Kevin Mitnick Speaks 156
Signal 11
writes "Kevin grants a rare interview with Forbes Reporter
Adam L. Penenberg and blames the media frenzy surrounding
the now infamous hacker squarely on John Markoff of the
New York Times. More info about Kevin Mitnick.
"
Come on Metnick is a Criminal (Score:1)
CRACKER == GLORIFIED GRAFFITI ARTIST
Don't free Kevin (Score:1)
Doing so without a trial, however, is.
I understand that Kevin is being held without trial due to his own delays.
However, Kevin would not need to delay if he were given sufficient access to evidence and the law library to build his defense.
But if the court finds him guilty, four or five years is not unreasonable for this crime.
The Free Kevin Mitnick web site lists the average sentences carried out by other criminals. This generates deep anger in me, but not because I think Mitnick is being treated unfairly. It makes me mad because these people committing more serious crimes should be in jail for much MUCH longer periods of time.
Don't free Kevin. But do please give him free access to evidence and books to mount a solid defense. And maybe if we were this hard on the more harmful criminals, jail might actually be more of a deterrant.
Facts (Score:1)
Kevin Mitnik is no angel. (Score:2)
Kevin Mitnik was caught and sentenced one year in 1989. Note that he wasn't cracking a porn site to get images for free ; he has stolen a computer-security system from DEC.
He was freed. And then he cracked systems again. And he didn't crack a journal web site to get articles for free. He cracked the machine of a "security expert". And he had no longer the "please he is a young boy, he didn't realize" excuse: he was 31.
Maybe what's happened is unfair to him, but he has really asked for trouble. People rarely let you do twice the same mistake.
Now maybe it will be really unfair, since because of all the cretinous "Free Kevin" advocates and media coverage, he has become a symbol. Now there is a real incentive for the governement or the judge to make an example (scapegoat) of him for all the wannabes.
(but again he made the mistake of doing twice the same mistake).
Sick of hearing about it... (Score:4)
By holding him in such a blatantly illegal fashion for so long, they have hurt themselves worse than Mitnick ever could have. Now there are 100s (or more) of crackers out there that are just waiting to have their day. Mitnick has become a martyr in the classical sense, inciting others to anger and hatred towards our "moral guardians".
I get sick of hearing about it because for some reason, killing someone is less of a crime than knowing technology and using it in a way the government doesn't like. It makes me ill to know what kind of state we are in
Ooops. (Score:1)
Due process (Score:2)
Oh well. Here's to hoping it never happens again.
Due process (Score:1)
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:1)
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:1)
Thats it??? (Score:1)
I would expect a lot more for "several evenings of conversation".
Come on Metnick is a Criminal (Score:1)
Cracker? What the hell did he crack? What hell did he vadalize? What the hell are you talking about? Sure he *is* a criminal according to federal law, but does he deserve to be imprissoned for this long? I think not. He has more than payed his time, let'm go.
Thats it??? (Score:1)
Agreed. That was one the most pathetic "interviews" I have seen in quite a while.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
unfortunate (Score:1)
The thing that I hope happens is the Justice Deptartment gets this shoved down thier collective throat and it causes them to be more reasonable in the future. Call me an optimist, but I think that when this thing gets to court, most of the BS will be exposed as such and the government will come out looking pretty bad.
The cynical side of me thinks that the feds know this, which is why he's been locked up so long without a trial. This way he gets punished even if the judge lets him go, and it gives people a chance to forget the details.
In the end II guess this is a no-win situation, as it is an idiot vs. an impersonal machine.
- doug
PS: I use "idiot" as someone who does dumb things. I have no doubt as to Mitnik's IQ.
Due process (Score:1)
"In April 1996, he pleaded guilty to possession of 15 or more unauthorized access devices (cloned cellular telephone numbers), and for violating supervised release, and was sentenced to 22-months in federal prison."
