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Web Salvation: Running To The Internet Tour 201

Using the Net and the Web, and thanks to Slashdot and its readers, I skirted around the mass-marketing conventional wisdoms of modern publishing with my new book. So the story continues with "Web Salvation: The Running To The Internet" tour. Since it started here, it's only right that it continue here. If you care to, follow along from the inside of a new-media driven, intensely-interactive kind of rolling book tour. You can follow the sked, even e-mail the publicist. Part One:

Washington - I never love the Web more than when I visit its antithesis: this arrogant, top-down, incestuous city. Something in the drinking water here makes people angry, crazy, self-righteous, combative.

Kicking off the "Web Salvation: Running To The Internet Tour" on C-SPAN this week early Monday morning, the callers were all abuzz about yet another hateful D.C. tell-all book, this one by George Stephanopolous about how The President who employed him for year after year is unfit for office.

The first caller on "Washington Journal," from Omaha, asks me about a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Years of Web writing have prepared me for this. "It's not really my turf," I say, as the host, Brian Lamb, nods impassively. Interactive TV, which Lam has practiced by taking calls from all over the country on his public service network from the day he started, is much like being on the Web: you get flamed but you shrug and move on. We're on the air for more than an hour.

The second caller, Sean, from New York City, signals me that he's a Slashdot regular by saying he's read my work on the Web and that my writing is "slashing." This is confirmed by Sean's subsequent e-mail. "It was cool seeing you on TV," he wrote. "I've flamed you on Slashdot, but seeing you there, well, it was cool....So I called."

It was cool, like being a member of a secret society. And effective - the Random House publicist calls to say we've shot back up onto the Amazon Top 50.

Three weeks ago, I made minor publishing and Web history by launching my new book "Running to The Mountain" on Slashdot, which excerpted a chapter about spirituality and technology. I've been contributing columns to Slashdot for the past six months, drawn by the site and the free software movement, something I've been waiting for much of my life. But I never imagined my book would debut there.

I'm what publishers call a "mid-list" author. They don't really like writers like me. Nor do they quite know what to do with us, because we rarely sell enough copies to justify their time, especially as they consolidate and get bigger and sell to giant chains. I've published seven previous books, and none has earned much for either the publisher or me. I was getting broker, and they were getting stingier. Something had to give, and the odds were it was going to be me.

At a booksellers' convention in Boston last fall, a Random House sales rep took me aside and let me know, sotto voce, that the sales force "didn't get my book." It was a friendly warning, and a chilling one. And I understood it. My book was weird - part spiritual exploration, part adventure, part memoir, part essay. I didn't have a five-word explanation that somebody could read at a sales conference. And even then, months ago, the business was buzzing about Monica.

The translation: Random House wasn't going to print many copies of my book. Maybe they'd print 5000 or so. The chain stories would each order one or two copies, stick them back in Men's Studies or Memoirs (publishers pay for the displays up front), and that would be the end of it. And that is precisely what happened.

You hear a lot about the sales force in publishing these days. Writers call them SFFH - Sales Forces from Hell. Modern-day avengers, its members hunt down mid-list writers, read through their wretched sales histories, and root them out. We are, like welfare recipients, considered a shiftless and dependent bunch no longer worthy of subsidy. Increasingly, we're also like refugees, fleeing from one publishing house to the next, panicked about our contracts and our prospects. This may be just, and nobody's forcing us to pick this line of work, but the idea is that if we don't figure out how to sell more books, we're done.

So I knew I was running out of time. But for me, the Web is almost a religion, an inevitable place to turn. I fell in love with it the moment I went online eight years ago. I've made my closest friends online, done some of my best writing there, exchanted e-mails with a zillion people, and watched in wonder as the modern equivalent of the discovery of fire erupted under my nose. I decided the Web could save me by allowing me to reach my audience directly. It offered a chance to test the validity of all the BS I've been writing about it for years.

So I gave first serial rights to my book to Slashdot - for free. My publisher chuckled. A site about a computer operating system called Linux inhabited by computer geeks? With a Penguin for a symbol? Cute. Futile. So up it went on Slashdot, home mostly to young programmers, coders, Webheads, Web designers, and OSS and Linux users -- a book about a middle-aged man heading off to a mountaintop with his dogs and a pile of Thomas Merton books, to ponder life after 50.

And guess what? Hundreds of Linux geeks bought it. The book rocketed up Amazon's bestseller list in hours, making it all the way to number 22. My publisher went into shock. A site called what? How many books? The Sales Force was in disarray.

Interestingly, among the book-buyers were many who had been roasting me alive in public forums for being a Linux klutz, a wuss and a Microsoft Word user. (Don't worry, I'll never out you). Some actually read it, some gave it to their parents, and - one or two scanned it, compressed it into e-mail files and gave it away for free. The book went into a second printing and then, this week, a third.

So my faith in the Web is repaid. More importantly, there may be a new way for writers to survive the Sales Forces. Before the publication date, I'd spent weeks e-mailing websites that might conceivably be interested - dog sites (my two yellow Labradors are featured prominently in the book), Thomas Merton sites (the Trappist Monk who inspired my journey) and any other site that might reviewthe book or link to a review or to Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble.

Luck helped: I got a great review on USA Today on the very day the excerpt appeared, as well as praise from the LA Times, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Men's Journal, Elle and New Age Journal. (For a negative review, go to Salon.com, where a critic accused me of being an upper middle-class, non-spiritual wuss).

