Mitnick Charges Dropped 247
Keefesis (the first of many who wrote in with the news) writes "The L.A. District Attorney dropped the case against Mitnick according to this article by MSNBC. Nice birthday present I guess :) " I wonder what this will do the movie Takedown (based on the book) that is currently in post-production, and stars Tom Berenger as John Markoff, and Skeet Ulrich as Kevin Mitnick. No joke. Update: 08/07 01:43 by J : To clarify, he is not out of the woods yet. The federal charges against him have not been dropped.
Re:everyone deserves a fair go (Score:1)
Re:trial (Score:1)
Re:He is a fool. :: mumia (Score:1)
First, there's less evidence against Mumia than against Kevin. It was right out in the open, yes. And everyone who saw it had dramatically different stories, from what people were wearing to how many people were on the scene to where they were standing. The people who testified that it _was_ mumia didn't originally have him as the shooter in their dispositions, then had him shooting from the wrong direction, all sorts of oddities. But not all that odd considering the witnesses were being threatened with drug and prostitution charges. This obviously doesn't mean Mumia _didn't_ do it. But just about everyone who looks into the whole story will concede that there's a reasonable doubt.
The point of the Mumia supporters, however, is that he didn't get a real trial. On the miscarage of justice scale, Kevin's trial pales in comparison to Mumia's. He chose to represent himself, and was then thrown in detention and not allowed to appear. I mean, really, look into the trial, even if only for entertainment's sake. It's honestly worth your time.
But most notably, Mumia hasn't played the "poor me" card. He's said very little about his own case, instead chosing to comment on systematic and institutional issues. I (and most people, I think) expect someone who's innocent to go around constantly wailing their head off about how they're innocent, etc. If they didn't engage in such actions, they're probably guilty and just trying to divert attention from the issue at hand. Thus I was pretty anti-Mumia at the start. He's constantly said "look, I gave my testimony, and nothing has changed... onto the balkan conflict, etc."
Which brings us to perhaps the most poignant difference between Kevin and Mumia. Mumia is a really bright guy -- well read and a great speaker. He's made a lot of people stop and think about prisons and the justice system -- Kevin didn't do this, and Goldstein was only able to do so on a superficial level by holding up a neon characture of Kevin. And that particular message was poorly constructed and delivered to a small community.
But enough babble. Please, read _Live from Death Row_ or something. Available at your local public library. Like I said, worth the effort.
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
he is a repeat offender.
now, "Signal 11", what cracks did he fall through?
what political movement does he represent?
What IDEALS does he uphold in defiance of the USG..
Oh yeah, the script kiddie code...
oh and what other thing, since you are so smart and knowledgeable about the case, please do tell us WHICH rights of his were violated?...
Re:everyone deserves a fair go (Score:1)
he waived his right to a speedy trial after having been convicted of this crime before...
he did so so his lawyers could have more time to review the evidence... and then he pled GUILTY...
your organization was able to rais $3k for his defense... 20c / reader... nice job, no wonder he could only afford the court-appointed lawyers...
Re:This Bites by butt (Score:1)
Re:being connected as well as information is power (Score:1)
_Your_ govt used military power without UNO resolution.
Search USA Today Archives and you'll (probably, if it's not censored out) find a report about B.C. announcing a 'cracker war' against Yugoslavia.
Again, if you're US govt 'buddy', you can crack, kill, whatever. Otherwise, you will be caught and punished.
And K.M. is not an idiot, in no way. Idiots are sysadmins of companies he cracked. They are damn lamers who don't deserve the right to be called even computer literate.
Except those of them who now raise their voices in protection of K.M. Because he is better than they and the only thing that can save them from eternal lamery is to ask K.M. to _teach_ them. Ditto security officers.
Damn this guy spent $100 to screw them up on millions! I always thought treasures _must_ be protected better!
Re:Complete Bullshit! - You are the problem (Score:1)
he has no right to bail (esp as a convicted felon)
he has chosen to delay his trial, and then chosen to plead guilty...
Re:This is NOT the federal case (Score:1)
Did I mention federal? No I didn't I could've been talking about the Brit who collapsed the banking system over there for all you know. Next time think twice before making an ass of yourself.
Damn my bad again... Anonymous Coward says it all.
final words [antioffline.com]
Free Larry Hoover!!! (Score:1)
I think the whole point about the Kevin Mitnick protests is the crappy way the government has treated him while keeping him locked up. The main thing that sticks out in my mind is the repeated refusal of the government to grant him meaningful access to the evidence to be used against him, as well as the denial of access to even the most simple technology because of some overblown fear that he might use it in some magical way to cause trouble. If you take the time to look into some of the government's abuses of power, you might be as pissed as many of Kevin's sympathizers.
Re:Social Engineering (Score:1)
"Social engineering" could also be called:
Fraud,
Lying,
Deception.
Taking advantage of the good nature of other people is not by any stretch of the imagination a form of 'engineering.' People like Mr. Mitnick are just plain vanilla criminals who've adopted some sort of an aura about them because of the circles they run in.
Kevin is not a CRACKER (Score:1)
This is something that has bothered me for some time. Why do slashdotters take it upon themselves to tell the media what terms they should use to define hackers? You guys have absolutly no business saying how to define someone else. Kevin Mitnick is a hacker, you people, have no right to insist he be called anything else.
You're right that Slashdot has a hell of a lot of influence. Largely due to the sheer volume of traffic and emails Slashdot people generate. What's so troubling is that reading these posts, almost every single one is horribly inaccurate. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGT GUYS!! At least read the damn article.. But if your not going to read about the rest of the case, don't assume you know what it's about... because most people here, have simply regurgitated the hype, myths, rumors and flat out lies about Kevin. I don't have the time to go into correcting them, but you could even read posts from previous Mitnick subjects on Slashdot, for better info (also http://www.freekevin.com [freekevin.com]). Know the facts before you demonize someone you don't know as a "Cracker".
Also, mind you Kevin hasn't been convicted.. so, how is it that someone is a hacker, and then when they get arrested, all of a sudden he's a cracker? Never mind the choice of word, just going by what it's said to mean. It's ridiculous. There are hackers, and there are criminals. Some hackers are also criminals.. That does not negate that they are still hackers. One should look at what the alleged crime IS before attacking someone.
Doug Thomas has written many articles on the Mitnick case for Wired.. In each article he calls Kevin a hacker, and in each one the editor changes it to read "Celebrity Cracker" - Doug Thomas bitterly opposed them changing his wording, Wired persisted, Doug Thomas even stopped writing for Wired in protest, still Wired has insisted on using that phrase. In fact they thought it was kind of funny, in this article (http://www.wired.com/news/ news/politics/story/20053.html [wired.com]) they sneaked that phrase in as quoting me saying "just don't call him a 'celebrity cracker'" (and for the record, I didn't growl). I spoke to various Wired reporters and editors, and you know what they told me? They were forced to do that because they get bombarded with emails from "angry slashdot users" whenever they call him a hacker. YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT LIKE THIS. I know many of you consider yourselves hackers, if you feel you share the hacker spirit, more power to you.. Just learn to be more tolerant and respectful towards your "underground" counterparts. It is incredibly arrogant and pretentious to do otherwise. For those of you who insist on rejecting other groups of people in the hacker community, stop worrying about how they're labeled, if you're not one of them, it's none of your goddamn business! The worst part of using the word "cracker" is that it's totally subjective who and what a cracker is... so if ANYONE is going to decide to use it, it sure as hell shouldn't be slashdot.