And the gov't makes an example ... (Score:3)
Ultimately, I believe the government has done exactly what has set out to do. It probably knew that it didn't have a real hard case, but it pressed on. Why? This simple reason:
----Forbes: What do you plan to do when you get out of prison?
Mitnick: "I don't know, but once I get out of here and get on with the rest of my life, I'll never intentionally violate the law."
----True Purpose? Crush. Utterly and completely crush and break Mitnick. And by crushing him, discourage others. Read the alt.2600 website some time. There are other stories, equally, if not more frightening of crackers getting caught and having their civil liberties violated. Stories of Secret Service witnesses making incredible claims of terrorism because a cracker had a war dialer--and thus this proves he's out to destroy the fabric of society.
FUD, plain and simple. But FUD with a clear purpose. And it works.
I don't advocate cracking. But I understand some of the reasons people do it. It is against the law, so there will be a penalty. However, many of these accused crackers aren't even getting due process. And that is wrong.
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs."
Kevin has received his punishment (Score:2)
Kevin's jail time has exceeded that of most fraud-related charges. The government is abusing his rights. Furthermore, many of his charges are very "trumped up".
This is why people support him. He's paid for his crime, and now is the time to seek his freedom.
Victim != Hero (Score:1)
Name three other American presidents in history who lied under oath. And even if other presidents got away with it, bad precident is no excuse to continue making mistakes. Of course, the impeachment trial is over and the mistake has already been made, but this is a bit off-topic...
Mitnick's sentence would be better served if he were to write a paper describing how he performed the crimes itself for the betterment of security in general. Then, he, and the law, would be serving those would were done harm, instead of putting a geek in the same room as 3 or 4 "lifers".
I will concede that Mitnick may have been punished too harshly, and the system may have treated him unfairly. This does not make him a hero, however, merely a victim. Let's stop lionizing criminals because we like their politics.
I could just see someone like you shouting "the anglican faith is the only faith, because it is the law, of course".
I haven't the faintest idea what you mean by this comment. I am not an Anglican, and the Anglican faith is not "the law", at least not in America (I'm American, not British, a fact for which I am most thankful). And I couldn't begin to guess what you mean by "people like you". Remember, there are three types of people: people who can count, and people who can't.
-Eric
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal - so what? (Score:1)
Cool. Not only are you a software engineer you are a Judge, Jury and executioner!
After all, you?ve made up your mind about all of this and it doesn?t appear that you?re open to the discussion of facts.
It must suck to be 20-something and stuck in New Hampshire with a closed mind.
Gosh, Jack, I'm just glad you aren't trying to make this personal . If you disagree with my point of view, argue with me based on the facts. Whatever you think, my mind is open to reasonable arguments (in the past few years, my views on the death penalty and gun control have both changed 180 degrees, so it's not like I've never changed my mind).
On the other hand, maybe you aren't interested in open and honest discussion. Maybe you just want to take snide potshots at anyone who disagrees with you on anything. If that's the case, then you're doing a good job.
-Eric
You're right, but... (Score:1)
a) a criminal
b) not a hero
The fact that he may also be:
c) a victim of excessive prosecutorial zeal
is not one I am contesting. But I object to the trend of making a hero out of this criminal. Mitnik knowingly broke the law and should be scourned, not worshiped.
-Eric
Could you explain this please? (Score:1)
1) He did the Right Thing.
AND
2) He did the Right Thing even though it was against the law and he knew he risked being punished by the government for it.
Could you explain this please? I'm not exactly sure to what you are referring. My understanding is that Mitnik illegally broke in to various computer systems to steal credit card numbers and other private data. Is my understanding correct? If so, how does this constitute "the right thing"?
-Eric
Oops, "Kevorkian", not "Mitnik". (Score:1)
-Eric
That's "Native Americans"! (Score:1)
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:3)
-Eric
Mitnick had no access to evidence (Score:1)
The court decided that KM was such a dangerous "hacker", they denied him access to any sort of telecom or computer equipment. Made it kinda hard to work on his defense with his pro-bono (i.e. you get what you pay for) lawyer. He was denied access to evidence, so he was unable to do any significant discovery or plan a defense. Hence lots of delays.
