Data Shows Boys and Young Men Are Falling Behind (nytimes.com) 198
Boys and young men in the United States are experiencing declining outcomes in education, mental health, and transition to adulthood compared to their female counterparts, according to comprehensive data analyzed by researchers. High school graduation rates for boys stand at 83% versus 89% for girls, while college enrollment of recent male high school graduates has barely increased to 57% from 54% in 1960, compared to women's surge to 66% from 38% in the same period.
Mental health indicators show 28% of boys ages 3-17 have mental, emotional, behavioral or developmental problems versus 23% of girls. Male suicide rates for ages 15-24 have nearly doubled to 21 per 100,000 in 2023 from 11 in 1968. Labor force participation among men ages 25-54 has declined to 89% from 94% in 1975, while women's participation rose to 78% from 55%. Additionally, 19% of men ages 25-34 now live with parents, compared to 13% of women. "The contemporary American economy is not rewarding a lot of the characteristics associated with men and masculinity," said Robb Willer, professor of sociology at Stanford.
Mental health indicators show 28% of boys ages 3-17 have mental, emotional, behavioral or developmental problems versus 23% of girls. Male suicide rates for ages 15-24 have nearly doubled to 21 per 100,000 in 2023 from 11 in 1968. Labor force participation among men ages 25-54 has declined to 89% from 94% in 1975, while women's participation rose to 78% from 55%. Additionally, 19% of men ages 25-34 now live with parents, compared to 13% of women. "The contemporary American economy is not rewarding a lot of the characteristics associated with men and masculinity," said Robb Willer, professor of sociology at Stanford.
This is well researched (Score:3, Informative)
A quick explanation, we've over feminized education, social services and society, while placing blame on men and boy for issues that we aren't reasonable for. How can you send a boy to an education system that blames him for everything, well asserting if he doesn't feel shame, and disgust at being male, while subscribing to dangerous misandrist ideals such as feminism, what do you expect? When was the last time your board, or school celebrated International Men's Day, vs International Women's Day?
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Wait, you have a young son living with you, and you haven't "sent him to an education system" because it's "feminized"? THAT'S why he's home without a job. Because you didn't SEND HIM? And he doesn't have a job because you didn't send him to a feminized uhh.. jobs.. or something? Is that how that works, your adult son is living with you because you didn't send him anywhere?
But a Men's day, that would change your mind and you might ... release your son out to the world. I just want to get that straight, lol
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This isn't a grey area, or some hidden misogyny, this is a fa
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There is some confusion about what it means to be privileged. Some people say that the most powerful positions in US society are held by men, and therefore men are in power (President, Congress, state government, CEOs, etc.). On the other hand, this does NOT imply that ALL men are powerful. There are also different and contradictory ways to measure privilege, and there can also be responsibilities that come with privilege.
It's complicated, even without getting into issues of intersectionality, intersexual
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Re: This is well researched (Score:2)
Nobody has been demoted to anything. It's just identity politics, and it's all bullshit.
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We've demoted men to second / third class citizens
Exactly. When are men going to have the chance to be in positions of power? When are they going to get the opportunity to make hiring decisions? Or make as much money as women? Just once I'd like to see a man elected to the highest office in the US.
Sarcasm aside this mindset really does put you in a reality distortion chamber. I'm a straight, white, cisgendered male and it's very obvious in all the ways society gives me the benefit of the doubt and doesn't throw up obstacle after obstacle in my way. I'm
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Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto were both written by people who claimed to be experts. Claiming that some book written by some nutjob is spouting bullshit doesn't make it true. Which in your heart you know, which is why you're talking about a book without citing any of the facts or arguments the book provides.
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It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled. — Mark Twain. Actually, it's almost impossible to convince them they've been fooled! This applies to both sides who think their side is the best.
Re: This is well researched (Score:4, Insightful)
Men are both at the top and bottom of our society so the people claiming they're privileged and the people complaining they're beat down are both true. All men are not treated equally.
