Ghost Students Are Creating an 'Agonizing' Problem For California Colleges (sfgate.com) 103
An anonymous reader quotes a report from SFGATE: When the pandemic upended the world of higher education, Robin Pugh, a professor at City College of San Francisco, began to see one puzzling problem in her online courses: Not everyone was a real student. Of the 40 students enrolled in her popular introduction to real estate course, Pugh said she'd normally drop three to five from her roster who don't start the course or make contact with her at the start of the semester. But during the current spring semester, Pugh said that number more than doubled when she had to cut 11 students. It's a strange new reality that has left her baffled. "It's really unclear to me, and beyond the scope of my knowledge, how this is really happening," she said. "Is it organized crime? Is it something else? Everybody has lots of theories."
Some of the disengaged students in Pugh's courses are what administrators and cybersecurity experts say are "ghost students," and they've been a growing problem for community colleges, particularly since the shift to online instruction during the pandemic. These "ghost students" are artificially intelligent agents or bots that pose as real students in order to steal millions of dollars of financial aid that could otherwise go to actual humans. And as colleges grapple with the problem, Pugh and her colleagues have been tasked with a new and "frustrating" task of weeding out these bots and trying to decide who's a real person.
The process, she said, takes her focus off teaching the real students. "I am very intentional about having individualized interaction with all of my students as early as possible," Pugh said. "That included making phone calls to people, sending email messages, just a lot of reaching out individually to find out 'Are you just overwhelmed at work and haven't gotten around to starting the class yet? Or are you not a real person?'" Financial aid fraud is not new, but it's been on the rise in California's community colleges, Cal Matters reported, with scammers stealing more than $10 million in 2024, more than double the amount in 2023. Wendy Brill-Wynkoop, the president of the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges and a professor at College of the Canyons in Santa Clarita, said the bots have been enrolling in courses since around early 2021.
"It's been going on for quite some time," she said. "I think the reason that you're hearing more about it is that it's getting harder and harder to combat or to deal with." A spokesperson for the California Community Colleges Chancellor's Office estimates that 0.21% of the system's financial aid was fraudulently disbursed. However, the office was unable to estimate the percentage of fraudulent attempts attributed to bots.
Some of the disengaged students in Pugh's courses are what administrators and cybersecurity experts say are "ghost students," and they've been a growing problem for community colleges, particularly since the shift to online instruction during the pandemic. These "ghost students" are artificially intelligent agents or bots that pose as real students in order to steal millions of dollars of financial aid that could otherwise go to actual humans. And as colleges grapple with the problem, Pugh and her colleagues have been tasked with a new and "frustrating" task of weeding out these bots and trying to decide who's a real person.
The process, she said, takes her focus off teaching the real students. "I am very intentional about having individualized interaction with all of my students as early as possible," Pugh said. "That included making phone calls to people, sending email messages, just a lot of reaching out individually to find out 'Are you just overwhelmed at work and haven't gotten around to starting the class yet? Or are you not a real person?'" Financial aid fraud is not new, but it's been on the rise in California's community colleges, Cal Matters reported, with scammers stealing more than $10 million in 2024, more than double the amount in 2023. Wendy Brill-Wynkoop, the president of the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges and a professor at College of the Canyons in Santa Clarita, said the bots have been enrolling in courses since around early 2021.
"It's been going on for quite some time," she said. "I think the reason that you're hearing more about it is that it's getting harder and harder to combat or to deal with." A spokesperson for the California Community Colleges Chancellor's Office estimates that 0.21% of the system's financial aid was fraudulently disbursed. However, the office was unable to estimate the percentage of fraudulent attempts attributed to bots.
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According to the summary, this is talking about people (or AIs) who start a class and then *drop* it. These people (or AIs) aren't "doing the bare minimum"--they aren't getting credit or passing.
Re:how many are just in for the piece of paper jus (Score:5, Informative)
Correct. They applying for financial aid, usually via identity theft. They get signed up and stay long enough to get the excess financial paid out, then they leave. Community colleges are rather inexpensive compared to others.
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Huh? As a professor, I've got to put "date of last attendance" down with any failing grade, so that people trying to scam the system (or just power slacking) don't get their financial aid. And if you withdraw early on (or, as in TFA, are booted) that flag is obvious. Plus, a withdraw in the first week or two cancels out a lot of the tuition bill, so shouldn't even generate financial to to pay the (now much smaller) outstanding bill.
