California Has Got Really Good at Building Giant Batteries 103
California's battery power capacity rose from 500 megawatts in 2018 to nearly 16,000 megawatts in 2025. Nearly a quarter of America's battery capacity is now in California alone, according to Bloomberg.
At their daily peak around 8pm, batteries can provide as much as 30% of the state's electricity. The batteries charge in the afternoon when solar power is cheap and release energy in the evenings when Californians get home and crank up their air conditioners. In the middle of the day, when the sun is strongest, as much as three-quarters of the state's electricity can come from solar.
California relied on regulation to achieve this scale. In 2013, the California Public Utilities Commission ordered the state's three big investor-owned utilities to procure 1,325 megawatts of energy storage by 2020 to help meet renewable targets and stabilize the grid. That goal was easily met. Mark Jacobson, an engineering professor at Stanford University, told Economist that most days this year contained periods when solar, hydropower and wind, helped by batteries, met 100% of California's demand -- even though just 54% of the state's electricity generation comes from renewables.
At their daily peak around 8pm, batteries can provide as much as 30% of the state's electricity. The batteries charge in the afternoon when solar power is cheap and release energy in the evenings when Californians get home and crank up their air conditioners. In the middle of the day, when the sun is strongest, as much as three-quarters of the state's electricity can come from solar.
California relied on regulation to achieve this scale. In 2013, the California Public Utilities Commission ordered the state's three big investor-owned utilities to procure 1,325 megawatts of energy storage by 2020 to help meet renewable targets and stabilize the grid. That goal was easily met. Mark Jacobson, an engineering professor at Stanford University, told Economist that most days this year contained periods when solar, hydropower and wind, helped by batteries, met 100% of California's demand -- even though just 54% of the state's electricity generation comes from renewables.
Wrong units (Score:5, Informative)
Batteries store energy, not power. The correct unit is not megawatts, but megawatt-hours or similar.
I can't confirm whether TFA uses the correct units, as it requires a login to read the article, and I can't be bothered.
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You are correct and the error is in the article. The current estimate is that the Calif. grid has about 16TWh of associated battery (excluding batteries associated with behind-the-meter solar installations).
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Thanks for that. Then I wonder whether TFA is expressing something else, like the instantaneous power the battery-grid can deliver, but not the amount of stored energy. I think the latter is more useful than the former, but I'm just a physicist, not an EE with expertise in power-distribution systems.
Re: Wrong units (Score:2)
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Well, storage is not the same as delivery. That's why they use different units. But I can understand why both are important.
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The current estimate is that the Calif. grid has about 16TWh of associated battery (excluding batteries associated with behind-the-meter solar installations).
[citation needed]
California's peak energy usage was apparently about 3 years ago and about 52,000MW. Unless I'm doing my math wrong (which is, I admit, a distinct possibility) 16TWh of batteries represents about 13 days worth of that peak demand. I'm not saying your value is incorrect, but I would expect "California has enough battery storage to run the state for two weeks if all the power generation fails" to be headline news.
Re: Wrong units (Score:2)
Its wildly incorrect. California has about 40 GWh of batteries.
Mark Johnson, for the record, isnt a good source of information. He has made his career advocating shit other experts find laughable: 20 years ago he was claiming the wind technology of the day could power the US affordably without issues, which still isnt true today. His grad students regularly churn our what I'd consider highly misleading papers on reliability. I'd call him part of the new wave of "science advocates" who have a policy position
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The wind technology most certainly can do that.
However the amount of installed wind mills can't.
No idea about that bloke, though.
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Those batteries are most likely house hold installations.
So they run the house holds they are attached too, and not "the country"
But that number would be indeed impressive.
This is the biggest pumped storage plant on the planet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Thy have an interesting high loss in turn around, or a typo on wikipedia ....
The annual production capacity is: 6.61 TWh
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You are correct and the error is in the article. The current estimate is that the Calif. grid has about 16TWh of associated battery (excluding batteries associated with behind-the-meter solar installations).
No, grid capacity is usually reported over time, so they use MW/GW etc.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q... [letmegooglethat.com]
Re:Wrong units (Score:5, Informative)
Power is a very important unit in grid batteries, and in some rare cases is the more important unit. It doesn't matter how much energy is stored in a battery if you can't pull it out as quickly as you need it.
They should provide both numbers, but power is not an incorrect unit.