Language evolves as is needed, and as the public accepts it. This use of the word 'cracker' has been rejected by most people and media outlets. It serves no legitimate purpose for anyone other than ignorant, narrow-minded, egotistical, jerks - who are such snobs that they can't stand to be associated with anyone who dares to act and think differently, but are too damn conceited to call themselves something else, so they insist on calling other people names.
As far as I'm concerned it is libelous.
Sad, but figures (Score:1)
Still, if memory serves me, he was the one who kept sabotaging his own defense, so one can't feel TOO anguished about it.
Hmmm... charges dropped, major attacks against machines at above.net. Coincidence? Must be... ;)
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
Unbelievable. (Score:1)
It could have been many people dealt with in this matter. None of us are pure. Kevin was unlucky enough to be the first in line. Yes, he did some stupid thing, and yes, he's a criminal - both in the eyes of the law and the general concensus. But in no way does any human deserve to be taken outside the rules decided upon by our lawmakers. This just shows us that real justice has a long way to come before we can all feel safe.
What I hope is that they call it "time-served" and let his go, êbut I may just be wishful thinking. This battle isn't over.
Even if he was allowed to go free, what then? Will be fight the government for unlawful prosecution and the removal of his constitutional rights? I suspect he's a tired, tired man, but this kind of action still needs to be taken so that the next case of this sort does not turn into anoth witch-hunt.
TheGeek http://www.geekrights.org [geekrights.org]
trial (Score:1)
So, he served a prison sentence without being judged by trial?
Anyways, I guess this is a good thing for him, I just don't really understand the U.S.'s notion of "justice"..
Re:Your a funny guy.. (Score:1)
Let's see... the claim of theft was a lie therefore nothing was stolen therefore it's petty theft! Gawd, you dolt!
Ok, I'll recind one thing... he's not a script kiddy.... he's an ankle biter.
I forgot that script kiddies couldnt run GCC let alone ftp something manually by forming the packets by hand. But the claim that he did something special or super "high-tech" is completely bogus... every wanna-be could do what he did easily, everyone knows that the Uber-hackers are never known and never get cought (The idiot was cracking from his apartment most of the time!)
So yes, I recinded the script kiddy remark...
I didnt mean to offend all the script kiddies out there by affiliating them with a petty thief and ankle biter.
Why dont you ACTUALLY read what happened instead of eating your news bites....
Re:Your a funny guy.. (Score:1)
Er, fine. But you used the million dollar figure as evidence that he wasn't a petty criminal. So, either he did that much damage and is (a little) dangerous, or he didn't and he's a script kiddie.
I actually haven't heard anything on CNN about Kevin because I don't think they put anything on about him just like the rest of the Main stream media.
1: Relatively few people in the world give a shit about Kevin, so CNN has little reason to run round the clock coverage (ratings, you know).
2: They *have* run stories every now and then about him; I remember seeing his face on TV fairly recently (besides on ZDTV).
I did however read takedown (horribly written.) And Online with Kevin Mitnick as well as hnn, 2600 and the free kevin page.
Good for you.
I don't know if I belive that shit about him just getting everything of Usenet or their would be a hell of alot more damage done by script kiddes that have gotten passwords of usenet.
First, this happened several years ago, before the script kiddies outnumbered the rest of us, and back when a lot of people were lax in securing their systems. Things are better now, but you can still find quite a bit of info in the Usenet that can be used for evil.
Second, script kiddies can do a lot of damage. Maybe we shoul have a ranking system: most SK's are completely worthless, but some are 1337 enough to do some damage if they get in. Depending on how you look at it, Kevin may have been in the latter group. (Hint: it helps his case if he isn't.)
I think that you sould at least admit your wrong by saying that Kevin was a petty theft.
Except he *was* a petty thief. Maybe he was just a particularly skilled petty thief.
I'm not sure if password harvesting makes Kevin a Script kiddes.
It does, or else we'd have to come up with a new term. (How about luser?)
I really don't beleive that Saumuri was the one that stole the source code and the accidently left a open ftp port on his box.
Why not? Do you have any evidence that he didn't?
I really don't consider myself a toll.
You're right, you aren't a troll. Keep trying though, you're almost there...
but I really don't care about your petty name calling.
So you said he was speaking out of his ass. OK...
Unfortunately, I don't have any links either. I used to know where to find the info that would prove you wrong, but the little wisp of concern I had for Kevin has long since been crushed under the feet of the cults that have sprung up to support him. I would sugest you use the vast power of the Internet and look for the facts yourself; try sites/people that are critical of him first, they're often at least half right. To be honest I wouldn't believe kevinmitnick.com if they told me the sky was blue: even if they are right, they have too much personal interest in the case to be trusted.
Finally, I would like to point out the more pathetic he looks, the more of a brain-damaged script kiddie people believe he is, the more it hurts the case against him. I could see throwing a cyber-terrorist (or whatever they call them now) in prison, but a a little weenie puling passwords of the Usenet? I'd let him go now. You guys (his loyal supporters) are probably doing more damage to his case by making him look like Gods-gift-to-warez than he ever did with his actual crimes.
Re:Still can fase Federal charges (Score:1)
Of course, he'll be stuffed in a halfway house, and not be given much legal access to 'puters (a restriction which, in my opinion, is totally punitive and pretty much wipes out his chance at being a productive member of society given his now already heavily out-of-date skill set). We can expect to not be cracked by him any time in the immediate future.
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
Legal Sys is a joke. (Score:1)
D.A.: If you turn rat you'll walk
Friend: I have nothing to do with it.
D.A.: Suffer
Friend? Sentenced to 15-Life served 8 years from the age of 18-26 and is now on parole. For the sake of some dipshit D.A. trying to make a name for himself. Surveillance shows my friend had nothing to do with crap.
Trial time: Surveillance tapes... Disappeared in the system. In order to try to catch a quote bigger fish my friends life was screwed up. Fuck the justice system in the U.S. its a distorted joke.
Mitnick case was a media joke to begin with. He was plain and simply used as a scapegoat and in return they created an overflow of scriptkiddies who used his name to hack anything and everything.
A Fantastic Fantasy World (Score:2)
There have been a number of comments about how Mitnick is a criminal, how he deserves what he got, how his rights weren't violated. There have even been a few posts to the effect of "love it or leave it" politics. Our government is great, and how dare you.. blah blah blah.
