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Music Media

New portable MP3 player from RCA 57

Posted by CmdrTaco from the future-of-tunes dept.
deicide wrote in to send us a link to MP3.com and this story about RCA's new MP3 Player. Its called 'Lyra', and it is nice looking, and while it only holds 32 megs, it accepts external storage of up to 340 megs.
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New portable MP3 player from RCA More

New portable MP3 player from RCA

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  • Let 'em rip (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    --The no-memory option is a good idea. But with compression algorithms getting better and better, why not make the processor upgradable and leave the memory size fixed?

    Oh, I forgot about planned obsolessence.

    What I want is an mp3 player for the palm-pilot. I've been looking for a reason to buy a palm pilot, and mp3 could be it.

  • Read the article please ! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They say it is using CompactFlash cards (probably type II since it can accept the IBM 340 Mo hard drive which is a type II CompactFlash)
  • I totally agree with RCA not including memory on this player.

    By not including memory the reduce the products pricing dependance on the volatile memory market. They can then bundle compact cards with the camera, small ones if the market is bad, big one if the memory market is good.

    Hey sounds like exactly what they do with digital cameras.

    Why is no one upset over Kodak not selling any memory built in to their camera's????


    I own a DC210 (horrible pictures) and would love to be able to use the expensive Compact Flash memory to store MP3's when I'm not in vacation mode.

    Sounds like this will be the perfect device for the legions of camera owners.

    Brainstorm: How hard would it be to make a Digital Camera that plays mp3 files???? Think about it, they do Jpeg compression on the fly, MP3 decompression should be a breeze. Wonder if the Jpeg compression hardware could also be used to make a Mpeg recorder??????



  • If you're interested in building your own mp3 stereo player, send a message with subject subscribe to mp3stereo@itchy.wdc.com [mailto].
  • You are right. The RCA brand is now owned by Thomson Multimedia of France.
  • So if I have an early-to-mid-80s television with an RCA logo on it, is it a "real" RCA or somebody else's?
  • RCA's fate is indeed a very sad tale. I worked in Indianapolis where the televisions were designed as a power supply designer. It was analog heaven. I treasure my experience there. General Electric bought RCA and cannibalized it. They sold the semiconductor division to Harris. They eventually sold the consumer electronics division to Thompson after laying a bunch of us off. They sold the Sanoff Labs in Princeton to SRI. All GE really wanted was NBC. Yessir, good ole Neutron Jack. He gets rid of people and keeps the buildings.

    There ain't no telling who really makes the stuff you see with GE or RCA brand labels on it. Hitachi used to make lots of RCA's stuff and Mitsubishi made lots of GE's stuff but lately I don't know who is private labeling their goods.

  • Compact Flash Type II cards are designed to work with PCMCIA Type II ports using an adapter. Just a half-step away from the mainstream, you can buy PCI cards that have one or two type II PCMCIA slots, enabling the dedicated (and flexible, since the ports are on the rear of your computer) geek to use these cards on a desktop pc. And if I recall correctly, this type of PCMCIA-docking station is available for USB from several vendors. (I'd be surprised if Belkin didn't make something of this sort.)

    IBM states that external docking hardware is available for IBM's compactflash memory [ibm.com], which presumably means serial or USB. If not, IBM offers an adapter to put the CF type II cards into a PCMCIA type II slot, as well as Sandisk. Then you can use one of the more commonly-available PCMCIA docking ports. More info is here [ibm.com] . jon (thoughts not in order because tie is too tight)
  • Here's the specific wish list: A portable cd player that runs on 2AA's, plays audio cds, and if you pop in a data cd it reads a playlist file in the root directory, or expands the directory tree on the cdrom and develops a playlist in memory.

    Sure, it defeats some of the advantages of a purely solid-state device, but I'd rather use the in-system memory+processor for playlists & playlist mods (imagine running a whole dj show from a portable), decoding modules, audio processing, etc etc.

    -jon
  • Check out these possibilities:

    Envoy Data PCD-30-USB Series PCD-CF30-USB (external USB-to-CFII adapter designed for general use) $199 http://www.envoydata.com/pccard.html#USB [envoydata.com]
    (These guys also make a bootable CFII--IDE port, which has some interesting possibilities for Linux on a CF card...)

    Compact Flash Photoreader USB CFPRUSB (CFII reader designed for cameras, USB) $107 http://www.alix.com/products.htm [alix.com]

    I have no experience with the software on either of these, so your mileage will vary when it comes to writing thru these devices.

    -jon
  • Even the first review of this product states that the plugins allow you to bypass the various music encryption/encoding schemes. How long will it be before the plugins are reverse-engineered and you can load an open-source module that allows you to play any format you please? Not long, I'll bet.

    And as for the cry of privacy invasion, this product bears no resemblance to the DIVX nightmare -- with DIVX, the device uses your phone to report your activities & preferences to a central controlling authority. It won't operate unless it's connected. With a Lyra-like device, you have to opt-in to a scheme like this (loading and using a decoding module that requires an online transaction with some authority), and there's less opportunity for any funny business (transaction recording that's unauthorized by you) because the device is physically disconnected (no built-in modem or network connection lying in wait).