Re: This is well researched (Score:2)
As my parents would say, International Men's Day is every other day of the year. We celebrate the privileged in-group literally every day.
I get that you were raised with a silver spoon in your mouth, you were never abused, you weren't born with any major medical problems, you were never bullied in school, and you never faced any adversity of any kind, or had any opportunities unfairly denied, hence you have "privileged" written prominently on your face with a permanent marker. Because for you, your sex and/or skin color succinctly defines your life story in one word: "privileged" You're totally replaceable, just like any other commodity, with
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Actually there are more than a few corporate hr departments that love things like International Women's Day.
https://lattice.com/articles/w... [lattice.com]
Cultural problems (Score:2, Interesting)
Boys who work hard in school are called nerds and pussies.
Girls who work hard get torn down less.
The best boys tend to do better than the best girls.
The girls, once they hit their careers, often quit or cut back to have kids. This especially happens with doctors.
I'd like to see info on hours worked in professional, highly educated careers by sex.
There were reasons that women were blocked from many fields, and it wasn't all sexism.
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Because putting males and females together in a small space for a long time is a bad idea.
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Also:
Since 2015, the U.S. Navy has encouraged women to join and support the Submarine Force. With the first enlisted female earning her Dolphins in August, 2016 the fleet has continued to benefit from a growing number of female volunteers.
source [navy.mil]
Re: Cultural problems (Score:3)
I can confirm what GP said. I was bullied in school for trying to learn, only and specifically by other males.
We need better role models (Score:2)
Controversial, I know, but we need role models who can lead by example and show young men how to be men, how to stand up to adversity, and preserve in life. Someone who'd show them how to accept and learn from failures and focus on success instead of dramatising insignificant adverse events.
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Re: We need better role models (Score:3)
Against them being shit. We don't need to make it okay for men to be shit again.
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Prejudice against males in schools BBC report (Score:2)
https://www.bbc.com/news/educa... [bbc.com]
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Controversial, I know, but we need role models who can lead by example and show young men how to be men, how to stand up to adversity, and preserve in life. Someone who'd show them how to accept and learn from failures and focus on success instead of dramatising insignificant adverse events.
Look, this isn't difficult.
Put that in the perspective of a man or woman that has a young adult son living with them. You have a son. He is not entertaining college. You're wiping the sweat off your brow because that's expensive. He is not talking to any recruiters. You're not sure he'd qualify for anything after years of sitting around the house, but the thought of him deploying scares you. He is also not in the least bit interested in looking for a job.
Who do you blame. "Feminists"? Male role models? A wo
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Show men how be men. Show women how to be women. Don't try to measure both sexes with the same measure and don't create a unisex programme to fit both. Tailored education and approach. Unisex approach has failed.
Just in case you were wondering... (Score:2)
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MAGA outrage. Always the victim, blame the immigrant and the deep state conspiracy.
Prejudice against males by teachers BBC report (Score:2)
https://www.bbc.com/news/educa... [bbc.com]
So yes, there IS a problem.
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I have great respect for immigrants who come in, knowing no English, overcoming obstacles and financial hurdles and xenophobia along the way. We need more people like these, not less.
I'm pretty sure you aren't an expert on when ADD meds are necessary and when they are not.
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The not sitting still is more from diet than anything else. Switch to a carnivore diet for a few months and you'll be amazed at how that calms your mind down while making it sharper. You can handle sitting patiently again without needing to fidget and can pay attention to media that doesn't cut scenes every couple of seconds.
Stable? (Score:2)
A hypothetical partial explanation (Score:2)
I know nothing about this topic, but I know a little about numbers and statistics. Hypothetically, what's described is exactly what would be expected **IF** there was a time when society was biased in favor of boys and men in certain contexts, and then that bias was reduced so that males and females were more equal.
Totally fictional example: suppose there's a university that only admits male students, so 100% of their students are male. Then their policy changes to allow women students. Shortly thereafter,
What I learned working in K12 education (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked for a major textbook publisher for years, the whole experience was summed up by one newsletter. How K12 treats boys was basically an open secret.
