The Life of the Sysadmin 191
Manuka
sent us a pretty nifty little story from SF Gate that talks about those
heroes of the wodern workpace:
The Sys Admin.
Talks about their charachteristics, their responsibilities
and the lack of respect they get sometimes. Kinda cute.
And you sysadmins out there should show this to your
bosses and ask for raises *grin*.
Casting PERL before swine... (Score:1)
"The problem with being a "Network Artiste" is that the art form is only appreciated in it's absence."
UNIX admin has the same story. Bad administration is easy to detect... your stuff doesn't work.
Good administration is (and should be) invisible. A good sysadmin should be a creater of tools. Bulletproof network stability and a clean environment should be part of those tools.
Steve Daggett
blitter@mindspring.com
Rob, you did graduate right? (Score:1)
The toys are great also!
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
Demented. (Score:1)
Users are annoying (and how to deal with them) (Score:1)
It is best if you have your users know who you are and realize that you are human, but can still kill the acess with a couple of keystrokes. I spent some time sysadmining at a school with approximately 500 other students and they all knew who I was and they also knew that if I just stared at them when they told me about a problem that they best ask about it later. (I always knew abou thte big problems before they did so it wasn't a concern.)
There are also the joys of having a lab full of sparcs with limited floppy drives. One day you get bored and rearange the lab, leaving one sparc with a slot for a floppy but no drive, and another with the drive and slot. You watch several people go up to the sparc that no longer has a drive, slide a disk in, watch it fall into the case then walk away. When no one is around you just open up the case and count how many users didn't think to check for a drive.
And every once in a while it is nice to see the smile on someone's face when you tell them that they can read there e-mail again.
Jag
Doesn't Fit... (Score:1)
Oh yeah, I live in San Francisco.
The one thing that didn't fit for me was the part about being able to ramble on for 30 hours about what I spend my time doing. I find it a bit harder to quantify, since it's so... dynamic, large in scope, varying. It's like trying to describe the shape of a gas cloud.
The OSI model? (Score:1)
However, IIRC, the DoD four-layer model is more like what the TCP/IP suite of protocols is like. Again, IIRC, the OSI seven-layer model was being offered as an alternative to system based on TCP/IP, but as we all know, it did not succeed in displacing TCP/IP.
alt.sysadmin.recovery (Score:1)
Hey, did you ever notice that the FAQ is 66(*&)^*&%^%T*NO CARRIER
*grin*
---
Donald Roeber
The OSI model is a 7 layer burrito (Score:1)
Physical, uhhhh.... application layer... uhhh...
Yeah, so anyways, it's sort of a pretend thing that someone at IBM or BBN came up with a long time ago. Anyways, here's a reference:
http://www.europa.com/~dogman/osi/
Sysadmin rules of thumb (Score:1)
As a sys admin for a smaller ISP, we usually have to field second-level tech support calls. That isn't so bad, especially if you schedule to work on low phone frequency days. (friday and saturday, but that has the drawback of taking away probably the most exciting days of the week from you).
Most sys admins don't treat users as if they knew what they were doing simply because 95% of users that call really have no idea. It's just natural to assume the person that calls up isn't going to understand you the first few times.
Basically, you have to assume the user is an idiot (and I mean *ID10T*) unless they prove otherwise. Even then it's hard because they use specific buzzwords they've heard that just might make themselves sound knowledgable.
It's unfortunate for the user that does know what they're doing, but if you want to get something out of a sys admin, you should probably state the exact nature of your problem (be specific) in as few words as you can. There are so many times when I've had a user ask me a question and I'll know what the answer to his problem is as soon as he opens his mouth, but he goes on and on. It's bad for business to yell at users over the phone.
Other than the misfortune of users calling up, my job is a blast. If something isn't broken, I usually spend the day optimizing typically used commands for our particular system (you DO have the source code to your system, don't you?
Lately I've been doing junk with NT. I know it sounds horrible and I feel somewhat tainted and dirty whenever I finish up what I'm doing on it, but it's almost tolerable if you install Perl.
While I would consider myself a sys admin, I also program considerable amounts when I'm not doing sys adminly things. It's hard to sum up the job accurately so I just use this equation:
Systems Admin + Programmer = Systems Development
I consider that my title. That work for anyone else or what?
Ick. It's late. I should sleep.
Reading comprehension (Score:1)
At the beginning of the school year, I thought our sysadmin was an incompetent jerk and was constantly complaining and saying how much better I could do. One afternoon, he chewed me out. As it turned out, his problem was not so much his own inability to run the system, but that his freedom was being crippled by a slew of stupid rules, plans, and policies written by the administration. In an academic or government setting, never underestimate the power of technological stupidity of the administration. After I understood this, he and I got along better.