My response to all of you will be the same: Get the facts. The reason these people continue to believe the lies despite ready access to the truth is because they are afraid of the responsibility that knowing the truth bestows on people. The moral responsibility to DO something. When you know what's really going on, when you have all the facts laid out in front of you and can see for yourself what these gross injustices will do to our country, you have the responsibility to say something, to get other people to listen, and to take action. Not a responsibility many people want to take on.
Ever wondered why nobody believes somebody when they say they were raped? "They must be lying - so and so could never have done that!" The parents search the kids house for drugs, submit them to psychological counseling, etc. Why they would make up something like that is beyond me - and it's fairly easy to see when somebody is going through emotional trama. The reason people ignore the obvious is because they don't want to believe that it could happen to anyone... or themselves. So they ignore the truth, they may even ignore the victim, because they don't want to accept the responsibility for making sure it doesn't happen to anybody else. And you know what - for their apathy, these crimes continue.
You're welcome to ignore the truth. Online, nobody knows where you've been, or what you've read. Your secret is safe with your computer. But when you come out and post publically, in places like Slashdot, it's expected that you've done your homework. We have a special account reserved for people who haven't - Anonymous Coward. Please use it, so we can save ourselves the trouble of skipping over your posts.
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And Justice for all. (Score:1)
That was a stupid thing to say. Perhaps you do smoke crack. Don't threaten me/us.
BZW I live in Switzerland come and get me.
Your a fool (Score:1)
Kevin had/s skills, some of the hacks he did on compaines the companies and goverment still don't know how he did. Why don't you research a bit more before you go flapping your mouth any making your self look like a moron.
However I do think that Kevin should be punished for his crimes. I don't think that the damages where over 1 million. I beleive that he should just be sentenced to time served and be put on probation for quite a long time. But that is not for me or any one else to decide it is for a court of law to chose. That is the way the American Justice system works and if you don't like it move to another country.
My definitions: (Score:1)
This is what those terms meant where I live (Iceland), when I heard them first (in the BBS days) so, I'm not saying my understanding of them is the one universally true one and everybody else is an ignorant fuck. Sadly, some people are saying exactly that about their definitions.
I first heard "legit" programmers calling themselves hackers when I started using the Internet around '93, which put me in touch with more Americans. After that, I understood hacking to be a certain style of programming frowned upon by professors and manager but loved by competent programmers who don't need no steenking Venn diagrams.
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I'm totally sorry (Score:1)
I'd definitely love a laugh today, so please do reply.
Re:trial (Score:1)
If you check the history of Mitnik maybe you will get an understanding of why the judicial system has been playing hardball with him. He has a rather lengthy arrest record(hacking/cracking related), yet he continued to partake in activities that he knew the feds frowned upon. Mitnik has nobody to blame but himself.
Regardless of whether or not he harmed anyone, or caused Sun, Motorola, etc. millions of dollars in damages, he knew when he was doing something wrong and he knew what would happen if he got caught. The choice was his. So why do so many people stll see him as a victim?
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
Kevin said no to this. If you believe that the big nasty government twisted his arm to do this, you must be funny in the head. Forcing the trial forward would have reached a conviction faster.
And yes, I doubt that Mitnik will get off without a guilty plea or guilty verdict. "Wrong place at the wrong time"??? Yeah. Same for Lee Harvey Oswald: He just happened to be behind the gun that shot JFK. (Please no JFK conspiracy theory stuff, it was just an example)
Mitnick broke the law. Plain and simple. He is no political prisoner. That implies that he is imprisoned for his political beliefs. I suppose if he wants to he can say that his political beliefs say it is legal to break into computer/phone systems, or even the "Freedman's Defense": "I do not recognize the authority of the US Federal Gov't." But short of either of these, a political prisoner he is not.
The cracker community tends to react zealously when any one of their fellow crackers gets caught. They try to come up with valid legal grounds on why they should be let go. Please. Grow up. This is the real world where you (should) get punished if you commit a crime.
Finally, Script Kiddie, Yes. Kevin's knowledge of computers was not that much above the common every day script kiddie. If it was, why would he not use the knowledge to make even more money than he was. I know plenty of people who make $70k-$90k right out of college with CS degrees. How come Kevin didn't just do that? Or maybe he wasn't able to.
Script Kiddies go home.
Bites my butt II : the golden years (Score:1)
Why wasnt a demonstration planned on the capitol steps? there has been many demonstrations in washington, a million man march..... why no million hacker march? because noone would have came... because nobody cares, noone wants to "inconvience" themselves for anyone else..
I have hear the "I cant afford to go","I cant get the time off from work","my mom wont let me go" excuses from many for different things... (you'll go to a Linux-con in a heartbeat though!)
(NOTE: the lame demonstration in front of the movie company was just a publicity stunt... Linux users have better turn out for install-fests)
It's the truth, it's the american way....
get used to it...
or even better... CHANGE IT!
kevin Mitnick was railroaded, but we allow the railroad to exist.
(Ya know, back in the 60's the youth of america would risk being MURDERED by our government to stand up for what they believe in --Ohio state comes to mind-- today... we wont get up from out playstations or risk our doritos for anything or anyone shame on you! )
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:2)
An excellent point. I would counter though by saying that you should "pick things big enough to matter, and small enough to win."
It's a noble goal, but I'm abit more practical - I can't stop world hunger by myself, but maybe I can get enough people together to get Mitnick sprung from jail. And that would be a small, but significant victory. Situational morality, I guess.
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Re:being connected as well as information is power (Score:1)
Please. Don't even start a racial discussion. It is so far off topic I refuse to even value it as an argument.
Others have said it before and I will say it again: If you don't like it, you have two choices: Leave or Help. You are doing neither.
The reason Americans are hated abroad (according to many official, knowledgeable sources, including many non-americans) is not so much because of what our government does, but because of the political and socio-economic power the US weilds. This is the power that has kept you safe from other imperialist powers (though US is regarded as one in other countries) since WW2.
I'm sure it would be much better to live in some African country like Somalia or Rwanda. I bet a rich american would last a long time there. You would even be well liked for your expensive house and your bodyguards.
Or more importantly, are you willing to give up your right to say the government should change.
I am an American. I am proud of what I am. I realize the US Gov't isn't perfect. I believe there is no such thing as the perfect gov't. However, at the same time, I know that I could not form the perfect gov't either. Maybe you can. But I doubt it.
Like it or not, it is your gov't. You do have control over it. However, remember that I do too. And 250 Million other people. The gov't isn't around to do your bidding, its around to do our bidding.
Mitnick committed a crime. I have let my government know that I think what he did should be punished. If I am the only one, then I guess I just have to live with that. However, it seems that I am in the majority. While "Majority Rules" is not always the best way, I doubt even you would say that it should be "okay" for someone to do the same to your computers.