Now I'm heading off on a two-week inter-active book tour. The Barnes and Noble website will link to the tour, and Slashdot will link to Amazon and Barnesandnoble.com. And thanks to the World Wide Web, I'm just where I want to be: on the barricades, a guerrilla writer loose in the wilds of the Net. There's going to be an auction for the paperback rights. The book is selling, so the Sales Force can't make me go away. And the Web has endless possibilities, so maybe I never have to.

Using the Web (Slashdot made it possible), I sold the book around them. My publisher has no clear idea of what's happened, other than to declare it profound. Other writers are calling daily to ask how to do this. Get on the Web, I tell them, and the force will be with you.

But probably not the Sales Force. Bewildered and unsettled, it's making all the right noises, but I can't help getting the sense that it is impatient to get on with the big celebrity books, the kind they do get and print tens of thousands of copies of. If not for the Web, and especially if not for Slashdot, I would have already been long gone.

Instead, I'll be filing book-tour I'm going to filing book- tour reports over the next couple of weeks as I visit Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, New York and other cities to flog "Running to The Mountain." Slashdot readers sure don't need to buy the book - you've already done your much-appreciated part. But if you want a peek at the insides of a modern book tour, then come along. The book's publicist, a champion both of the Web and of "Running to The Mountain" and, now a good friend as well, has graciously agreed to include his e-mail in case anybody has any questions about publishing, how media and books work, or anything else (sure, you can pitch book ideas to him, too, heh-heh). His name is Brian McClendon, and his e-mail is bmclendon@randomhouse.com.

Below is my tour schedule, including print as well as electronic media publicity. This scheduled is only accurate to date, and subject to plenty of change, and probably additional places. If you're in town, please come by, and ID yourself by making a "slash" gesture across your throat. Otherwise, you can catch me on TV and radio, critique my questions and answers, and follow along. jonkatz@slashdot.org

The Running To The Internet Tour:

Author: Jon Katz Title: RUNNING TO THE MOUNTAIN: A JOURNEY OF FAITH AND CHANGE

Pub Date:03/01/99 Price:$20.00 ISBN:0-679-45678-3

03/15/99 Run American Way Magazine National/NATIONAL - Review

03/16/99 Live 10:00AM WBUR-FM/"The Connection" Boston/NEW ENGLAND - Radio

Syndication

>03/22/99 Capitola Book Cafe Capitola/SAN FRANCISCO/NORTHERN

CALIFORNIA - Talk & Signing

03/22/99 Tape 05:00PM ZDTV/"News" National/NATIONAL - TV

03/22/99 04:00PM ZDTV/"Silicon Spin" National/NATIONAL - TV

03/23/99 12:00PM Stacey's

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Web Salvation: Running To The Internet Tour

