Chinese Government Implicated in DoS on US Site 252
HP LoveJet writes "US maintainers of sites dedicated to falun gong, a meditation technique whose practitioners are being systematically harassed by Chinese government authorities, say that recent attacks on their servers are traceable to--guess who?--the Chinese government. Scary stuff. "
Who Cares anyway? (Score:1)
I suppose not (Score:1)
I think you can figure out how to email me
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
there were many successful and popular leaders in the United States who were "uneducated".
and, yes, i would hire a high school student to a big company if he/she were qualified.
Re:Stupid Governments (Score:1)
i tend to agree... (Score:1)
they've gotten away with so much so far... (Score:1)
maybe they've realized that America will do nothing to them as long as we buy their sh*t.
it's probably not. (Score:1)
Quite possibly the Chinese (Score:1)
Not only are they down, it seems that their name servers at netdirect.net are down, and thus netdirect.net site itself, and every domain they serve is out.
I noticed this a few hours ago, and they are not back up yet.
Coincidence?
Re:Different Civilizations With Different Standard (Score:1)
Heck, it's absolutely WRONG for a country to oppress its own citizenry in such a manner, but there is little we can do about it without overt or covert conflict. There is a real and deep disagreement, which we would do well to recognize and not paper over with talk of "constructive engagement." But moral indignation alone won't make anything better.
I'm not saying that any group of political elites is necessarily more kind-hearted than the other. We have our fair share of skeletons in our closets. Just that in diverse societies today, all but the most ruthless of politicians have to accept some degree of diversity as a fact of life.
Engage brain, consider source. (Score:1)
1. The article is in the Boston Globe, whose reputation is impeachable. Recall that a few of their star columnists and reporters were passing off fiction as fact.
2. The article relies on falun gong for the "facts" about these atacks originating from the Chineese government.
Consider the possibility that the Falun Gong are playing on anti-Chineese sentiment in the US in their efforts against the Chineese government.
Re:What about US warcrimes throughout the world? (Score:1)
First off, we need to put something in proper perspective. Up until this century, genocide was a regular and accepted part of war. I don't care what part of the world your forefathers hail from, EVERY race embraced genocide. The only way to ensure victory was to kill your enemy...and his children. I'm not saying it's ok, but singling one group out for that type of warfare is unfair. History is a bloody, violent thing. What isn't acceptable is that type of behavior today. We know better now...
Oh, and my wife is Northern Sioux (Osage). My children are half Osage. I can assure you that the beliefs, legends, and society built up by her ancestors was never destroyed. Badly damaged, yes. But never destroyed.
This is a twisted, politically correct view on history. 95% of the slaves imported into North America were brought in while we were still a British colony. The importing of slaves was banned shortly after we threw the Brit's out. Now, it's true that slavery lived on for a long time, but it was tolerated simply to keep the nation from breaking up. My own ancestors, who hailed from Maine, fought with the Mass. regiments in the civil war. My own ancestors put their lives on the line to free those slaves. Condemning all of America for slavery simply shows your ignorance of American history.
Once more, you're displaying a serious lack of historical knowledge. Texas declared it's independence from Mexico, and fought hard for that independence. A short time later, the free and independent Republic of Texas petitioned the United States to accept it into the union. Mexico believed the US was behind the secession of Texas, and took a generally hostile stance to anything American. This led to the Mexican-American war. When we won that war, the Mexicans surrendered much of the now-Southwestern US to American control. They started it...but we won. You want me to be ashamed of that? I don't think so.
Ok, were sorta guilty of this one, but at least put it in the proper perspctive. We wanted to build the canal, but the Columbians wanted too much money for the right of way. So we found a sympathetic bunch of Panamanian seccessionists and...umm...armed them. We didn't take it, we just aided a revolution. And how are we "scheming" to keep it? AFAIK, we're getting ready to hand it over to the Panamanian government.
Re:On the other hand.... (Score:1)
To expand a little on the "Free tibet" theory, the notion is that enemies of teh Chinese state spoof a Chinese assault on American property. All the Vladmir Zhirinovsky-esque republican nationalists go ballistic and China is severed from our good graces forever (or at least until WWIII).
-konstant
Re:More likely (Score:3)
* Organized illicit campaign contributions traceable w/ very high probability to PRC military intelligence.
* US-built machine tools redirected to (military-related production) sites that they *specifically denied in advance* would be the recipients.
* Mass import of arms, such as illegal shipments of SKS rifles traced to PRC arms companies with very close ties to Beijing.
* Deliberate violations of US nat'l security through leakage of information regarding rocket launches, through Hughes (and, IIRC, maybe Lockheed).
* Theft of nuclear secrets, through suborning of PRC sympathizers with access to classified data.
* Repeated harrassment, threats and refusal to recognize reality regarding Taiwan/ROC.