I got two emails, this was maybe in ~2016, back to back. One was a general education newsletter. In it there was this article, about a study done in the UK. They asked boys to gauge how much they thought their teachers, specifically high school biology teachers I think it was, were biased against them. They audited the grading of those teachers in a gender-blind way and found the boys surveyed were shockingly good at estimating this. The researchers were suggesting that basically boys don't try very hard in school by the time they reach high school, because they are actually quite smart about where they choose to spend their effort.
The next email was about yet another "Girls in STEM" promotional event we were running.
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Re:What I learned working in K12 education (Score:4, Interesting)
Indeed. Hollywood has been characterizing males as idiots for decades now. When was the last time you saw a family pictured, where the dad was smart and responsible? No, they're always shown as dufuses. Boys aren't dumb, but they've been told they are for a long time, so they often try to play the part. It's harder to buck expectations than to just go with them.
BBC report admits anti male prejudice at schools (Score:2)
https://www.bbc.com/news/educa... [bbc.com]
Note the added - oh what about girls in STEM to dilute the outrage at the appalling behaviour of the teachers.
As someone that plays a lot of video games (Score:2)
Psychiatry = destruction of one's life (Score:2)
Then I visited a doctor because of small stress. I was given meds that I tried but when I discontinued them I was put into a ward and they diagnosed me to have "schizophrenia" although I worked full time (also from a ward using my phone) without problems in my work performance.
I continued to work 5 fulltime years but then lost my job because I was treated against my will in psychiatry and couldn't go to my work. Now I'm a jobless psychiatric patient and it's
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Most people who suffer from psychiatric problems, don't believe they have a problem. The people around them are better able to assess the truth, than they themselves. This is especially true with those who have schizophrenia.
It's actually *really* hard to have someone committed involuntarily into a mental hospital. I know, because I helped a close friend do so with her son, who was suffering severe psychosis. Eventually, she succeeded, but he was out within a week because he knew how to answer all the docto
American society isn't even ready to address this (Score:2)
We're still caught up in this big political/cultural war, where the more "liberal leaning" half of our population is still sold on the idea that we need to keep making more "opportunities" for women in the workplace, and secondarily? There was blatant sexism against women up till now, preventing them from obtaining workplace equality.
I'm afraid I have to disagree. The core issue at hand is really a level deeper. In my lifetime, I've witnessed a big shift in focus away from valuing the "stay at home mom" and
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Another interpretation (Score:3)
Because more women are entering the workforce and able to compete on equal footing, they're securing positions that substandard men were previously able to occupy. At the same time, opportunities for work are not growing at a rate that keeps up with supply of labor. This increased competition is simply an artifact of a competitive, elitist system with no safe-guards.
We see this happening outside of the gender game as well in other elite fields where foreign entrants are able to secure places that domestic candidates are failing to achieve (although this is largely due to wage pressure rather than actual qualification in most cases, yet another billionaire created problem).
We should stop talking about this problem as a gender issue, that's typical divide and conquer billionaire-speak, and start talking about it as an economic problem, and a social problem. And we should definitely be trying to figure out a permanent solution to billionaires.
It's Hard For My Fellow Liberals to Accept (Score:5, Interesting)
Society is at its best when everyone is contributing to the best of their abilities. It should be extremely worrying to everyone when so many people are simultaneously choosing to disengage from society. Nobody lives in a bubble and we're all going to feel the effects of mass disengagement eventually. It's better to get out in front of it and attempt to understand why it's happening so that we can fix it before we dig ourselves any deeper.