There was no good reason to keep him locked up awaiting trial, given that he was a nonviolent offender and he was picked up on parole violation/possesion of contraband, not on theft. His case should'a been comparable to a parolee felon picked up on possession of a firearm.
He made the common mistake of plea-bargaining on a high-profile case with little precedent. Plea-bargains only work when everyone's bored and there's no chance egos will get involved.
Correction... (Score:1)
On waiving a speedy trial (Score:3)
Basically, as I understand it, very shortly after being arrested, the government told him that he could either:
1. Go to trial right now, which would not give him and his lawyer(s) time to prepare their defense
or
2. Waive his right, and go to trial at the government's convenience (currently something like four years, without a hint of a trial)
By a million-to-one coincidence, the government was fully prepared to go to court against Mitnick from the minute they arrested him. Pretty funny, eh?
Although what he did was illegal, and he ought to be punished for it, the government really has screwed him royally. My feelings: TRY KEVIN.
And the prohibition on using computers and telecom equipment is outrageous. You can't do _crap_ without using something nowadays. I really can't puzzle out why the government seems to crack down so hard on hackers, as opposed to, say, murderers.
Anyone up for pooling their money for buying an island and forming the country of Linuxania? (or Wrestlemania, I like that....)
Due process (Score:1)
http://www.kevinmitnick.com/indictment.ht ml [kevinmitnick.com]
He has apparently spent the entire time behind bars trying to prepare a defense. What other guilty plea are you referring to?
Due process (Score:1)
What isn't accounted for is the rest of time. My point isn't that he shouldn't serve time for crimes committed. It is that his extensive imprisonment without trial is a big problem that should make us all uncomfortable.
Due process (Score:2)
I don't condone illegal activity of any kind. But the system is extremely flawed. Anyone who rationalizes his imprisonment ought to think very carefully. Paranoia kept Mitnick behind bars. This same paranoia could keep any one of us behind bars too.
Correction... (Score:1)
There. That's better!
Just a thought... (Score:1)
Just a thought!
Mitnick Speaks - interesting anomaly (Score:1)
the second paragraph was missing both the title of
the Markhoff book and the name of the paper in which the article appeared.
As I joyfully prepared my letter to the Forbes' Editors taking them to task for allowing such a thing, I noticed that the cut-n-pasted paragraph
included the missing (invisible?) references.
Anyone else notice this?
The ultimate geek tribute (Score:1)
So if Kevin can't make a living on computer, he should at least thinking about making Free Software instead. It's not like he committed murder or something.
Surprise us Kevin.
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:1)
Possibly right after Nixon got kicked out. Any time before then? The question never would have come up. JFK and Harding had their affairs hid under the table, by the press. Any suggestion to sue a sitting president would have been met with outrage, by both sides. If Nixon had done what Clinton did, he never would have had to lie about it.
Ultimate tribute my ACCELERATOR! (Score:1)
Gah. Shimomura can have it.
Uh. One thing though. You misunderstand. He won't be allowed to own, use, or even TOUCH a computer (for how long I have NO idea). If he cannot make a living at it, he won't be able to write free software either.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Graffiti (Score:1)
Excuse me, but "his fault"? (Score:2)
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:2)
Its a case, im afraid, of morals failing. As we enter a technological world we depend less and less on others, and more on ourselves. 20 years ago Clinton would have been chewed up and spit out, but here in the "modern" 90's no one gives a hoot that he lied, denied he lied, then lied about the lie
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
Oops. Hacker vs. Cracker. (Score:1)
Innocent until... (Score:1)
Now, he may very well have stolen proprietary information, and yep, that's illegal, and that would make him a criminal. But until a suspect confesses and/or is convicted, let's not bandy the word "criminal" around too lightly.