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  • Ah, but the content of the writing has everything to do with good, professional work. Good, solid writing is good, solid writing whether it's written on a Linux box, a Mac, an IBM Selectric, or scratched in the mud with a fraggin' stick. Similarly, long-winded, self-centered drivel is long-winded, self-centered drivel no matter what it's written with...
  • CmdrTaco is a free agent, and he's entitled to do all he likes for you. I myself have given you some harsh feedback which I've no idea if you listened to it or not- and I was free to do so or withhold such criticism. I can give you input, I can give you validation by writing fan letters, I can argue with other slashdotters over you and increase the size of your threads.
    What have you done for _us_ lately?
    This is one-sided. If you're going to be a leech, go away and leave us alone. If you want to be worth our respect, use that Boomer brain and figure out some way to promote US! We don't care about your success- that's _your_ problem. We don't care about your personal goals- you used to talk about overcoming Linux, and we cared about the Linux, not about your process of overcoming. _Everybody_ struggles with new things and has to make an effort. _Everybody_ cares about something or other (even if it's the act of not caring). It's boring.
    Show us what you can damned well _do_. I realise this is harder than self-aggrandizement but it's all that matters.
    What, what have you done for us lately? What have you even tried to do? There's no sin in failing to contribute to society. There's no sin in fleeing to a mountain with your dogs and opting out of the many struggles of the present day. People have been doing it since way before the '60s, it was boring then, it was noisy and boring in the '60s and it is boring now. The insult is not in the cowardice of hiding behind the walls of the self and the ego, but in behaving like it's _our_ job to help you further yourself.
    You, Jon, need to reconsider what you do with your storyposting access to Slashdot. Granted, many stories are silly or just fun, and there's no crime in that- but it is wrong to use such a gift for self-aggrandizement unless you can also throw in something that helps _us_ in the bargain. So you're doing a book tour- great! I told you myself that you should, that it was a hell of an angle to work: I'm a writer, not as successful (enough to know you're not making piles of cash even now, that argument is silly), and you _should_ hit the talk shows. But once you're there, Jon, what will you do? What will you say? In all your talk of self-discovery, where is the slightest detail that will help the world or us or the damned dogs you took with you or anyone but Jon Katz? You need to find an answer for that.
    And I'll tell you why: in self-aggrandizing terms (we are whimsical animals and self-aggrandizing is natural and good). You need to find an answer because having one will make you more famous. Vain writers full of themselves are boring. If you come off boring and pompous you'll never see the talk shows again. On the other hand- if you can work an angle outside the self, make _it_ famous if you understand me, why then, you come along for the ride! Look at ESR, him and his Jedi costume. Imagine how you'd sell if you were _that_ colorful. Now look again- ESR has an _angle_, it's not just a cult of personality. He has a theme, a cause. What is your cause, Jon? The answer to that will make the difference between fame and obscurity- and it all comes down to the simple question: yes, we've done much for you, but what can you do for us? That's the story, that's the angle, that's what could set you apart from a thousand geriatric hippie writers trawling the dregs of the B list. Ponder this well, grasshopper- last time I spoke to you I said to go on talk shows and that's working- so will this work if you are big enough to do it. Hopefully you can pick up a bit of wry affection from this vicious genX 13er hacker writer speaking to you across what sometimes seems an insurmountable gap. _Work_ this one- I won't say 'look deep into yourself' because what will you find there? Nothing more special than any human who cares. Look outside yourself- look to what you do, and ask yourself, what beyond my feelings, my heart and soul, can I give?
    Because, Jon, I can tell you from the breakdown lane of the information superhighway and from a spot pulling people out of the gutters of life, that giving the heart and soul just isn't enough. The day ends, and you've done nothing to help anyone- find ways to _try_ and build somebody, something, up, rather than building your heart and soul up to a state of useless radiance and enlightenment. You don't have to succeed, but you do have to try.
    I've spent a lot of time writing and writing to try and reach you and cast a light on you. That's my privilege- I could not care, which is also my privilege, I could cut you dead instead of trying to understand or counsel. Instead, I choose to try and reach you, in stark contrast to your usual flamer.
    What have you done for _us_ today?
  • Bitched at Katz, and signed my name to it ;) and you?
  • The question is, is he going to try and widen the crack so other people can get through, using the temporary soapbox he gets through this publicity, or is he gonna decide it's because _he_ is some kind of wonderful philosopher, and not do a damn thing to express publically the capacity of the net to bring one person's views or art to the attention of many?
    But... upon reflection, that isn't even the issue, is it? Much of this would seem different if Katz submitted articles to editors who then could post them or not, and I think some of his excesses would be minimized. He's basically abusing his editor privileges, if you want to put it that way- there's nothing so intrinsically wrong about his articles besides the occasional MS Word garbled quotes, but hell, not even Sengan would post articles just to sell something... much less use the capacity to put Slashdot articles online, to hype his own product. Editors are for guarding objectivity, and Jon Katz has stumbled badly in this regard. He should have let others post the news of his series of appearances- and, for that matter, the news of his book.
    It is possible that those articles would not have seemed on-topic enough to another editor. But Jon, by virtue of trying to get a Linux box, gained write access, and now that he has it, there is no more about his linux box, and he presents infomercials on his book, and speculations about sexbots.
    I admit that would sell books and keep his section of Slashdot read, but it would be better if someone else had the decision to post his stuff or not.
    Hell, I write, and do essays on Linux and open source, and in fact I have written GPLed software, and you don't see _me_ demanding that I must be allowed to have write access to Slashdot. I'm just suggesting that Jon Katz should _not_. He can't wear a book publicist hat and a Slashdot editor hat at the same time. It just doesn't work- it's wrong- one does not _mix_ roles in that way. I trust CmdrTaco's objectivity- hell, I trust Sengan's objectivity a lot more than Jon Katz's, because although Sengan is very opinionated and has even slanted stories, the stories he posted were not _about_ _him_.
    It's not reasonable to expect Katz to be an objective editor about his own stuff, and indeed he's not. He should be allowed to be an editor on stories he finds that are not _about_ _him_, even sexbots- why not? But others should check out the posts about his book and his writing career and speaking engagements. It's just respectable journalism to not put him in that position- he _cannot_ play that role honorably, because it's not for him to play- except that currently, he's the one who plays it, and it is most inappropriate, and hardly fair to Jon, because he gets criticised ruthlessly for being very excited about very selfish things that he has a perfect right to be excited about...
  • Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:

    Everyone who contributed to the negative thought density here should be embarressed
  • My time is too valuable...

    Yeah, right. You don't have enough time to read, but you do have enough time to sit there reloading /. so you can get first post.

    According to O'Henry this next line is the most amazing literary work ever:

    Plonk!

  • OK, I'll disagree that he's unfit for office. Not that he didn't screw up big time, but considering he's been accused of everything including murder it's amazing he could function at all.

    Nothing wrong with what's-his-name writing about it though.

    Personally, I voted for him because he WAS a pot-smoking skirt-chasing draft-dodger. He'd be the last guy to push the big red button because there's always a new waitress at the local donut shop.
  • just a quick question.. did you use macintosh or linux to write that post? im not critizing, im just asking which one he used, to see if linux can be used fluently to produce good writings for professional use. my guess would be that it was written on a mac, but of course, who knows, maybe he used linux. it would be nice, but not nessessary. :)
    --
    scott miga
  • i think you mis-understood my question. my question was that to see which he used, mac or linux. i wanted to know because then it would tell me if professional work could be produced in linux or if he had to use a mac. the question had nothing to do with the content of his writing per say.
    --
    scott miga
  • heh, i understand that as well, im just finding out if linux can have the user produce good "peices" of work.. in a professional way using tools in linux.. im not talking about the style or kind of writing. :)
    --
    scott miga
  • yes, something to that effect.. :)
    --
    scott miga
  • by suprax ( 2463 )
    amen.. the solution is right there.. rob cant do any more than what he did with author muting.
    --
    scott miga
  • Regarding 'the web' you write that you 'fell in love with it the moment I went online eight years ago'. That's pretty cool. How was that NexT box you were using? Because in 1991, the only OS that had a 'web browser' per se was NexT.

    This is one of my pet peeves. I hear it all the time that so-and-so web designer (usually the guy who grabs MS Front Page demo and puts up a sign) has been publishing web pages 'for well over ten years now' or that they've been 'online' since 1962 or some such crap. While I do admit that one can be 'online' without being 'on the web' (whereas most AOhell people think that online=web) and that online can even mean, yes, dare I say, NOT on the internet. Wow.. what a revalation... but I digress..