And... we're trying to be all buddy-buddy to them, partly out of alleged guilt for nailing their Embassy. Frankly, I'd rather bail out our ex-foes based in Moscow, and ostracize Beijing. But no... This is a nation which has repeatedly voiced the threat that it could hit LA with a nuclear-armed ICBM. It is *not* like this Gov't will stand up to them.
Likely true (Score:3)
Considering that this is happening at the same time as mass arrests, a warrent for the group's leader, and confiscation of literature, it's not too surprising that the party would want the web sites torn down as well.
The Chinese government considers this group to be the biggest threat to it's rule ever.
Their level of paranoia is so high for 3 reasons: 1. the group has 10 million more members than the communist party. 2. Since it is based on traditional Chinese ideas, it cannot denounce it as western contamination. 3. The last two dynasties in China fell shortly after the formation of similar groups.
It doesn't matter if point 3 is superstition or not. The communist party knows that many people will believe that the group's existance means they will soon fall.
Desperation makes people do stupid things.
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
That means pre-emptively cracking down on all perceived threats. Any organization that can mobilize that number, and is led by an independent who apparently has some degree of charisma, matches that description.
Re:1984? (Score:1)
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
that was an empire, not a big company.
Re:Different Civilizations With Different Standard (Score:1)
Nowadays, though, it seems as though I am in the minority in America, as well as the West in general. We continue to, as you said, paper over these differences in the name of commerce. After all, a market of 1 billion chinese consumers makes it very difficult for the moral concerns to outweigh the economic ones. Hell, we'll sell ourselves down the river in the name of a quick buck, let alone the average chinese citizen.
Maybe I'm getting more cynical as I get older, but it seems clearer and clearer to me that Kruschchev was right when he noted that when it came time to hang the West, a Western businessman would sell him the rope.
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Phil Fraering "Humans. Go Fig." - Rita
Re:Most Favored Nation can do no wrong. (Score:1)
...and in any event our government conducts espionage all over the world, even possibly in the US (eschelon), makes military threats towards everyone, and supports large US corporations such as Nike and Disney whom manufacture overseas often through the use of near slave labor practices which most certainly violate a persons human rights. I also do recall a few times when federal and state government agencies incited bloody masacres on US soil (Waco TX, Ruby Ridge).
gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Call it "troll" if you want, just another neat name for censorship. Every organization in history has a name for people that are censored (see "terrorist", "deviant", etc...)
And if the Romans had managed to crush Christianity, we'd probably have never gotten the idea that fusion reactors were possible. The Christians in the so-called "Dark" ages worked a lot harder on replacing manpower with machinepower (windmills and watermills) than the Romans did, because the Romans had gotten addicted to slavery.
Copernic, Galileo, Darwin, etc... science has always been the victim of religion.
Surprised? (Score:1)
Dan
What about Janet Reno? (Score:2)
An interesting note.. (Score:2)
Apparently they're trying to syn-flood the two sites; one attack failed, the other didn't..
Guess which site is running Windows?
I'm not an expert on this, but isn't it possible to syn-flood with a spoofed IP address? Just to play devil's advocate, this wouldn't necessarily mean that it's the Chinese doing this, am I right?
More likely (Score:1)
-konstant
Re:What about Janet Reno? (Score:2)
I don't like everything the U.S. government has done and is doing, either, but there's a world of difference between a democracy and a dictatorship.
Kythe
(Remove "x"'s from
Re:Different Civilizations With Different Standard (Score:3)
Accepting differences is just a matter of acknowledging a reality one could do little about.
and:
While I personally believe that the future belongs to diversity and multicultural cooperation, I also see that the Chinese don't necessarily agree. As long as they stay in their corner and don't mess with any of us, it doesn't have to get ugly.
The problem I have is that you have essentially denied the universality of human rights. We believe that tolerance of others is okay for us, but because the Chinese have a different culture, they don't really have to tolerate differences--in fact, they are totally within their rights to crush these people, or any other domestic group or individual, on a whim.
As soon as we allow that a different cultural background is an an acceptable reason for a government to harass, imprison, torture, and murder its citizens, well, then we basically set sail off into a sea of moral relativism wherein NOTHING is ever really bad or wrong.
Don't get me wrong--we can and should try to understand and appreciate cultural differences. But, there is a difference between understanding something and accepting that thing. We should not accept this notion that somehow human rights are this peculiar thing that can only be enjoyed by westerners.
I don't accept that the Chinese government's actions are somehow okay because they're, y'know, CHINESE. It is enlightening to see how crappy this argument is (it was gospel for my anthro. profs, BTW) when you use the same logic to try to suggest that lynchings by the Klan are really okay, because, after all, they're an inevitable part of the culture of the Southern/Midwestern United States, and that we should all learn to understand, appreciate, and accept them.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
Kythe
(Remove "x"'s from
On the other hand.... (Score:2)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Re:An interesting note.. (Score:1)
In addition, someone tried to gain access to the server, pretending to be a legitimate webmaster, and in the process left an Internet address, he said.
The DoS attacks were not the ones leaving the IP-address
Whether or not they were stupid enough to use one of their own machines to just try to log in, remains to be seen.