Forgive me if my facts are wrong, I haven't followed this too closely.
I'll buy that. (Score:1)
My zwei Pfennig, or whatever.
My theory (Score:1)
The feds realized quickly that he was a pretty good hacker, they also realized he could be useful. They then brought him in on some top secret information warfare projets. Now he gets to play all day with some seriously fun top secret equipment, and bangs away on foreign governments and industries. The whole Jail thing is just a cover up.
err, maybe I've been reading too many spy novels or something.
(off topic: how come we haven't seen an artile about The Matrix on
Media (Score:1)
Canadian fascination with American trials (Score:1)
So, like, take it easy on the yanks eh.
This Is Fairly Simple (Score:1)
Guilty? Innocent? Who cares? Nobody should have to wait in jail this long for a trial over a crime as simple as thievery.
Shimomura / Markoff (Score:2)
It's one of the most lurid, poorly written non-fiction accounts of anything I've ever read, despite its theoretically having been written "with" Markoff, who as a New York Times reporter really ought to have done better.
The book is full of technical misrepresentations, irrelevant personal anecdotes (unless you find Shimomura's agonizing over his relationship with John Gilmore's ex-girlfriend somehow germane), and breathless descriptions of "the chase" that rang so false as to make me laugh out loud while reading it on the bus.
Even worse, the whole thing is suffused with this weird kung-fu ethos--"Tsutomu, I respect your skills"--that basically serves as a platform for Shimomura's projection of his own godly talents; and make no mistake, his ego is so bloated as to make the Stolls, Gogganses, and Goldsteins of this world seem like shrinking violets.
I had no great amount of sympathy for Mitnick when I started reading the book. Now I feel sorry for the guy. He committed a crime and deserves to be punished, but not vilified as he has been. Judging from what I read in Takedown, the comments in the interview about "the myth of Kevin Mitnick" are spot on.
Cry and Sigh (Score:1)
It's interesting how the article paints Shimomura and Markoff to be the bad guys. Mitnick is being used as an example. He's the evil cracker that got busted.
He couldn´t work in the US... (Score:1)
AtW,
http://www.investigatio.com [investigatio.com]
Due process - Nope! (Score:1)
Consulting? (Score:1)
Due process (Score:1)
Secret Service is rough... (Score:1)
Anyways, my parents quickly contacted a lawyer and was able to stop the SS from taking me away. SS wanted me bad. With the presence of laywer I told the SS and CIA that these were pranks and showed them the printouts from dozen's of BBSs that this stuff is widely avaliable. My supercool lawyer was even able to get most of equipment back except my printouts of thousands of MCI,Sprint, and AT&T codez...
All in all the SS seems to be able to do whatever they want...
BTW - Dr.Who (from 301) are you still alive?
Oops. Hacker vs. Cracker. (Score:1)
I think I am a hacker.
Of course all the phreak activity was done a long time ago. When it was safe, thank you crossbar!
Not Speedy Trial - Denail of Bail Hearing (Score:2)
The point about being denied his rights wasn't about how long he was in custady without trial - people spend years in jail all the time before / durring trials.
He was denied a bail hearing. This is were they can say fine, your a flight risk. Post bond of 5 million dollars. Or for a mass murdering loon, bail is denied. End of story, person goes back to the slamer, pays cash, has friends and family pay, etc.
Kevin never was given this bail hearing, and it's a standard part of the American leagal system. Why? The federal courts have been hevaly regulated by congress, as such have set sentencing and bond rate guides they have to follow. Based on the ACTUAL charges against him, he would have been able to post bond, work on his defence, and easly prove that the majority of the charges against him were bogus or overcharged.
The federal procecutors did what is quite common in organized crime cases - bent the law to be able to procecute. We all love the TV cop shows were the good guys fake some evidence to nap the sick-o-evil crime lord. In this case they "bent" the law quite abit. They let Shimimora - a civilian - use his own set of illigal cellular phone phreaking equipment to track, trace, and record Kevin's calls. Even while Shimmimora was a possible defendet in any case against him when caught as he claimed he had ben hacked.