    Mr Katz, I'm interested in hearing when you first know about the WWW. Myself, I was learning about 'hypertext' from a fellow student who was doing a paper on the topic back in 1992. I was, at the time, using email, USEnet, IRC and this coolest of cool things, gopher. The WWW as we've come to know it didn't really hit it's stride until 1992, or even 1993, following the release of Mosiac in February 1993. Even still, the web (port 80)was only 1% of all the NSF Backbone traffic by September of that same year.

    Mr. Katz, you know better than to try and impress US with numbers and pissing contests. Don't bullshit us. Now I remember why I stopped reading your posts. They don't speak for _me_ or the people I work with. They don't speak for the people I know in this industry.

    I would also be VERY careful telling people that the 'secret signal' is also a symbol for you getting your throat slit. That's just plain stupid. I can see where the media would take THAT.

    LArry King: So what's with this secret symbol I hear about, all these geeks wanting to kill you?
    Katz: Well Larry, I told them to do it and damned if I wasn't surprised when that crazy guy actually came up behind me and slit my own throat, but hell, I don't think the artificial voice box is too bad, do you?


    Well... I suppose I should just go back to editing this web page of mine that I've had for ten years now, and maybe I'll call Al Gore to ask for some advice on this routing problem....

    Here's your nickel Katz, go get a clue.

  • by mo ( 2873 )
    anyone notice the difference in tone between these comments and the comments on ESR's article below? One can be lead to deduce a lot of things from this about Slashdot, the respective authors, etc. but Jon... RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
  • I don't want to hear about how /. promoted your book! Post something substantive or go advertise somewhere else!

    Yeesh!


    --
    As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
  • What's the matter with Stephanopolus writing about Clinton and why he's unfit for office? Does anyone actually disagree with George on this? George should know, he knows Clinton better than anyone else here. Don't blame George for following his conscious - I would abandon my boss if he was a louse, too. No need to go down with the Titanic.
  • I look at ALL THE FLAME'S, the "JOHN KATZ IS AN IDIOT" messages and shake my head... CT just posted a neat little thing that allows you to CUSTOMIZE what you see... IF YOU CAN'T STAND JOHN KATZ... THEN REGISTER... CREATE A CUSTOM PAGE THAT ELIMIATES HIM!!! (Yes.. I was shouting!)
  • Regarding 'the web' you write that you 'fell in love with it the moment I went online eight years
    ago'. That's pretty cool. How was that NexT box you were using? Because in 1991, the only OS that
    had a 'web browser' per se was NexT.


    Oh, grow up! Being "online" is not the same thing as the Web. I've been "online" and using Internet for over 15 years. I started when I got a high-speed modem (1200bps) and a serial card for my Apple II. I had an account at a University...

    ...richie
  • Good point. Now if he recorded a few songs and released them as mp3's...;-)
  • Unless your name is Linus Torvalds (and he has said that he doesn't read /., so you're not) you have no right to say something like that. What have you in your brillence written.
    If you truely think that Rob is getting rich by posting Katz's stuff, then you are an idiot.
  • Good thing your beliefs don't mean crap to me, or to reality...
  • I think your time is overvalued.

  • So much for the new changes to Slashdot. I'm still seeing this Katz article despite checking of Katz on the exclude list.
  • More than one, actually.

    First, you are an engaging, entertaining writer, and I enjoy reading your contributions to /.

    Second, you have the ability, through your contributions to this site, to spark some of the most heated, polarized "debates" I've seen here. That may not be a talent you treasure, but you sure do possess plenty of it.

    I can only hope that you give appropriate weight to the commentary expressed in these forums - which is to say, that you give more weight to the people who are actually willing to sign their names than to the ubiquitous Anonymous Cowards who, either through poor muscle coordination or poor impulse control, seem unable to avoid clicking those links which will take them to stories that they know in advance they will not enjoy.

    If only I had the time to read every story that appeared under my mouse...

    I am glad that you contribute to /. and look forward to your future efforts.

  • I was reading through this to find some sort of meaning and point to all of this.

    The only things this long post seemed to say are the following:

    1. Thank you Slashdot readers! I was going to be a washed up writer, but I stumbled upon you guys and you gave me a chance!

    2. If you see me on TV, let me know you're a slashdot reader, so I can slum with you guys and feel like I belong somewhere.

    3. Since some of you bought my book, and the rest of you probably won't, I'll be nice and let you get at the text.

    4. If you want to see the real live me in person, come and see me! I love seeing the little people that are my fans.

    Maybe I'm just cynical. Shrug.

    No offense, Katz, but you seem a little full of yourself.

  • What does the operating system have to do with the content of his writing?
  • by Recoil ( 5967 )
    OK... Sure J.K. is the one directly benefitting from this, and when you look at it none-too-closely, he may appear to be getting something for nothing, or something for having done very little, but try and see the bigger picture.

    In 'doing what he's done', Katz has proven that to sell a book you don't necessarily have to go through the conventional motions. He went against the grain, did something a little unusual, something in fact that nobody has really done before. And sure, the result is a bit of money in his pocket, he bloody well deserves it! He took a risk and it paid off, that's what life's about.

    Now that the risk has paid off for someone, others are sure to follow. He's proved that the conventional avenues for book advertising aren't the be all and end all, and that book publishers should open their eyes a little.

    So who benefits? Well, potentially thousands of authors and aspiring authors who would have otherwise gone unpublished, or as Katz says himself, who would have been forced out of publication by sales people only choosing to print a few thousand copies. It's possible then that as a result of that, thousands of people across the world will hear about and read a book which they would not have otherwise read, and some might even enjoy them (And here I don't just mean Katz's one!).