Re:Wrong units (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks for the info. I thought energy was more important, so color me informed.
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I thought energy was more important, so color me informed.
I tried to color you, but apparently I ate the "informed' crayon. :(
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To be pedantic, batteries store energy, so have an energy rating, but they also have a maximum output limit, so a max power rating is also relevant.
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Thanks, mom.
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Batteries store energy, but they *provide* power. If you don't have enough energy then people get blackouts when it runs out. If you don't have enough power then they get blackouts right now. The summary talks about both.
Power is often the important metric in procurement because the system has to have the capacity to handle the peak demand. Also, megawatt inverters are expensive.
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Sadly, the article is behind a paywall, and I don't want a free trial from Economist. But the numbers they give in the abstract correctly talk about power:
At their daily peak around 8pm, batteries can provide as much as 30% of the state's electricity.
That would be 30% of the total power output at 8pm, not of the total energy provided e.g. between 7pm and 9pm.
And indeed, we have to different criteria when talking about battery size or capacity. How much e
Quality answer (Score:2)
To expand on this: those in the industry tend to talk about load (i.e. power) more than capacity (i.e. energy) since the latter is more or less assumed by convention to be unlimited. Given how the grid works (generation must equal load and maintain frequency or Bad Things happen), this focus makes sense.
Re:Wrong units (Score:5, Informative)
It's typical, for instance, to limit charging of a Li-ion battery to 1*C. So if the battery's capacity is 100 Wh, you would want to not charge any higher than 100 W. Rearranging the equation, this would imply it should take a bit over an hour to charge (CC-CV charge profiles complicate this math, but most of the charging happens in the CC phase, so...) To maximize cycle life, you may want to specify 0.25*C, meaning you charge at only 25 W, and thereby need something like 4 hours to charge. EV manufacturers like to advertise fast charging times: 15 minutes equates to something like 4*C, but at a cost to the battery's cycle life. Maximum advertised discharge rates for Li-ion vary from 1*C to 10*C.
These are not inherent rules, of course; they're guidelines from the cell manufacturer. They vary by battery type (NiMH is different from Li-ion is different to Ag+Air, etc.), and can be biased one way or the other by tweaking the anode/cathode chemistry. And even these guidelines can be broken: you certainly can pull a lot more than 10*C power out of a Li-ion battery, but 1) you may trip the internal short-circuit protection, 2) you'll get much less than the rated energy capacity out of it, 3) you'll probably cause permanent damage to it, and 4) risk causing a fire. For stationary grid backup solutions, where cycle life is a big deal, I'd expect them to limit charge/discharge to 0.5*C or less. So when you hear a stationary battery claim "we can power X homes for around 4 hours", that's an indication that they're using 0.25*C. The conversion from the power (kW, MW, whatever) to the available energy (kWh, MWh) can be determined from that.
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Grid operators are generally focused on power, not storage capacity. They care about how much power can be delivered to the grid
That's power...
and for how long.
... and that is storage capacity
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Grid operators are generally focused on power, not storage capacity. They care about how much power can be delivered to the grid
That's power...
and for how long.
... and that is storage capacity
It helps to look at a chart, see, grid capacity is power over time. Not storage capacity.
https://www.ercot.com/gridmkti... [ercot.com]
What's more useful?
The energy capacity of a hydro dam, as in usable lake capacity times all turbine output.
Or how much power the turbines are expected to generate plotted over the next 24 hours.
Batteries are the same way, don't look at storage, look at how much they can contribute to grid capacity over time.
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What's more useful? The energy capacity of a hydro dam, as in usable lake capacity times all turbine output. Or how much power the turbines are expected to generate plotted over the next 24 hours.
Batteries are the same way, don't look at storage, look at how much they can contribute to grid capacity over time.
Both are useful for different grid needs? Why the false dichotomy?
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Grid operators are generally focused on power, not storage capacity. They care about how much power can be delivered to the grid
That's power...
and for how long.
... and that is storage capacity
It helps to look at a chart, see, grid capacity is power over time.
Power divided by time?? Watts per second, which would be joules per second per second???
No.