--
Re:How do China's proxies work? (Score:1)
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Gawd, all these propaganda mouthpieces for the dictatorship, and me without my moderator access.
Personally, I suspect that if you don't understand why freedom of religion is important, you won't really understand how to put together a democracy that doesn't collapse into dictatorship like a three dollar suitcase the way Weimar Germany collapsed into Nazi Germany, or even what a real democracy is...
Why should we believe all these statements about Falun Gong from people who apparently want expanded government authority to deal with religions they don't like?
Phil Fraering "Humans. Go Fig." - Rita
Re:US Govt pays 4 million to ease tensions (Score:2)
Tell that to an insurance company.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
> man with high school education. He now lives in
> a spacious estate in (I believe) New Jersey.
Shouldn't the chinese government ban Microsoft software, then?
> The man claims he needs no medication and
> suffers no ailments.
Again, some guy too stupid to take a penecillan shot sounds less-than-threatening. How does this have anything to do with China's welfare? We have Christian Scientists in the U.S. who fail to take medicine, and with the exception of child endangerment no one cares.
> He claimed Earth is in a volatile state and
> might explode in 1997 or 98. He now says he can
> delay the end of world for as long as 30 years.
So...he's an idiot claiming to have super powers. Big deal.
> His methods of meditation can lift a
> practitioner above water. Yet, when his
> followers surrounded ZhongNanHai (where Chinese
> leaders live) they failed to surround the fourth
> side -- a lake.
There's a yogi meditation college is southeastern Iowa that claims to be able to levitate. Not many people believe them, but with the possible exception of Janet Reno no one wants to ban the group for being a national security threat.
I find it interesting that you would support democracy in China, but fail to support the rights of this (by your descriptions) harmless group to practice its nonsense in peace.
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Freedom of religion is one thing, but there is a line between religion and political weapons, and Falun Gong is walking on this thin line. Sure you are free to be Christian, but not to burn heretics. They should be free to do their gymnastics, but when they try to gain political power, infiltrate governement agencies and manipulate foreign press, they are a real threats. The Chinese governement is definitely a dictatorship, but Falun Gong will be even worse if they succeed in taking over the country (don't be fooled, they are not just a bunch of peaceful Asian hippies, like every sect they have a "higher" goal decided by the guru).
My take is that if the roman had succeded in crushing the Christian sect at its beginning, we would already have fusion reactors by now, skipping 1000 years of middle age, inquisition and relious zealotry.
I'm not surprised. (Score:1)
Re:More like philosophies? (Score:1)
HMMM... I've never heard any Christians "make such a big fuss about Buddhism, Taoism, etc."
Have you been watching Falwell again Mr. Coward?
I never said they were (Score:1)
I never said they were. You are halfway correct - they were journalists.
And no matter who the money is given to, you cannot buy a life.
I think you can figure out how to email me
Re:Conceding on Tibet, Taiwan? Not Trivial... (Score:2)
On Taiwan, I suspect that their reasons for asserting that the island is a part of the PRC (and how Taiwan asserts that China is a part of Taiwan) is mostly a matter of face. IMHO, the Taiwanese are beginning to get a popular democratic government with leaders who don't care, and people who don't care. Thus the recent move to assert Taiwanese sovereignity at the expense of losing their claim to mainland China. Taiwan is doing well enough without China these days anyway. 'Course, Red China's leaders have acted pretty weird in the past, so I don't see why they'd think that policies regarding Taiwan would carry over to Tibet all of the sudden.
Tibet, it seems to me, would have been better handled by using it as a buffer state, much as the Soviet Union did with most of eastern Europe. Defend their borders for them, but maintain that it's an independent country, and let them act independently so long as it doesn't damage the buffer policy. This would not be perfect, obviously, but the Chinese have really mucked up the situation. The money they spend on oppressing the Tibetians (not all of whom are unhappy) could be better spent, from China's POV on a ballistic missile submarine program, making their need for Tibetian launch sites irrelevant and strengthening their military globally.
But boy am I glad that China's navy is as lousy as it is.
Re:Conceding on Tibet, Taiwan? Not Trivial... (Score:1)
You have absolutely no clue about arian local depolmatic. Why would Pakinstan invade the territory. Where do you think Pakinsten got their atimic bomb? The reason China buddy up Pakinstan is because they know Pakinstan has as much love to India as Iran to Iraq. Giving Pakinstan enough power will balance the southern Aria nicely for China. As for Tibet, the Chinese (Han if you prefer) military are already SIT on Tibet, they practically make military research centers in there. What make you think the army can't crash any rebellion? Tibetian can't rebel even if Guang Dong declare indepedent (I would like that), let alone Taiwan. CY CY
us gov't sucks too (Score:1)
i was just being specific.
No (Score:1)
I think you can figure out how to email me
Re:1984? (Score:1)
Now come let Big Brother brain wash err help you set asside your fears... yes thats it.. come to the ministry of truth and we'll help you... yes we will...