Now from the sysadmin perspective: "Know it all" users are basically a black-and-white issue: they're either a lot of help, or utter hell. The biggest problems are not the users who are clueless, but the ones who "know it all." They aren't the ones who take up the most time, but the ones who are the biggest hassle to deal with because they always insist they're right. There are details about computer systems that we know that the users don't. It's a fact of life. Either we won't, can't, or just haven't been able to tell you, and you either need to live with that, or ask in a calm manner (for which we will almost always give an obliging answer). Every sysadmin I know, including me, gets harried when helping users. Seeing "clutter" just upsets us. While I agree that it probably wasn't necessary to completely re-arrange your icons, it may have just been to preserve his wearing-thin sanity -- how do you know he wasn't working under a lot of stress, like most of us do? We also tend to be pretty possessive about "our" systems, and there is some degree of justification for that. It's our paid job, so please respect it. Do you not think you have some students who think they're smarter than you are? How do you feel if they shoot off at you? In some cases, they may be darn well smarter than you, but they still need to recognize that there's still something they can learn and they need to respect you. Sysadmins are the same way. Like it or not, we're paid to run your system, and thus demand at least a little respect. It is a difficult thing to understand without actually having had the experience, so please either take my word for it or ask your current "highly competent and nice guy" if you can have a day-long sample of what it's like.
In rare cases, it may be that you are in fact right and that your sysadmin is truly incompetent, in which case, you take it up with the administration, not the sysadmin {him,her}self.
UNIX/VMS admins make good NT admins (Score:1)
The worst part about NT, I think, is not so much that it's just an inferior OS, but that it's an entirely inferior model for an OS. It makes stuff too easy, which means you never learn about how and why the computer is doing what it is. This is just fine for end-users, but for a sysadmin, this is a Very Bad Thing. The UNIX (adn I guess VMS) admins understand the computer, not just knowing about the computer.
sysadmin aprenticeships? (Score:1)
My advice is to find either a small company that needs another admin (or even one to being with!) that is willing to take someone with brains but not a long resume. Either that, or find a nice sysadmin in a large company who will be willing to take you under his/her wing for a year or two.
Mr(s). AC Responds (Score:1)
That's not what I said. You need to be one to really understand what being a sysadmin is like. Trust me. It's not something you can really empathize with.
I have. Probably a lot more than you.
You're probably right, but pissing contests prove nothing nor does greater volume indicate greater understanding.
Sysadmins don't create anything. They're tinkerers. A few of them here and there may be inspired tinkerers who more than earn their pay, but I sure haven't ever met one like that.
Further support that you don't really understand syadmins. It's true that sysadmins don't "create" in Rand-ish terms, but they're definitely as much architects as Howard Roark or Peter Keating.
My originial proposal stuff stands. Go become a sysadmin, don't be so closed-minded about Rand, and then re-read your post.
Are you drunk? (Score:1)
Assuming your post is not intended to be humourous, I submit this 3-part suggestion:
- Become a sysadmin yourself
- Read some Ayn Rand for yourself
- Re-evaluate your post
It's not a good idea to try to start a flamewar when all you have is fumes.
The microsurf lovers. (Score:1)
And *I* am closed-minded (Score:1)
SCNR,
Regards, Jochen
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:1)
- reboot. If that doesn't solve it
- reinstall.
But the idea of bringing servers down so that people know that you're on the job is a good one - very BOFHish.
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
Get a degree of some sort to prove that you can learn, read the camel and the bat books, get an entry level position at a small startup where you have to do everything for everbody, and you're on your way to understanding an Adminspotting t-shirt [cam.ac.uk].
thank you! (Score:1)
it took me some time to believe that they have a picutre of my job that wrong. and some more time to make at least the PHBs of other departments understand what im doing and that unlocking network accounts on monday ("that password did work on friday") is not what im coming to work for.
its becoming better now. slowly.
Union = Greed. (Score:1)
WOP ??? (Score:1)
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:1)
I was a sysadmin for TWO LONG YEARS... (Score:1)
-Eric
Day in the life of an NT administrator.. (Score:1)
while(not_working) {
if ( reboot() == TRUE ) {
printf("What an NT genius\!\n");
break;
else if ( re-install.os() == TRUE ) then {
for (a=1,a++,a5)
( re_install_servicepack[a] ) ;
}
else break;
backup_from_tape();
printf("What an NT genius\!\n");
break;
}
else printf("Upgrade to Win2000");
break;
)
Computer Science (Score:1)
--
Steven Webb
System Administrator II - Juneau and TECOM projects
NCAR - Research Applications Program
I'm a linux sysadmin - here's my duties: (Score:1)
More issues: some users come to me with questions that require me to revert back to my programming days like, "I'm trying to write a script to do
Other people come to me and ask how to take screen-grabs of stuff or something - things that any user should know how to do. It really makes me wonder who hired these people? (I just had to that very same thing just now as I was writing this note).