Original poster was correct; what matters is how much power the storage can provide, and for how long. Watts, and watt-hours (or, at utility scale, megawatts and megawatt-hours),
Re:Wrong units (Score:5, Informative)
The use of the terms megawatts and kilowatts as descriptive of battery energy storage is to effectively convey the instantaneous power contribution of battery storage as comparable to the power produced by grid-level generators. We recognize that energy capacity in the context of energy storage typically refers to the total energy a battery can hold in watt-hours, kilowatt-hours, megawatt-hours, etc. However, for statewide planning and reliability purposes, understanding the peak power capability of battery energy storage systems allows for the integration of data with the nameplate capacity of traditional power generation units serving the grid. It is in this context that battery systems are able to be effectively compared for their ability to serve the grid over short periods of time, typically two to four hours per day depending upon system conditions.
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Downvote parent (Score:2)
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Confidently wrong because I admittedly didn't read anything or ask myself simple questions
Wow, you be you dude, yolo, but they did use the right units because you're confusing battery capacity and grid capacity. Since these are ... grid scale batteries ... they mean grid capacity, and that's how it was reported.
For example:
"Battery capacity" in GW - https://www.eia.gov/todayinene... [eia.gov]
Grid capacity in MW - https://www.ercot.com/gridmkti... [ercot.com]
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Batteries store energy, not power. The correct unit is not megawatts, but megawatt-hours or similar.
Yes and no. While you're right in the context of this story they are talking about energy and using the wrong unit, it is very important to talk about batteries on the grid in terms of power too. The largest amount of energy is useless if it can't be dispatched at a rate fast enough to keep the grid stable.
We absolutely need to talk about power when we talk grid batteries, but it is a different number (and not one being discussed in TFS).
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"i bet your fun at partys"
It's "I" and "you're" and "parties". :-)
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"i bet your fun at partys"
It's "I" and "you're" and "parties". :-)
Sssh. Just leave him alone and let him eat his crayons.
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Just for that I'm going to stop at the ATM machine
And Slashdot... (Score:2)
Re: And Slashdot... (Score:1)
Re:And Slashdot got bad at headlines (Score:1)
nah, always sukt
Skip the battery (Score:2)
Residence should turn their AC on in the afternoon, powered by solar, and skip the trip through the battery and all the inefficiency that brings.
Not always feasible Re:Skip the battery (Score:1)
If you don't have your own solar and you can't "choose your provider" or your provider-of-choice doesn't have solar available at the very moment you need it, you'll need to use "something else" for power. That "something else" could very well be a battery that was charged by solar.
Also, many parts of California need air conditioning when the sun isn't shining.
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The article implies the AC is off during the day, when there's sun, and then people turn it on when they get home, after the sun has started setting. The article also implies these batteries are part of the public service. If they have surplus during the day to charge batteries, they should instead use at least part of that surplus to run AC systems to bring the temp down ahead of when people need it, and avoid the inefficiency of converting to chemical then back to electrical.
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> they should instead use at least part of that surplus to run AC systems to bring the temp down ahead of when people need it
That buys you maybe an hour and a half, two hours of reasonable comfort. Assuming you absolutely crank the AC and get that room down to borderline uncomfortable cold, once you turn it off the heat gain through the building plus internal heat sources and you'll be back to uncomfortably warm before dinner time.
Thermal storage is a thing but the house itself is not a thermal storage s
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It will take a couple hours to bring the temp down. Do that during the afternoon while the solar is working at its peak, then by the time the solar loses efficacy, the temp is down and can be kept down using a battery. There's no reason to wait until early evening to start, when the whole process would have to be off a battery.
I pre-cool my apartment to 65 until 10AM or so, when energy is cheap, then let it slowly rise until the evening. It's comfortable almost the entire day and saves me from peak pricing
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You say all this as if it's not already something that's common practice. Every thermostat installed in like the past 30 years is electronic timer based, if not 7-day programmable with 4+ setpoints per 24 hours. This isn't a peak power problem; it does not solve the problem of needing to keep the equipment running into the evening.
> I pre-cool my apartment to 65 until 10AM
I'm going to guess your apartment is both fairly small and surrounded on five sides by other apartments, because that doesn't work in
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No timer at all or just that you can access?
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>No timer at all or just that you can access?
It's a cheap consumer-grade thermostat with no consumer-accessible timer.
If it has one in the chipset, there's no user interface. Maybe if I removed it and took a deep dive, I could find the headers needed to access the internals, and just maybe there would be a built-in timer, but this is slashdot.org, not hackaday.com.