This would be like the police detective allowing a person who claimed you hit his car in a parking lot, find out where you live, show up with an ak-47, shoot off your locks, kidnap you at gun point and then turn walk into the police station and press charges. Then have the police decline to charge him with possession of an illigal firearm, home invastion, kidnaping, etc. Legaly it's the same.
--
James Michael Keller
Kevin Mitnick is... (Score:1)
...irrelevent except to those script-kiddies who worship him and who he inspires.
I would have pleaded guilty a long time ago... (Score:1)
I wonder what Kevin is going to do for his state case once this is over... State prisons are a worse place then federal ones.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN *** [kevinmitnick.com]
Due process has NOT failed. (Score:2)
Due process has not failed here. Not only is Mitnick a criminal and a punk, but he is directly at fault for his current situation. He waived his right to a speedy trial. He was convicted of crimes previously. Before his current imprisonment he ran from the law. What is the law supposed to do? If not imprisoned during the trial, he would run. He has already demonstrated a willingness to run. He has no stable job. He has no strong family ties. There is nothing to keep him at home.
What is a society to do, given the fact that you yourself admit that their should be penalties? All that can be offered is due process, and that has not failed here.
hahaha who is this? (Score:2)
Actually it would be pretty tough (Score:3)
The media enjoys a qualified privilege in defamation cases. Basically this means that they're protected wether or not the information is true, as long as they published without malice or reckless disregard as to the validity of what they publish. Both of these are very hard to show in court.
This combined with the fact that Mitnick is a criminal with previous convictions makes his case laughable.
Alternative Definitions (Score:1)
Asimov predicted this would happen (Score:3)
The premise of the story was that this was cruel and unusual punishment--not because of having been given the phobia, but because the world had become a place where not being able to use computers of any kind was a crippling handicap. Though we might not have reached that point by the time Asimov wrote that story, I think we're a whole lot closer now, and Asimov knew that day was coming.
And the gov't makes an example ... (Score:1)
Come on Metnick is a Criminal (Score:2)
Ooops. (Score:1)
For those such statements, if they are untrue as claimed by Mitnick, then he will have a formidable libel suit in his grasp.
-jason
Come on Metnick is a Criminal (Score:1)
Come on Metnick is a Criminal (Score:3)
Due process - Nope! (Score:1)
Um, we are talking about the guy who went into hiding when a federal warrant was issued for him in 1992, right? The guy who then evaded Federal authorities for two years? That's practically the definition of a flight risk.
Moderation (off topic) (Score:1)
If this is a feature, and not a bug, I don't know that I like it. I like to hear my own voice as well as anyone else, but I'm not sure it's good to evaluate my current comments on the basis of past ones. "Past returns are no predictor of future gains", as they say in the stock market.
Due process - Yup! (Score:3)
Oops. Hacker vs. Cracker. (Score:3)
Excuse me, but "his fault"? (Score:3)
The ultimate geek tribute. uh? (Score:3)
Due process - Yup! (Score:3)
HEY! He can't even have his name on the web... (Score:1)
Where's the Eighth Amendment? (Score:2)
... you know, the one against "cruel and unusual punishment"? I think this qualifies. It's a perfect way to insure that he'll have no way to make a living when he gets out, except crime.
The (surprisingly well-written) essay on the Free Kevin site had a very strong point about the valuation of the stolen information -- how much is it really worth? There's no way he can ever pay it back, and if he doesn't, they can go after him for that, too. They've got him for life.
Before this whole case, I thought Kevin Mitnick was slime. Now I'm developing more and more sympathy for him every day.
Kevin hype (Score:1)
Our media has created an image for hackers akin to that of terrorists. If I chucked a flaming bag of manure on my neighbor's porch, it would be seen as a practical joke, a bit of mischief, whatever. If a hacker does the equivalent of this online, he instantly becomes a terrorist to the outside world.