I can deal with sendmail and password files; that stuff is brainless - the tough part of the job really, is doing people's work for them or putting together a project on a shoestring budget and having people wonder when it doesn't work like a million-dollar operation and point fingers at me.
My message to all of the non-admins out there: take your admin out for a beer once in a while, because if you piss him/her off one too many times, you're going way down on the admin's priority list and you'll have to figure out how to deal with this stuff by yourself. We're here to help and support you - be appreciative.
--
Steven Webb
System Administrator II - Juneau and TECOM projects
NCAR - Research Applications Program
Re: This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:1)
My non-linux friends didn't get it. They saw me as being a nut for turning down multiple-grand bonuses. Fact of the matter is, I do not want to work in an institution that would OFFER such a thing. It indicates the worst of the PHB attitude which commercial licensing propagates.
Furthermore, I would consider it a moral compromise on my part to take such an offer. This is the part I didn't understand forementioned friends not grokking. I guess it's all computers to them.
*shrug*
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
One of the glories of the sysadmin trade is that there is not any one course of training to encapsulate it. Programming, networking, screwdriver jockeying, human interaction... you need to use a bit of it all.
My advice would be to major in whatever the hell you feel like. Hell, get a BA in Underwater Basketweaving. Then get out in the real world, take a couple hits, get some weight under your belt, and give it a shot. You'll know when you're ready.
So little mention of the users... (Score:1)
...especially the really irritating ones:
Me "It's a bug in Word, here's a workaround."
User X "Well, can't you just reprogram it?"
Me "[mumbled comment about Bill Gates] It's a bug in Word, here's a workaround."
Then, of course, is the occasional user that actually helps, and understands my duties. The one who knows I came in on a Sat to install a new switch or network printer, and takes the time to thank me for it. Those (very few) users are worth their weight in gold, if only because they make me feel appreciated.
Unfortunately, the only part that usually gets back to my boss is the mumbled comment about BG. Sigh.
quotas (Score:1)
By no means are all male sys admins bad, BTW-- i'm just saying that we can't name quotas as the be all and end all reason behind poor quality sys admins.
Whatever.
--anneke
whatever you please..and run linux (Score:1)
A lot of the other posters have it right-- It's all about experience. Sure, dabble in programming, it'll totally help you out-- but I know way way more about UNIX, linux, troubleshooting, being a webmaster and sysadminíng than any of my comp sci major friends (and I'm even at a women's college), because that's not what they teach you. 1- Read the O'Reilly books (like someone else recommended), 2- Read the redbook (System Administrator's Handbook, i think), 3- Take a couple/few programming courses on the side, 4- run Linux.
I'd say the last helped me more than anything else-- having an actual system running and playing around, especially if you (are allowed to) have other users on your box.
Personally, I've learned more job-relevant stuff by working in the computer center, having a linux box, and being a sysadmin/webmaster for our college student web server, as well as asst. admin for the college email server, than i have in classes (even math/comp sci ones).
Pardon my verbosity...cheers and best wishes!
--Anneke
Privacy? (Score:1)
Not quite. Most systems have motd's explaining the policy so you have it every time you log in and can't say they didn't tell you. Normally, it's something along the lines of...
1- people using the system in excess of authority may be monitored and have their activities recorded.
2- in the course of monitoring abusers of the system or during general system maintenance, authorized users may also be monitored.
3- users of the system implicitly consent to the above policies, and users realize the legal repercussions of illicit use.
...or something to that effect. Basically, SysAdmins are supposed to let you keep your privacy-- innocent not until proven guilty, perhaps, but innocent until suspicion causes the sysadmin to check out a few things. Although somewhat Big Brother-esque, it also provides a certain level of security for the legitimate users out there.
--Anneke
fits fairly well (Score:1)
I for one haven't achieved the rank of Supremely Bitter and Frightening SysAdmin yet, and hope I don't. I
I digress-- basically, I think it's pretty accurate. And as for the $60k US-- I'm only going to be making half that (post-grad in May), but remember, we're also not working on Silicon Valley..and it's also dependent on experience.
--Anneke
atlas shrugged (Score:1)
Putting down Rand w/o having read her-- careful. I've had more people see me reading her work and say "I
As for the rest of your commentary-- touche'.
--Anneke
um.... (Score:1)
Although men are the vast majority, I for one find it admirable that a
--Anneke
A: to your Q: (Score:1)
-- Anneke
SysAdmins (Score:1)
showed this to my boss. His response: So what...
bummer
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
On second thought - maybe that track doesn't work for everybody!