In a realistic vent I wonder what they are affrade of.. is it pure paranoia? Or dose it threaton someone personally [the way one phlosophy threatons members of an oposing phlosophy]
Early biological warfare (Score:1)
They most certainly did. It is well documented that we gave blankets and bedding known to be infected with smallpox to many native tribes with devastating results, in what is the first such biological warfare program of which I'm aware.
Certainly not the first occurence of biological warfare. This is as old as war itself. Some of ours dead from bad diseases? Get them into enemy territory in one way or another. Toss the bodies over their walls with a catapult. Or into the river that flows into their area.
This is older than Columbus.
Re:Likely true (Score:1)
"paranoia will distory ya"
Ok historicly paranoid governments have lasted for a very long time so don't expect this put put an end to the Chinese government any time soon.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
No we just ambush their compounds and then burn them alive.
Utter Hypocrisy (Score:1)
Police spokesman Pete Piringer said that because the attack did not succeed in getting access to McWee's server, there did not seem to be a crime committed."
This is only one man making a comment, but I'm certain this would be of interest to Kevin Mitnick.
Show of force? (Score:1)
"Nice site. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."
--
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
China will get there when it gets there, by its own means... hopefully
They claim to be athiest but... (Score:1)
Boy this is waaaaaay off the technical discussion path, isn't it? Well in that case if the cult did decide to run Linux one day, would the current versions running 2.2.10 be resistant to DoS?
(PS - mainland Chinese public opinion is of reuniting Taiwan with China. But what about the Chinese on Taiwan? I hope their opinions count too!)
Today's English Lesson: Oxymorons
Re:More like some script kiddie with (Score:1)
Re:More like philosophies? (Score:1)
Some xtians get fearful over anything that dosn't come from the Bible.
I say xtians becouse I have a lot of respect for real christans.. but thats a diffrent topic
Re:How do China's proxies work? (Score:1)
This seems to be getting to the level of a religous crusade.
Just my prospective
As for a technicly knoladgable reporter... a reporter could a. grab the news agentcys SysAdm, b. Talk with tech savy teenager, c. Contact a Linux user group who was in news recently.
Reporters are pritty good at getting information when they really try.
I guess it could be spoofed but it's no easy effort. Douptful someone could do it and then fail to crack the victoms computer.
How much of this is true (Score:1)
So... is this fact or is it fiction... *ONE* attack seems to originate from a police station... could it be that there's a Chinese police officer who isn't exactly on terms with the US ? Surely not ! Perish the very thought !
I really do doubt that the Chinese Government would act in this way... do they not realise that the US would strike back ? OK, you may not read that the US is now attempting to hack Chinese machines, but what do you know ? Chinese newspapers will probably be full of stories stating how the Capitalists have tried to deny the Peoples Republic of internet rights and the like... but truth in these times is a rare commodity.
Re:perspective (Score:1)
> Every body knows about David Koresh. The
> Heavens Gate... When there is a problem, if
> nothing is done, people die!!!
Religions thrive on martyrdom: it's the entire principle upon which Christianity, Islam, and -- to some degree -- Judaism are built upon. Even polytheistic religions have elements -- such as the Prometheus and Huitzilapochtli myths (and the 'nine million martyrs' Wiccan myth) -- that promote martyrdom. The harder you crack down on a religion, the more the *religion itself* is going to be seen as a martyr.
It worked for Christianity.
It held the generally fractuous Jews together through millenia of exile.
It caused David Koresh to commit suicide with all his followers.
In short, cracking down on a religion is the worst possible thing you could do to 'fix' the problem of a deviant religion. Further, remember that 'deviant' religions with many members have a tendency to move towards the norm; for instance, Mormonism -- which supported the formation of the nation of Deseret within the borders of the United States -- quickly moved in line with other 'mainstream' religions.
Second: you cannot argue 'information needs to be free' out of one side of your mouth and 'stupid information needs to be controlled by the Firm Hand of Government' out of the other. Excactly how is the moderation of information (in this case, *religious* information) different between the cases you present in the two paragraphs I've commented upon?
> If you naively look at the situation, and
> simply assume its another oddity of Chinese
> government, then you need to look beyond
> American media. If you've been any where in the
> world outside of the US, you'll know that the
> US main stream media is the LEAST FREE--Even
> compared to China.
Here's where my 'BS Detector' light goes off.
Right.
The politics of propaganda go like this: when your government is doing something you prefer the people not know about, you cut off access to alternate viewpoints, ergo restricting the 'info-flow' to a single stream. The Chinese government does this very effectively: they've stifled the underground press, limited 'net access, and even controlled the flow of information by phone. Most of their 'press releases' consist of fabricated stories, spin doctoring, and out of context information.
Further, the Chinese press is composed of Party officials trained to take the Party Line(tm). They do so in every possible circumstance.