I believe that we're all drastically underestimating the amount of social change that has happened in the past fifteen years and it will be a long time before we recognize the full extent of the damage. While everyone is affected by these changes, much of it has come to the detriment of men. Society is sending men extremely mixed messages and it's taking its toll, especially on young men. Masculinity has been vilified by many media outlets, leading young men to believe that it's primarily a negative trait. However, those young men later enter the dating world and find that most women seem to prefer masculine men. In addition to that, dating now is almost nothing like what it was ten to fifteen years ago, and as a result many young men have disengaged from that as well. In fact, it's likely not a coincidence that if a man disengages from dating, he has less need for a successful career since he doesn't have to worry about financially supporting a family.
Even young women are complaining about how society's depictions of men have misled their own understanding of the nature of men, which has caused many issues in their relationships. Many modern women have come to believe that men are interested in a woman's financial success and that men like to be challenged by a strong woman. However, after some time in the real world, they have to learn the harsh reality that most men don't care how much money a woman makes (unless she's in ton of debt) and that men prefer serenity rather than constantly being challenged.
I'm confident that we'll figure it out eventually, if only because we won't make it if we continue in the direction we're headed. It's just a matter of how long it will take for people to open their minds and understand something that seems overwhelmingly counterintuitive. Since nobody wants to listen to men complain about men's problems, I recommend listening to the TED talk of Cassie Jaye, a former feminist that made a documentary with the intent of portraying champions of men's causes as members of hate groups and, spoiler alert, she ended up drawing a drastically different conclusion.
All of you wanted this to happen (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this not the end goal of every pseudo-improvement of the last 1-2 decades of a culture war that was exclusively led by the self-titled progressive woke? They wanted to dismantle the âpatriarchyâ(TM) by systematically giving unfair advantages to everyone else, so congratulations, it worked, you destroyed the helpless and the defenseless boys! Your BS was not ever tackling real issues and will never affect the actual wealthy and really powerful, but you WANTED to tear men down - and you did it!! And now we got proof.
You systematically took away every role model and never gave them any new ones to look up to, so in confusion and desperation they ran to psychos like Tate who filled that void. You left them helpless and hopeless AND told them they all somehow âdeserve itâ(TM) for being by-birth toxic males.
Who knew, if you treat people differently and blindly follow a toxic, destructive narrative that âtemporary injustice is okâ(TM) as long as serves the one true âgood end goalâ(TM), then there will be consequences and it will not make things better for society as a whole.
In case you were wondering, your elections are a reflection of every insanity and injustice you people have been oh so cheering for: People rather elected the lunatic than another one of your savior-complex progressives.
And if history is an indication, when so many young boys are without perspective and hope, bad bad BAD things usually follow.
You wanted this. Now you are getting the consequences.
So? (Score:3)
Is this new, though? Or has it always been the case? Especially among adolescents, testosterone can do quite a number on their thinking, especially with as yet under-developed frontal cortexes.
Ah, so men still participate at a higher rate than women, 89% to 78%. How is this falling behind?
Sure, but how many of the 87% of women who don't live with parents are still economically dependent on someone else they're living with? I bet a higher proportion than men.
This is indeed a disturbing statistic. I think it has to do with unrealistic expectations and conflicting messages given by society to young men (just as women are given unrealistic expectations about body image, for example.)
"Characteristics associated with men and masculinity" are stereotypes. Men and women can both be gentle, kind, nurturing, and other "feminine" things, and men and women can both be rough, assertive, cruel and aggressive and other "masculine" things. Men should forget about these stereotypes and not try to live up to them, but just be themselves.
Men are over represented (Score:2)
As bricklayers. We need to force women into those roles until the brick laying profession is a microcosm of society. Same for miners, loggers, arctic fishermen, etc.
When you decide to punish men for the actions attitudes historic whatever, they will take note and this is the outcome. Not rocket science.
Don't they just love it when a plan come together (Score:2)
Simple explanation (Score:2)
Re: Simple explanation (Score:2)
Re: Simple explanation (Score:2)
natural ratio is the.problem (Score:4, Interesting)
For every 100 women there are 105 men born.
This built in natural competition is what leads to our wars in general. There's always going to be some boys left out.