Seriously, I think that just about any major is fine, so ling as you have the interest and aptitude for sysadmin work. Liberal Arts may be a good place to go, personally I find that a lot of "diverse thinkers" tend to come from that background and it seems to help. Is it the person or the major? I'd say it's probably more the person, though ou can learn "how to think" in a good college program.
developers whining (Score:1)
Well, haven't I used enough crappy software in my life to think that developers are morons? What about all the shitcan applications I have to make work on a daily basis? Oh, yeah, developers are gods. Right.
What you don't understand is that while yes, we have essentially a service based job, we also have an utterly thankless job. Most of our time is spent dealing with flashing-twelve morons who know about 5% of what they should know about computers. Then there are the idiots who know about 25% of what they should know - look out. These are the idiots that think they "own" the computer and install all sorts of crap on it, download pirated shit all day, and make your life a miserable, intolerable hell.
The other day a luser came up to me with some ascii garbage her printer spat out at her. She showed it to me and asked "What does this mean?!" in a very surly manner. I told her I didn't have my decoder ring. She wasn't amused. "You're the computer person, you're supposed to know what this means!!" she insisted. I look at it for a second and pretend to translate: "you .. are ... umm .. a FUCKING MORON!". Well, that's what I wanted to do anyway.
No one cares about your lunch hour. Everyone expects you to say "how high" when they say "jump". And we're all underpaid. So go to hell!!!
Oh, and yes, there are a lot of cluessless support people, but they are not real admins. I was dealing with one the other day who literally didn't know how to compress a file to email it to me (it was a word doc - of course - and way too large to email). I don't understand how people like this get jobs, but, whatever.
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
They call every five minutes because (Score:1)
Demented. (Score:1)
This quote reminded me of that Russian Roulette PERL script that either Cmdr. Taco or Hemos wrote oh so long ago. :)
Users are annoying (Score:1)
"Mr. Sysadmin, my 'elm' keeps beeping when I read this email message!"
"Too bad, you should have been using 'pine' instead. Use a mailer that actually knows how to handle attachments!"
"Mr. Sysadmin, how do I delete a line in 'vi'?"
"Who cares! Everyone should be using EMACS or pico"
"Mr. Sysadmin, the Internet connectivity is slow again"
"I'm working on it" (I call some stupid help desk and they ignore it for 3 hours before they realize they unplugged one of their ATM lines -- *again*. ATM really stands for 'a' 't'errible 'm'istake.)
"Mr. Sysadmin, I need some help with this..."
"CAN'T YOU SEE I'M BUSY?"
(I'm really re-compiling GIMP so I can doodle all day long and look busy).
sysadmin aprenticeships? (Score:1)
Good luck.
-S. Louie
Day in the life of an NT administrator.. (Score:1)
--Ivan, weenie NT4 user, Jon Katz hater: bite me!
Hey... (Score:1)
Yes, I know I should have posted this as an AC, because now, my High School's sysadmin will know my SlashDot nick. As I did not already find his.
:)
Urban Sysadmins? (Score:1)
I on the other case, I have a ponytail, and I'm a Teenager!!!!
:)
Good sysadmins are rare and usually underpaid (Score:1)
Sysadmin status (Score:1)
The article also brings up a interesting point re: sysadmins and human interaction. I'd say it's probably the #1 most important part of the job. Someone has to respond to all those problems (well, if there are any for those Linux sysadmins
I didn't see any mention of the bastard system operator from hell, though. Anyone have a good link?
So leave (Score:1)
Dickhead sysadmins (Score:1)
Bah! I can't stand to argue with you anymore.
certifications for tech workers (Score:1)
And of course, there's that MCSE certification ^_^
there IS a union...sort of... (Score:1)
So, yes, there are unions that probably docover some sysadmins, or something similar to such. It really depends on what positions at a company are covered by the union contract. The union, as it has been posted later in this thread, covers more a specific company than a job. Exceptions to this may be unions like the IBEW which does solicit independent electricians to join. I'm not that sure about where the technical fields fall in.
Sysadmin's major? (Score:1)
My degrees (having been a professional student for awhile
---
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will deserve neither and lose both."
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:1)
I've done both, and like each for different reasons. Sys-admining is cool because of the variety of work and the pragmatic mentality the job engenders.
Programming appeals to my creative/builder side more. I enjoy the process of taking an abstract idea and turning into a concrete, working app.
To use a metaphor... its sort of like the difference between a handy-man and a carpenter. The handy-man is all over the place, doing everything from electrical work to painting. While the carpenter may take a few months to build a table and chairs.
---
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will deserve neither and lose both."
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:1)
I would love to be a sysadmin, because it's about the only thing I know I could be quite good at. Unfortunately, I'm a Risk Analyst, which is interminably dull by comparison...suggestions, anyone?
