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Hacker Generation Gap 55

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-think-about dept.
zootsuite writes "Here is an Interesting Article on how the incredible growth of the hacker community has created a rift between young and old-school. References to l0pht and cDc. Quite a few of the old-school folks are going commercial now. "
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Hacker Generation Gap More

Hacker Generation Gap

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  • bah (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    AntiOnline is a bunch of horse-shit. I mean, the guy interviews Analyzer and buddies.. and takes him seriously. Earth calling Reality, come in Major Tom..

    I thought the whole BO thing was a little comical, although cDc's ``foreign minister'' seems to be saying some quite intelligent points, so kudos to him.

    What I think really sucks is 14-year old script kiddie twerps who do nothing but sit in shitty wannabe-cracker chans, download scripts from rootshell and use them, thinking they are the next Kevin Mitnick.. kinda sad, really?

  • Security model of linux as a whole (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This brings up something I've wondered about. I'm not sure if I'm worrying over nothing, or if this is a big class of threats that's not being addressed.

    Malicious developers could hurt linux by contributing bad code. Anyone with money who had an intrest in hurting linux could pay people to do it. It wouldn't be expensive.

    Code that just doesn't work or which is needlessly inefficient would probably be noticed and fixed. But deliberately introduced security holes are another story. They don't give any external signs of their existence.

    To me, it seems like the history of computer security proves that any possible attack, no matter how obscure, will be mounted. You can't ever say, "well, that would be possible, but no one would actually do it." They would, and they do.

    A couple of weeks ago, somoene posted a link to a famous paper (can't remember who wrote it, sorry) about infecting compilers with code that puts backdoors into the programs that they build. It's extremely subtle, almost impossible to detect, and even if you compile a new version of the compiler and start to use it, you're vulnerable.

    More recently, there was a story about someone who cracked an important linux ftp archive and installed his own copies of system software.

    I think we ought to start thinking about these issues more seriously, and to try to develop a model that can resist them.

    It seems to me that ee need more rigid security standards, ftp servers with audited security (at least the major ones), and code review policies for core packages.

  • What?! Did someone say blue box?

    :-D bwaha, sorry. Couldn't resist. Oh, the good old days.

  • The meaning of words change; it's just the way language works. Most of the hacker/cracker zealots out there just end up sounding pathetic.

    ----

  • Actually, there are some interesting things about Ebonics that aren't in proper English. I don't know much about it but I am still interested in learning more. The 'habitually' modifier, 'be', for instance. It's not just 'is', at all. There is an implication of frequency. For instance-
    "He hacking" -means he is hacking.
    "He be hacking" -he always hacks, he is a hacker.
    Thus, constructs like "He makin' sense but he don't _be_ makin' sense" which means "He is making sense but this is unusual enough to point out that usually he doesn't make sense".

    -Chris be nitpicking ;)
  • Whyyyy, back in MY day, if we wanted to hack something we had to do it the hard way, with a pick ax or hatchet! And we didnt HAVE these fancy computers you kids these days to...we use mainframes that would fill a small airplane hanger, and we LOVED it, damnit! We bootstraped everything by hand, and again we loved it! Oh, excuse me, I have to take my medication now.

    ---------------------------------
    HotsOS home http://hotsos.8m.com/
  • That's like saying, "Thank God for all the murderers, rapists and tax evaders! Otherwise, our policeman would be out of jobs!!"

    Your "white hat" hackers are far more of a boon to the security industry than the "black hat" crackers.
  • They're talking about crackers, not hackers...Goddammit!
  • Isn't it nice to be idealistic?

    *sigh*

    I only wish I could still have your optimism, and still make a living in the real world.

    - Sean


    - SeanNi
  • before i even got to the bottom of the post.
  • The guy didn't even mention LoD in spew on old-school hackers. Instead he mentioned l0pht as the oldest and most respected hacking group :) (ya right) Also, who the hell are the Masters of "Downloading"???

  • it was Brian Kernighan, for crying out loud!!!
    and the backdoor was in the AT&T C compiler for Unix!
  • oh, you're right. how embarassing.

  • Linus is a hacker
    L0pht is a lamer, i mean, a cracker


    I have to admit I find it pretty ironic that an Anonymous Coward is calling the L0pht a lamer. For starters, the L0pht is an organization, not a single person (which could be a simple grammar thing, but just to clarify).
    In addition, I would hardly classify as crackers an organization who, among other things, find security holes in supposedly "safe" software, then proceed to expose said holes through public Security Advisories. As far as I'm concerned, their work is a great service to the public (ie, I'd rather have them find holes in major software than others). Take a look at their page for more info.