I am baffled by the amount of discussion this has produced. A man commits a crime, and we are debating the role of gov't in it. Please. Make him serve his time and get on with your lives. We don't have such discussions about every car-jacker that goes to jail.
This rant has gone on long enough. If you want to bash the US gov't you are bashing every US citizen. Any US citizen who thinks they have no control of the US gov't has already admitted defeat and will be subject to the control of others for the rest of their lives.
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
And since when were you the sole arbiter of truth? The truth is only strained from the facts by careful research, fact checking and fact finding, and sometimes alittle luck.
Secondly, it is only by raising public awareness and education that will ever cause any change to occur.
Along with "All progress depends on unreasonable men" from one of your other posts.
For someone so concerned about research and fact checking, you sure seem to make a lot of grand statements about the nature of politics and epistemology without any evidence to back you up. Who made you the sole arbiter of knowledge?
Since you show little inclination to familiarize yourself with the case, I won't bore you on details.
And I see you're eager to share your considerable research...
Who will America's next political prisoner be? Who's rights will be sacrificed next? Mine? Yours?
Well, there's an objective statement of fact. Nothing gets people going like an irrational fear that "they're next". I suppose you believe in slippery-slopes, too.
You missed something that is rather important: a lot of this Free Kevin stuff isn't helping, and could be hurting his case. Have you noticed all of the "Kevin wasn't a script kiddie, he was 3117" posts on
In fact, if he appears as a worthless little script-kiddie it's a lot more likely that there will be enough public outrage to have him freed. No one wants to help a 'cyber-terrorist', but a young man just trying to look cool and mess around with computers? Why should *he* be in jail?
Of course, a public outcry shouldn't be required anyway. I agree that he has been something stinks about his imprisionment, the gov't hasn't been playing it straight and the companies have been lying there asses off. OTOH, I've got to wonder where you've been. This sort of thing has been happening for decades (centuries, even). Kevin is just one in a very long line (and he's doing rather well, compared to many others). Pep rallies aren't going to fix it because the public just doesn't care. Sure they may feel bad for him, but don't count on them to actually *do* anything. For many (most?) people, there's a wide gulf between the little world they make for themselves and the one they share with us. Don't expect them to cross it just because of a little thing like justice or principle.
(And before anyone points out that I'm making statements about mankind no less grand than his, remember: I never *claimed* to be objective or know anything about the Truth with a capital 'T'.)
It's a police procedural. (Score:1)
Sure! It's a police procedural/manhunt, the first about a new kind of crime. And it's also a true story of one of the very first manhunts for this crime - when the techniques are still being developed on-the-fly. Imagine how the crime-movie fans would drool over a true history of the first-ever manhunt for murder, bank-robbery, or swindling.
It's a drama about a battle between the light-side and dark-side. Mitnick is one of the few crackers who can aspire to the title "hacker". Shimomura is a multi-talented expert, a hacker (in the MIT AI lab sense), recognized as such by his peers. Security consultation is a small part of what he does. But he does it very well, and part of doing it was developing some of the tools that he ended up using to track Mitnick down.
Mitnick could have been still-at-large today. But he broke into Tsutomu's machines (while Tsutomu was on vacation) to steal his tools, notes, and correspondence, leaving tracks on the machines (and a "nyah-nyah" on voicemail). By stealing this info he turned himself into a much larger threat to the network community in general, and a personal threat to Tsutomu, dragging him into the manhunt. So Tsutomu dropped his work and spent months tracking down Mitnick, as the lower-cost option. And was reluctantly cast as the hero in a personal duel.
It's a western. Pioneer settler in new territory, top-gun due to talent developed by necessity, whose work includes sometimes helping the other settlers and businessmen defend themselves against criminals, is goaded into a fight by a big-name gunman trying to boost his reputation. With help from (occasionally bumbling) sidekick and (initially reluctant) lawmen, tracks down and captures the bad guy.
And of course it's a documentary of very interesting new tech.
So how often does Hollywood get to do a movie accessable and appealing to crime fans, western fans, fantasy-drama fans, and techies, all in a single package? It could be the biggest movie of the year.
Any bets on whether Hollywood blows it?
Re:An employer for Mitnik (Score:1)
Re:being connected as well as information is power (Score:1)
And oh please, don't treat me as a plain moron. It's obvious even to a 10 yr old kid what US wants and why they needed Kosovo. How neat it was to turn a significant part of Europe into a moon landscape with hands of Europeans!
But they shouldn't have bombed PRC embassy, really...
However, it's getting too much off-topic. Let's stop it or turn into private.
Re:being connected as well as information is power (Score:1)
Re:Free Kevin! (Score:1)
Re:About time (Score:1)
If I break into your house and don't take anything, I just look around then leave, that's fairly harmless yet still against the law. If I do that several times, get arrested, spend time in jail, get out, and do it again then it's not so harmless.
Script kiddie, no. (Score:3)
Kevin Mitnick was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This story has been going on for longer than slashdot has been in existance. This story was going on before Linux was more than a twinkle in somebody's eye, and before the Web was anything more than the province of colleges.
So you'll forgive me if I am alittle irate at the idea of people comparing him to a "script kiddie", because not only don't they know the story, but they are doing a grave dis-service to the community by saying something like that.
Kevin Mitnick, in short, is a political prisoner. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and has paid for it with over four years in jail without a trial. That's what makes this story significant to the community - that our government was, and still is, so ignorant of how computers and networks work, that they will imprison people for years and years without a trial because they don't understand. Kevin is in jail because of political posturing - the SS and FBI needed to make an example, and that came in the form of one Kevin Mitnick, a petty thief with just enough knowledge of computers to fool the public into thinking he was some super-terrorist.
And that, fellow slashdotters, is why this story is important. Somebody's right to due process was stripped away; Because of ignorance, apathy, and political posturing, a man has been sitting in jail for four years, unable to contribute anything to society. Rapists spend less time in jail than this person has.
Keep that in mind before you try to dismiss this as just another script kiddie who got caught...
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Re:Your a fool (Score:2)
HNN [hackernews.com] debunked the story about how he "cost" the company millions with an internal memo requesting that companies up the amount as high as possible.
And the "love it or leave it attitude" for America is no longer in vogue. All progress depends on unreasonable men. And change is the only way to improve matters - go back to despotism if you want to "love it or leave it".
--
Re:Your a fool - yup you are :-) (Score:1)
I know I'm feeding a troll, but I know what happened, you only know what cnn force feeds you.
Re:Umm, no you are wrong (Score:1)
Re:Clarification and background information (Score:2)
My comment was about the California charges - he did not break into the computers they had charged him with. I was not asserting that he didn't break into the computers covered by the federal charges - that's a separate matter entirely, and those charges haven't been dropped.
Yes. But he is also an associal nerd that cracked for more than 15 years, was arrested more than 5 times, spent one year in jail, and commited further offense repeatidly. The truth is that the justice doesn't know what to do with him: he can't learn his lesson, is a real threat to the society (the moment he decides to do harm, real harm will be done).