Even if the aid is going into the student account right away, you don't h
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Are you a prof in CA?
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None. This isn't about students doing the minimum. This is about fake enrolments.
Re: how many are just in for the piece of paper ju (Score:2)
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No Funny in the discussion even after the FP offered such low-hanging fruit?
Or did you mean the diploma was for a bear?
And did you [Joe Dragon] do the bare minimum to earn a degree? To go with your minimum FP style?
Previously: (Score:3)
See also: https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Tuition free college (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're an old fart who worked their way through college you were able to do that because the government was heavily subsidizing your college. They just didn't tell you that because that's
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So would all degrees be free? What if we can't use more lawyers, chiropractors?
The way it should work in my not so humble opinion is that community college is free no matter what your degree program is, but all degree programs would also include a minimum reasonable proportion of transferable units. And if you want a free four year degree, it has to be something which will increase employability.
California already has a list of such degrees. They are called Local Programs which Increase Employability, or LPIEs. If you google "LPIE list" you can easily get the spreadsheet which lists a
Re:Tuition free college (Score:4, Insightful)
Keep in mind that before we decided to create a student loan crisis — thanks, Biden! finally something terrible that he actually did,
I can't interpret your statement here.
The student load crisis far predates Biden. Here's a graph, for example: https://knowablemagazine.org/d... [knowablemagazine.org]
Roughly a linear rise in debt starting in 2001.
Biden's role was to attempt to deal with it, which was mostly unsuccessful.
Re: Tuition free college (Score:2)
"Biden's role was to attempt to deal with it, which was mostly unsuccessful."
Biden was at the head of the group which prevented us from discharging those loans through bankruptcy. Then he didn't try very hard at all to have them discharged, certainly not as hard as he fought to prevent us from discharging them on our own.
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Hmm, I don't see how Commercial Dance or Cosmetology [cerritos.edu] are going to benefit society more so than other pursuits
Controlling what careers and degrees students are free to pursue feels like communism...shouldn't students have the right to pursue the majors and careers that are of interest to them?
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Further, are all colleges paid the same amounts, excellent colleges versus mediocre colleges?
Not to mention that people tend to value what they have to work for. What happens when they just screw around and fail (which will be a decent percentage)? And do we pay for their for their food
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People would benefit if I repaired cars for free. Why isn't the government paying me to fix cars? It's dubious.
Re: Tuition free college (Score:2)
My comment didn't speak to benefit to society except in terms of employability. As long as the jobs will get people employed then paying for the education means not having to pay benefits. The objection to which I was responding was about employability, so I was on topic. You should try it.
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What if we can't use more lawyers
What do you mean, "if"?
The market seems to handle this pretty well, although we currently overproduce in a number of areas, such as music, English, creative writing, journalism, psychology, exercise science...and underproduce in nursing, teachers, mental health counselors, certain types of engineers....If there is not a good job market for lawyers, for example, then many students will study something else.
Europe generally has free tuition, and they don't seem to have massive overproduction in profession
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Europe has free tuition, but a very limited number of slots for students. Most would-be students can't get in. (Mostly the bar is based on grades.)
In the US everyone who wants to go to college, can. Somewhere.
Honestly I think the European system is better but it's incompatible with the American idea that everyone is good enough.
Similar to how free medical care works in Europe - it's free, but the state decides how much you can get. If you're too old/too sick to be worth treating, you're not treated.
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They should have a reasonable cost as a deterrent for signing up unnecessarily. Education is a net benefit to society, in my opinion. Education shouldn't be considered solely as a means to a career. Higher education is what should enable people to be capable voters, serve in local government, and be ready to step in in case society collapses after a massive extraterrestrial EMP wipes out all technology.
Cost vs. competency (Score:2)
They should have a reasonable cost as a deterrent for signing up unnecessarily.
If cost is the deterrent, you're going to discriminated poorer people.
If competency is the deterrent (e.g.: here is Switzerland, you get kicked out of med school if you fail 2x an exam in the first 2 years, and get kicked from uni altogether if you keep failing exams after switching to different factulty) you're going to keep the most competent people.