On the plus side, if I wanted to replace it with one with a timer, I can. All I have to do is buy one and get the landlord to sign off on th
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I'm going off the article summary:
> The batteries charge in the afternoon when solar power is cheap and release energy in the evenings when Californians get home and crank up their air conditioners.
I pickup from this text that people are waiting to turn on their AC until they get home, after the batteries stopped charging. That seems backwards.
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> I'm going off the article summary
It's pretty naive to assume that this is specifically and solely about air conditioners if that's all you're going on. My pickup from this is "air conditioners" is a stand-in for any electrical loads that occur during peak times when people get home. Cooking dinner, doing laundry, home entertainment, etc. etc.
Per the actual article (emphasis mine); "At their daily peak, around 8pm, batteries can provide as much as 30% of the state's electricity."
Solar production basical
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Ice storage AC units and non-export systems (Score:2)
Where are the AC units which have ice storage? You hear about them now and then. They make ice during off-peak hours (wee hours of the morning) then they use the ice to cool the house in the late afternoon when power is very expensive.
Air conditioning is going to be an absolute requirement for many houses as the earth warms up.
Here in San Diego California, we're looking at 60 cents per kWh. The investor-owned utilities have destroyed any viable solar solution which exports power to the grid by only paying y
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That may be so (Score:1)
Same confusion at TX power reports (Score:2)
Capacity to store != Capacity to deliver (Score:3, Informative)
As you said, confusion reigns. Do you mean capacity as in energy storage capacity (MWh), or capacity-to-deliver (MW)?
Calif's conversion is really impressive (Score:5, Insightful)
In under two years, Calif. - the whole state - has quietly converted to a mostly-renewable energy system. Yesterday: grid-scale renewables (mostly grid-connected solar) peaked at 24TW. Including behind-the-meter solar end points, there's as much as 49TW peak power generation. The day--peak surplus goes to batteries (5GW at peak) and exports (to Oregon, Washington and BC - also peaking at 5GW).
https://www.caiso.com/todays-outlook/supply#section-supply-trend
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"While that's good and all... what about a cloudy day or three? "
Nobody will switch on their AC.
Next question?
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Just because it's cloudy doesn't mean it's not hot.
(And if you have one of those newer-fangled thermostats that you set a temp and it'll automatically cycle between whatever it has to so it can maintain that temp... it'll self-manage itself based on the temp "in" the house and not based on the temporary temp dip outside the house.
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"While that's good and all... what about a cloudy day or three? "
Cloudy? California? Ha, ha! Not in summer. Not when demand for electricity is at its greatest. And, even if there are some clouds, they only cover a small portion of the state.
Re:Calif's conversion is really impressive (Score:4, Interesting)
Also... why sell your states power to neighboring states (that'd be the same as selling the gas in your car's tank to a neighbor)...
It's nothing like selling the gas in your car's tank to a neighbour- unless your gas tank refills itself whenever your car sitting in the sun, in which case if it is full at noon, why wouldn't you sell it to your neighbour if it's just going to refill again by the end of the day?
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How about because not sharing it will encourage the neighbor's to build their own, and will enable you to have some headroom in case something happens (the connection between the panels and the batteries fails, one of the batteries fails, there's clouds, there's more draw than expected that night... maybe an earthquake hits and destroys the solar farm. Any number of things could happen that cause the panels to not charge the batteries fully... the point is, if they can hold 50GWh, and expect that evening/n
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I'll see people sing the praises of a solar+storage option to ride out a power outage. I don't see that as an advantage over a whole house UPS.
When the power goes out where I live, that being the Midwest USA, the power tends to go out in the evenings when there's the strongest differential in temperatures from east to west. That time of day is when the wind tends to be the strongest and therfore a higher probability of trees coming down on overhead power lines, utility poles being blown over, or the stron
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For me, and I suspect much of the USA, a battery pack that keeps the lights on the home for an hour would be exceedingly valuable as utility outages rarely last longer than that. If your utility allows you to send more energy to the grid than you consume then that is great but that is not how utilities work in the USA. The utilities have a kind of veto authority on solar that feeds energy to the grid, they do not want households sending more energy to the grid than is consumed as that throws off their abi
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You're right, we need more renewables; there's no reason to stimulate any coal or nuclear until more renewables are built out, of all kinds: wind, solar, storage, hydro, and creative implementations. We've barely started building out renewables, and misinformation is still being flung around about their limitations. We need a central government initiative, and we're instead getting central government grift-funded boondoggles.