The United States does not have the fairest media. Our treatment of the Kosovo situation was egregiously unfair to both the Kosovar, the Serbs, and what was going on. Our treatment of the Air Force incident in Italy glossed over the entire situation. Our press does its best to portray the American viewpoint as the right one, especially within the arena of American foreign policy.
However: there is no such thing as the 'American Media'. A good portion of the information we chalk up to 'America' is actually coming from Canada and the UK -- and, recently, we've been getting a lot of translated articles from Germany. In a worldwide marketplace of information, the 'propaganda' you accuse the government of *cannot* work.
The only place where it becomes sticky is within the arena of American politics, which is largely irrelevant on a large scale. However -- within this arena -- the tenor of articles is generally determined by the political disposition at the time of writing. If that falls along Republican and Democrat party lines, then that's just the opinion of Joe Average.
Anyway.
I've rambled on.
-- Dr. Benway
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
A few more things on Falun Gong.
One of their beliefs is that once you die, you become a god of sorts. Basically, your blood forms the type of clothing that emperors wore in dynastic China - very symbolic, as only the emperors were allowed to wear these robes and they were considered gods. Anyways, as a result, some followers commit suicide in EXTREMELY gruesome ways to allow their blood to form this robe. For example, slitting wrists, driving cars into poles, etc.
And you know what? The US's perception of China is largely based on old anti-Communist bullshit. I'm a US citizen. I've lived in China for 3 years. I should hope I know enough about the place and the culture (I'm Chinese) to say that the country is anything but the Communist that is popularly thought of in the US. Come by sometime and see for yourself instead of postulating what you've been taught. Part of communism is the inability to practice free trade. Guess what? Look around your house and find all the little things that have got "Made in China" on them. I could go outside and sell something right now, or buy something from the thousands of small businesses around.
Censorship? Sure. The subject of this post contains 'gov't of china sucks' I'm in China. I'm typing this. I'm submitting this. Censorship my ass.
Jonathan Wang
Economic implications (Score:1)
China cannot possibly hate America. Their economy is reliant on the cheap labor that American companies get there. Some reason for why China could not "blow us up."
I sure hope that the US won't go around supporting coups against other countries' governments again. One - the US got screwed in Vietnam, Korea, etc., and two - the US fucks up foreign nations' internal affairs enough already. Soverign countries deserve their rights too. The US should stop thinking that it's the role model/superhero of the world.
Jonathan Wang
Sure, the US isn't too bad, comparatively ... (Score:1)
If you do then you might want to start by denying Janet Reno her goal of totalitarian control.
Re:Do u know what FALUN GONG is (Score:1)
I mean, can't you just picture a Jack Chick tract saying exactly what that said about Falun Gong? And about as coherently too. Though at least the original poster has the excuse of not having English as a first language.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:1)
1) I am not a Chinese, but I play one on TV.
2) I think that China would be better with a new hairdresser.
3) I support bans on gongs in general because they are too loud.
Seriously though, I'm sure this whole issue is too complex for us westerners to understand. Remember we are talking about China here, the ultimate of the chinese fortune cookies (which really are not "chinese" to begin with.)
I would say the chinese solution to the problem would be to just change the name of the sect. That would solve everything, right?
Why hasn't the leader of the group thought of that yet? Sounds like he's been in New Jersey too long. If I lived in NJ, after sniffing all those chemicals in the air, I'd think I could walk on water too.
System halted
DoS from China (Score:1)
Re:communism has -8 million? (Score:2)
The Chinese government estimates that at it's peak, 70 million people practiced Falun Gong, I was using their figures since that's what they will base their reactions on. The Communist party states that they have 60 million members.
Can't you take the Evil Arabs(TM) instead? (Score:1)
So at least please make the next country something small. Ok, maybe the Evil Arabs is too used now (so *stop* bombing Iraq, btw) but now when it seems to be time for the Even More Evil Communists again, take Cuba! (Economic too, the TV teams won't have to travel very far) Or use the Terrorist thing again and take some African country.
Don't risk starting WW3 before EU gets militarized and armed up, they don't want to miss all the fun!
Re:Likely true (Score:1)
I'd take them over our current crop. I will start taking brisk walks in the name of revolution!
-kabloie
Re:An interesting note.. (Score:3)
An interesting aside, when NT 4 was originally released, it waited an extremely long time before removing connection requests, this made it very sensitive to syn floods.
Re:The Chinese Govm't doesn't play nice (Score:1)
notice how pretty much the whole world except China either speaks english or falls all over itself trying to learn?)
!?!! You've probably never been to Quebec.
Anywho this is drifting off-topic...
Re:Who Cares anyway? (Score:1)
Re:An interesting note.. (Score:1)
Re:Linux (Score:1)
Wierd, isn't it?
Phil Fraering "Humans. Go Fig." - Rita
Re:Solution. (Score:1)
Also, in case you also somehow "forgot" to learn up on Cisco before posting totally off-topic about it, you would know that Quality of Service tools in Cisco routers are by no means new, nor by no means a problem when used correctly by scrupulous service providers.
