Dan Gillmor on Slashdot 64
Normally I reserve stories about Slashdot to the quickies
bin, but this article is getting submitted so many times that
if I don't post it, I'll spend the rest of the day deleting
it from the submissions box. Bill Longabaugh
wrote in to send us a piece by Dan Gillmor over at the
San Jose Mercury News about Slashdot.
It's a nice little 'Slashdot as a weblog' piece apparently
designed to stroke my ego. Update: 05/25 03:42 by CT : I've begun rewriting
the Moderator Guidelines,
so if you're interested, please check them out and submit comments
(or diffs :)
Re:Stuff that matters. -- Poll idea please (Score:1)
Is Slashdot journalism?
-B
Weblog? (Score:3)
Re:Truth or Fiction (Score:3)
I met him about three years ago during a open house at the ISP where I worked. Another tech support slave recognized him and drug me over to meet the guy. I respect Peter (my fellow former slave) a lot. If he was impressed then I was prepared to be impressed too.
I was. Since then I have kept an eye on his writing. He is generally right on.
The
A good hook (Before I mentioned the site's name, another person at the table said, correctly...)
A clear introduction that gives perspective (Most people will have little reason to stop by Slashdot... For the people who care, though, it's a must-visit place)
Then the content.
He is good at picking out the gems. Mentioning the online bandwidth article, which I thought was one of the most interesting recent posts. And he explained how the
Even his analysis was fair and even handed.
I have a low (accurate?) opinion of reporters. I tend to lump them in with politicians, lawyers, and teachers. People who choose to observe and comment rather than living life for themselves.
Gillmor is one of the exceptions.
Dan mailto:dan@happynet.com Wright
PS I'm not an Anonymous Coward, I'm a Lazy Luser. I even have a
Re:A few comments (Score:5)
I really think that in a way, Rob is a kind of visionary, because sites like Slashdot and Everything [blockstackers.com] are among the first to really use the web _as_ the web, taking full(?) advantage of its capabilities, and not simply as a kind of magazine printed with electrons. Hence the buzz.
Re:A few comments (Score:5)
How about a "User Opinion" section (where average joes could submit *their* long-winded, self-sevring articles? :)
Re:A few comments (Score:3)
Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
Ouch. As someone who cut his teeth on the smallest daily newspaper in upstate New York (circulation 4,000), I can safely say that reporters in small towns do even more reporting than their big-city counterparts. I remember one fateful day of sitting in on a town meeting, two school board meetings and a kindergarten graduation. Then I went to a fire in another county at 11 p.m. and didn't get back until 4 a.m.
You're right about the AP, though. The wires are extremely convenient, especially for small to mid-size papers, and even my own Web site. But I wish there were alternatives. The Online Journalism Review [ojr.org] has a good story on AP wire useage this week.
Learning to take compliments (Score:5)
I thought Dan's article was a good one. As a tech media type, I lurk on Slashdot often, because Rob and Hemos do a good job of getting a whole bunch of relevant info in one place. And the comments are good too, because you guys can smell BS a mile away, and it helps me sniff it out, too.
Is Slashdot journalism? Depends on how you define it. But I do think it hearkens back to the first days of publishing, before corporations took over -- when anyone with access to a printing press could change the way people thought about the issues in their lives. The founding fathers wrote the First Amendment for sites like this one.
And Rob...it was a nice column. Smile, take the compliment, and move on!
Re: Essay Pool (Score:2)
Gracious Acceptance (Score:1)
Public statements of modesty have so gotten out of hand that now, unfortunately, they almost always ring false. Enjoy the well-deserved complement and give one to someone else.
also /. is bottom up (Score:1)
Remember to say 'thanks' (Score:2)
People like to praise what they find enjoyable. They should not be punished for doing so.
Re:/. Addiction (Score:4)
Hi, Logan.