Education is a net benefit to society, in my opinion. Education shouldn't be considered solely as a means to a career.
(Though to be honest, people still need to eat, so one should also be able to eventually find a job. But that's an entirely different can of worm which depe
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If cost is the deterrent, you're going to discriminated poorer people.
If it were say $50 per course credit, this would deter frivolous signups but can definitely be afforded by poorer people. Or if they can't, this is not the most expensive hurdle to get education anyway.
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Higher education is what should enable people to be capable voters
Certain politicians don't want that ("I love the poorly educated!") which is why they've been slowly but steadily gutting education in the country for the last 40 years.
It's the main reason for the current situation.
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Free tuition != Degree for everyone (Score:2)
So would all degrees be free?
Hi!
European here (Switzerland).
The enrollment is free.
You don't automatically get a degree for free just because you enrolled.
Getting a degree actually requires passing an exam.
Exams for highly desirable professions tend to be difficult and highly competitive.
In my case (medicine) obtaining a degree is quite a lot of hard work even if very cheap (tuition isn't completely free here in Switzerland, but ridiculously low compared to US or UK, so roughly similar to free), there are a lot of people failing and
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Considering that since 1979, inflation has risen 300%... but college costs have risen as high as 1300%... How do you think college was "just as expensive then" when the facts say otherwise?
Have college costs risen to 1300%, or college prices? Some people seem to use these words interchangeably, when they are not interchangeable.
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Have college costs risen to 1300%, or college prices? Some people seem to use these words interchangeably, when they are not interchangeable
Sure, they are not interchangable, but they've both gone up. On the cost side, employee costs (which is a huge part of providing an education) have skyrocketed, particularly in providing health insurance benefits. On the pricing side, many states cover a much smaller portion of the cost, so prices have had to increase to cover that growing gap. Many public institutions that were once state created and state supported are now essentially state located, given how little many states contribute to public colleg
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"In the old days college was just as expensive as now" Considering that since 1979, inflation has risen 300%... but college costs have risen as high as 1300%... How do you think college was "just as expensive then" when the facts say otherwise? Its amazing you're pushing socialism by pushing... lies? (Is there any other way to push socialism?)
I don't know how to compare how expensive college was long ago, but it was definitely more affordable. Four decades ago, it was possible to work a part-time job and go to college at the same time. That's no longer possible.
Re:Tuition free college (Score:4, Interesting)
"In the old days college was just as expensive as now" Considering that since 1979, inflation has risen 300%... but college costs have risen as high as 1300%... How do you think college was "just as expensive then" when the facts say otherwise? Its amazing you're pushing socialism by pushing... lies? (Is there any other way to push socialism?)
I don't know how to compare how expensive college was long ago, but it was definitely more affordable. Four decades ago, it was possible to work a part-time job and go to college at the same time. That's no longer possible.
You can get an education at a low cost if you try. Community colleges are very low cost. Some states offer free college tuition to in-state students. Then as now joining a branch of the armed forces can get you a free education. There is lots of need and merit based aid available. Online education is available. You may not be able to afford to be a resident student at the college of your choice but you can definitely get an education at a price you can afford.
So they're not really that cheap anymore (Score:2)
I mean it's better than a diploma Mill but trust me employers know the difference between a full-on public university and a community college.
Now you could try to do your undergrad work, I.e the first two years, at a community college but this is been shown to be a huge problem because the workload is much less at a community college and it doesn't prepare y
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Exactly this. When I went to Berkeley starting in 1969 administrative costs were $120 per quarter. Yes that's $120 per quarter plus books and supplies, food and housing. I worked part time in jobs that are mostly not available today and graduated with exactly no debt. I weep for todays students.
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Look I get that it's not your fault (Score:2)
Prior to the year 2000 the government paid for 80% of college tuition. By about 2006 it was down to 30%.
The raw cost of college did not change appreciably. Yes there was inflation and yes there was more inflation than there should have been but that's also because we keep grabbing all the money and giving it to the 1% which causes inflation because of course it does. If you're going to give 90% of your monetar
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I mean yeah (Score:2)
Without all those College grads nobody's going to make enough money or be productive enough to hire all
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In the old days College was just as expensive as it was now
Is simply not true.