Urban Sysadmins? (Score:1)
Oh, yeah? Yeah! :) (Score:1)
Most systems administrators have a difficult job, most of these comments are by programmers who insist that we can't do there job. To be honest, I'm a great programmer. I haven't been good at much in my life, but I've always been great at that - however, I can't be arsed to write Databases or bloody awful Access based kludged which look good but do bugger all.
And we know about Access....
As a systems administrator you get this a lot, a manager outsources the project to a software house, or IS services company. The company produces a piece of shit program which only just fills the spec (which hasn't been back to the systems admin or even the poor buggers who have to use the application - it may have been to there manager, who hasn't the slightest idea). The program is implemented, with out IS even seeing it before hand. And then its up to the systems adminstrator to support it.
This is not the fault of the programmers who wrote what they expected to be a prototype, or the admins who have to support the shite afterwards, and its definately not the fault to the users who have to use it. It's the fault of the management who haven't got the slightest clue, but insist on making the decisions.
But the point is (after that I have a point), the question is you have to know how to deal with it. Yes you get bad sys admins, this is because either management employ seemly competent techies which no personal skills, or morons who can answer the phone well but finds Windows 98 complicated. When I was still doing desktop support, many of the agency staff we were allocated had never used DOS before, I daren't let them near UNIX.
Also, programmers aren't really users - they are techies, whenever I've worked anywhere with programmers we general allow them to "heal thyself". As long and they don't screw the box and respect the fact that the real users - those that make the company money, are more important than they are.
Cor, that was a long post.
Mark.
Jod description (Score:1)
I used to do hardware work - then I fixed computers, then I did Desktop support, then I turned computers on in a way that made the users not feel stupid (which they were, frightenly. These people had slip on shoes because they couldn't handle laces).
Now, er, I "do stuff with computers to keep them working". They look at me as if to say that doesn't seem so hard.
You try and automatically produce a web page to show the revisions of the operating system in Perl while at the same time, incorperate new, non standard, hardware, with virtually no documentation, and then write an ISO compliant document to tell the rest of your team how to do it again, while being constantly interrupted because NIS-bastardly-plus isn't working again.
Mark.
Dickhead sysadmins (Score:1)
I believe the point being made here is that the positioning of the icons on the desktop is in no way related to any networking problems. I know the pain of repositioning all 30 icons on my desktop, and one of my bigger complaints is when Win9{5,8} rearranges them for me.
Moreover, the computer in question came with Office installed. If the university/corporation does not want Office installed on its machines by the manufacturer, they should tell the manufacturer that when they order. I believe that this sysadmin had a bit of overbearing arrogance with a touch of control-freakishness thrown in.
Mike
--
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:1)
Can I get an "amen"? (Amen!). I'm at my best when I'm "making things go". Nothing like fighting entropy to make it through an otherwise boring day. Fixing things and making things work are what make me happiest. (BTW, I don't understand coders either.)
Mike
--
Jod description (Score:1)
When my mother (or somebody else with a not so technical background) asks me what I do for a living I usually tell her that I pat computers on the belly so that they are kept happy.
Thinking the bad thoughts that keep the systems running next week is the picture for those who know something about computers.
I feel this gives a good picture of sys-administration, the best job there is you do things once, the second time you automate it.
And no ponytail, cut that of years ago...
Thanks everyone! (Score:1)
As far as getting experience, I'm starting school up there this summer so I'm gonna try to get a job in the network department as soon as I can. Thanks for the tip. As far as previous experience, I already was sysadmin for my high school's lan (nt and netware -puke-) It made me from a geek to a school hero once I put Quake on the network though
Thanks again everyone
-Lee
sysadmin aprenticeships? (Score:1)
Think about it, it works well in other fields where a high degree of technique and hands on experience is needed and the current problem of people graduating from college or a certification course not knowing much of anything could be solved.
As a person with absolutly no real professional experience and only 3 years of college as a CS major I would welcome a 1-2 year job at low pay if I could learn something and guarentee career growth.
Life is good.. (Score:1)
This job is exactly what I wanted it to be, which is doing something that no one notices until it goes wrong, meaning that if I do my job right no one notices me (except for my boss, who hounds me every day) unless I appear at one of those "employee recognition" functions. (Does anyone ever go to those things? I'd like to know... People tell me that all black is bad for a formal affair, but they sure as **** don't want me wearing t-shirt and jeans)
BOFH home (Score:1)
Sysadmins Union! (Score:1)
"80 hours every 2 weeks" is not the same as "80 hours a week." if the former is the correct number, I have no problem with that, being required to work over 40 hours a week to recieve overtime makes sence to me, I also think that the 12 hour shift number is reasonable, I know quite a few people who's regular work shift is 12 hours, if their company was required to pay them overtime every time they worked I don't think they would have a job for very long. If indeed the article you were referring to said 80 hours per week, I think that's not only rediculous, but more than likely a violation of federal labor laws.