Being an "asocial nerd" is not illegal in the United States. He's not a danger to society, since none of his crimes have been violent in any way whatsoever. He broke into some computers, and caused no real damage. As you mentioned, he's been doing this on and off for 15 years, and has not maliciously caused any damage during that entire period. I think it's safe to assume he's not going to cause any damage any time soon. He's not any more of a danger to society than your average script kiddie is.
Re:IP to hell (its getting scary) (Score:1)
Travesty of Justice - once again (Score:2)
It's outrageous that he was held without trial, for what? Three years??? Simply because the justice system is inadequate to handle computer crime. His trespass was too sophisticated to prosecute. So while the D.A. tried to study the issue, Mitnick was sitting in a cell, wasting years of time. Damn! He could have been making $100k for each of those years, honestly..
It is shameful that there probably wasn't a law against what he did, when he did it. But now, I'm sure there is. This is a constitutional matter at this point. Where is the speedy trial? What about HIS RIGHTS? What about the precedent this is setting?
Re:What do you think we should do? (Score:1)
It sums up a reasonably poor attitude toward a responsibility you have if you want to participate in U.S. society.
You may be interested to know, despite the flacidity of will your post implies, that jury duty is actually one of those times when you get to circumvent elections, and the frustration of poor judicial appointments, and even your frustrations with the laws, and make decisions about the laws themselves along with your fellow jurors.
I am not a lawyer, and I am not willing to get into a debate over the validity of it, but you might want to read about jury nullification [erowid.org].
Empowered with that bit of knowledge, and flush with desire to do something besides recriminate your fellow citizens as an excuse to do nothing yourself, and aware now that if one socio-political hack exists maybe there are more, maybe you can make a difference.
Not interested in making a difference? Too cynical at the advanced age of 17 to do much because you've been there and done that? Might as well stop bothering at all. If you're that cashed at that age, your future is going to suck.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:2)
Troll!
For someone so concerned about research and fact checking, you sure seem to make a lot of grand statements about the nature of politics and epistemology without any evidence to back you up. Who made you the sole arbiter of knowledge?
freekevin [freekevin.com] is a good starting point, though granted it is biased. You can also sift through the archives of HNN [hackernews.com], which has reliably documented the Mitnick case. They also have external links to various news organizations' stories on the issue. I speak based on having read those stories, read the website, and also read numerous newspaper articles over the years.
Well, there's an objective statement of fact. Nothing gets people going like an irrational fear that "they're next". I suppose you believe in slippery-slopes, too.
Yes. And my style of writing is persuasive, not informative. Keep that in mind while you critique.
OTOH, I've got to wonder where you've been. This sort of thing has been happening for decades (centuries, even).
I suppose that you're right, I mean, afterall.. if it's been going on for that long, it must be more OK than something that's only been going on for a few weeks... And as to where I've been - I've been in college, online, I've been through public schools, I've had an interesting life. And I also believe that other people are entitled to those same freedoms. That's where I've been.
--
"The side of justice." (Score:1)
Everyone is biased. Slashdot, ZDNet, CNN, BBC, MSNBC, your grandmother's sewing circle, Rush Limbaugh's radio show. Every source of information has some bias built in.
No side of any issue believs that they are the unjust, the villains, the legions of evil. That would make things too neat and tidy.
Re:trial (Score:2)
info [2600.com].
As far as I know, his lawsuit against the Pennsylvania prison system is still pending, but I haven't been able to find much information on it.
Re:Complete Bullshit! (Score:2)
It's pretty pathetic that it took the California prosecutors nearly five years to realize that he didn't break into their computers.
How about... (Score:1)
Clarification and background information (Score:2)
As for the federal charges, he was scheduled to be sentenced last week. However, the sentencing hearing was delayed again, despite the fact that neither Mitnick's lawyers nor the prosecution had asked for a delay, and the fact that the judge had previously promised that there would be no more delays in the hearing (it has already been delayed several times). It's now scheduled for August 9th.
As for the speedy trial, Mitnick did indeed waive his right to a speedy trial, but only because the court refused to let him spend more than a few hours a week in the legal library, refused to allow him to use a computer to review analyze computer disks that were to be used as evidence, and refused to pay his court-appointed lawyer for more than the standard number of hours, despite the fact that there were millions of pages of evidence to go through. Since the court purposely made his defence's evidence review so slow, he had no choice but to waive his right to a speedy trial, in the hopes that he could at least get a fair one. The trial was delayed even more by various unexplained administrative snafus such as the sentencing hearing delay mentioned above.
Throughout the case, the FBI, Secret Service, and corporations have been unreasonable and just plain stupid. The Secret Service initially argued against bail, saying that he could possibly interfere with the 1996 presidential election. They refused to let him have a walkman in the cell, fearing that his super-hacker skills could lead him to make a tape recorder out of it (despite the fact that it had no recording head). Sun Microsystems claimed [2600.com] that by viewing some of their proprietary source code, Mitnick caused them $80 million in damage. Now they give that source code away for free, so obviously their damage claims are frivolous. Sun isn't the only guilty corporation either. When the letters [2600.com] discussing these ludicrous damages were made public, the corporations and government became upset [2600.com] at being exposed.
All in all, Kevin Mitnick is a petty thief who has been set up as an example by an incompetent group of corporations and beaurocracies as some sort of super-hacker-terrorist who must be shut away.
Re:being connected as well as information is power (Score:1)
How about if the government broke into his systems?
I guess your not aware that converstions and data is monitored on a regular basis. Perhaps you should have said, "How about if the government broke into his Phone Conversations?." Well, how about it? The gov. does it all the time and without any recourse if they do it "illeagally". Who gets sent to jail when some cop or D.A. taps your conversations w/o a warrant? Answer: NO ONE
Who gets sent to jail for murdering innocent people (read "Waco, TX 'Koresh Compound'" - now that's not propaganda vocabulary, is it?) when the gov. does it? ANSWER: NO ONE
As for some of the other comments made by other posters like "He stole thousands from various companies, what about them?" [my paraphrase] Well, what about them? When are we going to hold them criminally responsible for stealing money from Millions of people (ever been over charged on your phone bill, cable, electric, etc.) Or what about the companies like G.E. that dump PCBs into rivers and lakes and kill thousands of children via cancer; who goes to jail for that? When TWA flight 800 blows up, who goes to jail for that; if I skid on a patch of ice and kill a kid in the street, I get charged with involuntary manslaughter. Step up CEO's and stock holders, it's time for someone to go to jail for all the crimes companies commit. Now, let's ask that question one more time, "What about the companies that were victims of Mitnick?" - they can have theirs when they are willing to hold the responsiblities that come with the protection of their freedom.