  • The comments to the article are in red.
    Attrition.org's dissection of mistakes in ABC News article on hackers... [attrition.org]

  • Without people like L0pht, we would have no privacy, no security and no idea that we lacked both. (My US$ .02)

    On a security note, check out my new Windows file system DoS attack [dynip.com]. FAT filesystems are naughty.


    Ex Machina "From the Machine"
    xm@GeekMafia.dynip.com [http://GeekMafia.dynip.com/]
  • Ken Thompson's paper is here [acm.org]

    SteveM
  • AntiOnline was mentioned in the article, is anyone else having trouble getting to that page today?

    I got to it once, and it just said "hello2"
  • It's kind of painful having grown up in Lubbock with daemon roach underground (a bbs of CDC fame), and recalling posts that were immature, boastful, and at times raunchy, but part of a community, and then I realize that there isn't really much of a place to do the same now. The places that spawned bored adolescents such as death veggie do not exist now. All that's left is either the more reserved and on-topic places like /., and junior-high-child-frequented 2600ish places. There's no place left to rant, be amused, amuse someone, and learn to play with computers.

    Kevin, if you're feeling at all upset about the scriptkiddies, chastise your underlings...in public, if possible. BO's not much more than an annoying prank.
  • Just like # has multiple definitions, so does hacker. Find something better more constructive to whine over.
  • One of the reasons that many of us have jobs and one of the major concerns of the of the idustry we are in is security. I actully think that crackers, how ever ethicly misaligned, are a boon to us. The fact that they exist gives us several things. First they give us a real and preasent threat, both to explain the necessity of secutity and also to keep us wary. Second, because of the nature of the cracker sub-culture the cracks or the methods used for the cracks are accessable to us and thus we learn our weaknesses. Because crackers are vocal we learn about each potental problem quickly, if instead the real counter posibility of idustrail espionige, who would be less likely to be vocal.
  • Once again, the press has a differing definition of the term "hacker" than I do.
  • last i checked, l0pht had received
    quite a few "thank you"'s on bug
    lists and the like (including red hat
    site errata)...

    what have YOU contributed lately that
    makes you worthy of calling l0pht a lamer???

  • If we think most of the cracks on companies come from kids who are using the right tools to the wrong ends, then why is it 72% of the corporations immediately think their competitors are responsible. I know I'm paranoid, but 72% is extreme paranoia IMHO.

    And another thing, why the hell are hackers getting all the negative publicity when the companies think their competition is responsible? I know half of the reason is due to the media's lack of knowledge on the definitions of "hacker" and "cracker", but there's gotta be more to it.


    Cordova

    shrug -- Can't lurk all the time --
  • You can anounce to potential employers that you are a hacker but you have to be careful about it. When I was hired it was a well known fact that I am hacker (not elite) and I made it well known that I am a white hat (you gotta stress that). Unfortunately the security culture where I work is down on hackers and wants any employee who knows a hacker to report their activities to security. This keeps me on my toes but angers me in that I could be fired for just doing my job!
  • A) I type faster than you ever will
    B) I can spell
    C) What I type is legible ( that means that you can read it)
    D) Most people write their own code. KIDDIE
  • A) I type faster than you ever will
    B) I can spell
    C) What I type is legible ( that means that you can read it)
    D) Most people write their own code. KIDDIE !!
  • Here it is:

    The internet counterculture used to predominate and have something relevant to say. As it became profitable to be a geek, money changed everything. Life isn't so bad when you make $60k/yr.

    But as far as I'm concerned, hacking is a methodology, not limited to computers. If you can't "hack society" or see what the fuck is wrong with it, and you just sit there in your corporate cubicle sneaking peeks at Wired, then you don't know what the hell its all been about.

    I grew up in the 80's telecom scene, which was highly subversive, and I stick to that today, with even more experience and knowledge.

    The internet used to be about changing the world, and for a lot of people it still is. Just because a bunch of hackers have turned into Dilbert just confirms what everyone knows: throw money at a counterculture and you completely dilute its effect.

    In other words, changing the OS at a corporation is not revolutionary. If it isn't subversive, it is irrelevant.

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