I first started reading slashdot about 18 months ago. I was first pointed to it by a friend of mine who said he read it almost every day. I thought it was too nerdy for me at first, but i read it about once a week. Eventually I discovered the conversations, and became an avid reader. It wasn't long until I was posting AC posts on an almost daily basis. When Rob began making the moderation and preference changes to slashdot, i decided it was time to create an account. Now, I access slashdot a dozen times a day from work, despite the lack of images. Slashdot is the first web page I check in the morning, and the last one i read at night. I get 90% of my news from slashdot. My coworkers and I talk about the articles over lunch. I am truly a slashdot addict, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Re:(off topic) Re:Separate section for /.org news? (Score:2)
Navels are the point where the lifeblood to a new entity is sourced. So I guess this term would come from the fact that some navels never have the fuzz cleaned out of them. Or more concisely, that it would be a topic that is raw, inclomplete, and kind of undeveloped. On the other hand, why would shiny rings adorning the navel be attractive?
Oh hell, I don't know. Someone help me attempt to understand this term. Perhaps navel gazing is a cliche. A passing fad, but with tshirts and summertime, maybe not.
Re:Weblog? (Score:2)
Here [attaway.org] is a web log.
Here [attaway.org] is a web page.
Who coined the term "weblog" and why? What does it log?
Re:Stuff that matters. (Score:1)
> Monolithic media conglomerates such as the
> NYTimes and The Mercury News don't see it as
> such, but this is the same reason why they just
> don't ring true in my ears, they've sold their
> journalistic souls to the sponsors, big-wigs,
> and advertisers.
To be fair, I think Slashdot has sold it's soul to advertisers as well, just to the advertisers Rob believes in. Just check out the redirects from adfu.blockstackers.com. (hit adfu.blockstackers.com/redir.pl?XXX where XXX is an integer between 1 and 300 or so) You'll see a whole lot of linux websites, distributers of open source software, etc. So, Slashdot's soul is sold. We just like the buyers...
Re:Stuff that matters. (Score:1)
Isn't it interesting that the above reply was rated higher than my original comment? If my comment was worth a weight of 1, then how could a rebuttal be worth a weight of 3?
Anyway, to reply... (even though it won't be read)
Demographics are one, perfectly valid explaination for the advertisements we see on adfu. However, what _if_ M$ tried to put 300 ads on Slashdot? (Making 50% of the ads theirs.) Would Rob sell them the space? If the answer is "yes" then Slashdot hasn't sold it's soul. If "no" then it has.
Don't get me wrong. Slashdot should be biased towards what advertisers it takes. After all, somebody has to decide what the "stuff that matters" is. It has an ideology to present just like (most) everybody else. Let's just not deny it.
It's already available -- sort of (Score:2)
People have submitted essays to The Taco In Charge and if he thinks they are good enough, he will post them on the main page.
I suppose what you are looking for is a way to post essays that will get posted somewhere (like a new slashbox) with no editorial judgement to initial suitability. It could be useful, but it would need moderation as to how well it was written, as well as moderation of the comments.
Re:Stuff that matters. (Score:2)
The fact that ads are displayed does not mean
Re:Separate section for /.org news? (Score:1)
There is an option in "Preferences" to never see the slashdot.org department. Now you just have to get Rob and his army of trained mammals to stick to that department for news about /.
Navel-Gazing (Score: 1, Offtopic AND Informative) (Score:2)
No hints necessary, though I am a "Latin". I have an M.A. and M.Div., church history and spirituality.
"Navel-gazing" comes from the controversy over the "physical technique" of hesychasm. It is to be prayer of the heart and of the mind, and to that end, Ps.-Symeon recommends sitting with chin on chest and with eyes fixed on the navel. Others suggest that the inner or outer "gaze" be focused on the heart.
Tweaking Moderator Guidelines (Score:2)
I read /. for 2 days with threshhold set at -1, and I must say that the moderators are doing an excellent job.
I find the editorial comments (reasons for moderating a post up or down) annoying and distracting. If the powers that be want moderators to think before changing a post's point value, OK, but I would prefer that the moderator's stated reason not be part of the display to other readers.
I also notice that you don't say explicitly in the new guidelines which kinds of posts deserve a 3, 4, or 5. Oops. Even general examples would help. What distinguishes a "4" from a "3"?