Varies by country (Score:2)
105 is about right on average, but selective abortions have led to many countries seeing a far higher proportion of males. Long term this is SCARY... https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org]
The pathologization of boys and men is a fad. (Score:2)
The narrative being that men are not attending college because they're failing is non-sense IMHO.
Young men in the US are avoiding college because it has turned from being a surefire way to score a degree, a job for live, enough income to build and support a family and - most importantly - score a mate for life to do exactly that, into the worst deal in the history of ever.
As every hetero-male who hasn't been sleeping under a rock the last 3 decades knows, the deal of scoring a monogamous relationship via a
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Re: Bring back the draft... (Score:2, Interesting)
Fuck that warmongering shit.
Every war is another chance for it to be the big one. We cannot afford that as a species. You're a traitor to humanity.
Job Draft (Score:2)
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Not a terrible idea, though there are plenty of academically proficient students who currently qualify for aid and scholarships that have no business being in the trades or the military.
Re: Bring back the draft... (Score:2)
I agree. But first, open it up to able-bodied women of age to serve too.
Re: Bring back the draft... (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, the main things holding men back are the policies that stupid men have been voting for. A bunch of idiot men have been bamboozled into supporting a system of private healthcare and private education because they refused to stop clinging to the blue-collar dream.
When faced with the reality that the blue collar jobs were declining both in quantity and pay, these fucking morons doubled down on the idiotic dream and sought to solve the problem with tariffs. Which, of course, just further demonstrates their ignorance.
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To be fair, the main things holding men back are the policies that stupid men have been voting for. A bunch of idiot men have been bamboozled into supporting a system of private healthcare and private education because they refused to stop clinging to the blue-collar dream.
When faced with the reality that the blue collar jobs were declining both in quantity and pay, these fucking morons doubled down on the idiotic dream and sought to solve the problem with tariffs. Which, of course, just further demonstrates their ignorance.
I'm just sad :-( that I'm too old to work mining for "Beautiful Clean Coal" and /s
my hands are too big for "screwing in little screws to make iPhones" like this Administration envisions for the not-rich people in America.
- Reinvigorating America’s Beautiful Clean Coal Industry and Amending Executive Order 14241 [whitehouse.gov]
- Howard Lutnick Says Army Of Millions Will Build iPhones In The US, But Could Trump's Tariffs Make The Premium Apple Flagship Cost $2,300? [yahoo.com]
70% of middle class jobs since 1980 (Score:2)
Basically we are running out of work. And that's not something you can openly discuss because as soon as you do outcome the thought terminating cliches about ludites and buggy whips and whatever else.
I just don't think human beings are equipped to think about and deal with the changes that are coming and it have been hamme
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To be fair, the main things holding men back are the policies that stupid men have been voting for. A bunch of idiot men have been bamboozled into supporting a system of private healthcare and private education because they refused to stop clinging to the blue-collar dream.
Because everyone can have a cushy office job and we don't need anyone to grow food, build roads, weld pipes, etc. You're essentially a living parody of "learn to code".
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To be fair, the main things holding men back are the policies that stupid men have been voting for. A bunch of idiot men have been bamboozled into supporting a system of private healthcare and private education because they refused to stop clinging to the blue-collar dream.
Because everyone can have a cushy office job and we don't need anyone to grow food, build roads, weld pipes, etc. You're essentially a living parody of "learn to code".