I guess part of this hype has to do with the nature of the internet and the access to information you achieve simply through your own dial-up. Since one can jump all over the place with a little browsing expertise, we equate a hacker's prowess over the internet with Big Brother.
So, of course, the prospect of releasing a hacker into society inspires fear in a lot of people. While the hacker's probably contemplating eating his first Big Mac in a while, we're imagining him getting out and immediately logging on and creeping across the internet with invisible hacker-spider-legs to mess with our lives.
I suspect I'll get myself into trouble for saying this, but hackers have really turned into our Communists and Anarchists of years past--Normal people with hobbies (or interests) our government frowns upon.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
-RG
David Drake predicted this would happen (Score:1)
I read a book by David Drake ("Lacey And His Friends") that had a similar premise. Similar, but not exactly the same. Instead of being given a phobia of computers, the main character was given a phobia of women.
The main character had committed a rape in his past. After being caught, he was effectively reprogrammed. The intent was to render him incapable of rape. They accidentally went too far and rendered him incapable of even touching a woman. The mere thought the he might have touched a woman would give him violent nausea (as in "A Clockwork Orange")
A more interesting (and perhaps more relevant) theme from "Lacey And His Friends" is that in Lacey's future, privacy is against the law. By law everyone has to have a camera on them 24 hours a day. There are NO hidden places in this world. EVERY square centimeter in this world is under video surveillance 24x7. And everyone has access to these video streams. All Joe Citizen has to do is find the right camera and he can look in on the board room of multinational corporations, or the bedroom of his next door neighbor. In one of the short stories from the book, somebody mails a bomb to a victim. Lacey uses the video records to trace the bomb from explosion, backwards through the mail system right to the guy who mails it. (He gets substantial computer assist.)
This last reminds me of the Melissa case. I don't have enough information to say for sure, but it sounds as if they were able to trace Melissa's author after the fact, even though he was using a stolen AOL account. If you can even be traced through a stolen account, is there really any such thing as anonymity any more?
Due process (Score:1)
Oh, and Rob... Where the hell did "Ultra Monkeys" come from on my main page? Just curious, cause a Hawaii band has a song called Ultra Monkey.
Innocent until... (Score:1)
As for this whole KM thing, I personally think it should be on a "civil rights" site, not a "geek stuff" site. The liberty violation is the real issue, not the cracker/hacker issue.
Oh well. My dos pesos, or whatever.
kmj
Come on Metnick... But how serious? (Score:2)
This is along the same lines as owning a book on how to build a bomb. It is not illegal unless you actually build it.
We are however venturing into definate grey areas here.
And the gov't makes an example ... (Score:1)
Due process (Score:2)
Here's to hoping they find something to keep him in for another 5 to 10...
Mitnick had no access to evidence (Score:1)
Come on Metnick is a Criminal & Crime==Wrong, (Score:1)
It was once a Crime in this country for women to vote, and for certain people to assert that they were not the property of others. I could spout for days on this, but why bother?
For all you know, the OS I'm using to write this may be pirated, and I may be uploading 128bit-crypto to a server in China. Both of these are crimes, yes? If this were true, I as well would be a Criminal!
So, Kevin stole information. Yet he never used it. Yet this is a Crime, and Mitnick is a Criminal, and thats all we need to know. HE MUST PAY.
When they come for YOU, who will be left to speak? Would that the de-facto Law and its enforcement would follow morality, not the other way around.
re: Don't free Kevin (Score:1)
For instance: I nearly lost custody of my children because a vindictive day care lady was pissed off that I wouldn't pay her for an extra day of labor. Her tactic to get me to pay, was to call the police and report me as a child abuser! My "Public Defender" was very very unhelpful. He wasn't willing to do, or suggest much of anything. It was kinda, "Well let's go on in there and see what happens..." to which I said, "Hey, hold on - look at this." I brought what documentation I had, as well as the results of a medical exam that I had just taken for this purpose, proving that I could not have done what I was accused of doing. Did my PD come up with any of this? No. What did the Judge look at? The stuff that I had brought into court. I got my kids back, but not due to the suposed "laywer" that I had representing me.