And playing with DNS like that is neither fun nor easy, and not a solution to the problem. The fact still remains that the Chinese Government (or whoever it really is) is attacking a machine with neither provocation or reason... so it really means nothing at all to just change which machine is getting attacked.
---
Tim Wilde
Sysadmin, Dynamic DNS Network Services
Re:More like some script kiddie with 2 much (nt) (Score:1)
Here is an example for you:
Open your present
No, you open your present
Kazinski Christmas
Not much of a solution (Score:1)
Also, in case you also somehow "forgot" to learn up on Cisco before posting totally off-topic about it, you would know that Quality of Service tools in Cisco routers are by no means new, nor by no means a problem when used correctly by scrupulous service providers.
And playing with DNS like that is neither fun nor easy, and not a solution to the problem. The fact still remains that the Chinese Government (or whoever it really is) is attacking a machine with neither provocation or reason... so it really means nothing at all to just change which machine is getting attacked.
---
Tim Wilde
Sysadmin, Dynamic DNS Network Services
On "Most Favoured Nation" (Score:2)
I think there was a bill that would change "Most Favoured Nation" to "normal trade relations" in the official lexicons. I don't know if it passed.
Personally, I'm against free trade, inasmuch as it removes the ability of a country to conduct foriegn policy. If a country wants to close its markets for ideological reasons, it should be able to do so.
Re:Solution. (Score:1)
---
Tim Wilde
Sysadmin, Dynamic DNS Network Services
Re:Surprised? (Score:1)
What a bunch of whores.
When WWW III comes they will be the first to get pistoned off the fscking plannet and I will rejoice.
Yes we are all human, but we all do not act the same.
Down with China.
Most Favored Nation can do no wrong. (Score:1)
For this, China continues to be rewarded with Most Favored Nation status. Washington tries not to call it this anymore instead calling it low tarrif status whatever. It all amounts to the same thing. China can do no wrong and the most we'll do in response is FROWN really really really really really really really really really really really really really hard. Ooooo. That'll show 'em. But we'll keep smiling and shaking hands with these KILLERS rather than disrupt business. After all, its not Americans being brutalized, right?
Even Cuba isn't as bad as China yet Cuba suffers our wrath far more than China ever does.
The infamous Mr. Noone (Score:1)
Surely not .... (Score:1)
stupid. If they wanted to knock these sites out, a couple of hundred dollars to some US script kiddies would have solved the problem.
mmmm an attack from the public security ministry, don't think so. I think the only ppl commiting any crimes are the Journalists, either they are incompetent in the field (not suprising) or they did not do their research.
njd
some background (Score:1)
According to the New York Times (July 27) "The officials (1200 gov't followers of Falun Gong) were taken over the weekend to schools in a city in northern China, where they are being required to study Communist Party documents and to renounce any allegiance to the spiritual movement, the Information Center for Human Rights and Democratic Movement in China said Monday." and "Government organizations and quasi-governmental groups have been instructed to come forward to denounce Falun Gong, and to hold political study sessions to recite Marxist theory that few officials, and fewer ordinary people, believe in any more."
Great! Fight spiritual belief with Marxist propaganda! Let's see how effective that is in changing belief systems.
And of course, the PRC, have requested to extradite its founder who lives in the US. If the US does let Beijing have Li Hongzhi, its founder, the US will show it allows the PRC to do pretty much as it pleases.
Seems to me this is a typical crush the people ploy by the PRC, who cry wolf, suppress the perceived threat, then say the threat wasn't as bad as thought.
Regardless of whether or not a "script kiddie" spoofed addresses, it does not justify the PRC's use of intimdation and harassment against its own people. Since the movement was founded in 1992, I seriously doubt there is an organized attempt to take over the Chinese gov't by a bunch of religious fanatics as some have said here.
Please note I *do not* speak for anybody other than myself.
Re:Police need to come into the second millenia (Score:2)
Of course, it's also possible that the police were asked not to pursue the case, to minimise political fallout. After the bombing of the Chinese embasy, the LAST thing the US wants right now is for the Chinese to accuse them of sponsoring a revolution.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:2)
but the Davidians shot first and lit thier own damn fire.
The Davidians shot at a group of heavily armed men in paramilitary uniforms with no visable markings who were rushing their compound. If the ATF had simply wanted to enforce law, they could have arrested Koresh on one of the many regular occasions where he was jogging alone outside of the compound. The whole operation could have been handled by a single sheriff's deputy with zero fanfare. Clearly, that's not what they wanted to do.
As for the fire, who knows who started it, we have only the word of the ATF about that.
Re:You'd be surprised... (Score:2)
What this means is that it may only be a small influential group that is trying to get rid of faul-gong-however-you-spell-it, and not representative of the whole. Just like when the NSA tries to ban crypto - you've got the Commerce Department going "huh?"
Now, having said that; Bad china. Baaaad. ROOM!