Um... then what, exactly, is keeping hordes of young men from being farmers, building and repairing infrastructure, and welding stuff, because those are all in demand. They're not dream jobs? ... ? Are charter schools helping? Are education cuts helping to fund vocational schools? The private healthcare plan on the farm or road crew is amazingly helpful to start a family? Do tax cuts help farmers more than Musk and Trump? Do tax cuts pay for more road projects? Trump uses his huge tax cut to pay for more pl
Re: Bring back the draft... (Score:2)
Farming is an especially silly example. Just look at how many Americans were farmers compared to a hundred years ago. While he is at it, he should look at how many of those farms were family farms compared to the big corporate farms today. Then look at how farming is basically just propped up with subsidies and tariffs because otherwise the demand for field corn could probably be fulfilled by a single Midwestern state. At least there are soy beans. . .oh wait, China buys them from Brazil now because of Trum
Re: Bring back the draft... (Score:2)
Many people who would have previously taken blue collar jobs now find themselves as gig employees. These are usually jobs with no healthcare and no prospects for advancement. For these people, it makes sense to vote for universal healthcare, free higher education, and worker protections. Instead, large numbers of them voted for the opposite of that. They voted against their own best interests and the interests of society at large because they thought it was the more manly thing to do. In other words, they a
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depriving them of education that can reach them and mental health or legal support that they may need to thrive.
Oh, the soft bigotry of low expectations. There has never before in history been more mental health resources available to both young men and women. What legal support are young men missing exactly? This is as a class, the riskiest group of drivers on the roads, and not one adult man alive is unsure of the reasons. Our little risk/reward centers aren't fully grown yet.
It's all just funny ... when we talk about minority groups, one thing that seems to pop right to the top really fucking quick is blaming the
Re:It's okay, the feminazis will save us (Score:4, Insightful)
The feminazis always claim to be for "equality".
So do incels.
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And to think you're proud of this comment.
"Their takeover of education and industry has been so successful that men are doing much worse than women."
Are they? And education is bad anyway, Trump loves the uneducated, like you. In fact, Trump wouldn't say falling behind but leading the charge.
"Or were they just hateful misandrists all along ?"
No, that's just your projection. Not everyone is as hateful as the MAGA loyalists. You should be loving this outcome, it's what you voted for.
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Re:It's okay, the feminazis will save us (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, Cartman. Anyone with kids sees young women leaving the house and making friends while young men stay home and play video games while their ass slowly grows into the crevices of their gaming chair.
Zero parents with a young adult son living with them blame society, just you weird incel fucktards. If education is too feminine, starter jobs are too feminine (lol, seriously?), then why aren't soccer fields, baseball fields, any team sport, etc, mountain bike, dirt bike trails, you know, "man stuff", every possible fucking thing parents try to push their sons out of the house to do, why aren't they flooded with 18-25 yr old young men with nothing else to do? Because if they were any good at getting out of the house and making connections, .... they'd already be out the fucking house wouldn't they. All the young men I see out enjoying themselves HAS A FUCKING JOB, because they're not going home for lunch and they're sure as shit not charging it to mom's credit card while blaming abstract femininity for not having an income.
My man, if your little Johnny said he's not going to college because there are too many girls there, you fucked up hard. And that's why he's not getting a job? LOL, start packing your shit Johnny. All parents in that position, god bless them, they know it too, they fucked up. You have no experience on the matter, obviously.
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Actually, women are suffering from social isolation as well:
https://www.afr.com/policy/hea... [afr.com]
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Schools are designed for female students to close the "achievement gap". Female students get preferential admission. In stem, women get preferential hiring. Boys are shown they're second class citizens from the time they get into puberty. Women are taught to fear men, and men are taught they're hateful whether they're hateful or not. All this would be fine if society told them there's something good and unique about men, something to aspire to and be valued for. But "everything men can do women can do better". And now we're surprised at the fallout? Society won't be willing for the necessary reforms, especially giving men back their purpose, until things get a lot more shit than they are now.
Do you even have a modicum of proof of anything you say? Other than the same old right wing, boring old tripe that all men are the victims?
I'm sorry, you orange snowflake. No one cares.
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Schools are designed for female students to close the "achievement gap". Female students get preferential admission. In stem, women get preferential hiring. Boys are shown they're second class citizens from the time they get into puberty. Women are taught to fear men, and men are taught they're hateful whether they're hateful or not.
Go ahead and point out in the article where it says anything close to the bullshit he spews.