-Ted
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:1)
> routers, racks, RAIDs, switches, CAT5 cabling,
> thicknet...line printers, ZIP drives, CD
> burners...
That paragraph is better than porn.
-Chris
Dickhead sysadmins (Score:1)
Had it occurred to you that your particular sysadmin has to go through several offices every day, working on machines with stuff cluttered up all over the place, and still have to fix a machine without touching any of your precious icons?!? This would be similar to a car mechanic trying to fix your vehicle without being able to touch the hood of the car!
Many organizations, including Universities, have specific rules about what types of software can be installed on a system. The system administrator is usually the policeman having to lower the boom on software. Many users install all sorts of garbage on their computers, never heeding the fact that this software may be incompatible in a multitude of ways with the OS, with other software on the system, or with the computer in general.
You, sir, appear to me to be like the users vaguely referred to in the article. You sit on your little thrown believing the computer you use is yours! You preach about his condescending attitude, yet you go right on to say you gave him "tongue lashings"?
Bah! I can't stand to argue with you anymore.
7 Layers... (Score:1)
Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Data-link
Physical
Oh, yeah, I'm 18, in high school working on getting my Cisco certification. Oh yah, my A+ too.
Where's that sysadmin? (Score:1)
Yup. I know where the sysadmin is: im sitting in front of my comp, typing these words.
Doesn't Fit... (Score:1)
I do find it interesting how in canada the work week is much shorter then here in the US and well, i don't see how you could get close to what happens here being that way.. the jobs i saw up there while browsing considered full time to be 25-30 hours a week.. pshawww i wish it was like that here. i'm lucky to be under 50 hours a week at the office (and alot more spent at home/onsite and whatnot).
while the money is good. the life of a sysadmin is busy and fast paced.. i'm not here for the money, i like the people, i like the tools i get and i like being able to take credit for building the systems i build.
i definatly say its more of a pride system, and good admins are proud of what they do and thats the only good reason we spend the many hours of our life starring into these big ass monitors.. to be able to say look what i did
Oh yeah?! (Score:1)
Oh, yeah, did I mention I don't know what the 7 layers are in the OSI? Thanks for enlightening me! I'm the MSCE test tomorrow. Think it will be on the exam?
Looks like somebody is riding a big fucking ego.
--
"Fuck you." - Me
Sysadmins Union! (Score:1)
Think before you type.
BOFH (Score:1)
And be sure to check the "Other FINE Works by Simon..."-Link!
BOFH (Score:1)
/.'ed already... (Score:1)
Well, I guess the /. effect worked. This note just went on-line and I already can't get there.
Late hours is right, but the job can be boring... (Score:1)
I am currently installing NT using instructions written by some goddamn committee which we have to follow. I've done about 30 reboots and each one takes 5 mins (no joke) and I'm getting mighty pissed off.
In a large organization sysadmins have to follow standards, which limits creativity. You have to go through CHANGE CONTROL for the slightest thing. The levels of beurocracy are a pain, it takes weeks to get anything approved.
I'd like to work for a small/medium sized org where you are not constrained so much.
Definitely right on the certification issue... (Score:1)
Software regulations (Score:1)
Sysadmin... A way of life.. (Score:2)
Fear is my only adversary, that maybe I might make a mistake, and not catch it until it is too late. I'll never forget the day I lost my NIS server for the third time in one day..
Sysadmins, the good ones at least, have to be able to see into the future, deal with the present, and learn from the past to make today happen. Thank you programmers for creating the world I live in. Thank you Network Admins, for making the roads I traverse, and thank you Users, for making me usefull...
-D.Alphaeus
Dickhead sysadmins (Score:2)
I'll rag on just one guy for now. First there was the sysadmin (or whatever the hell he was) that had to connect my computer to the network. It ended up being a bit difficult for him (I don't know why, since the computer networked just fine for the previous occupant of my office). One of his first comments when he looked at my desktop was "You can't have your icons there", and preceded to rearrange my desktop. Listen, bub, I can have my icons any damn place I want them. I eventually solved this problem by pasting a sign on my monitor that read: "Rearrange my icons and you die!".
Meanwhile, this clod sees a copy of Microsoft office on my machine and informs me that since University doesn't have a site licence for it, he will come back tomorrow and delete it for me. A few hours later while moving my stuff into the filing cabinets, I come across a Microsoft Office for Gateway CD that shipped with the system. Damn moron didn't know what software belonged on what system. The department could have bought me a copy of Mathematica to run on my system, and he would have tried to delete it. Moron.