    Personally, I like the hardware, and I especially like the idea that I will soon be able to use it with open-source software modules that put my privacy fears to rest.
  • The pilot doesn't have the CPU power for a MP3 player: not by a *long* way. No idea what the audio output circuitry is, but I'm pretty sure it's not 44.1khz stereo...

    Some WinCE boxes can manage it: they have bigger CPUs simply because WinCE isn't exactly lightweight :)

  • I don't understand how $200USD is a terrible pricepoint. If it is small enough, durable enough and low powered, people will be willing to pay.

    Anything over $100USD is out of reach of the vast majority of high-school kids.

    Now the RIO is a lousy sale. Expensive and very limited. The worst of both worlds. This thing has 1000% of the capacity and abilities for 200% of the price. I just hope the microdrive is low powered and durable...

    If this thing had an IR port to do mass data transfers with my computer (or other recorders), it would be a great alternative to floppies/zip/whatever. I don't think the recording industry would like people swapping music over IR too much though.

    I'm babbling again.

  • Watchoo talkin' about Willis? My PowerMac G3 already has an IBM copper chip in it. And it's about five months old. (good god this market is insane)
  • Why not do this:
    Build some sort of commonplace drive (I'm thinking ultra low power zip - cd probably won't work). Then at the same time sell an IR perhiperhal that passes data into the mpeg player via the drive. Think of the 'casette tapes' used to bridge cd walkmen and car stereos. Same deal. I like the Zip because they're pretty common, hold more than 1.5MB (floppies are pretty useless for mpegs at current compression ratios) and it's not so exotic that i'd never use it for anything else. I already have a zip. Added uses for the thing are a bonus. OTOH, I have little or no reason to get a Clik or something like that because they're quite rare.
  • There's a thread going on down below this about linking the RIO and the Lyra (a few others too) together and exchanging data. Having a portable *hard drive* would make this excessively simple. ;)

    --

  • External Storage (Score:3)

    by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @11:21AM (#1903007)
    Only two questions for the hardware geeks out there - can this new portable have it's memory upgraded, and if so - what's the type of memory it takes?

    Second question - how long until somebody creates an interface for exchanging data between mp3 players? I'd like to hook a Rio up to a Lyra (or whatever), and exchange data with it. Feasible?



    --
  • I payed $175.00 (US) for my
    first sony walkman. That was more than
    20 years ago, though.
  • in the article it stated that the lyra supports the IBM microdrive, is it shipping yet? how much is a 340mb card? wow, if it's under $75, i'm getting one of these. :))) 340 is good enough for me, ~5 hours? not bad :)

  • how long until somebody creates an interface for exchanging data between mp3 players? I'd like to hook a Rio up to a Lyra (or whatever), and exchange data with it.

    You think the RIAA is having fits now, wait until someone comes out with a device that can share MP3's. Most hardware MP3 player makers are going to extreme lengths to make sure what you describe isn't happening. the Empeg car player comes to mind. They explicitly state that you can't send data from the device, because they don't want to encourage piracy.

    Sure, you could probably homebrew a player that has upload capability, but don't expect to see it from a consumer electronics maker.

    I don't know about the RIO, but I'd imagine it's the same way.

  • With all of these new portable players, the first thing that comes into my mind is MP3s are dying.

    The RIAA must be absolutely fuming over this. Now that this data format has made the leap off of home computers, I think it'll be considerably harder to stop.

  • Darn, you mean that I have to put those silly little "SARCASM" tags around all of my posts?

    Yes. It's sarcastic. If I truly believed that, I would be a biger dope than I know I am.

  • There's a couple of MiniDisc cameras that play audio MDs. Have a look at;

    http://www.hip.atr.co.jp/~eaw/minidisc/md_data_t able.html

    A bit old now, and they don't appear to support USB, or anything useful, but it's a step...

    Kris.

    Win a Rio [cjb.net] (or join the SETI Club via same link)
  • Well, I meant actual MPGE-1 Layer 4, not the stupid MP4. But the same goes for it, ACC, Microsoft's audio code, RealAudio, etc.

  • Nah, other way around (Score:3)

    by Fizgig ( 16368 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @11:37AM (#1903015)
    The rate at which memory prices fall is going to be a LOT faster than the rate at which compression algorithms get better. MP4 will be at best twice as good at compressing music as MP3 (and you can only compress things so far before you have no information left), but portable storage prices are going to drop much more than that, especially with the portable MP3 players and digital cameras driving demand. AMD announced earlier that by next year they'll have Flash RAM at $1/MB and IBM has those itsy-bitsy hard-drives we all want. Adding more processing power isn't going to bring as much of an advantage as adding more storage.
  • Greetings,

    When I bought my Rio, people laughed, and said, 'Wait for real products, like Compact Flash cards, and hard drives, and CD-ROMs!'

    My response then was, 'Without a market, nobody serious is GOING to make a real product.'