In 1981, a person could work over the summer and make enough money to pay for the next year's worth of college. The disparity between what a teen can make today and the cost of college is even greater than the increase in the cost of college itself.
Maybe require payment before enrolling? (Score:5, Insightful)
This problem has been around a long time. To get people in the door, colleges don't require payment until a couple of weeks after the class has started. Their hope is that the students will want to keep coming, and pay. Require payment before starting class, and the AI problem will quickly go away.
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At the very least, automated ID video verifications are something I hate but would help reduce costs. My mortgage company's web site is half broken and they don't support real 2FA. They realized my cell phone number is Voip and now they can't seem to fix it. Multiple times, I have had to do a little song and dance by uploading a photo of my ID along with a video selfie. This is a stupid substitute for just supporting FIDO keys or even just Passkeys, but a fine option for one-time verification of identit
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I thought expecting people to have ID was racist?
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That's because you're oversimplifying things to an absurd degree. Especially since you're referring to a specific thing regarding Voter ID and how and why it is proposed.
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So, racism should be determined through the lens of circumstance? I see. I don't think that's how it works.
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You don't understand how targeting AI bots isn't racism?
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I certainly do. I simply don't see how requiring ID for college registration fundamentally is any different than requiring it for voting. The same barriers, if they really exist, would prevent the same people from getting higher education.
I'm not trying to argue whether ID is good or bad. Rather, I'm pointing out that it can't be good in one situation and evil in another simply because it's inconvenient. I suggest the argument makes itself.
Re: Maybe require payment before enrolling? (Score:2)
"racism should be determined through the lens of circumstance?"
When is circumstance not relevant to whether some action is racist?
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No, it's creating policies involving ID in order to discourage minorities from voting is racist.
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That's great, unless the course is online-only.
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Though for all we know, someone with a stack of fake IDs is going in-person to register for classes and aid already. In which case the only way to prevent fraud is for financial aid to not hand over any money until a student has shown up at class. Or maybe better, once they go to the register at the campus bookstore with a stack of textbooks.
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The real solution is to require in person registration of some sort. Verify you're a human.
Exactly. The problem is online courses, where you can't tell a human being from a bot.
If courses were in person this would not be a problem.
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That's a great way to limit your student base to those who can easily come to your school on a random day to register.
These colleges benefit from out of city and out of state and even out of country students wanting in (higher tuition fees). Students who may have to fly in only do so once they're actually in the program, and many students have to register for multiple schools and multiple programs if they want in.
I know I applied to 6 colleg
That's not why colleges wait for payment (Score:1)
Requiring payment before classes wouldn't solve it either because the entire point of the scam is we dispersed the money to the students and they are supposed to take it to the university. We do this because we wanted to stop subsidizing college.
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80% was from the government and 20% was tuition paid by students. It's now 70/30 in the opposite direction. 70% student 30% government.
And this somehow seems to cost more for everyone. It is the main cause of rising tuition also. Instead of being taxpayer funded, you might be on the hook for 20 years paying back loans.
Re: That's not why colleges wait for payment (Score:2)
When the prices were determined by what you could get the government to pay, they kept them lower. When the government started giving students loans, they started pushing up the prices, because students still needed degrees to get jobs but you didn't have to expect the government to pay.
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financial aid has to go out earlier
Why is this a problem? And how would it make it harder to detect fake students, exactly?
Automated money (Score:2)
is hardly "baffling." It could be a single person running it all.
Actual presence check can sort it out (Score:3)
Have students arrive at the start of the course and periodically further on. Those, who are not attending never were there for that, and shouldn't get into the actual registers.
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Then, you can assign several Zoom meetings or so, and put check against the name once you had conversation with an actual student, collected his details and given personalized answers, explanations and instructions.
Still, for a start, I am assuming California colleges do deal with the California students, that is, locally located.
Otherwise - ghost studies, ghost students, unless you condition to have actual contact to qualify at all.
Re: "Actual humans" (Score:2)
"Actual students" can put at most one butt in a classroom chair. The 'bots might be enrolling hundreds, for the benefit of one human.
And if you are not showing up for class (like some frat bros don't) I'd argue that you are not actual and are taking up a seat that a real student could use.
Reimbursement? (Score:2)
Fine, *I* will ask the naive question (Score:3)
Why are you giving them any money at all, before you even know who they are?