The worst part was that he was a condescending jerk from the beginning. Keep in mind that I was generally known by my students as the nicest and most laid-back professor in the department. After a few more days of his condescending attitude and incompetence (If the guy would have given me the IP address and password, I would have had everything up and running in 5 minutes), I blew my cool. Here I was, a 28-year-old PhD that started computer programming in the 1970's using Fortran and punchcards (yes, I started young), and this computer "plumber" that didn't have 1/10th of my computer knowledge was treating me like an imbicile. After I gave him a few ego-whipping tongue lashings, the guy started treating me (and my fellow faculty members) like human beings. A few months later he was gone.
I feel sorry for the schmucks that hired him.
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:2)
I still draw my idea of a sysadmin from the big red book "Unix System Administration Handbook" by Evi Nemeth et al. When I saw how it covered everything from adding a disk to a UNIX system, moral issues with root powers, all the way to the sort of hardware you use in networking, I was hooked. Who wants to program ten hours a day when you can be out there making things go (rhetorical -- I know there a plenty of you who just want to code all day. I just don't get why).
Palms, notebooks, wire rooms, raised floors, routers, racks, RAIDs, switches, CAT5 cabling, thicknet =), shell scripts, kludges, line printers, ZIP drives, CD burners, Perl -- these are the spice of life.
Give me a job as an admin and a workplace where they appreciate what I do and I'm happy as a clam.
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So leave (Score:2)
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The OSI model is a 7 layer burrito (Score:2)
The lower layers map okay, if you're not too picky about details, but things get fuzzier and fuzzier the higher up you get. And I never have figured out what the point of the application and presentation layers is...
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:2)
As far as I'm concerned, the inability to update a live system is a bug. With Linux, if I lose a drive, I can install a base system, on the replacement drive, boot it, restore a backup on top of the live system, and, if I haven't done any extensive kernel modifications, I don't even have to reboot it when it's done restoring...
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:2)
Last time we had a major NT failure at work (lost the C drive) the Unix admin and I ended up standing around watching in morbid fascination as the NT guys spent hours trying to get the thing to restore a backup onto a live system drive without hosing the registry.
It was amusing at first, but after the first dozen or so times, "NTOSKRNL.EXE missing or corrupt" got kind of old...
Users are annoying (Score:2)
On the other hand, it would be pretty boring without these (sometimes misguided) individuals...
(How the hell did you get your pencil stuck in the diskdrive?!)
Mathijs
Privacy? (Score:2)
In any profession where power can be abused --- in other words, in any profession --- people need to think about ethics. Doctors and lawyers do it all the time, and a person can have his/her license to practice medicine or law revoked if s/he violates the ethical standards of his/her professional organization.
System administration is no different really. Saying that just because your employer owns the computers that you are ethically justified in following any order they give you regarding the computer is to create a moral vacuum.
The OSI 7 layers are useful... (Score:2)
Try to explain what a bridge or a switching hub does using the OSI layers, and then without. See what's clearer, and what conveys more information.
See?
I must confess I have never calculated dissipation requirements for a computer room and I do call myself a sysadmin, though (well, the architects that designed the buildings did ask me about power usage, and they did calculate based on that).
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:2)
Now lets think about this. Unix= no crashes, NT= crashes. unix admin= someone wasting resources and money, NT admin= hero who saves the company and network and makes sure that your network is safe. In other words, if the co-workers can't see me then I am not there or not needed. hmmm which side should I take
Of course I will always use linux at home.
Sysadmin's major? (Score:2)
-Lee
This article explains why I prefer NT (Score:3)
Nice sprinkling on the subject (Score:3)
After a time I got to experience the typical large IS department politics, hubris and the bags under the eyes of most senior IS managers... The future for IS people doesn't look pleasing, unless you really enjoy being yelled at by users and having to put up with incompetent coworkers. Everyone and their dog wants to be a sysadmin/IS worker, with MCSE's being more common than VISA cards now. It didn't seem to be what I wanted in a career - everyone else was doing it, and I didn't see the potential to differentiate myself enough to advance to the level of salary & responsibility that I wanted to have.
So - the stories in this forum are comforting because they remind me that there ARE (a few) competent sysadmins who are trying to fight against the tide of managers and cheap, clueless-neophytes turning IS into a "factory worker's job".
Anyway.. I got into programming heavily over the past three years, especially with higher level languages like Smalltalk, ObjC and Java... and the thrill is pretty similar: you make things work, but this time it is on a much grander scale. There is *so* much to learn in programming & designing and communicating with users/coworkers that it is a never ending journey
Of course, what I *don't* understand are the coders who label themselves as "C coders", or "COBOL coders", and basically sit in a corner all day, bitter at anyone who challenges the "one true way".