    Imagine a situation where you find yourself writing a book, wouldn't you find it useful to know that this sort of thing was possible?

    Does this sort of thing belong on /.? Well, I dunno... I like hearing about the changes which technology (esp. the internet) is having on the world, and that's part of what /. is about, isn't it? Sure, it's not a new microprocessor or some new piece of nanotechnology, but it's a new process (even if it seemed obvious to you before he did, he's proved it's possible now, to the likes of publishers, proof is worth more than spouting a couple of ideas). In many ways, the internet is about challenging the way we look at things today, from the way we shop to the way we converse with one another, this is just another example...

    You don't even have to like Katz to see the potential knock-on effect this will have. And even if it doesn't, it'll still be interesting to watch.
  • Why bother even putting the time in to BITCH about the BITCHING about the Katz's writing, if you dont like it, dont even OPEN it. Easy enough. Its called a right to free speech.
  • <smile> When it comes to this particular flame, you're right. I just think the folks who flame flamers are kind of wasting their time - but when I mock the flamers who flame the flamers I'm wasting *my* time, too. <shrug>

    Oh well.

    I'm sure the Katz flames will continue despite the new filtering features. A certain % of people seem to enjoy it...so they will always read and always complain. Probably best to ignore them.

  • 'conspiracy to take over the world. Years of Web writing have prepared me for this. "It's not really my turf," I say, as the host, Brian Lamb, nods impassively.'

    I have years of "Web writing" too! John that makes me a NET.GURU just like you! In fact isn't this your first real taste of net writing. A place where people actually give feedback on an almost instant basis on how annoying your drivel is?

    Again this article provides nothing to slashdot except more used disk space. However instead of simply ignoring it as many suggest (including Rob) it is my right and my duty to defend my beliefs. One of those beliefs is that you are a huge detriment to the "slashdot community" and should be firmly cut off before you drag it down anymore.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • Since apparently simple turnabout is fair play...

    "it's my belief that you're a pathetic whiny tadmonkey with nothing better todo than batch at 'juuri' *thhhhhbbhhhhhhh*"

    sm00ch

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • Too many )'s.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • u mus be jon kats in disguize

    ur klever trix kant fool me

    ps jon is it troo u r a foundin member of MoD?

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • by juuri ( 7678 )
    shutup brit

    go back to mesopotamia

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • bahahahahahahaehaehaEHEAHAEH

    "Katz has earned the right to be a respected commentator on digital socio-politics."

    Okay. How? What has he done that has "earned" him the right?

    I can't believe the "narrow-mindedness" of all these Katz jumping bandwagon fodder. No matter how banal the drivel Katz dishes out these people come to his aide and rescue.

    Every argument for Katz centers around the "are you an international known and respected author?" or some other equally invalid critic. Katz isn't a respected author. He is a hack. I swear you people must think USA Today is filled with incredible detailed and accurate reporting.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • Hey it is USENET all over again!@#!@ So in the long time tradition of such famed groups as alt.pud and alt.lamprey I give you a translation for the above post:

    ME TOO!@)#$(*!)@#*%$)!@*#$*!@#$*!@#*

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • I wonder how well Rob has tested his display routine with insanely fun and creative threads like this one!@#$!)@*#$&*!$*
    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • u dumb

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • I have no clue what the above thread is about. I have much better things to do with my time. But it is by far the most indented thread I've seen on /.
  • I've been around for almost two years. Granted, I don't usually read the comments on ones that have more than, say... 250 or so. But I've never come across one that went all the way across in 1024x768 until now. Kinda lame that this thread is about absolutely nothing, isn't it?
  • ...is that the more he writes for /., the more self-referential it gets.

    I can't remember exactly when it got out of hand (although I suspect it was as a result of the initial "hey! people are flaming me because of what I wrote, and I'm now going to write about how the slings and arrows are all part of this wonderful anarchistic culture that we have, and it doesn't really hurt, but sometimes it does when it's a pointless ad hominem thing), but the levels of nesting have now become totally surreal as far as I'm concerned.

    Tip: When some people self-refer (Muhammad Ali, the Muppets, Douglas Hofstadter, Beastie Boys) it's really clever. Others just come off as annoying (Monica Lewinsky, House of Pain, Al Gore, ...). Figure out which side you're going to fall on before you do it.

  • Hah! You forgot to include stdio.h!

    /Nick, with tongue firmly in cheek
  • But could you please shut up and stop screaming around that the web (/.) made it possible. Sure it did, but to most techies that is not interesting. I think you should publish this on a site dedicated to sales (of books). I think this time you've choosen the wrong audience.

    Marco Schramp
  • by Seldon ( 12264 )
    That's the point, I think. He's just showing us how technology GOES on changing the world, even some things we take for given...
    I don't think he's playing unfair.
  • (forgive me for bad syntax/etc., I'm italian)
    His post is the analogous to the Open Source vs commercial debate. It clearly demonstrates the influence and MARKET power of geeks sites/culture/etc.
    A friend of mine had a similar experience as JonK (apart from the /. effect) with a big italian publishing house, and I found JK article VERY interesting in demonstrating how a good book can survive marketing/sales tyranny.
  • Has anyone besides myself noticed how Jon Katz always capitlises his `Dept.'s? I.e:

    This-Is-An-Example-Of-Jon-Katz's Dept.

    as opposed to:

    cmdrtaco-or-sengan-or-hemos-do-it-this-way dept.