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Also... why sell your states power to neighboring states
Because that's how the grid works. It's part of the reason it (the US West electrical grid) called a single "grid" and not "a bunch of disconnected small grids."*
Also, before commercial-scale energy storage became a thing, it was the only thing you could do besides cut production.
* I'm oversimplifying here, but you get the idea: The US West grid, taken as a whole, gives you the flexibility to produce power in one place and deliver it hundreds of miles and several states away, up to the capacity of the tra
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Would that work in Tornado Alley?
Don't you mean "the wind corridor"?
For much of my childhood the wind was to be feared as strong winds meant flying debris, dust storms, if not full on tornadoes. I recall spending hours raking hay into neat rows for baling only to see a dust devil blow through to make me spend more time out in the hot sun on a noisy tractor to rake it again. When people found out they could make money selling windmills then "tornado alley" became "the wind corridor" because it would be difficult to sell windmills in place
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1. This is why solar power generation at great scale is important: when it's cloudy and cold in the North, it's still often sunny (even if still cold!) in the South. Calif already exports power surplus to northern States (and BC in Canada) - and has been importing hydro and nuclear power at night and at winter.
2. It's also why wind power generation is important. The winds from the West are persistent.
And beyond the USA, that combination of solar (grid and endpoint), wind (mostly onshore*) and batteries will
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It's good news, especially considering the position of the federal government, but also... China had 62GW of grid scale battery storage by the end of 2024, of which half was installed that year. This year it's probably going to be another 50GW or more.
Obviously California is a bit behind on the curve, so as long as it keeps ramping up fast it's good news. There is still a massive amount of opportunity for more storage and even more renewables, they are nowhere near saturated, it's still early days.
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It'll still burn just the same. Gotta maintain those lines bro.
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But that's OK. the answers I always get are:
1) Put solar on it- can't, it's a condo, condo HOA won't do it,
2) buy a house then, and put solar on that - I don't have 1 mil laying around to spend, which is the cost of houses in my area, minimum.
3) Invest in power saving appliances
Fake News! (Score:1)
Nuclear is the only true power! This must be lies! All Lies!
Power Industry Propaganda (Score:2)
The batteries charge in the afternoon when solar power is cheap and release energy in the evenings when Californians get home and crank up their air conditioners. In the middle of the day, when the sun is strongest, as much as three-quarters of the state's electricity can come from solar.
That means the batteries are being charged with the sources that produce the other quarter since all the solar is being used.
"As much as" is the same as "at best" which for this purpose means at times when conditions for solar are that their peak, "the sun is strongest", but also the times when usage is relatively low. Perhaps on Sunday morning when the sun is shining but the air conditioners haven't been cranked up yet?
most days this year contained periods when solar, hydropower and wind, helped by batteries, met 100% of California's demand
I am not sure what that means. For batteries to "help" they have to have been charged w
Too Bad (Score:1)
Too bad they won't use it to power electric chairs.
Oh but they do Re:Too Bad (Score:1)
Electric massage recliners are very nice after a hard day's work.
Incentives, not regulation (Score:4, Interesting)
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Interestingly, Texas has not provided state-based incentives, yet is #2 to California, with 11,000 MW/hrs of battery capacity. It seems that the business proposition alone is enough to stimulate the construction of these battery farms.
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Battery incentives or lack of them don't exist in a vacuum:
How much of Texas's wind and solar was incentivized by the government?
How much of the battery-storage would not exist but for the government-incentivized wind and solar creating a market for utility-scale energy storage?
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Texas provide HUGE incentives through ERCOT's pricing structure -- they just make sure the buyers pay not the state. The batteries benefit from the fact that when they provide power during Texas' routine "power emergencies" they get to charge 30X the going rate for electricity. This is the same rate structure that allows Texas' crypto miners to turn off one hour a day and come out ahead on their electric bill for the day because they get a 30X credit for the hour they are off. Gouging the power consumers is a feature of the ERCOT grid for the power providers -- even the green providers.
Is "gouging" the right word? Residential consumers in TX pay half what those in CA do. And the massive price spikes generally only apply to wholesale buyers. I don't think most residential users even have the option of a variable-rate plan.