As far as spending 5 yrs. in jail w/o trial or bail hearing, what happend to "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY"? Obviously, you've already convicted him. Well, FUCK YOU, your not on any jury sitting for a U.S. V. Mitnik, are you? Who are any of us to judge whether he's guilty or not unless we are one of the 12 that sit in judgment of his acts? The only thing we can judge is the gov.'s actions to apprehend and attempt conviction of Mitnick. Personally, I judge them as bad! Everyone wants to see someone else hang untill it's their turn; One day, it will be.
-Sonic
Re:Shimmie's post [was: It's a police procedural] (Score:1)
I didn't say ANYTHING about the truth of the claims, or my own opinions, of the matters in question.
The only issue I'm addressing is the incredulity of the previous poster at the concept of making a movie of "Takedown". So I showed how it could be made into a blockbuster.
You may recall that "Takedown" was written by a team composed of Tsutomu and a partner. So of COURSE any movie made from it will portray the Shimomura interpretation of the events.
Pay attention!
Re:The Movie (Score:2)
The "vendetta theory" is backed up by the fact that the charges were dropped by the new prosecutor almost as soon as the previous one was removed from the case.
Re:It could happen to you... (Score:2)
Your a funny guy.. (Score:1)
Let me get this straight (Score:1)
--
Re:I'm totally sorry (Score:1)
Hey, leave OJ alone. He's as innocent of murder as George Bush is of smuggling cocaine!
Re:This Bites by butt (Score:1)
I sure did write Email and sign petition. If none of us care about this deal, he wouldn't be heard and he would be sentenced already.
If you mean "shame on me" then don't say "shame on you, shame on me" because I don't think everybody else deserve this.
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
It may be an unfortunate set of circumstances, but the issue was compounded for other reasons. First, he has SEVERAL felony convictions already. Secondly, he has been known to flee to avoid
prosecution in the past. This is a BIG No-no when you're trying to get bail in the future.
Federal trials tend to take a long time. While 4 and a half years might seem like an excessively long time, it really isn't. Its only long while you're rotting in jail. For this reason, it is in the defendant's best interest to TAKE the speedy trail because it doesn't give the prosection a lot of time to prepare and its a lot easier to have a competant defense attorney find gaping holes in their investigation, which give plenty of opportunities for reasonable doubt.
Since most of these "injustices" lead down to the issue of his defense, that leads to another issue. 2600 has been pleading for its reader's to donate to Kevin's legal defense fund. However, as of about a year ago, the most they were able to raise was $3000. While its better than nothing, it barely pays the daily salary for a good lawyer. It also happens to be less than 20 cents per reader of the magazine. Pretty pathetic when that's considered to be Kevin's major centre of support.
Instead, he has 2 court appointed annorney's (the 40,000 a year variety) who's typical defense is to plea bargain every case. However, if Kevin was able to fight it, and in the chance that he could have won the case, it would have set valuable precedent for any of the state trials he was facing. Since LA dropped the case against him (probably since they don't really see the point of it anymore), this is less of a concern. But being aquitted for the same crimes in one court makes it a LOT easier to win the same battle in another court and the case would have probably gotten dropped anyways.
Yes, in many cases he IS a political prisoner. And while slapping Free Kevin stickers on your bumper might bring awareness to an issue that most American's have probably never heard a word of, but in the long run, it really does nothing to help him. And if he wanted to go down as a martyr, the last thing in the world he should have done was plead guilty. Yes, I realize it might have meant more prison time, but until the trial, nobody really has a chance to embarrass the government with their shoddy excuse for evidence. Now that day will never come and they are free to carry out this sequence of events again in the future.
-Restil
Re:I'm totally sorry (Score:1)
Even murder, robbery, and jaywalking. Yea, thats a good idea.
Unfortunately justice is like this (Score:1)
The reason that he has been in jail for so long is that the justice system (including here in Canada) is basically a drama. Whoever presents a better argument, whether based on fact or fiction (or a combination of the two) will more than likely be able to sway a judge (especially one who is inexperienced with the nature of the crimes) and most definitely sway an uninformed jury. Unfortunately, we have come to a day in age where the facts no longer matter, whoever puts on the better show wins the trial. Look at the case of Guy Paul Morin for an example for this. In fact, that case (which I studied in my criminology class this past year in university) has some similarities. Guy Paul was considered odd by the general public, and therefore was considered to be the primary suspect in the case. He was convicted based on this, and had to spend nearly 10 years in jail before he was exonerated by DNA evidence. If the police would have conducted an investigation in the first place, none of that would have happened.
In this case, the feds were able to paint the picture that Mitnick is a dangerous man because he was able to con people over the phone and he did some cracking and copied some documents. By telling the judge that he did millions of dollars in damage, he made what my friends got two years probation for into a major event.
Don't get me wrong here. Mitnick is guilty, and deserves to be punished. However, I think that when it comes time to the sentencing, he should simply be set free, having served his time. If I recall correctly, in Canada, an accused person must be brought to trial within one year of being arrested. If not, the person is released, innocent or guilty. There have been cases where the person has gotten away with murder in Canada because of this law. It most certainly should have been applied in this case.
A person stated in an earlier reply that if you don't like the system of justice, then move. If you want to move, fine, then move. However, Canada and the U.S. have two of the finest justice systems in the world. In some places, you are shot on site if you are even SUSPECTED of committing a crime, never mind a "fair" trial and due process.
My two cents worth,
Joe (posted as an Anonymous Coward because my password wasn't e-mailed to me yet)
Re:Who Cares ? (Score:1)
For example, how would you like to have somebody break into your box, say, put some warez on it, and call the Fed, and then you would find yourself in jail for 10 years without a trial? I can't see why this wouldn't happen, in fact it has. If you don't care about Kevin's right, the next might be your own.
Re:"Grant meangingful access"? (Score:1)
I thought that the defense was supposed to have full access to all the evidence laid against them. It is the only way they can come up with a meaningful defense.
"But your honour, we had no knowledge of this bloody knife!"
"Over-ruled. If we let you know about the knife you could have killed someone else with it."
It could happen to you... (Score:1)
The book about the whole thing, "Takedown," is full of half-truths and blatant lies. In condensed form, straight from someone who was at the Free Kevin rallies, here is the basics.
-Kevin Mitnick was an ordinary guy who was curious.
-Kevin liked to explore things, albeit illegally.
-Kevin like to 'borrow' those thing to figure them out, or to save a few bucks.
-Kevin got caught.
-The FBI/NSA decided to make an example out of Kevin, and locked him up.
-Kevin was stripped of his rights of due process, and left to rot.
Which pretty much brings us up to now.
Kevin wasn't someone out to cause chaos; he was a curious guy, sorta like me, who just went about his learning a different way. I won't deny that some of the things he did were wrong, and I won't defend them. That's not the issue.
The issue is that Kevin Mitnick has been held in a federal prison, in solitary confinement frequently, for many years now, without trial, a bail set, or access to computers. The government has repeatedly stated that they will make sure that Kevin never touches another computer again as long as he lives.