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal (Score:1)
As for seperating the prosecution of law from politics, that is an impossible idea. Laws are written by politicians. People sometimes break what they percieve to be bad laws to make a political point. They look to the courts to address their greivances with the law. The judicial branch of government provides a check and balance to the powers of the legislative branch.
I find your inclusion of Bill Clinton as an example of someone being treated less harshly because of politics. Many would argue that his "crimes" were so slight that no regular person would have been prosecuted for them. It was only because he was a political figure with political enemies that he was treated so harshly.
Mitnick is in a similiar situation. A person who committed comparable crimes, but did not get profiled in a NY Times front page article, would not get such a severe punishment. Maybe the law should be prosecuted evenly and impartially. A radical idea, I know...
re: Don't free Kevin (Score:1)
Evidence is one thing-- the prosecution has to turn over evidence to the defense by the federal rules (caveat: all on a strict timetable, you can't hold onto stuff forever).
However, access to books? What, did Mitnick represent himself pro se? There's an apt saying for that: "A man who represents himself has a fool for a client." Since he's charged criminally (fraud, et al.) he'd be Mirandized and have access to appointed counsel. If his appointed counsel needs free books, then it's time to get a new lawyer. Geez, my school lets alumni use their law library for free. If he's representing himself, then delay is probably of his own doing. But if the delay is because his counsel is a bleeding moron, that's a whole new can of worms.
re: access to resources (Score:1)
Until this September, my law school still only had Windows 3.1 on their computers. It's an institutional lag because things are done in a certain way because "that's how we've always done it." Add in a judge who's probably been on the bench for 10+ years with at least that many years of litigation before that, and you've got people that aren't, shall we say, "computer-savvy"?
And as for the mountain of evidence, that's a time-honored practice of burying your opponent. It's the opposite of the defense tactic of subpoenaing everything up to and including the kitchen sink. Only a mere fraction of that "evidence" would ever actually be entered as evidence in a trial, I'd wager, as most of it probably can't prove jack.
Mitnick is not a Hero, he's a Criminal - so what? (Score:1)
Educate yourself.
Kevorkian was convicted of second-degree murder last month. So your "case in point" is, well, pointless. That was in the news, check it out. He did commit a crime and he was convicted of it.
Bill Clinton, I could explain to you, but you don't want to hear it. After all, you've made up your mind about all of this and it doesn't appear that you're open to the discussion of facts.
It must suck to be 20-something and stuck in New Hampshire with a closed mind.
Educate yourself.
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! WAIT A MINUTE HERE!!!!! (Score:1)
Ok, first of all lets get some things straight. There seems to be a lot of misconception here, just as they (federal govt.) have it planned. Wake up people! Let me give you some reading to entertain that grey matter.
Did you know that the federal governments largest industry in the U.S. is the B.O.P. (Bureau of Prisons)? FACT!
Did you know that it is a 9 billion dollar annual industry even larger than the IRS? FACT!
Misconception:
Prison inmates are a tax cost burden to state, federal, and local governments.
Truth:
On a state level this is true (to a certain extent, certainly NOT 70k per inmate/year like they want you to believe).
When you are incarcerated federally you go to work for the B.O.P. starting 17-19 cents/hour. This slave labor (UNICOR, the prison workforce) makes the government on average over $32,000 per year per inmate!
The federal government has an agenda to incarcerate:
The Clinton administration is spending more money building new federal prisons than the entire budget for every school with a federal budget in our education system combined!
Projections?
The projections include from the 1/22 adults incarcerated federally now to a narrowing gap of 1/7 by the year 2005! The Reagan administration was equally as heinous and it is now only a perpetuated cycle of insanity.