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Is "gouging" the right word? Residential consumers in TX pay half what those in CA do. And the massive price spikes generally only apply to wholesale buyers. I don't think most residential users even have the option of a variable-rate plan.
I don't know if "pay half" is valid, since you have to consider average amounts.
I signed a 10.9 cent per kWh contract here in Texas over a year ago, and the delivery rate (independent grid operator) was increased so it's now a 12.9 cent per kWh contract. All I can eat 24x7, no tiers, etc... Variable rate plans exist in theory, or at least they used to before the 2021 ice storm. I haven't looked for them much since, but there were "free nights and weekends", where you were punished with higher rates durin
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According to data I found online, the average paid by CA residents is 30 cents per kWh, so if you're paying 12.9 cents, then the right phrase is "less than half". Though of course, the need for heating/cooling between the temperate Bay Area and the more extreme conditions in Texas is different, and usage obviously affects the bill, but we're talking about rates.
Here in Utah I would also normally pay about 13 cents per kWh. I'm actually on a TOU plan which is 5 cents off-peak and 25 cents on-peak, with pe
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According to data I found online, the average paid by CA residents is 30 cents per kWh, so if you're paying 12.9 cents, then the right phrase is "less than half". Though of course, the need for heating/cooling between the temperate Bay Area and the more extreme conditions in Texas is different, and usage obviously affects the bill, but we're talking about rates.
That's the average, but... The end result is actually way worse than that. I have to buy a bunch of kWh just to make my house livable in this environment. It's an inelastic cost. It's not that I want to spend that much $$, I'd rather not. If it gets too expensive, I leave. But it also impacts the little things. The little cost cutting (elastic) steps like turning off my homelab have almost no impact. My homelab costs me maybe $10 a month. I'm much better off making sure my air conditioner is in perfec
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- Texans blindsided by massive electric bills https://www.texastribune.org/2... [texastribune.org]
- After Days Of Mass Outages, Some Texas Residents Now Face Huge Electricity Bills https://www.npr.org/sections/l... [npr.org]
- $9000 per megawatt-hour https://environmentamerica.org... [environmentamerica.org]
- At Texas high court, energy companies fight colossal bills from winter storm Uri https://www.courth [courthousenews.com]
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That may be more to do with the fragility and isolation of Ercott. And batteries are probably the most cold-tolerant source of power in Texas. They pair well with solar that way. Can make it and store it even when the temps are well below freezing.
Texas looks to me like the IDEAL state for solar. So much of their land is essentially unusable above-ground. This may be another big contributing factor to the solar there, all that cheap land for installations. And all those oil wells don't mind sharing s
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Regardless, it's not due to state government incentives, which don't exist in Texas.
Grammar (Score:5, Insightful)
California Has Got Really Good at Building Giant Batteries
"Has Got" ?
Become
Gotten
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Queen's English is "has got." "Has gotten" is U.S. English. Presumably author is from the UK.
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I could care less* about how the English language is being destroyed
*No really I could care less. That means I do care.
61 cents per kWh (Score:2)
I live in California. On our rate plan (the only one available for those who have solar) the peak rate in the summer, in effect from 4pm to 9pm, is 61 cents per kWh. The lowest rate is 35 cents per kWh for winter off-peak.
Reply and let me know what the peak rate is where you live so we can compare.
My house has solar and are looking into batteries so we can avoid using utility power from 4-9pm. Until recently we had net metering which was great. But I guess that agreement expired and now net metering is
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If you use a zero export battery system are you still blocked from other plans?
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Western North Carolina, residential flat rate:
$14/month basic customer charge
12.119c per kWh
11.119c per kWh for the additional kWh over 800, October to April
https://www.duke-energy.com/-/... [duke-energy.com]
I guess our power costs a lot more the California's because we don't have so much wind and solar. I assume power is essentially free there, like the wind and the sun.
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$0.13nnnnnnn (generation) =
$0.63nnnnnnn (total)
Generation is Sonoma Hippie Power.
Distribution is Pacific Gas and Electric, a utility which has burned down whole towns, blown up neighborhood, and gone bankrupt (twice).
No solar, so that's the price all day, everyday, all night, everynight.
Trying to stay warm I kept in mind that 1500W space heater is basically $1/hour.
Engineering Plans Available? (Score:2)
These sound impressive.
Can the designs be downloaded anywhere?
I don't even need a whole Megawatt.
Bring it! (Score:2)