    RCA is quoted here as saying that the Rio proved a market, and that's why they are going ahead and making it.

    I still listen to my Rio, but I'm very aware that it's technology is not what it could have been.

    You have to vote with your money in order to get the business world to wake up and listen, and I give major props to all who did.

    MP3 isn't just a pirate music format, and that's something that major corporations are recognizing now, BECAUSE of people who put their money where their hopes were.

    Huzzah to RCA, definitely, for making a real product, but just as many huzzahs to everyone who bought a Rio in order to help build a new market!

    Cyberfox!

    p.s. I have over 96MB of CompactFlash cards already, because I have a digital camera. The zero-memory issue is non-existent for me, as I'll just drop one of my 40MB CF card into it until I get a microdrive. I'll buy a Lyra as soon as it hits the shelves.

  • On cassette tapes?
  • Why not burn them to CD?!?! Is this too obvious of a suggestion? Or did I miss something?

  • Kinda intrseting (Score:3)

    by digitaldaniel ( 24033 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @11:29AM (#1903019) Homepage
    "From a product planning standpoint we had to
    we've looked out there to see what's going on withDiamond's player and others and it became clear to us that there were at least the beginnings of a market. As participants in audio hardware for the past 40-50 years, this is a read we didn't want to miss and one that we
    actually felt we could lead to a certain extent."

    It's intresting to note that its seem like many of the corporate decision makers are taking the leap of faith into this market. They, in some senses, are blindly following the "hype" more then prattical business research. I would hope this will lead to a large market of mp3 players, if only to reduce their cost.

    I for one like the idea of holding 340+ megs of mp3, especially because still its only an option, that you can still get more or less storage depending on how much $ your willing to spend.

    Choices are good.


  • Godo to hear that the "real RCA" doesn't exist anymore, that way they can't drive more people to suicide by stealing their patents.
  • I think he means recording the output of his sound card onto cassette tapes, and then playing them in a normal walkman.

    Mike
  • Was that supposed to be sarcastic? I couldn't really tell.

    Ian.
  • "Another potential security feature, says Arras, will be embedding each flash card with a key that allows song playback on only one particular Lyra."

    I don't know about this player.. I don't think I would pay $200 for 32megs of space even if it has a really cool interface.
  • MP4 will be at best twice as good at compressing music as MP3

    Maybe but it's not an Mpeg compression, they are naming it that so the public doesn't look at it too hard. It's another attempt at anti piracy, look into it you won't be able to compress your own CDs etc. etc. not at all worth it.
    _____________________________________________ ___________
    Can We trust the future - Flesh99
  • Out of curiosity, I sent an e-mail to IBM about the microdrives. Here is what I got back:

    We appreciate your interest in IBM's new microdrive technology. The 170/340 MB
    microdrive will be available during the second half of 1999. It is expected to
    cost between $300-$400.

    That makes this a $500-600 mp3 player...a little out of the reach of most college students by about $499-$599 :)

    Unless they can give me another reason to buy a microdrive (other than it's cool as hell) I think I'll have to stick with a Rio (not that I can afford that either)...

    Just my $.02

    Matt
  • Not only that, but there were two articles (one on the wire, one in this month's SciAmer [sorry, no urls]) that directly relates to this. IBM just put out copper chip manufacturing technology ahead of schedule, which means chips will be cheaper (at least to make) and more efficient than aluminum. Second, there are at least three consortiums working on magnetic RAM that will leave FlashRAM in the dust.
  • I have a blue and white G3 Mac and my only choice in data xfer is USB (unless there's a Firewire mp3 player that I've missed). However, USB is faster than standard serial, and half the Wintel computers here at work have USB ports, so it's not as if there isn't infrastructure in place to use a USB-equipped MP3 player.

    Nothing else, just venting.
  • I'd consider the $200 price acceptable if there's a reasonably convenient way to get the MP3 files from my computer to the microdrive and the microdrive holds up well under normal usage conditions (no skipping & 5+ years life expectancy). I like the IR port idea; what MP3 players need is a decent capacity and a convenient way to get a new playlist into the gadget. An IR port or onboard Zip/microdrive/whatever would solve the latter problem -- the IR port is cheaper and lighter, whereas an onboard drive would make it easier to swap in a new playlist on the road.
  • This is the same reason I bought the Rio as well but I too will buy a different MP3 player as soon as I can since the Rio just isn't quite ready for prime time [abnormal.com] yet. The case is the worst design I have seen in portable electronics because they missed the bit about having a solid case. For what its worth, my rio's battery cover broke (at a pub while letting a band hear how their tunes sound on the net). Even though the rio is somewhat of a disappointment, it is in many ways one of the coolest toys I've got and I think that it is important to buy new types of toys to help promote development of risky things like these.
  • $200 is way too high for the average high school student. I'm 15 and there is no way I'm willing to shell out $200+ for an MP3 player. If I want a song to be portable, I'll just burn it on a CD and put it in the CD player. I'd buy a MP3 player when the price drops below a $100 and at least enough room for 20 songs.

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