What really scares me is that this could happen to anyone, and the government has proven it. Years of fighting the government, grass root efforts, rallies, campaigns, and more has had NO effect. Kevin's still locked up. What should happen if they decide to do that to you or me? Maybe we'll get the same support as Kevin, but what good will it do? The FBI/NSA have done more than make an example; they've shown that they are the law, and are above the laws set by our government. This is truly terrifying, as that basically means if they want to execute you for being a cracker or script kiddy, they could do it, and get away with it.
Noone is safe, and they've proven it. And there's nothing we can do about it, as they've proven. I don't know about you, but I'm very afraid of our government now. Maybe we'll all get lucky and the FBI and NSA will be dissolved. But I doubt that; with my luck, they're en route to arrest me and make sure I never see the light of day again.
-RISCy Business | Rabid System Administrator and BOFH
Mumia Abu Jamal (Score:1)
In fact, he has not had a fair trial. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, but the interest of justice is not served by presuming guilt.
Furthermore, and more significant to some people, is that even if he was given a fair trial, his conviction was for murder in the SECOND degree. That is to say, this is a crime for which the penalty is never execution in Pennsylvania -- UNLESS the victim happens to have been a police officer.
I guess some animals are more equal than others, after all.
Fair enough. (Score:1)
Molly Ivins wrote a great column about Robison, but it's not on the Fort Worth Startlegram's Web site anymore...
She tells that Robison's sister also has schizophrenia, and her parents were able to get her into a mental hospital only after telling Larry's story "at loud decibels."
J.
Re:I'm totally sorry (Score:1)
george w. used it...
clinton was the one smuggling [esotericworldnews.com] it...
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
freekevin is a good starting point, though granted it is biased. You can also sift through the archives of HNN, which has reliably documented the Mitnick case. They also have external links to various news organizations' stories on the issue. I speak based on having read those stories, read the website, and also read numerous newspaper articles over the years.
Yeah, yeah. I was arguing against the (apparent) absurbity of your complaining about him making arbitrary statements about reality, while you yourself do it quite a bit. (Of course, so do I; I just attach a disclaimer that I'm only arguing from *my* Truth.)
I suppose that you're right, I mean, afterall.. if it's been going on for that long, it must be more OK than something that's only been going on for a few weeks... And as to where I've been - I've been in college, online, I've been through public schools, I've had an interesting life. And I also believe that other people are entitled to those same freedoms. That's where I've been.
*sigh* Just once I'd like to see someone answer that argument without my having to explain it...
I wasn't implying that Kevin should be left to rot because he's just one of many[1]. My point was more that the efforts should be redirected at the larger problem. Instead of freeing Kevin, how about we free *all* political prisoners, him included. Free Kevin can wait if the time is used to Free Everybody. (I should add that I don't think Kevin deserves to be the central case in a movement to the unjustly imprisoned. He's still a script kiddie, AKAIC.)
1 I actually couldn't care less if Kevin rots in prison. In my book he's a career criminal, and not a very bright one at that, and derserves to be punished. But, in principle, I disagree with his *current* incarceration, which does seem a tad unjust.
Molly Ivans (Score:1)
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:1)
Wait.. I thought the 4 years was because of Mitnick's ignorance when deciding "No, I don't want a speedy trial."
Re:Social Engineering (Score:1)
No..but if you pose as the phone repair man to get my phone number it most certainly is.
Now, the other side of the coin, ie. what kind of stupid idiot let's themselves be fooled by such a ruse, is an entirely different discussion.
Re:Complete Bullshit! (Score:1)
Re:This Bites by butt (Score:1)
I know that sounds extreme, and I don't believe it myself; but nor do I find the logic in your argument, either -- that "he should be punished badly, but hey, not THAT badly !!"
Not that I speak from experience, but I SUSPECT that many/most criminals pursue SOME degree of risk analysis, considering what might happen if he/she gets caught. I'm not convinced Mitnick DIDN'T consider the possibility that he'd become a poster child -- to some degree, is this NOT what he was hoping for ??
And now, ask again, did he or did he deserve all of this? Ask Kevin this question when/if he gets his computer back .... I SUSPECT he won't care, and he'll go on the internet ...
Thanks, Kevin, for teaching us about the inclination for a corrupt soul of our government: Please learn your lesson next time ....
Re:Complete Bullshit! (Score:1)
You people have it soft... (Score:1)
>Canada and the U.S. have two of the finest justice systems in the world. In some places, you are shot on site if you are even SUSPECTED >of committing a crime, never mind a "fair" trial and due process.
Indeed. You Americans complain too much. Try living over here, where as often as not, you'll end up "shot while attempting to escape". A few dozen times, with automatic weapons. Even if you were only picked up for jaywalking. (if you had the bad fortune to share a paddy-wagon with someone the cops didn't like...). And that was way back when the death penalty was still illegal over here.
And that's if you're lucky. If you're not, you get to experience police interrogation. Expect to kiss your testicles goodbye. Literally.
Hmm. I wonder if Mitnick ever did anything here? We do have an extradition treaty with the US.
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:2)
However, the govt. has really abused their powers here, pretty much forcing him to give up his rights, and that I don't care for at all. That the govt. is also willing to punish people by banning them from using electronic equipment for long streches of time is also unreasonable in this day and age.
Re:You people have it soft... (Score:1)
Re:You people have it soft... (Score:2)
Re:You people have it soft... (Score:1)
Philippines - but this should apply to any third world country. Specially those with governments supported by your CIA/State Department...
Re:Who Cares ? (Score:1)
That's not going to happen.
That sort of evidence *does* nail Mitnick to the wall, however; it's not like the case against him is bogus. He can have his lawyers try to delay as much as he wants, but tough.
crackers (Score:1)
I read the previously posted definitions (but can't quite remember them), but, my thing is:
I always had this impression that "cracker" encompassed "hacker".. to me, it makes sense that it would. "Cracker" being one who hacked and did illegal junk... and/or got caught for it (well, not that.. getting caught isn't important).
Anyway, that's my thought-of-the-day.
Social Engineering (Score:1)
[doesn't hold breath]
Media should take some blame too (Score:1)
Re:You people have it soft... (Score:1)
>DEAD BY TRIGGER HAPPY, RACIST COPS!!! Oh, I'm sorry. Was I yelling? Please forgive me.
Our cops are just trigger-happy, but not racist. (They'll happily shoot up Peace Corps volunteers, too...)
Is that better?
> I think if your broke, it don't matter where you are. You're gonna get fucked.
> Rich Phillipinos(sp?)have it every bit as good as rich Americans. Or no??
Well, the richest Filipinos ARE Americans. They emigrate to the US. They lovingly refer to their native country as "that hellhole".