Re:A few comments (Score:1)
I don't necessarily agree with this method of doing things and would prefer a method that worked similar to the way comments currently do. Maybe start each essay at a ranking of -5 or so and allow the moderators the ability to move this up until at 0 it would be visible to the 'average' /. reader (maybe have separate thresholds for comments and essays). Also, essays should probably have their own category so that just as I can filter out all Star Wars Prequel articles, essays in general could also be filtered out.
Still, I think that all readers should be able to see all essays if they are willing to spend the time and set their threshold low enough for a couple of reasons. First, now that the moderators are drawn from nearly the entire reader pool, the difference between readers and moderators is not so great that it would justify limiting access to most essays. Second, by allowing all users access to all essays, the possibility of censorship, no matter how remote, is entirely removed from the realm of possibility.
Anyway, that's my viewpoint; you're free to disagree.
Woo Hoo! Good Article... (Score:1)
Re:(off topic) Re:Separate section for /.org news? (Score:1)
Re:How about a linx page.. (Score:1)
Slashdot Slashdotted? (Score:2)
Re:A few comments (Score:3)
We could even have a 'response' section from Rob an Co. just like they do in the "real" opinion sections...
A talk show done the right way (Score:1)
Ever see "Silicon Spin" on ZDTV? That is probably the closest thing television has to slashdot. The experience of watching silicon spin is nothing like slashdot, though. The show, hosted by John Dvorak (who is a pretty good moderator and fairly levelheaded guy) has only a half hour in any given "episode" to tackle 3 or 4 issues, with a panel of himself and four others.
When watching it, it always becomes obvious that they don't have nearly enough time to talk about anything. Often, the discussion just starts to get good when time is up and its off to a commercial break. After the break, off to the next topic.
Other problems - often the "pundits" selected for the show have no clue about some of the topics brought up, but steal the spotlight anyway telling exactly what they think about it. It is a maddening experience for the viewer, especially if he knows much more about the topic than anyone on the show and is just dying to set them straight.
If you wanted to stay on top of "hi tech issues" by watching that show, you would fail. It just isn't informative. Sometimes I see it after participating in a slashdot discussion about the same topics (once it was the Columbine shooting here in Littleton) and have to cringe because the people on silicon spin are just so stupid by comparison.
Of course, this is by no means limited to silicon spin - it is tv and radio in general. I picked silicon spin because it strikes me as an attempt to present slashdot-like debates on a comparably inferior medium. Slashdot rocks because nobody ever has had to sit and watch the discussion thinking "NO! NO!!!! That isn't it at all! DAMMIT I WISH I COULD SET THEM STRAIGHT"
And if you word your view well enough and don't sink to flaming etc, it is likely that many people will see your post and put up their reply.
Re:How about a linx page.. (Score:1)
Quickies (Score:3)
Why not gather all quickies, as done with the Ask Slashdot, under a special menu, so that they are viewable all together? And add a config-item to disable all quickies (If you just want to read larger stories)? Oh, that last is allready possible... Sorry.
Not just an addicition... (Score:1)
With so many submissions and and articles posted each day it's a wonder I get to read as many as I do. Maybe it's due to the fact that I put off work to submit. If only my boss knew.
----
"War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left"
The way comments work / moderation (Score:3)
Other websites have comments, but they quite often get filtered through an editor first. Slashdot's anonymous posting (as much as it can be annoying) and moderation have been very helpful in promoting real discussion (the latter especially)
Perfect time for segue into moderation FAQ discussion:
No mention of maintaining anonymity when you're a moderator, unless I missed that part. Does that mean that this requirement is now waived (which would make sense now that you're a moderator until you spend your 5 points)?
Re:/. Addiction (Score:1)
Re:A few comments (Score:3)
Again, the AP is relevant here as well -- most of the news in the local paper, especially the 'front page' is pulled from the AP, and the local reporters do little. Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
My Comments:
This is a valid point. I don't think journalism can be defined by the production of content. While the production of content (writing) constitutes one mode of journalism, the reproduction of content (as in the wire services) is another. The Utne Reader [utnereader.com] is a good example of reproducing content from numerous sources and making it available in one forum.