Re:Since when do we care? (Score:4, Interesting)
https://dailycollegian.com/201... [dailycollegian.com]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Femin... [reddit.com]
https://athensoracle.com/2296/... [athensoracle.com]
https://archive.nytimes.com/le... [nytimes.com]
https://www.bbc.com/news/educa... [bbc.com] (Teachers 'give higher marks to girls')
https://www.forbes.com/sites/n... [forbes.com]
https://aibm.org/research/boys... [aibm.org]
Scary attempt at spin in the BBC report (Score:2)
Rather than focus on the appalling prejudice against males being demonstrated by the teaching profession (profession?), it adds references to females failing to thrive in STEM subjects because of lack of self confidence.
Sadly this article seems to have led to no actual changes; for it to do so the education blob would need to start to admit its prejudices... Of course they expect everyone else to. Funny that.
Re:Since when do we care? (Score:4, Funny)
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Biden Derangement Syndrome! Is Joe in the room with you right now?
Joe's in his own room, shitting himself, and wondering if that was , umm, you know, the thing.
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Yeah, who needs evidence based arguments when we can just shout stupid opinions at each other like on Twitter?
You're being ridiculous. Why on earth should anyone care about what you have to say if you cant even support it?
Re: Since when do we care? (Score:2)
Re:Since when do we care? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some "boys" don't succeed when they can't get a free ride on male privilege - that's the gist of your argument. And here I thought the conservative mentality was to pull on those ol' bootstraps and work harder.
It's still difficult to succeed as a woman. I just saw a thread on the HVAC subreddit today about a woman who was fired because she'd complained to HR about harassment. Women have to put up with a lot of shit in what is still a cisgender heterosexual male-dominated society (and no, I didn't put all those descriptors in there just to be "woke", as a gay man I've experienced my own share of prejudice as well), and if you're a man who can't make it because of some recent-ish efforts to level the playing field, then that's on you.
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I don't think you can solve discrimination with even more discrimination, but "on the other side".
It's not a zero sum game with a "limited number of slots", that you get to bump one side when you push the other down.
Basically, pushing males for being males won't make the issues that women face go away, it will just means more people getting screwed by the system.
The only ones that get any benefit from it are nepotists and similars, that have more tools to get rid of everyone they don't want, to put their un
Re:Since when do we care? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's still difficult to succeed as a woman. I just saw a thread on the HVAC subreddit today about a woman who was fired because she'd complained to HR about harassment.
Basically, pushing males for being males won't make the issues that women face go away,
If "males being males" means we get to sexually harass women without consequence, we should change our idea of what "being male" is. There's no genetic compunction that forces men to make sexually explicit comments to/around coworkers. It's purely a social construct and learned behavior that can be changed.
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It's not punishing males for being males, it's punishing them for toxic behaviour.
If, instead of getting upset about it, you think about how you can improve yourself, be a better person. You know, like they do on Star Trek.
The best part is that it makes you more attractive to the ladies too. Maybe not the instant magnetism you see some guys apparently have, but once they get to know you, and get to know them...
Re: (Score:2)
Wow you just proved his point. "Male privelege" throughout most of history has been men being sent off to die in wars, men not getting the lifeboats when the ship is sinking, boys being more likely to die of malnutrition or disease during hard times, etc.
You notice the king and his advisors but pay little mind to the peasantry.
Historically, women have been twice as likely to pass on their DNA than males:
https://academic.oup.com/mbe/a... [oup.com]
Meanwhile, most actual barriers against women fully participating in so
Schools are designed for corporate drones (Score:2)
Women were targeted because the corporations and the billionaires want it to dilute the labor pool and lower wages and bargaining power. That is all..
For men the jobs they did were the first that could be automated and we saw exactly that with massive amounts of factory automation and process improvement around what was previously middle class
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"$150 billion dollars worth of programs"
Not quite. Of that, he only has receipts for about $62 Billion and many of those receipts are dodgy as well. Put quickly, he's been lying just like his boss.
