction Act’s restored funding for the IRS yielded successes. As of last summer, the agency had collected over $1 billion just from 1,600 millionaires who owed but had failed to pay at least $250,000 each. It also informed Microsoft that it owed $29 billion in back taxes and had plans to increase audits on big companies (those worth more than $250 million), large partnerships (those with over $10 million in assets) and individuals with income over $10 million.
Too bad everyone couldn't file on paper (Score:2)
That would surely overwhelm the system.
Looking at the big picture? (Score:2)
I'm so frustrated with the entire income tax system that I'm liable to support pretty much anything that helps cripple the IRS and hopefully leads to its demise.
I mean, at the very core of it? It's absolutely insane that we have this "voluntary" tax system where if you make a mistake reporting what you believe you owe them, you're penalized for it. And if it turns out they owe you? You're never returned interest on your money they improperly hung onto. Meanwhile, it's complex enough so many people are unabl
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For 99.99% of all Americans there is absolutely nothing complicated about the tax system. You fill out one form with absolutely zero math to do, and then you go on about your life.
Stop crying like a baby.
Re:Looking at the big picture? (Score:5, Informative)
What are you talking about? I file my taxes by paper (it's really not hard after the first time. Get a mentor, parent, or professional to help the first item), have a small business, crypto transactions, and a few other things. I've made mistakes both in my favor and in the gov's favor. Both times they corrected it. When that happens they send you a letter saying we changed X and you have X months to contact us if you disagree. If you end up being owed a larger refund than they paid out they do also pay you interest. Do you have problems that were handled differently?
The reason our tax system sucks is because people like you keep trying to tear it down. Other people have been trying to have the IRS send you your details so all you need to do is confirm them but no, we can't give them any funds nor staffing to do those projects. It's amazing how you're causing the problems you claim to be against.
Our taxes are highly slanted towards the top earners. The top 10% pay 72% (4 trillion) of the country's taxes. You would have to add something like 30% taxes to all products for the general population to make up IRS' 5.2 trillion revenue (customers spent 17.512 trillion in 2022, couldn't find 2024's numbers). The bottom 50% pays an average rate of 4%. Increasing their costs by 26% would instantly cause people from the middle class and down to be unable to afford food and a revolt would break out in under two weeks. While that would make taxes simple, it would destroy the rest of the country which would destabilize the world. I don't think that's what you want.
But I agree with you that our tax system sucks. So please stop trying to drain it of all it's resources so it can finally have the manpower to not suck.
Already exists? (Score:2)
Republicans really are the dumbest shits alive.
The solution is to get rid of the income tax (Score:3)
The income tax is an early 1900s tax solution that makes no sense for a 21st century computerized economy.
We need to replace it with a consumption tax. 9 US states have no income tax and have show the way.
Tax filling in Portugal (Score:3)
Step 1: Login to the site https://www.portaldasfinancas.... [portaldasfinancas.gov.pt]
Step 2: Enter the IRS form (should be already in the first page, if not, search for it)
Step 3: Choose what year to fill the IRS
Step 4: Choose automatic submission, it is good for most people.
Step 5 if automatic isn't allowed for you, choose manual submission, choose pre-filled data. This will fill almost everything
Step 6: Add the special forms and data for what is missing from the pre-filled (investments, rents, sold houses, etc Banks send those info or own contracts have usually all the data). This is the more complex part, but if you have those extras, you usually know what to do.
Step 7: Confirm bank account and choose to who you will give a small percentage of your taxes (Social, religious, environmental, public interest associations)
Step 8 Submit. Done
All Free, all simple, specially taking a look how it was done 30 years ago
If you really don't have or understand computers, or you have any problem, you can go to a government tax office and fill the paperwork. You can also ask question online. If all fail, you can ask for help for free on some associations or pay some random shops that can help you for little money
Re:no such thing as free (Score:5, Informative)
The TurboTax app a case study in dark-pattern bullshit.
- Every few screens, they try to get you to upgrade. If you say yes, there's no way to go back, you have to start over.
- At multiple points, they ask for permission to sell your info. If you say yes, there is no way to revoke it.
- They have a long history of charging people whose returns should have qualified for free filing.
Re: no such thing as free (Score:3)
Agreed. TaxAct and TaxSlayer also have the dark pattern of asking multiple times to be granted permission to sell your information. I believe this all stems from their previous practice [arstechnica.com] of doing this without attaining user consent.
Re:no such thing as free (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, and the same is true about every government program - be it defense department, Medicare, Social Security, etc. etc. Someone has to manage them, and they are paid with tax dollars. So what?
We pay taxes because the government requires us to do so. We, at least in theory, have a progressive tax structure such that rich people supposedly pay more than middle class people, and poor people pay less than rich or middle class people. Having the government set up and maintain a system - at scale - that everyone can use to submit their required taxes makes more sense than regressively requiring that middle class and poor people bear the full cost of submitting their required share of taxes.
But it's just another reminder that Trump is mainly in office to cut the taxes and other "burdens" of the ultra-wealthy and shift as much of that as possible over to the backs of the middle class and poor people. There's a reason there are so many billionaires sitting around the table during his cabinet meetings.
Intuit charges more for Schedule C (Score:3)
TurboTax Free is technically paid for by people filing more complex taxes, which is....progressive!?
More complex != larger dollar amount.
If you do any contract work in the United States for clients that don't give you a 1099, you end up needing to report your income on Schedule C, which requires the most expensive tier of TurboTax service. A lot of people who must file Schedule C are starving artists: small-time illustrators who do art commissions for other members of social networking silos to get by. Some of them qualify under an income threshold and can prepare and file through OLT without charge, as I
Re:Intuit charges more for Schedule C (Score:4, Insightful)
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Reasonably free is enough. Water is "free" in that we only pay the minimum possible at-cost fee. If you want to get literal minded then absolutely nothing is free. Even your hate costs time and energy.
The government should be doing all our taxes and are certainly better than a for-profit with their dark patterns, annoying marketing, privacy exploiting, highly profitable business. Their profit margins are way higher than even a high level of inept government overhead. Plus don't forget, somebody is suppos
Re: (Score:3)
Nothing is free. But the "free" online filing is cheaper for the government than "free" paper filing.
More importantly, which costs the American people and taxpayers less? In effect, paying for tax preparation or software is an additional tax. It isn't free and the money comes out of the pockets of the taxpayers directly.
The IRS ought to just send people a bill with a filled out tax return. For most people, they have all the information they need.
Re: (Score:3)
So murder is an acceptable solution to your rejection of the election results?
Don't get too huffy. You are not alone. But I am not like you.