I would argue that journalism is better defined by the content itself, i.e. current events, news, human interest, etc., rather than who produced it.
However, it would be nice to see more 'original content' on Slashdot though, if only to avoid giving Jon Katz a monopoly.
The possibilities are endless. With the
Sean Brown
Sean Brown
Linux Evangelist
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." - Bob D.
accountability (Score:3)
more about: I've heard Slashdot called a form of journalism, which seems a bit of a stretch apart from its homegrown essays. But I'm not willing to say it isn't journalism, either.
A few points:
Solution to /. Addiction (Score:2)
Re:........it's the comments!! (Score:2)
Apart from that, it's also a great way to waste time at work
/. Addiction (Score:4)
Almost ? I thought I controlled my
I don't think so. (Score:5)
Now please don't think I am trying to put Slashdot down in any way. But I don't think it's journalism in the true sense of the word. It still depends about 99% on the work of others. Reporters do most of their own work.
-----BEGIN ANNOYING SIG BLOCK-----
Evan
Eew-mee-lee-tee (Score:1)
Hey Rob, you seem to do a pretty good job of stroking your own ego with "piece"es like this. And not everyone that mentions
Sheesh. (Sorry Rob, love
Suggestion: Create a new "Back-patting" icon to put stories like this under, so I can filter properly.
(off topic) Re:Separate section for /.org news? (Score:1)
I know that the answer seems obvious by the word, looking at your navel - self introspection - but where did that originate?
Hint: You'll have to think in an Orthodox way . . .
Re:Navel-Gazing (Score: 1, Offtopic AND Informativ (Score:1)
Definately the most correct and complete answer.
BTW M.A. in Bible here. (However, I just finished a year of Church History post M.A. because I like it).
P.S. Sorry it took this long to reply, but I do not check my user preferences often and did not realize that several people replied.
P.S.S Not personally "Orthodox" -- "Fundamental, Protestant, Bible believing, Independant . .
P.S.S.S If you'd like to chat, my email is (remove the spam blocker-SPAM YUCK) mSoPverAstr@MbjuY.eUdCuK.
Re:/. Addiction (Score:1)
You bet!! I knew i was a slashdot addict when i found it was taking 60% of all the time i was spending in front of a computer (which, of course, was 60% of my entire day: including the time spent in sleeping)
But now that I'm back in India for a while, I've confirmed this status, by checking slashdot out once every hour... with a speed that's sometimes 5 bytes/sec, and rarely more than 1.2 Kbytes/sec... plus the dozens of slashboxes... it's still very worth the wait!!!
and no, I'm not willing to go in for a "light" version.... the slashboxes count!!
amit
Truth or Fiction (Score:2)
Well, this is certainly a welcome sentiment. Awareness in the mass media that not everything they throw at the public is bought, that people are becoming aware of the inaccuracies of what they hear, read, and see.
hmm, either that, or he's blowing smoke up our ass
Re:A few comments (Score:2)
If it took, say, 3 opinion points to submit a piece, and 10 opinion votes to 'push' it to the front page, that should be enough to prevent abuse, and by not sucking the mod points directly wouldn't harm the current system, IMHO.
Re:Weblog? (Score:3)
Seriously, there are several factors can make a post go higher. In this case, I imagine it is because this is a common question/complaint: the term weblog has a meaning that is entirely separate from what it is being used for here. The mods are giving a 'me too' sort of vote here because it is recognized as an on-topic, serious question.
As for what a 'weblog' is 'logging'... for some sites it is a log of places visited, when the weblog is a reflection of the 'web journey' of one person (or a small group). I know some people that would call the 'history' feature of their browser a 'log' in this same manner.
It is still a rather bad name, I think. I would prefer weblog to maintain its older meaning and a new term for places like
A few comments (Score:5)
Some impressions:
For the people who care, though, it's a must-visit place, almost addictive in its drawing power. And in the process Slashdot has become an archetype of the Internet-led communication revolution.
This is an important point, but doesn't go far enough. Slashdot is constantly improving, especially with the feedback from users. It feels more like Usenet (Usenet of about five years ago -- today's Usenet is much noiser, but that's another topic...) than a 'weblog,' 'portal,' or whatever neologism is being hyped.