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Internal vs External Harassment (gov't of china .. (Score:2)
He says that the Chinese government are harassing citizens of other countries. Now I am not sure about you, but I would rather be flooded with ICMP messages than Cluster bombs (Yes they did use them in Serbia as well as Vietnam among others).
The US feels that if they dont agree with an external country's policies, they are free to bomb the country into the ground, see Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia. Now you may feel that Iraq and Serbia are run by governments of questionable nature. But what the hell did Vietnam do to deserve the bombardment that it got ?????
On the other hand the citizens of the US are allegedly protected by all their ammendments. One day a country will respond and the US just *might * rethink their attitude to international relations.
njd
Separate! (Score:2)
Am I suggesting that you are not patriotic? YES. you are so clouded by your judgement against the Chinese government that you failed to look at situation rationally and objectively! PEOPLE ARE DYING!!! I can't believe that you are looking at all those crying faces on TV, and telling me that they are all paid actors. Ohh, wait, you probably don't get to see the families of the demented, dying, and the dead. sorry, I forgot about the American media....
Well, there are demented, dying, and dead. Because of certain under-educated, self concocted, mystical believe system, that uses Budhist terminology, but does not follow budhist teachings. Its a mix of religion, meditation, and POLITICS. yes. it is a political organization. I remember once, the head of the organizatino said. "Some people practice Qigong under trees. but I see, that after a few years, the trees are dead from them rolling too much under them. Why must they practice Qigong under trees?? And kill the trees? Go practice some where else...."
The main activity for those people gathered in front of Chinese government office is to "Practice Qigong." the message was that some how that ground was a good place for practicing. But WHY? there are plenty of good places to practice Qigong, why infront of the Chinese government. Don't tell me that the Million men march in washington didn't have a political reason behind it. To claim that they must practice their Qigong infront of Chinese government, and that it was totally pure in intentions, and had no political reasons, and especially in such tumultuous times in China, is simply naive.
Qigong inherently does is not religious. People researched and utilized it for over 5000 years--Usually hidden in mountains, for exactly this reason: Very easily it can bring a "head cutting crime" to its practitioner. To use a Qigong organization, to even remotely promote such a sensitive activity, is just plainly not the way to go from Traditional Chinese Qigong.
Any ways, main point is, it is political. Treat it as a political activity that these people are involved in, and then tell me that you think the government is trying to disalow a political party.... I'm fine with that. Go and bite the government's head off if you want for doing that, and I might even help you chew.
Re:The Chinese Govm't doesn't play nice (Score:2)
Here in Sweden, which was always neutral, they could often not listen to it because of the Russian interference machines...
Don't excuse Janet Reno's desire for tyranny (Score:2)
And you're encouraging it by saying that our token "democracies" are not as bad as China. Of course they're not. Yet. And we don't want to be heading in that direction either.
Re:perspective (Score:2)
I'm not sure exactly where you're going with your post.
I avoided going into belief systems in my original post because it is not esential to understanding the reaction of the Chinese governments reaction.
I personally practice Qigong and cultivation techniques, so I certailny won't dismiss it as superstition. I do think that Falun Dafa may be oversimplifying things in places, but there's nothing new about that. I have not seen a doctor in over a decade, and I am in good health.
As for Falun Dafa being fake, I wouldn't be so sure.
People can die from many beliefs, including the belief that western medicine is the final authority on health. The Chinese government (which definatly has an agenda to support) is only able to point to 16 deaths from people failing to seek medical treatment. That is out of 70 million people (by their estimates). Pick any random 70 million people, and I'll bet you will find at least 16 who died of a treatable disease. 16 out of 70 million (or even 1 million) is not statistically significant. Far more than that die in traffic accidents.
As for the whole Koresh incident, they are now dead, but government intervention was for their own good. Keep in mind that Koresh could have been arrested during one of his regular trips into town, or while jogging off the compound (which he did regularly). If arresting him was the REAL motive for the incident, then the Fed. agencies are more stupid than I thought (which is saying a lot!).
A final note: Consider for a moment is 10,000 people walked into Washington D.C., and, without saying a word, sat in a circle around the White House. After sitting there wordlessly for the day, they all get up and walk away. You'd better believe the FBI and the Secret Service would be all over it.
You'd be surprised... (Score:3)
That is all.
Re:You'd be surprised... (Score:3)
F@1uN G0ñg ?
(Admittedly, I'm not a script-kiddie, but this is what immediately flashed into my mind.)