Well where does Kevin Mitnick fit in?
Kevin Mitnick has become an open door for federal prosecutors to use as precedence for persecuting the next generation of white collar criminals. You could be next if we fail to recognize. Kevin Mitnick's case will merely become a tool for prosecution.
Here is what I mean:
It seems the FEDS have run fresh out of wire fraud cases to trump charges, with conspiracy blankets, on 18-25 year olds who go to work unknowingly for fraudulant companies that were taking "little old ladies" savings accounts. These "kids" would get a job from the paper, go to work for a bogus company for 5-8 dollars per hour, then two or three years later be indicted on charges. The typical scenario was the owner of the company escaping jail time by testifying on everyone who had worked for him. The unsuspecting people bever even knew anything was wrong with the company til they were on their way to the prison for 4-6 years.
More to it:
The government is constantly developing more ways to get convictions, when entrapment was ruled "unconstitutional" they quickly developed a new blanket for convictions that is still used today called conspiracy. If two people say you did it, you did it (in the federal courts eyes).
"Heresay" has now been duped "circumstantial evidence", many convictions are based on this insane ideology.
Prosecutors are generally very conservative. They typically have political agendas, they want to become magistrates/judges. They measure their success not only by convictions, but by years notched in their belt. The prosecutor whom I have personal experience with had over two million years sentenced.
These facts can easily be researched and I encourage this education.
http://www.famm.org/ ocasionally has good reading and interesting facts. Most of my sources are from a magazine to which I no longer subscribe called "Prison Life".
The government believes we can be easily fooled by media diversions to cover and profit. Think they are working together?
So, what the fuck are you reading the New York Lies for?
Am I paranoid? If you are not I pity you.
I am also pretty sure M$ plays a role in here somewhere. Bwaa hahahaha...
holy shit i am missing dinner!
Nemmi
Just a thought... (Score:1)
What was wrong with holding Kevin (Score:1)
Everyone seems to have there opinion on whether or not 4 years is a justified length of time to spend waiting for trial, I don't actually have an opinion. My problem with the Justice Department was that they held Kevin in prison for 4 years before the trial. Whether it was his defense team, or the prosectuters that held up the trial is immeterial. The truth of the matter is that Kevin should have been out on bail 3 1/2 years ago.
Due process - Yup! (Score:1)
Due process (Score:1)
(American)Fascination with trials (Score:1)
Don't you find it odd that Americans are so preoccuppied with trials? Amittedly I'm not an expert on this issue, but the facts support that he broke into other people's systems, and that he's been held without trial for an excessively long time. That is it lets wait for the (supposedly fair as this is America afterall...) trial, on to something more interesting.
However Americans love trials. The Mitnick trial, the MS vs DOJ trial, the Zippergate hearings, the killer nanny, and of course OJ. It isn't even real trials, witness the rise of John Grisham. Not to mention all the films Grisham related or not that revolve around trials. What about all the TV shows that revolve around lawyers: Ally McBeal, LA Law, the Practice, even something like Night Court. It is an easily observable obsession.
I mean do you really think Grisham will still be read in 50 or 100 years? Is he the next James Joyce? Does the world need another movie about a trial or a book for that matter? Does the media have to besiege the streets around courthouses, and have hourly updates for every trial that comes along?
You would think so according to the American Media, it even spills over into other countries but not with such single mindedness. Mitnick himself would prefer a lot less media coverage, he blames the media not the goverment for his plight. Maybe if people stopped being so engrossed by trials in general, didn't buy 500,000 copies of the next Grisham novel, didn't go see a movie like Takedown, did something more productive with their time, Mitnick would have had a trial by now, recieved a verdict and gotten on with the rest of his life?
Just what I came up with upon reading the article. For the record I'm Canadian and I would be on the Big Endian side of the Jihad.
Muskiesuit-countersuit? (Score:1)
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