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Another interesting percentage, "In the 2024 calendar year, the chancellor’s office estimates that 31.4% of its college applications were fraudulent"
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Answering Your Question First:
Because there is trust in a system until an exploit is found. The more serious and pervasive the discovered exploits, the more bureaucracy expands so as to mitigate the risk of further exploits. This in turn makes normal operations (i.e. enrolling in school) slower, more arduous, less agile, and more expensive.
The Background Info:
American financial aid for higher education is a complex web of fund sources and qualifications. Here's how it breaks down--
1. Scholarships - A "gift
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Your last sentence is key. In addition, teachers need to take roll and submit accurate attendance records.
Community colleges are low cost options for higher ed. Lower cost means lower overhead, like payroll. You get what you pay for.
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My wife's identity was used for this. Basically someone took out Pell grants using her identity (which is a government program you can apply to if you have enough identifying info), then they take the money and skip out on the class. She only found out because the school noted that the "student" didn't show up and the government tried to claw back the money.
Thing is, my wife isn't at all eligible for these grants, but they just rely on the info sent being accurate, they don't verify with the IRS or anythi
see? (Score:2)
This is why you don't turn off the containment unit.
If the solution was a snake it would bite you. (Score:1)
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agonizing news (Score:2)
"I am very intentional about having individualized interaction with all of my students as early as possible,"
great. during that individualized interaction that you want to have anyway, your first assessment will be if they are a real person who really wants to study, and if they're not then you drop them. which is the "agonizing problem" here?
The mistake I see here is... (Score:2)
...so many posts considering the value of college as the issue.
TFA states -plainly- that this is mostly (?) financial aid fraud. Not about deciding not to attend, but the tools used to commit the fraud are very, very good now.
The solutions are not so difficult, many industries have faced this before.
How do the ghost shudents make money? (Score:2)
Financial aid would generally be less than the cost of the course, which someone still has to pay. How does getting a bot to take a class for you just to apply for and get financial aid netting you money?
I'm not following the scheme here. If anything, the school / teacher stands to gain by doing something like this - assuming they forge the identities of the bots and leave the bill with those suckers.
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They eventually get dropped from the class. I don't think they intend to publish a howto.
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Not handing over a lump sum at the offset, but crediting the registration and book fees first, then handing over the rest in person may help. As would identity verification plus requiring "Real ID", as they have to be using stolen or fa
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Fraudster requests financial aid from the government using a stolen identity, signs up for a class, sends the government proof they enrolled. Fraudster takes the money and disappears without paying school or sometimes the enrollment is a small amount compared to the grant.
Dead Internet Theory Again (Score:2)
It's dead, Jim.
California (Score:4, Interesting)
Interesting that it is 'California' colleges, might that be because at the core here what we have is an identity management problem, and CA seems to be categorically opposed to any form of strong identity capability?
How much of this fraud is directly related to someone in the state, not wanting to "disenfranchise" some illegal aliens by requiring proper documentation?
Note that does not have to imply or require its the illegals doing the fraud, just the weak identity controls to accommodate them enabling it.
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The fraudsters are using AI to complete coursework and engage in some communication to help pad out the ID, but in the end there must be a fake/stolen SSN in play, and that can be dealt with.
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It appears the IDs are stolen from legitimate residents, so that is not it.
More proof 'online' anything doesn't work. (Score:2)
Why is ... (Score:2)
Certainly, no financial aid should be handed out to people that don't show up in person at some point.
This could open up a whole new business area for notaries. Live in a remote location and need to establish your validity? Show up in
Another right wing failure (Score:2)
Tip of the iceberg for ghost people (Score:2)
It definitely is past the point where a harried official "human checking" could be fooled.
Even here on forums like slashdot, reddit, etc, I suspect the majority of the comments will soon be bots arguing with each other; shilling, influencing, etc.
Using the tools available to me in 2025,
Next campus fad (Score:2)
Very soon now, student bots are going to start protesting for increased spending on campus IT. Watch for harassing human students by displaying "Meatsacks!" And "Primate resource eaters!" on campus screens...
it is not just California (Score:2)
I have worked in higher-ed for a long time and this problem is all over. Two year schools have it the worst since they keep the bar pretty low for getting enrolled.
AI students learn better .... (Score:1)