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Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:2)
Before I throw in my take, let's discuss some facts.
a) High school education has nothing to do with the guy's talent, you are an igorant elitist.
b) The guy's in NJ is because Beijing forced him to leave. They started to use this policy from a few years ago. And it's MUCH more effective than any other depressing technique they used before. As soon as the fish leave its water, it's going to try out slowly --very slowly, so nobody will notice it. (You know all the men Beijing kicked out is going to end up in the U of A. Most of them can't adapt to the new environment/figting ground very well.) There was the guy * who was jailed for 20 or so years, and he was sent stright to airport from jail. The minute he came out of JFk, he declared that he wanted to join Taiwan majority party, little did he know that the Taiwan political environment has changed drasitically. That Party has gotten rid of most of the principle it stand for five years ago. So he becomed an instant laughingstock (to all the Chinese, which is what counts.) This is exactly what they did to the FalunGong leader.
c) The falun Gong doesn't stand for anything, another reason you and the communist party has no say on banning such a "thing" (It's not an organization) The reason of the chackdown is that it's really a perfect target for shifting the public focus --The economic is not moving well; new bottleneck; There's a real chance that that fuck-face in taiwan is willing to create a crisis to extend his presidency (he has used up all of his two terms.) This is just like 2 years ago's southern China prostitute crackdown, if the heads in Beijing can't agree on some more important thing, they agree on a half time break.
Personally, the retro style "study class" come straigh from the cultural revolution is a laugh riot. As if someone over 14 will take it seriously anymore. And other indication that Jiang ZheMin and co. havn't put a lot of thought on it.
d) You are really lame in implying that you support a offical DoS attact, why don't you just say it's some patriotic script-kiddie who has access to the machine.
CY
*I'll be damn if I remember his name, I'm writing this reply offline.
Police need to come into the second millenia (Score:2)
Someone needs to remind Mr. Piringer, along with the various state legislatures, that other attempted crimes (rape, murder, robbery, burglary, etc), are all quite illegal.
Re:How do China's proxies work? (Score:2)
Don't you think that maybe people who would know how to do this, for instance U.S. Government hackers who might not want to go public, might contact reporters and give them enough info and background to do such checks? I'm sure there's a lot going on behind the scenes we simply don't know.
Re:gov't of china sucks. (Score:3)
1) I am a Chinese in America;
2) I think China would be better as a democracy;
3) I support bans on Falun Gong.
I've noticed that much of the publicity in America surrounding China's ban on the sect fails to mention the disturbing details about the group:
1. The group was founded just seven years ago by a man with high school education. He now lives in a spacious estate in (I believe) New Jersey.
2. The man claims he needs no medication and suffers no ailments.
3. He claimed Earth is in a volatile state and might explode in 1997 or 98. He now says he can delay the end of world for as long as 30 years.
4. His methods of meditation can lift a practitioner above water. Yet, when his followers surrounded ZhongNanHai (where Chinese leaders live) they failed to surround the fourth side -- a lake.
I knew it! (Score:2)
I read about this in my local paper. Seems they were syn-flooding several sites, spoofing the IP of the Dept. of Transportation. But why is this so shocking? After all, the U.S. gov't authorized American crackers to go after Milosevich's (sp?) bank accounts.
I think you can figure out how to email me
Re:An interesting note.. (Score:2)
Re:Don't excuse Janet Reno's desire for tyranny (Score:2)
The differences between communism and a democracy/republic is political.
I think you can figure out how to email me
Hypocrites (Score:2)
Chinese crackers sentenced to death
12/29/98 2:44PM PDT
Two crackers who stole $31,400 from a bank in eastern China have been sentenced to DEATH.
Reported on Slashdot:
Chinese Government Implicated in DoS on US Site
Posted by CmdrTaco on Saturday July 31, @01:28PM EDT
Any questions?
How do China's proxies work? (Score:3)
>
> The address McWee said was left behind is registered with the
> Asia Pacific Network Information Centre, a public registry service
> for Internet addressees. According to the service, there are two
> phone numbers in Beijing listed with that address.
>
> When The Associated Press called the numbers, a person who
> answered the phone identified them as belonging to the Public
> Security Ministry. A telephone operator at the ministry said they
> belonged to its Internet Monitoring Bureau.
Silly question for y'all... as much as I'd like to believe that the Chinese Government is involved in DOSing "subversive" sites around the world, I remember reading something to the effect that all IP connectivity from China to the rest of the world goes through some sort of monitoring/firewall/gateway thingy.
If, for WWW access, this takes the form of some sort of proxy, perhaps it's only natural that the IP addresses of Chinese surfers appear to all be coming from a netblock controlled by the "Internet Monitoring Bureau"? Maybe it's the Chinese Government, maybe it's a Chinese script kiddie.
Maybe the Internet Monitoring Bureau, as they presumably have control over what domains get registered, happens to be the default telephone contact for domains in .cn, whether or not all traffic goes through a proxy server.
Does anyone have any hard information on how "Internet access" works in China?
My gut says it's still the Chinese government. But my brain's telling me not to jump to conclusions, especially when the most sensational "evidence" is based a phone call from an Associated Press reporter from a WHOIS lookup on APNIC.
(After all, when was the last time you saw an AP reporter who even knew what a WHOIS lookup was, let alone one who would consider that the concept of "contact information" for domains in a country like China might be completely different from that in the States.)
So - like I said - anyone know how IP connectivity in China really works and that this isn't just a red herring?