Re: Since when do we care? (Score:3)
Dont you worry, if history is any indication then things usually get very bad very quickly whenever there is a critical mass of desperate, hopeless and abandoned boys and young men without any perspective, purpose or support.
Re:Since when do we care? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, bullocks. Do none of you people have decent enough memories to actually recall anything from your teenage years in the public schools? I do. And yeah... it was a miserable experience across the board. But not at all for the reasons you're trying to push in your narrative.
> Schools are designed for female students
...
...
> Boys are shown they're second class citizens
> from the time they get into puberty.
> men are taught they're hateful whether they're
> hateful or not
I never saw any of that "man-o-sphere" claptrap. Or, if I did, it was vastly, VASTLY overshadowed to the point of triviality by the regular student-on-student hate and bullying for being part of the "nerd herd," or a "band fag" (Nothing to do with being LGBT. There are far worse attacks in the schools than just "fag" for anyone remotely suspected of possibly being gay.), or an "AV dork," or "computer geek," or "AP asswipe," or "science shit." Not being fashionable enough or not liking the right music (Only mainstream pop, rap, and some country were acceptable. Being into punk, ska, or electronic also made you a freak or, in the last case, "rave trash.") was also far worse than anything gender-based. Hell... just being a skater in a coastal town where the cool kids were all surfers put me lower on the social totem pole than being male ever did.
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I never saw any of that "man-o-sphere" claptrap. Or, if I did, it was vastly, VASTLY overshadowed to the point of triviality by the regular student-on-student hate and bullying
Perfectly said! The "claptrap" came from the very people who are complaining today. Those who are screaming about teachers feminizing male students are the anti-intellectuals that defined masculinity to be violence and stupidity. They perpetrated that culture upon themselves, then when it turned out that punching the smart kid in the face wasn't a useful job skill, they blamed their failure on the schools.
Re: Since when do we care? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Schools are designed for female students to close the "achievement gap". Female students get preferential admission. In stem, women get preferential hiring. Boys are shown they're second class citizens from the time they get into puberty. Women are taught to fear men, and men are taught they're hateful whether they're hateful or not. All this would be fine if society told them there's something good and unique about men, something to aspire to and be valued for. But "everything men can do women can do better". And now we're surprised at the fallout? Society won't be willing for the necessary reforms, especially giving men back their purpose, until things get a lot more shit than they are now.
This is yet another expression of the myth of (white) male suppression, even though female suppression on a statistical and anecdotal basis are obvious. Perhaps the only accurate complaint is that the overwhelming discrimination against women is eroding in some areas.
Almost everything said with the myth is false, but some of these men get to shout louder. 2+2=5. This is the theme of the current times.
read and learn (Score:2)
International evidence of anti-male prejudice in teachers
https://www.bbc.com/news/educa... [bbc.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Listening to FOX and the MaggotVerse will definitely cause you to think that your ills are caused by Someone Else Who is Probably Female.
Re: Since when do we care? (Score:2)
Need to get beyond the dismissals (Score:2)
Public, academic, policy and political discourse needs to get beyond the knee-jerk dismissal of any structural issue men and boys face.
When women and girls were behind men in education the 1974 federal Women's Educational Equity Act was passed and in the 1980s it was expanded to cover ever more ways to help women and girls. Refer WEEA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Consider two data points which, despite decades of men being well behind women in achievement, never ever get discussed and never are consi
Academic research focues on women (Score:2)
When we've spent the last 50 years primarily researching health and social issues affecting women, and the media focusing on that research; it affects, by ignoring and dismissal structural issues affecting men and boys.
https://direct.mit.edu/qss/art... [mit.edu]
April 12 2022
Researching women and men 1996–2020: Is androcentrism still dominant?
Mike Thelwall, Abrizah Abdullah, Ruth Fairclough
Quantitative Science Studies (2022) 3 (1): 244–264.
https://doi.org/10.1162/qss_a_... [doi.org]
This article assesses the balance
Re: (Score:2)
I hear Argentina is popular.