A daughter of a two-star general who went to my university got raped and killed some time ago. Among the richest people you can find in my hometown. (I went to grade school with her boyfriend, who was also tortured and killed in the same incident). Made the papers, 'cause they were rich, but if they were merely middle class, it would have gone unnoticed. (as my next-door neighbor did.)
Rich people here usually live in exclusive, heavily guarded walled subdivisions, under 24-hour guard. Kidnapping for ransom is a growing industry. (We rank behind Columbia as the kidnap capital of the world).
Before you protest "this is because of criminals, not cops" take note that most kidnap-for-ransom or other gangs are made up of cops (not ex-cops, they're still on active duty. Where do you think they get automatic weapons and grenade launchers?).
Me, I'm not that rich. (free university account - not so free, since I work my ass off to keep it). I take my chances. I keep low, I don't talk back to cops. There's also the regular bribes to keep up.
Believe me, lots of people here would sell their firstborn (some actually have) to move to NY....
And yes, I've lived in the USA. I know the difference.
Okay. This is getting amazingly off-topic.
About time (Score:1)
Oh well guess I'll have to change the FREE KEVIN buttons on my site to say LOCK UP KEVIN since srcipt kiddies no longer have anything to bitch about...
P.S. to the moron above who posted Mitnick is an asshole or idiot... I think your just a jealous little dipshit of someone who had and probably has more knowledge/skills than you.
Ya.. who needs a trial anyways... (Score:1)
Hell, if they say you're guilty then you must be. I'm not quite sure why the even
bothered with keeping him in jail for 4 years without a trial when it has been stated
that he was guilty. They shoulda just sent him along his way to a medium security
prison. Wow, you are a ground breaker...!!!! with your savvy modern thinking, you
could solve all of the judicial system's congestion problems. Hat's off to you sir.
}
You've missed a huge point in this whole process. People are guaranteed a right to a
speedy trial. I don't care if people have been in jail longer without a trial. It doesn't
discount anything! It's sad, I agree. The fact remains that nobody should be able to
say you are guilty of a crime and then wait 4 years (much less a few months) to
decide your guilt based on actual facts.
Not everyone is saying that "Kevin Mitnick is the most scandalous case of the all
American justice". They are only saying that it was wrong. I have to say I agree.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
Yeah What he said.... (Score:1)
Any one remeber.... (Score:1)
Did you know most ppl outside of us techies don't even remeber him. Think on that one for abit.
He is a fool. (Score:1)
Wrong place at the wrong time? Sure.
He is a fool who deserves what he got / going to get. The DA droped the charges out of frustration, not out of evidence.
This reminds me of that Mumi Abodnaskdlnasdsad guy who killed a cop, right out in the open. Then, somehow the story got turned around so that people thought he was on death row for a crime he didn't commit. But he DID commit it... plain and simple.
Re:My definitions: (Score:1)
I just think it would be simpler if "Cracker" encompassed both of your definitions. Then "hacker" could remain with the meaning that is quite popular among many techies(i.e someone who does cool computer related things).
What do you think we should do? (Score:1)
And rember a jury is composed of people who are too stupid to get out of Jury Duty. I think that about sums it up.
What do you think we should do? (Score:1)
And rember a jury is composed of people who are too stupid to get out of Jury Duty. I think that about sums it up. If you have a bright Idea of how we can change the system that actaully will make a diffrence please enlighten us all.
The Movie (Score:2)
As far as the other stuff is concerned, it is interesting that the LA guys claim that the prosecutor was out to get Mitnick. It made it sound like it was a kind of vendetta, though I'm not overly clear what it was a vendetta over.
Mitnick is clearly very talented and very intelligent. I can easily see him ending up doing computer security work for a major company. If, as others have claimed, he's over the hill, let him do QA work! Someone needs to, given the crud that commercial companies produce.
Haven't you been watching the news lately? (Score:1)
Unless, while at the same time you were stealing those secrets, your cohorts in China were using big bucks to bribe the most corrupt president and Dept. of Justice in U.S. history. In that case, maybe you'll lose your job, but you'll be well taken care of, and definitely don't have to worry about jail time. Just ask Wen Ho Lee, Charlie Trie, John Huang, or Johnnie Chung.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Oh yeah, I just remembered that the U.S. media seems to be pretty unwilling to report on this story...
Free Larry Robison (Score:1)
This guy went nuts after the state of Texas refused to give him the treatment he needed for his schizophrenia, killed five people, and is scheduled to die on August 17.
At least Mitnick gets to live as a neo-Luddite.
J.
Re:dumb fucking asshole (was Re:trial) (Score:1)
Re:Script kiddie, no. (Score:2)
And since when were you the sole arbiter of truth? The truth is only strained from the facts by careful research, fact checking and fact finding, and sometimes alittle luck.
He has sat in jail for four years. That is a fact. It is also a fact that felony charges statistically take far less time than this. Further, if you familiarized yourself with the case, you'd realize that he fell through the cracks of the administrative process - and not entirely by accident. That is why it has taken so long for the case to be heard. Since you show little inclination to familiarize yourself with the case, I won't bore you on details.
Yes, in many cases he IS a political prisoner. And while slapping Free Kevin stickers on your bumper might bring awareness to an issue that most American's have probably never heard a word of, but in the long run, it really does nothing to help him.
First, there are not many cases; There is one case. Secondly, it is only by raising public awareness and education that will ever cause any change to occur. There are no visible signs that the ozone is being destroyed, yet we know this is so because people have told us. Would you know about Linux if somebody had not told you about it? Would you know about the national debt if somebody hadn't told you? It is simply incredible how much of your knowledge of the world comes from media, and by word of mouth. That is why the bumper stickers, the press, the articles, the protests, will do something. People need to be made aware of why this happened. It must be prevented from happening again. Who will America's next political prisoner be? Who's rights will be sacrificed next? Mine? Yours?
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Re:Your a fool (Score:2)
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Re:It could happen to you... (Score:2)
This Bites by butt (Score:2)
What he did was wrong and he did deserve going to jail.....
But.... he did not deserve anything that he got, he did not deserve the government stomping on his civil rights at every, EVERY turn. It saddens me that my country gladly violated every one of his rights. The judges took great enjoyment in blocking justice,and corrupting our system.. I saw nothing but complete corruption in the entire judicial/FBI/NSA/whatever system from this and yet the american public and representatives just sit by saying "oh well, he was a baddie!"
but it is our fault anyways... every one of you out there caused this. did you write several letters to your congressman,senator,president, local law, state law, and others? did you make ONE phone call or donate even ONE dollar to mitnick's defense fund? did you stand up and let others know that even though he is a criminal the government is abusing this person? did you do everything in your power to help? I'll be a big fat NO... americans are very lazy (I know this.. I am one) we sit on our couches, watching tv, horrified with the wars of the world. We sit in front of our computers and "speak out" agains tyranny and opression, and do nothing but "speak out"..
this country is becoming a horrible place.. and we are to blame... 100% to blame...
Shame on you, and shame on me....