To me, this is sort of like arguing in favor of stone tablets vs. paper. While I can see the joy of twiddling bits with older/lower level languages, programming can be so much more than that, given a broader set of tools and stylistic ideas. Use the right tool for the right job - Perl vs. C vs. Java vs. SmallTalk.. they're all good for their own uses. [well, Perl is good for everything, but.. >;) ]
Programming is great BECAUSE there are so many paradigms, styles and idioms, and the religious wars continue to amaze me.
On the ironic side, there seem to be as many clueless programmers out there as there are clueless IT people (if not more so)... though for now I think it's easier to differentiate your skills in the programming world (where your past designs/code speak for themselves) than in the sysadmin world (where everything is based on intangible effectiveness).
Are you drunk? (Score:3)
On the other hand, there are people who have to add accounts, give people new passwords when they forget them, fix hardware that doesn't work, fix software that stops working, add new software that people want, add hardware, get rid of security leaks, add features to binary-only programs through ugly and painful hacks (perl scripts to convert text to html comes to mind while doing things along a specific and varying layout), selecting and installing new hardware, switching people's computers on when "their monitors are broken", keeping NT out of the workplace as much as possible, etc.
I suspect that you're right about Ann Rand. Someone I know read Atlas shrugged, and after 20 pages it became a contest of wills to see if he could keep awake during it.
Don't forget the people who have to clean up after the sysadmins that you're talking about. Someone has to clean up after them, because the systems do work for some part of the time.
The OSI model? (Score:3)
Sysadmins Union! (Score:3)
Companies seeking to hire qualified sysadmins would look at the webpage for the union(like they'd have a physical location? Pshaw!), search by area code, phone number, or street address, and contact the closest 10 or 20 in the area...
However, the scary part is the power they could wield, in part and separately. If, for example, this union or guild of sysadmins wants to send a message about some state tax, or a bill to control immigration, or even how Clinton is handling international politics, they can hide many small messages, comments, and statements throughout a system, in fortunes, in sigs, in updates, etc.
Even worse, they could, if they decided to boycott for a day to bring city/state/national attention to a subject, they *could* shut down an entire industry, if only for an hour!
Call the local/state news agencies, give them a message like 'If we don't get a response in 10 days by , we are going to shut down/slow down for the period of
As an example, we might be able to get all the banks in a city or state to bear pressure or call attention to an environmental issue or two, or to get a bill passed, etc.
Of course this is very coarse, crude, and clumsy. I'm sure all the practice sysadmins reading
AS
Sysadmins Union! (Score:3)
But it has to go both ways. The current job market seems to incur no loyalty between workers and companies, what with regular layoffs, temp workers, and part time employees.
My original post shouldn't be taken too seriously exactly for problems like this...
Hmm, I guess the point I was meditating about is perhaps a 'company' or organization who's job is to qualify and provide quality professional sysadmins. Colleges are entities who provide CEs, EEs, CSes, MEs, chem Es, etc... I'm not sure such an organization exists for sysadmins. It's main purpose is not to wield power or abuse it.
AS
Good sysadmins are rare and usually underpaid (Score:4)
And these attitudes are prevalent throughout the industry. It seems to me that much of the problem with acceptance of this kind of blatant incompetence by management is partly because of all these certificate training programs run by businesses like Microsoft and Novell, instead of accepting the standards set forth by nonprofit industry groups like LISA and SAGE. Microsoft isn't in the business of teaching skills, they are in the business of collecting money for handing out certificates. And most businesses would prefer to hire the less skilled admin with a certificate because he/she is cheaper than a good admin with a track record and job history. This is partly because many managers don't have their engineering staff interview potential candidates before hiring; management often seems to express a policy of 'what does an engineer know about hiring someone and conducting an interview???' Well, DUH! 'What does a manager know about engineering??? And why does he/she think they know enough to determine a candidates core competence of the requisite skills for that position???' I figure if you work at a place like this you're better off just looking for another job.
Hell, good admins don't take PHB bullshit too well because they know the next job is a telephone call away. I happen to know I'm good at what I do and deserve every dollar I earn (more, really). But I'm willing to take a cut in pay in order to stretch my skills and learn something new. Where I work we have several hundred Linux, Solaris, and IRIX hosts in our machine room running compute intensive batch jobs for speech modeling, very similar to a Beowulf or GNU/QUEUE cluster (though the software was internally written). This is a useful and fun skill to learn, but working in scientific and software development fields certainly doesn't pay top dollar. Could I double my salary to six figures? Tomorrow. I need only say yes to one of the multiple cold calls I get every week (the six figure offers usually come from financial houses). Now, Would I? And take that shit???? No way!