    In any case, the discussion ensuing this article (which, by the way, was a pretty good article—it's interesting to see Katz's view of the publishing industry) has exceeded that of the recent article we all known and love in terms of pure entertainment quality. If Katz's last article were mental masturbation, then the comments for this article are mental exhibitionism. It's most annoying because this is actually a good article. Granted, it's somewhat offtopic, but what is /. but a place to post offtopic comments and articles?

    This is almost as fun as the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.email back in the days of the New Jersey Swearing-Harasser, John McGrath, The Church of Forrest Dayton, the Pakistani Spammer, and the girl wanker (AKA Johnboy Junior). <sigh> Those where the days. That was all around the time when we killed Cyberpromo...

    Cheers,
    Joshua.

  • You've got to go to http://slashdot.org/index.pl in order to get your filter working. I almost complained when I saw "Star Wars" come up tonight, baut then I realized that it was "It's Funny" not "Star Wars".

    God, I never realized how much nicer /. is now that I don't have ACs to look at!

    Thank you, Cmdr!!!!!

    Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity

  • i would have hoped that a thread this long would have contained at least one intelligent comment.
    but then again i'm not about to volunteer one- my last post involved declaring my feelings for jello. go figure.
  • i dunno if you've ever tried it, but its not very exciting. i'm sick of windows, and i figured it was time to learn linux, so i built a machine out of some spare parts lying around the house, hooked it up to my pathetic little lan, and started downloading. and if you're reading this and you know of a way of salvaging a redhat ftp install that got disconnected, i'd appreciate it.
  • There is more to life than computers, rather more to computers than installing software and yapping about hardware. I realize there are a lot of flamers, but shit. if you dont like reading Katz, why the hell did you click the link and post a comment.

    It's not a book I would've normally bought, but
    i found it pretty interesting. TO KATZ: i'de like to know if you kept the cabin or sold it before the books sales took off.

    now to the flamerz: dont like it, dont read it. you waste more time relentlssy ripping on this guy.

    -Z
  • Geez. Litin up peeple. Spellin onlee cownts at werk and skewl.

    Besides. Its just like the clipper chip and PIII arguements. If you dont like it, dont use it, so in other words, if you dont like Katz, dont read his posts.

    I like what he writes.
    -Z
  • All those Katz haters accusing /. of "taking the money and run" are missing the point.

    My read (heh...get it?) on this posting is another revelation of the true power of the Internet and of the readers of /. Most of the readers here are pro OSS, anti-MS, programmers, sys-admins and all around technical bit heads. There are many who dismiss us, consider us rebels (or what not) who only care about renegade software and breaking away from conformity (according to industry thinking at the least).

    But we have the ability to be movers and shakers outside of what others perceive as our isolated world. Amazon.com, publishing and media in this example. That's the point.

    Of course I could be way off base, and I'm sometimes a rambler, but it's just my $0.02.

    // Flame on

    Everyone who bought the book knows that /. gets some of the proceeds (any book when linked of /. ...it's on the front page for Christ's sake) and they're adult enough to make their own decisions.

    And bitching cause the 'filters' aren't working. You mean the hyperlinked "Jon Katz" text brandishing the begining of the front page excerpt doesn't tip you off? You clicked to it, read it and posted to it. It's a weak excuse.

    // Flame off
  • Why don't you Anonymous Cowards go away until _YOU'VE_ written your own kernel.
  • Hey I resent dat!!
  • ... and, while I am not terribly impressed with
    Katz's insights into life and the world ("sexbots"
    was a piece of thoughtless drivel), I don't mind
    seeing one author's experiences with the
    publishing industry. Who knows, maybe it'll
    come in useful someday when I write a
    book and need to know how to hype it on the
    Internet. :^)


  • I'm surprised no one has responded to this statement yet...

    It bespeaks of the huge power and force that /. has and can wield in our society...

    While people are free to disagree on what is important or not, it is very powerful that /. was able to boost Jon Katz to some sort of respectability, and to push sales.

    Sure, hate Katz for what he did, but it means in a concerted effort, we could pick and choose any random work, any random title, any random author, and guarantee them in the top 25 best sellers. Its a sign of the power of /. and of geeks and nerds everywhere!


    AS
  • (Note to Rob: I'll admit bias in this because I wouldn't have stuck with Slashdot unless I had seen some of Jon's previous articles.)

    I have something to say to the byte-counting flame idiots out there:

    If you haven't purchased the book, you wouldn't know that a number of years ago, Diane Sawyer ranked below Katz in signifance in the national media -- she had to ask HIM for what she wanted. 99.99% of you will never know how difficult it is to get a book published in the first place -- Katz has several. But not only does this guy takes the time to work with Rob here on Slashdot, he answers e-mails to people like me he whom he has never met, and he puts his ideas out in front of us for consideration on a regular basis, only to get trashed for the effort.

    I paid $14.95 to Amazon for my copy of the book-- so, figuring that most authors get around 10% royalties on their books, then if Katz sold -- hundreds -- of books to Slashdot readers, he's made a few hundred bucks on us at best. But Slashdot could not buy the kind of notice from the big booksellers that Katz brought here for under (and I'll admit this is a guess) $50K-$60.

    So here's what I'd like to say, and I don't care how often I get flamed on this thread for saying it: To all you juvenile delinquents in front of keyboards who have nothing better to do than post (mostly anonymous) coward notes attacking Mr. Katz every time he offers thoughts or commentary on Slashdot, I have one thing to say:

    Either get yourselves logins, use the new slashdot features to exclude Katz' articles... or shut up, will ya!