[Weblogs] are the model of convenience: digests that take you directly to the original, expanded material if you care to learn more.
I often get "look at this" emails where friends of mine try to keep me informed on interesting things. Sadly, most of them tend to be of the urban legends I heard of three years ago, and/or even older 'joke lists'. The only ones that catch my attention are articles culled from one weblog or another, and usually I've already seen them here on Slashdot or Memepool, etc.
Reporting in newspapers today is usually not much more than copying things from the Associated Press (AP). As such, the dozen or so newspapers I could look at in a day are generally useless, as 90 percent of the info in one is duplicated in another. Weblogs are the closest thing to the AP the web has, but because there is no one standard yet it is still worthwhile to visit many sites, especially when they focus on one area or genre.
readers can set up the forums to show the most relevant -- or, if they prefer, the newest or oldest -- comments first.
Half the fun is configuring Slashdot to our will. We're a bunch of feature junkies.
I've heard Slashdot called a form of journalism, which seems a bit of a stretch apart from its homegrown essays. But I'm not willing to say it isn't journalism, either.
Again, the AP is relevant here as well -- most of the news in the local paper, especially the 'front page' is pulled from the AP, and the local reporters do little. Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
However, it would be nice to see more 'original content' on Slashdot though, if only to avoid giving Jon Katz a monopoly.
/. - we're the / in . (Score:3)
The first time I found
Power to the people. Reporting to the people. Moderating to the people. Flames to the people. Adminning to the admin.
Very few stories fall through the cracks and if I think they do...I submit them. Some places this model could go would be stuff like giving free cd's or software to submitters (replacing reporters). It isn't needed here, but building a following (bootstrapping for this type of site) is the more difficult step, you need consistent content and if it comes from surfers you have to give them a reason. You give them a good reason and you have next years hottest IPO. The community feel is also a big part, but I think if there was, say, a
I've called this type of site Nanomedia resoning that one) it is really small when compared to mass media, two) it's usually operated my one, two, or ten people (one-billionth the pop. of the planet), and three) it sounds cool and we're moving into the nano- age anyway.
12.5% of a quarter for you, mine that is
Better than journalism (Score:5)
1) They allow relatively unfiltered feedback from the readers (vs. a few select letters that make it to the OpEd section of the newspaper).
2) There is no pretense that slashdot is unbiased. To me, this is preferable to supposedly unbiased journalism that subtlely reflects the journalist's own opinions. Selective reporting and coloring of facts is more insidious than simply saying, "Hey, we like *BSD and Linux around here."
3) Generally, the people delivering and commenting on the information know what they are talking about. In the slashdot forum, disinformation and marketing BS are usually caught quickly. More than once, slashdot posters have pointed out inaccurate and misleading info that most journalists would miss (*cough* *Mindcraft* *cough*).
Yes, there is a fair amount of noise, flamage, and immaturity. That comes with having an open forum. I'll take that over polished, edited, and filtered slickness any day. Heck, I read those -1 posts.
A "weblog" is a talk show gone online. (Score:5)
But for nerds, it is much better than a talk show. Not only is the initial presentation of the topic far more developed (the story or site being linked to), but the audience participation is far FAR more involved. And the subject matter is more intelligent. But let's face it, the 'audience participation' is what makes Slashdot so interesting to many of us.
Stuff that matters. (Score:3)
I'm glad there is at least one voice on the net, that actually talks about 'stuff that matters.'
John
Re:Stuff that matters. (Score:3)
That's called demographics. Do you suppose Microsoft is beating down Rob's door to advertise on this site? Companies spend their advertising money in ways that are designed to reach as much of their targeted audience as possible. I suppose that once all the Linux-related companies realized that
Like it or not, websites need to be paid for in some way, and advertising is the dominant model. If you can point me to any evidence that the content of
I, for one, appreciate visiting a website where the advertising is actually directed to me, and I've actually been know to click a banner or two.
........it's the comments!! (Score:3)
Separate section for /.org news? (Score:2)
A Historical Precedent (Score:2)
Popularity of a forum like
ellbee