  • Notice that I said "most" AC's/ I also note that you didn't use any profanity, didn't play attack freak, or anything else which I would refer to as being 'juvenile'. For which I thank you and to the others, I say, learn from this fellow.

    By the way, if you allow your system to receive cookies, you don't have to login. Slashdot is programmed to look for the cookie. A person can always log out and still be AC.

    Something like having your cookie or eating it too? (Lame attempt at humor...)
  • Yeah, but he can spell
  • You use the term us far too liberally. I personally don't give a damn whether or not Katz has done anything for OSS, Linux, or anything else ... he's a writer, and if you like or dislike what he writes that is your opinion.

    What has Katz done for us lately? He wrote a book, something which the barely-literate haxors and irc twits would have a difficult time doing. He wrote several books, which contributed to the literary environment of the US in one way or another. He wrote (peripherally, maybe) about technology, and issues surrounding technology, which is a subject rarely broached by anyone who doesn't have SCI-FI stamped on their books. Whether or not you like his writing, I don't see how you can discount the contributions of any writer who will try to publish "geek-friendly" material.

    Oh, yeah, and maybe take a little less holier-than-thou attitude in your posts ... as long as we're slinging advice all over each other.
  • My filter isn't working!@!!@ I filtered out Jon Katz only, and he's still here!!!
    ARGH, GO AWAY JON KATZ!
    Cry.
  • we could pick and choose any random work, any random title, any random author, and guarantee them in the top 25 best sellers. Its a sign of the power of /. and of geeks and nerds everywhere!

    Wonderful? This is the message I got:

    Mediocre authors, listen up. Need to sell a book, any book, regardless of quality? Just buddy up to a web site with a large following. The site's readers will buy your book just because they recognize your name. Even the ones that think you're a jerk. They may like it, they may not, but at least they're buying!

    I'm sorry, but I don't think this is very wonderful. Are we discerning individuals or indiscriminate name whores? I am not commenting on Katz's writing. I haven't read any of his work aside from the few articles I've seen on /. (To be honest, I haven't made it all the way through one of them.) I do know that, if all I have to look forward to from Jon Katz is a sales pitch (followed by a gloat session), I will definitely be filtering his articles. I'd think that someone who loves "the Web" as much as Katz claims to would be more disheartened about its increasing function as the mother of all advertising scams.

  • He got on the well eight years ago and was one of the first journalists to write positively in the mainstream media (in Rolling Stone) about being online. He also was one of the first journalists to include his email address in his stories.

    - someone who's been online nearly 20 years.

  • Jon mentions that he was on C-SPAN on Monday, March 8. You can listen [c-span.org] in real audio. He talks about /. about 28 minutes into the 75 minute segment. C-SPAN says it is archived for a week (though they usually keep it around a bit longer).

    He was also on the Diane Rehm [wamu.org] show the same day and you can listen to it in real audio. It should be permanently archived.

  • Sorry. Screwed up the links.

    The C-SPAN link goes to someone from concerned women for america (who was after jon). This is the right link [cspan.org]. And this is the link [wamu.org] to listen to the Rehm show.

  • My gods, does no-one get the irony? I refer to all the other posts at the same level as this one, but above it. Read the original post again. Look for the sarcasm in it. Read the subject (which I have left intact). Whether the poster is pro-Katz, anti-Katz, or simply doesn't care, he/she obviously doesn't believe most of the stuff he wrote in his post. Nor does he want to read all the millions of Katz-flaming posts that spout such stuff as "Jon Katz can't spell - and he's a writer?", "Katz is such a wannabe - go away, Jon, until you've written your own kernel.", and so on.

    He obviously knows that Jon never has and never will write a kernel, along with just about everyone else here.

    He/she is simply creating a repository for all the anti-Katz flames, so that he doesn't have to read them scattered throughout the rest of this comment page.
    --
    - Sean
  • Point well taken. Although I want to make one eentsy little comment.

    Jonkatz' articles are clearly headlined "by Jon Katz" on the main Slashdot page.

    Anti-Katz flames, while often are marked as such, sometimes are not. This one in particular wasn't. The subject was just "Time?", and it wasn't obvious before I opened it what it contained, anyway.
    --
    - Sean
  • I think you forgot the "stuff that matters" part.

    Some "Nerds" actually have an IQ bigger than their
    shoe size, and care about something more than recompiling a kernel. For that matter, how many people outside of Linus have written a kernel?

    Before thrashing his book, maybe you should read it. It's excellent.

    As for the book not being relavant to slashdot, clearly that's not the case. According to the data, a lot of slashdotters (including myself) have bought it..

    As for Rob making money off the book sales..
    That only happens if you click on the Amazon's link from slashdot (it tells you he will make money if you do). You can go to the site directly, if you choose.

    Also, Rob and the slashdot crew spend a lot of time and effort to allow us to use this site.
    A site that obviously (due to its heavy usage) is greatly valued by many. A site we get to use for free. Why shouldn't he get something back? Particularly if you have the choice to circumvent this? I made a point of ordering the book through the /. link, as a thank you to Rob for providing me (and the rest of you too, I guess he has enough bandwidth and horsepower that I can share ;-) with this site.

    People, it's time we took a moment to think before we flame people. We wouldn't do it to the person's face, we shouldn't do it while hiding behind an e-mail address! It's just cowardly.

    Ryan
  • I must say that I dont't quite understand the flaming here. No, Katz's book isn't strictly relevant to Linux - but then a lot of other things aren't either. Tunnel vision is a bad thing, I personally like the fact that /. doesn't single-mindedly focus on just the tech stuff. Especially since the new filter stuff allows you to never see the "non-tech" articles if they annoy you.


    As for Katz: good for him! I think people read way too few books nowadays, and anything that promotes literacy is Good(tm). With the current emphasis on mass-market "bestsellers" and huge volumes, it's a very healthy sign that "small titles" can also find their niche. Besides, Jon's book actually is relevant to /. in a way, since the way he has handled the publication is a new way for writers to display their books. Sort of like MP3 is circumventing the big record labels, things like this might help non-bestseller authors survive. Or maybe not, but it is an interesting phenomenon.


    Jon's book sounded interesting, so I ordered a copy through Amazon (haven't gotten it yet, it's coming in the same batch as Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky", yum :). It's weird... I love high-tech toys, but on the other hand there is nothing quite like taking a backback and some camping gear and dissappearing into the backcountry for a few days with no high-tech whatsoever. If you've never tried it you should... waking up at 6am and just listening to the wind and the silence is an experience that's easy to scoff at, but quite something else when you're there yourself. I find myself fascinated by the combination of high-tech and outdoor life, and how they could work together - I live in Finland, and just about everyone is "mobile" in the data connection sense, and it's truly weird to sit at a campsite in Lapland and read your email with a Nokia Communicator. We live in a weird world:)


    Some rambling thoughts from this part of the world...

  • huh? I thought by checking that box I'd rid myself of this.
  • I think there are some different wavelengths going on here. While many writers have said that, for them, the medium in which writing occurs affects the content of what is written, this does not exclude certain media from possibly being used to produce "art" or "professional writing." I can think of many textbooks which have been written on Unices, several of which would qualify as good professional writing (the rest of which would qualify as crap, grumble grumble). While some writers prefer to write in pencil rather than pen, on typewriter rather than computer, or in sand rather than Windows98, that does not mean that quality work *cannot* be produced in these media.

    Perhaps your question is more along the lines of, "do any non-technical professional writers prefer to write their stuff on computers running Linux rather than other media?"
  • It's C++, and incorrect C++ at that. Also, the string is weirdly formatted and grammatically incorrect. Try this:

    #include "iostream.h"

    int main (void) {
    cout }
  • The "less than" character gets eaten, even in "Plain Old Text" mode. Here we go in C, then:

    #include

    int main (void) {
    printf ("English is too confusing. ");
    printf ("Try writing a book in C.\n");
    return (0);
    }
  • Rob! Fix the plain text stuff!
  • char *mental_space;

    mental_space = malloc(sizeof(your_puny_brain));

    strcpy(mental_space, "Something intelligent.");

    ....

    Segmentation fault (core dumped).
  • It's not the expression of opinion that is objectionable, but the use of personal attacks and hyperbole in place of any real thought. I do not really believe that it is the opinion of the above writer that any statement made that we are benefiting from Jon's writing is idolatry, yet he seems to say that it is.

    Any real discussion of the merits or flaws in an article would be most welcome, but there's never any point in reading someone's futile attempt to say "I don't like it" in a more creative way. If that's all you have to say, then you have nothing to say.

    There is enough of value posted here to make it worth the effort to wade through the garbage. But the garbage does get deep.

  • Katz' descrption of his publisher reminded me of "Squeegee That Monitor For You, Sir?" An Open Letter from Spider Robinson Plight of Mid-List Writers [delphi.com]. In particular, Robinson says:
    What they DON'T much want anymore are MID-LIST writers. Quirky scribblers. Ones with faithful but not mammoth audiences. Ones difficult to sum up to a salesman in Paducah with a one-sentence soundbite. Ones PEOPLE magazine isn't talking about. Ones whose books haven't been a hit movie yet. Ones whose works not only reward, but REQUIRE a high-school education and some imagination.
    Robinson notes in his followup [delphi.com] that many other midlist author are encountering the same thing.

    I don't want to live in a five-second-summary world.

    That makes this Nerdworthy.

    So here's a little support for a midlist author. The Connection on WBUR [wbur.org] posts RealAudio files of their broadcasts. Shows are posted as soon as the broadcast is finished, and stay up for one week. Katz' interview should go up at 11AM on 3/16/99 and stay until 11AM on 3/23.

    ( Someone at The Connection must read /. . They've been doing shows about Linux, RMS, and Open Source, which is quite out of character for the Cambridge literati-type host.)

    I haven't read Katz' book yet (and might not; the Salon review was pretty harsh), but it did lead me to pick up Thomas Merton's own book "Running to the Mountain". Katz has done me the service of pointing out an author I might never have read otherwise.
  • when you could simply read something else, and get on with your life? I've heard a lot of stupid crap about "he's not one of us"... what exactly does that mean? How are we going to legitimately insult a guy because he's not part of 'our' group? After all, this isn't high school anymore... Just because Jon Katz doesn't sit at out caffeteria table, there's no reason to post flame after flame, saying what a waste of time HE is.
    And remember... /. is for us, but it's the baby of Rob Malda. If you don't like it, don't read it, but don't start whining about how it's not good enough. If he wants to help out Katz, just ignore it if you feel the need.
  • You must be a student. Only in school is an author's output judged by weight, not by content. Asimov is honored not merely because he was prolific, but because he despite the volume of his work, he still had something to say in each one of them. If you're going purely by volume, you must think that 10,000 monkeys with keyboards can produce "better" prose than Shakespeare... or Katz, for that matter
  • ...you can get Mr. Katz's book here [chaptersglobe.com].
    -
  • ...you can get Mr. Katz's book here [chaptersglobe.com].
    -

"There are things that are so serious that you can only joke about them" - Heisenberg

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